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BlackYeti

A proposal on how to extend low-mid tier cruiser survivability

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Having tried German, US, USSR and IJN cruiser lines I have come to a conclusion that IJN is the most enjoyable line to play, mostly because of the armored decks the t5-t7 have. On the other cruisers a BB shell will autopenetrate you anywhere apart from belt armor. USSR cruisers have soft decks but at least they have 50mm of citadel deck armor which helps to prevent citadels when angled but you still eat full penetrations. On german t5-6 CLs the citadel deck is 20mm meaning every BB shell that touches the citadel, autopenetrates.

 

My proposal:

Give all cruisers same tier BB-class armor amidships on the sides and deck (or at least deck only), t4-5 19mm, t6-7 25mm, t8+ 32mm while retaining weak (overmatchable) bow/stern.

 

This way you will still get deleted if you derp broadside but become a much harder target when angled. Maybe it will turn cruisers into unstoppable flamethrowers of doom, maybe not but I think it's at least an idea worth some testing seeing the sorry state the low tier cruiser gameplay is in?

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Welcome to World of Battleships. But nah seriously cruisers are supposed to be squishy against BBs. Try not to be the target and you'll be fine, if you are smoke up or run away.

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Yeah unfortunately Caughtintherain is quite right, it is the BB overpopulation that needs to be addressed... It might be best simply to limit BB numbers to a maximum of 3 per team and be done with it. That should take care of it nicely.:cap_hmm:

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15 minutes ago, Caughtintherain said:

Welcome to World of Battleships. But nah seriously cruisers are supposed to be squishy against BBs. Try not to be the target and you'll be fine, if you are smoke up or run away.

I (sort of) know how to make cruisers work, the point is how to make them less punishing for the average player. Cruisers should also be rewarded for angling properly. Right now only a few benefit from this, Furutaka, Aoba, Myoko, Zao, Moskva these can be somewhat tanky in the open and are not restricted to hugging landmasses or smokes to survive.

Next step-BB AP vs Destroyers= automatic overpen

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5 minutes ago, RAHJAILARI said:

Yeah unfortunately Caughtintherain is quite right, it is the BB overpopulation that needs to be addressed... It might be best simply to limit BB numbers to a maximum of 3 per teamand be done with it. That should take care of it nicely.:cap_hmm:

 

Or just git gud.

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2 minutes ago, Caughtintherain said:

Or just git gud.

:cap_wander_2:NAAH! :cap_hmm: That'll never work... :Smile-_tongue: Hhehehe!

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17 minutes ago, BlackYeti said:

I (sort of) know how to make cruisers work, the point is how to make them less punishing for the average player. Cruisers should also be rewarded for angling properly. Right now only a few benefit from this, Furutaka, Aoba, Myoko, Zao, Moskva these can be somewhat tanky in the open and are not restricted to hugging landmasses or smokes to survive.

Next step-BB AP vs Destroyers= automatic overpen

 

You don't have to hug landmasses or stay in smoke, stick with a battle group and focus fire, take them down before they kill you. Friendly DDs should be spamming torps so they can't get in a firing position, they should have spotted the BB before you so they're not firing at you because people tend to stick with their first target. If you want to play a light BB then play one of the cruisers you mentioned. Your job as a cruiser is to stay safe, put down DDs so your BBs can fire without having to watch for torps, and on occasion fire at BBs as part of a group when you're not in danger and there are no more important roles to do.

 

I've been in games as one of a pair of cruisers, there was one recently where I was a solo cruiser. In games like that I barely fire at BBs and rarely take any incoming fire because that's not my job as a cruiser. I'm there to kill enemy DDs so our BBs can angle properly so they can kill enemy BBs. Remember that different ship classes have different strengths and weaknesses, cruisers are not there to fight BBs unless there's nothing else to do and it's safe.

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54 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

 

Well, this is actually one of your better cruiser by stats, and my God, you are really wrecking in her with your 44% wr.  So yea, lets not even talk about your other cruisers and their stats, but lets just call this another one of your cr*p posts.

 

Kirov   Kirov 5 U.S.S.R.   36   44.44%    2 174     49 141 1.53   1.14

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, Caughtintherain said:

But nah seriously cruisers are supposed to be squishy against BBs. Try not to be the target and you'll be fine, if you are smoke up or run away.

Why? WG went away from the rock, paper, scissor deal, so why should they be that squishy agaisnt BBs? DDs no longer counter BBs. CVs no longer counter BBs. The only thing that counters BBs is other BBs. 

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1 minute ago, MortenTardo said:

Why? WG went away from the rock, paper, scissor deal, so why should they be that squishy agaisnt BBs? DDs no longer counter BBs. CVs no longer counter BBs. The only thing that counters BBs is other BBs. 

 

>implying World of Battleships isn't still in pre-alpha

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Wouldn’t want that - would just make them mini BBs and would you then need to make them slower as carrying more armour? I really enjoy cruiser play though admittedly mainly Fiji and Atlanta, both of which suffer at the hand of battleships but that is half the fun! I don’t like playing battleships as they are usually too slow or not very nimble.

 

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7 minutes ago, triumphgt6 said:

Wouldn’t want that - would just make them mini BBs and would you then need to make them slower as carrying more armour? I really enjoy cruiser play though admittedly mainly Fiji and Atlanta, both of which suffer at the hand of battleships but that is half the fun! I don’t like playing battleships as they are usually too slow or not very nimble.

 

 

Have you played high tier? BBs have almost the same top speed as cruisers. Only difference is that they have more armor, heal, more HP harder hitting accurate guns and in some cases better consealment than cruisers. Not good to have a class that is stronger than everything and fill almost half the teams. 

 

If you wanna do good in a cruiser you have to be smart, outplay enemy ships and use islands alot. If you wanna do good in a BB, just point and click. RNG does the rest for you. Maybe you delete a cruiser or DD, maybe not. 

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Seriously though...why has WG refused to limit BBs to 4 per side? Does anyone know an actual answer to this? (assuming it even exists).

Who cares about BB overpopulation in the waiting queue if they can't get overpopulated in the actual match.

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5 minutes ago, domen3 said:

Seriously though...why has WG refused to limit BBs to 4 per side? Does anyone know an actual answer to this? (assuming it even exists).

Who cares about BB overpopulation in the waiting queue if they can't get overpopulated in the actual match.

 

Because Mr BB player has promised to buy whatever premium BB comes out next, no questions asked, so long as there are plenty of spaces for him to play it in game. I think that's about it in a nutshell.

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1 hour ago, MortenTardo said:

 

Have you played high tier? BBs have almost the same top speed as cruisers. Only difference is that they have more armor, heal, more HP harder hitting accurate guns and in some cases better consealment than cruisers. Not good to have a class that is stronger than everything and fill almost half the teams. 

 

If you wanna do good in a cruiser you have to be smart, outplay enemy ships and use islands alot. If you wanna do good in a BB, just point and click. RNG does the rest for you. Maybe you delete a cruiser or DD, maybe not. 

Agree - but doesn’t the extra thought make the game more engaging? I do have  a Conqueror but have not played her yet as not sure it is my cup of tea. However Minotaur is indeed very squishy- Edinburgh is the last cruiser that I like playing so your point is valid. But T10 is much more static so much of the time that I have little interest in experiencing much more of it.

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2 hours ago, cro_pwr said:

 

Well, this is actually one of your better cruiser by stats, and my God, you are really wrecking in her with your 44% wr.  So yea, lets not even talk about your other cruisers and their stats, but lets just call this another one of your cr*p posts.

 

Kirov   Kirov 5 U.S.S.R.   36   44.44%    2 174     49 141 1.53   1.14

 

 

 

You do not seem to know much about statistics and the Kirov.

Secondly, your average solo cruiser WR is just 0,44%-points higher than mine. Not a big enough margin to talk crap.

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Considering how battleships are now treading on the toes of cruisers with the addition of superpowered HE, hydro and radar, the best way to bring cruisers back would be to get them to tread on the toes of battleships to reclaim lost ground. Bring in the CBs with their near-BB armour (and sometimes BB-grade guns) and bring in monitors under the cruiser classification which have BB guns on a small and accurate ship.

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7 hours ago, Caughtintherain said:

Welcome to World of Battleships. But nah seriously cruisers are supposed to be squishy against BBs. Try not to be the target and you'll be fine, if you are smoke up or run away.

 

Naaahhh.

 

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7 hours ago, BlackYeti said:

I (sort of) know how to make cruisers work, the point is how to make them less punishing for the average player. Cruisers should also be rewarded for angling properly. Right now only a few benefit from this, Furutaka, Aoba, Myoko, Zao, Moskva these can be somewhat tanky in the open and are not restricted to hugging landmasses or smokes to survive.

Next step-BB AP vs Destroyers= automatic overpen

 

you forgot at least one, Budyonni.

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2 hours ago, Butterdoll said:

 

you forgot at least one, Budyonni.

I included her in the general USSR cruiser part where I talked about the 50mm citadel roof. Budyonny is quite capable of bouncing shells on the armored belt and the citadel is well protected when angled but will still take autopenetrations everywhere else because her deck is only 13mm. Her tanking potential is nowhere near that of Aoba's. I only highlighted the cruisers whose armored decks exceed the common overmatch thresholds.

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Fire discipline goes a long way to not exploding...

 

Take Priority Targeting for ALL cruisers. 

 

If you see people are targeting you THEN STOP FIRING, LOOK AT THE ENEMIES YOU CAN SEE. SEE THE BIG NASTY BBs THAT ARE AIMING AT YOU, USE RUDDER, WAIT TO SLIP INTO CONCEALMENT, then relax....

 

Once in stealth you review the situation and pick your targets accordingly. 

 

Of course if a DD spots you from stealth then you need to do something a bit more drastic but it's part of the game.

 

Upping parts of a ships armour will not save you, look at KGV and other BBs that have gaps in their armour. RNG will mean that some shells will slip through and obliterate you even in the perfect world. Most cruisers have armour as a last resort and you shouldn't be trusting it to save you when BB AP comes knocking. 

 

 

 

 

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21 minutes ago, Negativvv said:

If you see people are targeting you THEN STOP FIRING

 

You're detected in a cruiser and people aren't targeting you, are we playing the same game?

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1 minute ago, Capra76 said:

 

You're detected in a cruiser and people aren't targeting you, are we playing the same game?

 

Well obviously you don't fire first at the start of a battle as that's asking for a team's worth of people to focus you!

 

Just need to be patient I guess, flanking a little so BBs guns are turned, watching BBs and even waiting for them to fire as you'll get 30s of free shooting time. That's a bit hard to do in the BB heavy meta granted but there are windows where the BB horde won't always focus fire a cruiser. 

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Just take IFA, stay ready to evade vs any target(s) you can see, and if the alarm goes off for any reason (even targets you cant see will trigger it) start to maneuver very hard.  Works fine for me.

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