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Rebalance CVs

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Just now, hgbn_dk said:

Is it???? I'm not convinced

 

But his argument was so eloquent and in depth a well trained donkey could follow its logic, his retort was so philosophically axiomatic that I have to question whether you are capable of higher thought when I see you disagree.

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1 minute ago, Caughtintherain said:

 

But his argument was so eloquent and in depth a well trained donkey could follow its logic, his retort was so philosophically axiomatic that I have to question whether you are capable of higher thought when I see you disagree.

 

"What is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence".

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11 minutes ago, eliastion said:

You want effective air superiority to be something that just lays on the floor and needs to be picked up (and can be picked up by both sides simultaneously)

 

You can think, that removing fighers is not a good idea, granted. But your point is - like you put it - ridicolous. Right now, the better player WILL pick up this air superiority, leaving the other team at total disadvantage. Giving both teams this is nothing else but - leveling the playing fields. 

 

I have to agree on one thing further: I never did understood why you want to bring a Figher-setup in as CV. You goal is to: eliminate the other CV. which wouldnt be in that round if you wouldnt play. So you are useless. It would be like a DD with Anti-DD-torpedos only.

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3 minutes ago, AgarwaenME said:

"What is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence".

 

you are right, for once.

-->

15 minutes ago, AgarwaenME said:

Utter bollocks.

 

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Just now, ForlornSailor said:

 

you are right, for once.

-->

 

 

And as usual you fail to grasp the actual point.

 

Now try for once to stick on topic.

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5 minutes ago, ForlornSailor said:

 

You can think, that removing fighers is not a good idea, granted. But your point is - like you put it - ridicolous. Right now, the better player WILL pick up this air superiority, leaving the other team at total disadvantage. Giving both teams this is nothing else but - leveling the playing fields. 

 

I have to agree on one thing further: I never did understood why you want to bring a Figher-setup in as CV. You goal is to: eliminate the other CV. which wouldnt be in that round if you wouldnt play. So you are useless. It would be like a DD with Anti-DD-torpedos only.

 

AS sucks hard but as I mentioned before, it's the only viable build for USN when the opposition is good.

 

Take Ranger for instance, you are either 1/1/1 where you'll essentially lose the map, Strike where your planes will be farmed or AS when you are 2 Fighters which can protect your team and offer some scouting with 2 DB that can stack up on ships if RNG wills it. 

 

But meh if you're serious about CVs you go IJN and use decks which offer you a bit of everything...

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2 minutes ago, Negativvv said:

Take Ranger for instance, you are either 1/1/1 where you'll essentially lose the map, Strike where your planes will be farmed or AS when you are 2 Fighters which can protect your team and offer some scouting with 2 DB that can stack up on ships if RNG wills it. 

 

Yep, like ive said before - the balancing between US and IJN/premiums is just beyond stupid as of this moment. Stats / WR of the CVs show this aswell. If anything, im surprised US CVs hold up that well, Id expect them to be on the losing side even more.

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13 minutes ago, eliastion said:

Removing fighters is ridiculous, plain and simple. Air superiority means the ability to permaspot DDs and their torps as well as - to lesser extent (or maybe to lesser effect) - other ships. Removing fighters from the game essentially means that CV's ability to create such a tremendous change in the gameplay (one that neuters DDs and removes enemy's abilty to surprise allies) nobody needs to be won. Currently CVs are so influential in no small part because they're the ultimate scouts, but they have to fight for it - strike planes that scout can be chased away by enemy fighters, scouting fighters are also in danger AND by scouting they are visible, clearly showing where the CV can intervene to intercept a strike and where it's not possible.

You want to throw it all down the drain, OP. You want effective air superiority to be something that just lays on the floor and needs to be picked up (and can be picked up by both sides simultaneously) leading to a situation where the WG's bad dreams about CV presence in CB comes true: everything is spotted. DDs can't run and can't hide. Nobody can use an island to break the line of sight unless the opposing CV just doesn't care about scouting at all...

No. Sorry. While striking power could probably be balanced against strike power, reconnaissance shouldn't be given for free. If anything, I'd advise re-evaluation of all US strike decks so that there is no such thing as a CV going to battle with no fighters.

 

Basicly what u are describing is whats happening right now a lot of time by Highskilled CV players. They dont need to fight for it, they just take it. Whats easier than to strafe click the enemy CV to dust? That he doesnt let u because he is so good? Only equal skill players tend to really fight for air superiority, with the high skill ceiling, how often does that actually happen? I kinda remember one match with Independence where i felt the enemy CV (basicly there were 4, but the other 2 werent even decent) and my skill were on par. First strafe he killed me (not sure if luck or whatever, we both strafed same time i died, he lost nothing), i came back killed him twice, in the end we won, but basicly that was like the only time that it wasnt like, oh enemy Fighter is chasing me, lets kill it pewpewpew done. Or the other way round enemy CV was above my skill level and handed it to me (2 fighter IJN CV f.e.)

 

As said above, in a match without Fighters only the good player will know when to leave his strikeforce to "permaspot" DDs. Ive seen matches with only strike Setups, they dont spot for the team, ever. What does happen now when CV 1 has air superiority (can be because he killed the enemy CV, or killed his planes, or CV is afk, or CV doesnt care)? A) he ignores that he is spotted and dies or B) he tries to retreat to Cruiser AA. Once again teamwork is the key. Ive been seeing a lot about CVs can be locked down by basic Teamwork, yet making it part of this arguement it doesnt work any longer :cap_hmm:Only difference between my story and the truth is, that the fighters dont have anything better to o when enemy CV is Shut down/Dead/AFK so he can just leave them over the DD, while the removal of fighters the CV would need to lower his strike power, while the other CV actually might be use his.

 

 

1 hour ago, El2aZeR said:

I can see the benefits but it would degenerate CV play into a pure damage race, which is stupid in its own way.

 

I think they already do that because they are rating highest in damage on so many tiers. The only difference is, can both do it or only one, and when can i do that?

1 hour ago, El2aZeR said:

What we do need are dedicated tutorials that teach new players what their ship can actually do and what should be avoided (applies to all ship classes). For CVs this includes teaching what targets they should pick, positioning, how to manual drop and perhaps most importantly how and when to strafe as well as how to recognize the enemy is lining up for a strafe and subsequently how to dodge them.

 

No chance that u can learn that by waching a Tutorial. I think i played ~20 Battles with Langley + some battles with Bogue before they took away Manual Drop, and i kinda had it going good at that time. Then they Changed that. I didnt bother to play CVs for some time, tried it again with Bogue, was total BS. Was grinding through it in Coop, got Independence, my manual drops where totaly screwed for several matches. I had to learn it all over thx to WG.

Btw that still means the better player will get the upper hand depending on which Fighters die first. If u miss the strafe, the enemy CV can just strafe u back.

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Back when CV truces were still a thing, we got a taste of what removing fighters would be like... so I would say no, unless they also did a substantial revamp of the strike power of carriers (ie. nerfed it heavily).

 

Problematically though, it still wouldn't stop good carriers from more or less shutting down destroyers with little or no counterplay available. Destroyers have no point when the only safe spot is the fleet - if you need to stay within a small, limited area anyway you might as well play a cruiser or a battleship.

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The key issue with CV is their alpha strike potential. Let's take T10 for example...Unless you're a DM/Mino and a Haku wants you dead...THERE IS NOTHING YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT. That to be is incredibly broken and needs some sort of fixing. Perhaps AA should have the ability to stagger planes or something. Don't just laugh at my AA and one shot me because you can drop me from 5M away.

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28 minutes ago, P2Win said:

The key issue with CV is their alpha strike potential. Let's take T10 for example...Unless you're a DM/Mino and a Haku wants you dead...THERE IS NOTHING YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT.

 

There's plenty of things you can do about it, the whole point of teamwork is that you don't need to be in the DM/Mino yourself, you simply have to be near one. If there isn't an AA monster like one of those two available, then group up into 3-4 ships in a formation and enjoy the same benefits. The moment you sail away from your team you are playing right into the enemy carrier's hands.

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8 hours ago, hgbn_dk said:

Would be so much easier just to remove CV's from the game all together... CV gameplay differs so much from the rest of the ship classes that they deserve their own game IMHO

Yes, sure lets remove them, and lets remove the battleships also because they are hard to balance as well besides wargaming allows only 1 in clan battles so it wouldn't change much if they are removed completely. Destroyers on the other hand are also somewhat problematic because there is always someone that is not happy when in random battles the teams have different numbers of destroyers, so it will be easier to remove them as well. Now cruisers are all good but there are so many of them why should we bother thinking how to make every single one somewhat different but also equally capable, soo lets just leave 1 cruiser and remove all the rest this way all players will have equal chance against the opponent, and lets remove the secondary battery because it's random and breaks the balance, the consumables, AA, and upgrades are also unnecessary and some maps aren't symmetrical which is again hard to balance let's remove all the maps and leave just Ocean.

 

And there you go I made the perfectly balanced WoWs following you logic, yeee what is my prize ?

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53 minutes ago, P2Win said:

The key issue with CV is their alpha strike potential. Let's take T10 for example...Unless you're a DM/Mino and a Haku wants you dead...THERE IS NOTHING YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT. That to be is incredibly broken and needs some sort of fixing. Perhaps AA should have the ability to stagger planes or something. Don't just laugh at my AA and one shot me because you can drop me from 5M away.

 

People like you seem to think that Haku is some unstoppable monster when in fact its not exactly that hard to deal with them. IJN torp squads only have 4 planes per squad. That's 12 planes in total to deal with. If anything you should be more worried about 3 USN DB squads stack dropping their bombs on you because they have more health overall with 21 planes. If those Haku TBs come at you individually or try and do a cross drop, any same tier CA or BB should be able to focus fire on the individual squads and take out most of them and minimize the damage. You don't even have to shoot down the whole squad, after shooting down 2/3 planes in one squad pick the next to focus fire on and you'll be minimizing the damage you receive already. If they come stacked together do the same thing and in addition turn in the direction they're approaching and you'll avoid quite abit of damage. How is it actually that difficult if you try?

 

Saw one of the forum's anti-cv guy in a Lion yesterday on Trap. Guy parked his BB in front of A and stopped there. When our CV torped him he raged at the CV. But how is it the CV's fault when he himself decided to stop there? Why stop knowing that this was a CV game and stopping would just make him an easy and better target. Sometimes you guys should make an effort learning how to avoid attacks from CV before complaining and you'll realize CV's aren't really that invincible.

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1 hour ago, RamirezKurita said:

 

There's plenty of things you can do about it, the whole point of teamwork is that you don't need to be in the DM/Mino yourself, you simply have to be near one. If there isn't an AA monster like one of those two available, then group up into 3-4 ships in a formation and enjoy the same benefits. The moment you sail away from your team you are playing right into the enemy carrier's hands.

 

Good luck finding "teamwork" in randoms. Perhaps someday you'll learn this fantasy doesn't exist.

 

19 minutes ago, pra3y said:

 

People like you seem to think that Haku is some unstoppable monster when in fact its not exactly that hard to deal with them. IJN torp squads only have 4 planes per squad. That's 12 planes in total to deal with. If anything you should be more worried about 3 USN DB squads stack dropping their bombs on you because they have more health overall with 21 planes. If those Haku TBs come at you individually or try and do a cross drop, any same tier CA or BB should be able to focus fire on the individual squads and take out most of them and minimize the damage. You don't even have to shoot down the whole squad, after shooting down 2/3 planes in one squad pick the next to focus fire on and you'll be minimizing the damage you receive already. If they come stacked together do the same thing and in addition turn in the direction they're approaching and you'll avoid quite abit of damage. How is it actually that difficult if you try?

 

Saw one of the forum's anti-cv guy in a Lion yesterday on Trap. Guy parked his BB in front of A and stopped there. When our CV torped him he raged at the CV. But how is it the CV's fault when he himself decided to stop there? Why stop knowing that this was a CV game and stopping would just make him an easy and better target. Sometimes you guys should make an effort learning how to avoid attacks from CV before complaining and you'll realize CV's aren't really that invincible.

 

There is a reason the HAKU has 10k more average damage than Midway, But what are stats right? I am fully aware how to avoid torpedoes. It becomes rocket science when they send all their squad at you, which most of the smart ones do, because they are fully aware they can get rid of a target in 1 strike, give and take they lose a few planes here and there.

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12 minutes ago, P2Win said:

 

Good luck finding "teamwork" in randoms. Perhaps someday you'll learn this fantasy doesn't exist.

 

 

There is a reason the HAKU has 10k more average damage than Midway, But what are stats right? I am fully aware how to avoid torpedoes. It becomes rocket science when they send all their squad at you, which most of the smart ones do, because they are fully aware they can get rid of a target in 1 strike, give and take they lose a few planes here and there.

Takes long enough to rearm planes and in a meta where every non ijn high tier bb has so many immunities cv striking power is a good thing. 

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My problem ingame aren't the CV's perse. But the players. The match is usually already set in the first 2 minutes. I'll see a CV player is awful or not. Usually it's the former group in my team. Refusing to scout: making a run to the enemy lines to spot their positions is priceless. No not saying fly over them and have your planes shred: just locate. No what they do is grouping the planes togehter and make a very nice long sightseeing tour across the borders. Getting sniped in the process and it's so fun to see your planes hanging in the map corner until they crash. Or they are only eager to inflict dmg. Making auto drops on DD's and immediately pull back their squadrons after the inevitable miss so the DD can get into stealth again. It's somehow too hard to understand to have them hanging there for a moment so the team can finish it off or God forbid: sport torps from the DD. What's annoying me more is the fact they can sit back, relax and delete ships without taking any risk. And I agree with @P2Win here. If a Haka wants you, you're toast (disregarding a fully AA specced Des Moines perhaps). It's also a matter of luck where you spawn. F.e. in the Fireisland or Mountain range the teams spawn so retardedly far apart the outside BB cannot catch up with the group to give group AA. Oh so fun and engaging to have your lonely ship be deleted with your flags and cammo's on it without hardly having te chance to retaliate!

I have very limited experience in playing CV's. I've come to play warships. Not stupidly clicking on a map to flies who sometimes obey commands but usually not. I'll play a decent RTS if I want that. No I wouldn't shed a tear if  CV's would be removed altogether.

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29 minutes ago, xXx_Blogis_xXx said:

oh another cry topic , why then not ask buff more aa

It doesnt seem like a cry topic, more like what are WG likely to do to make carriers more popular with the average user.

Making them easier to use, having less responsibilities, and less likely to be completely locked down by a better CV player seems a fairly likely route.

 

It also stands to reason that any changes to the class to make them more popular with the average user will probably be unpopular with veterans who are already comfortable with how they work.

 

Which means they probably dont hugely care about the opinions of the 1% who use CV as these changes suggested are generally how to better balance the 2 nations, and are instead probably interested in how to make the remaining 99% start playing them.

 

For comparison, look at WoWP. The existing players (a very small group) suggested a bunch of changes that were tweaks but that kept the original principle. Instead WG went a completely different route and instead launched a patch that was basically a different game.

Theres lots of new blood. The new people generally like it and say if it wasnt for these changes they would have never tried it/come back. The existing people hate it.

 

It wouldnt suprise me if the "great CV rework" is popular with the masses, and despised by the existing CV players

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Nah, carriers are fine. They should first fix the annoying bugs which we have been reporting since several versions ago.

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The new World of Warplanes is quite fun.   Maybe the way to fix CV's is to scrap the current UI and design, and either:

 

1) When fighters TB's DB's want to engage, the screen zooms in and the CV captain is suddenly flying the plane and doing the dog-fighting, torping, or dive bombing himself.

 

or,

 

2) Have CV battles be a game mode in WoWP and when planes engage in WoWS they are actually piloted by randoms who have qued for that game mode in WoWP. 

 

Obviously neither of those solutions are without problems, or technical and logistical challenges, but neither is the current state of CV play.

 

Regardless of what WG chooses, they need to be "thinking outside the box" for solutions rather than just tweaking what we have now.

 

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1 hour ago, Xevious_Red said:

It wouldnt suprise me if the "great CV rework" is popular with the masses, and despised by the existing CV players

 

Might very well be. After reading your other post, im pretty much convinced that you are right about the future of CVs, cause of the way we see Graf Z right now.

 

1 hour ago, Xevious_Red said:

It doesnt seem like a cry topic, more like what are WG likely to do to make carriers more popular with the average user.

 

To some ppl it will never occure, that in fact they are the whiners themself. They constantly accuse others of what they do themself. Several examples in this thread.

 

3 hours ago, pra3y said:

Sometimes you guys should make an effort learning how to avoid attacks from CV before complaining

 

Who is "you"? What are you talking about? Most part of the thread is about CV vs CV engagement.

 

2 hours ago, Ferry_25 said:

It's also a matter of luck where you spawn. F.e. in the Fireisland or Mountain range the teams spawn so retardedly far apart the outside BB cannot catch up with the group to give group AA. Oh so fun and engaging to have your lonely ship be deleted with your flags and cammo's on it without hardly having te chance to retaliate!

 

Yea true, this is a problem. I was on the receiving end of this once. No matter how you try to catch up with the fleet, if they run the other way (what they ususaly do) the distance to the meaningfull AA-ships will only increase before the enemy CV managed to find u. There is something about this, which I said a few times now. Most people will play the same style every round. They follow the same patterns, no matter if there is a CV or not. Which is a huge mistake.

 

1 hour ago, Xevious_Red said:

Which means they probably dont hugely care about the opinions of the 1% who use CV as these changes suggested are generally how to better balance the 2 nations, and are instead probably interested in how to make the remaining 99% start playing them.

 

Exelent point. Gotta quote you the next time, if somebody is told to "zip it" when there is a CV duscussion going on and someones opinion is beeing told to be meaningless cuz he doesnt play every CV up to T10.

 

3 hours ago, pra3y said:

People like you seem to think that Haku is some unstoppable monster when in fact its not exactly that hard to deal with them.

 

@P2Win is right in general. You just invent some kind of scenario, where a) the CV player is below avarage (coming with single squads? really?) b) the ENTIRE team plays as a team and relizses it has to defend against the biggest thread - CV (it never happens) c) there are lot of strong AA-ships around + they are AA-skilled + have a 19 or close to that captain (unrealisitc also). Also - with the +/-2 mm (for CVs), a T10 WILL meet T8 stuff. They cant drop those planes in time before beeing deleted. And the CV gets the bonus of doing extra heavy damage against the lower tier target. This however is not exclusiv to CVs. I find it hilarious that f.e. T8 cruisers are on such a disadvatage, that they are deleted by 2 T10 DD torps, cuz of the high dmg they take. Way to put a lowtierd Player even more ar disadvantage. Another thing about cruiser vs CV scenation: I play a lot of CA/CL. Before the round, I have to choose between DefAA / Hydro. I dont even know if I will face a CV or how many DDs on which map. Doesnt make sense. CA/CL need to have both consumables slotted. Especially with the low numbers of Cruisers around at high tiers.

 

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7 hours ago, Namolis said:

Back when CV truces were still a thing, we got a taste of what removing fighters would be like... so I would say no, unless they also did a substantial revamp of the strike power of carriers (ie. nerfed it heavily).

 

Problematically though, it still wouldn't stop good carriers from more or less shutting down destroyers with little or no counterplay available. Destroyers have no point when the only safe spot is the fleet - if you need to stay within a small, limited area anyway you might as well play a cruiser or a battleship.

 

So i see, if one can do that, its fine, but if both can do it its wrong and OP because suddenly its an even playing field for both? :Smile_facepalm:

Maybe u guys should first communicate because some ppl argue: CVs are easily shut down just group together, at the same time we have this above saying, DDs have no counterplay to being permaspotted. IT HAPPENS ALL THE TIME ALREADY!!!

 

4 hours ago, P2Win said:

The key issue with CV is their alpha strike potential. Let's take T10 for example...Unless you're a DM/Mino and a Haku wants you dead...THERE IS NOTHING YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT. That to be is incredibly broken and needs some sort of fixing. Perhaps AA should have the ability to stagger planes or something. Don't just laugh at my AA and one shot me because you can drop me from 5M away.

 

They dont understand that we cant control all the other 11 ships in our team. If they decide not to hug me with their AA when im 2 tiers lower than the CV, and my CV is dead/AFK/Deplaned, then yep, might aswell go back to port.

 

3 hours ago, RamirezKurita said:

 

There's plenty of things you can do about it, the whole point of teamwork is that you don't need to be in the DM/Mino yourself, you simply have to be near one. If there isn't an AA monster like one of those two available, then group up into 3-4 ships in a formation and enjoy the same benefits. The moment you sail away from your team you are playing right into the enemy carrier's hands.

 

So teamwork only works when u want it to work? If both CVs have the same capabilities without canceling each other out, Teamwork doesnt exist any more. I think that would result in a metashift which would benefit the game. Because as it is right now, BB going alone somewhere doesnt see that its their fault. He will whine and flame at his own CV because he didnt protect his [edited]. Without fighters, the BB needs to spec more for AA himself or stick with the fleet.

 

3 hours ago, pra3y said:

People like you seem to think that Haku is some unstoppable monster when in fact its not exactly that hard to deal with them. IJN torp squads only have 4 planes per squad. That's 12 planes in total to deal with. If anything you should be more worried about 3 USN DB squads stack dropping their bombs on you because they have more health overall with 21 planes. If those Haku TBs come at you individually or try and do a cross drop, any same tier CA or BB should be able to focus fire on the individual squads and take out most of them and minimize the damage. You don't even have to shoot down the whole squad, after shooting down 2/3 planes in one squad pick the next to focus fire on and you'll be minimizing the damage you receive already. If they come stacked together do the same thing and in addition turn in the direction they're approaching and you'll avoid quite abit of damage. How is it actually that difficult if you try?

 

Tell that to T8 ships which have a hard enough time when constanly playing against T10. Naturally the T10 CV will go for the easiest target, which would be T8 ships of any kind. While at the same time a good CV will shut down the other CV and one teams T8 ships have much more breathing space than the others.

Also thats why 5 out of 7 Tiers a CV has the highest average damage from all ships.

 

2 hours ago, P2Win said:

Good luck finding "teamwork" in randoms. Perhaps someday you'll learn this fantasy doesn't exist.

 

Been saying that too, but they think saying it makes it true. Because its not happening is ofc not the CVs fault.

 

2 hours ago, P2Win said:

There is a reason the HAKU has 10k more average damage than Midway, But what are stats right? I am fully aware how to avoid torpedoes. It becomes rocket science when they send all their squad at you, which most of the smart ones do, because they are fully aware they can get rid of a target in 1 strike, give and take they lose a few planes here and there.

 

Which doesnt matter because they have a hangar capacity of several dozens. Also last 2 weeks we approach 15k difference in damage.(and 0,3 more average kills). Also turning in advance can ofc be countered by dropping INSIDE the turn, which good CVs can do ofc. Even i managed to that with Independence against an Aoba. Because of the generally lower ruddershift time in hightiers, they cant turn in the opposite direction anymore, maybe only straighten the ship out.

 

2 hours ago, dCK_Ad_Hominem said:

Takes long enough to rearm planes and in a meta where every non ijn high tier bb has so many immunities cv striking power is a good thing. 

 

Yep, thats why so on 5 out of 7 tiers CVs have the highest Average damage, and from T7-10 also the highest average kills. Including there are total idiots playing CV who have an average damage of 1/3-1/4 of the normal average, so they need to get dragged upwards too.

 

1 hour ago, xXx_Blogis_xXx said:

oh another cry topic , why then not ask buff more aa

 

Go back, read again. But i could see how a change in CVs which would reduce the skill ceiling isnt very well liked by someone who likes to rape the enemy team with OP Saipan :Smile_trollface: Ye, hiding your stats doesnt help does it?

 

@Xevious_Red Yep, u are hitting the mark. Funny how many CV players generally say that CVs arent played much and so on, but a change which would make it more available to everyone gets stamped as crying.

That they basicly dont lose that much (or anything), is ofc dismissed.

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2 hours ago, xXx_Blogis_xXx said:

oh another cry topic , why then not ask buff more aa

 

Hehe was in a game against you the other night , After you had made our CV irrelevant in a few minutes and then systematically took are team apart I remember you finishing top with 4 kills , This of course brings up the issue of skill gap between CV players which I think is the major issue not the actual class themselves you would know better than anyone what needs to be done?.

 

WG need to imho re do the CV make in more user friendly to close that skill gap at the moment a few dominant good CV players are ruling the roost as they should being good however this will always be a contentious issue and of course you could argue that a good player in any class ship could do the same.

 

This is a debate where there are no winners do you punish a player for being good? or make the class more user friendly to encourage more equal play?.

 

Like I said you wont resolve this issue ever.

 

 

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7 minutes ago, MacFergus said:

the issue of skill gap between CV players which I think is the major issue not the actual class themselves

 

In this case, its really just the OP ship tho.

 

7 minutes ago, MacFergus said:

you would know better than anyone what needs to be done?.

 

There are 2 different types of people.

1. will look for any loophole, advantage etc and abuse it to the max. Also, denying that anything like this exists, while insulting everyone trying to argue against it.

2. Acknowledges the facts and tries to improve situation by giving usefull feedback with his experiance.

 

Time to pick the side I guess.

 

Edit:

 

7 minutes ago, MacFergus said:

This is a debate where there are no winners do you punish a player for being good? or make the class more user friendly to encourage more equal play?.

The ideal would be, to find ways, that rewards a good player and at the same time leaves room for beginners so that they can be useful. Not an easy thing, but I strongly belieave, that if the community puths their heads together, there will be good ideas. Ive already read some very fine suggestions, that ive never even thought about. If WG reads threads like this one and takes notice? - maybe. Chances are higher, if we keep the discussion on a high level tho.

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