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HMS Nelson Sloped Armour

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I think that WG have done some short cuts with regards to HMS Nelson as regards to armour.  Many years ago I used to construct scale models of ships and I was sure that in the article on the Nelson in the model box it was stated that both the Rodney and the Nelson had sloped armour.  Yet in the armour layout for the Nelson, there is no hit of the 15 degree slope on the armour that afforded extra protection 

 

HMS Nelson
HMS Nelson before the war.
Class overview
Name: Nelson class
Operators: 22px-Naval_Ensign_of_the_United_Kingdom. Royal Navy
Preceded by:
Succeeded by: King George V class
In service: 1927–1947
Completed: 2
Retired: 2
General characteristics (1942)
Type: Battleship
Displacement: 33,950 tons standard, 41,250 tons full load
Length: 660 ft (201.2 m) p/p, 710 ft (216.4 m) o/a
Beam: 106 ft (32.3 m)
Draught: 28.5 ft (8.7 m), 31.5 ft (9.6 m) full load
Installed power:
Propulsion: 2 shafts; geared steam turbines
Speed: 23 knots (43 km/h)
Range: 16,500 nmi (30,600 km; 19,000 mi) at 12 knots (22 km/h; 14 mph)
Complement: 1,361
Armament:
Armour:
  • Belt
  • 14 in,13 in between closing bulkheads
  • Middle deck
  • 6.25 in over magazines, 4.25 in over machinery spaces
  • Lower deck
  • 6.25 in over steering gear
  • Bulkheads
  • 12 in forward, 10 in aft closing bulkheads, 4 in at stern
  • 1.5 in longitudinals
  • 16 inch Turrets
  • 16 in faces, 11 in sides, 9 in rears, 7.25 in roofs
  • 14–15 in barbettes
  • 6 inch turrets
  • 1.5 in faces, 1 in sides, roofs & barbettes
  • Conning tower
  • 13.5 in sides, 7.5 in roof, 6 in communication tube
  • Director control tower
  • 6 in sides, 4 in roof
Aircraft carried: 1 (Nelson) / 2 (Rodney) from 1934
Aviation facilities: catapult on "B" turret (Rodney only)

Armour Protection

The Nelson class were the first British battleships to feature the all or nothing principle of armour in which a compartment was either fully armoured, or not at all. The protection comprised a main belt 14” thick over the main armament and 13”over the machinery spaces and the six inch guns, it was located internally some 12 feet inboard and sloped inwards at it’s base by 15 degrees, it covered from just over six feet above to six feet below the load water line, below this was the 1.5” anti torpedo bulkhead, out board of this protection scheme were void spaces which could be liquid filled to further absorb damage Inboard were compartments designed to limit flooding should the anti torpedo or armoured belt leak, the torpedo defence scheme was designed for defence against a 750 lb TNT charge.

The main armoured citadel was closed off with 12” armoured upper bulkhead forwards with a 7” one below it, aft the bulkhead was of 10” armour plate. Deck armour consisted of 6.25” over the magazines at the level of the upper-edge of the main belt reducing to 3.75” over the machinery, below this was a lower deck of 4.5” forwards and 4” aft, additional to the armour on each deck was an additional 0.5” of normal plating.

The barbettes protecting the turret operating machinery and shell hoists were 15” thick at the outboard and unprotected areas and 12” elsewhere, the main turrets had 16” thick face plates with 11” sides, 9” rear plates and 7.25” roofs, the six inch turrets were just 1.5” thick. The control tower and main director were protected with plating ranging from 16” to 4.5”.

image:Rodarm.jpg

The above image shows the armour distrubution on the Nelson, Rodney as her sistership was identical to this, the black area is the main armoured belt covering the machinery and main magazines this was 14" over the magazines and 13" aft over the machinery and 6" magazines. The armoured control tower is shown below the bridge and abaft Xturret, this armour was up to 16" thick.

 

What have WG done with this armour and when will it be reinstated or was it too hard to model 

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Because RL and Game balance doesnt necessarily work together.

U know, Ships in RL didnt push a magic button to restore its imaginary healthpool. :cap_fainting:

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Realism is lacking, isn't it? Well, you may have sloped armour if you also accept your ship to take 40 minutes to go from 0 to 20 kts, and to have a 2% average hit rate. Deal?

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1 hour ago, pzkpfwv1d said:

The protection comprised a main belt 14” thick over the main armament and 13”over the machinery spaces and the six inch guns, it was located internally some 12 feet inboard and sloped inwards at it’s base by 15 degrees

 

If this is what you're talking about it's already in the armor model.

Otherwise please specify exactly what you're referring to.

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Nelson's armour is accurate, it's really good for a tier 7 when angled. :cap_like:

The main issue, as always, is citadel location. WG are terribly inconsistent at simplifying these hit boxes and Nelson's is no different.

 

kYgGER2.jpg

Red = WG's box.

Yellow = Critical rooms most other ships use. (KGV uses the lowest deck)

Spoiler

2v3qww1.jpg

 

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The short of it is that WG probably wanted to replicate the strength of the Nelson class but in a different way other than heavy armour by giving her an off the chart healing ability instead.

 

She can tank enormous amounts of damage if you are good at managing consumables. 

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34 minutes ago, creamgravy said:

Nelson's armour is accurate, it's really good for a tier 7 when angled. :cap_like:

The main issue, as always, is citadel location. WG are terribly inconsistent at simplifying these hit boxes and Nelson's is no different.

 

kYgGER2.jpg

Red = WG's box.

Yellow = Critical rooms most other ships use. (KGV uses the lowest deck)

  Reveal hidden contents

2v3qww1.jpg

 

 

And by inconsistent you mean only the tier 8-10 USN BBs are arbitrarily buffed while every other BB follows the same rule.

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24 minutes ago, Nechrom said:

 

And by inconsistent you mean only the tier 8-10 USN BBs are arbitrarily buffed while every other BB follows the same rule.

 

You mean by WG deciding that the raised citadel which was full of ammo in reality was deemed bad for gameplay so they made all those parts of the ship non essential? :Smile_teethhappy:

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2 hours ago, Cosseria said:

Realism is lacking, isn't it? Well, you may have sloped armour if you also accept your ship to take 40 minutes to go from 0 to 20 kts, and to have a 2% average hit rate. Deal?

 

3 hours ago, DFens_666 said:

Because RL and Game balance doesnt necessarily work together.

U know, Ships in RL didnt push a magic button to restore its imaginary healthpool. :cap_fainting:

What are you guys on about?! While sure some of the realistic factors are taken out of the game, the historical armor models of most ships are actually used in game.

 

These posts have no merit in this discussion.

 

1 hour ago, Negativvv said:

She can tank enormous amounts of damage if you are good at managing consumables. 

While this is true, the reality is that how well a player does in Nelson is much more dictated by how lucky you are with MM... 

 

The Nelsons weakness to overmatching and citadels makes Nelson completely crippled against BBs or Cruisers that rely heavily on AP. Especially also since your heal is terrible at dealing with this sort of damage. Nelson is also crippled against Torpedo DDs and TBs since it is really darn big and cant heal much torpedo damage.

 

On the other hand the heal can heal so much against HE and fires that you are virtually unsinkable to ships that rely on HE spam.

 

In other words youll find yourself being able to tank for days in certain matches, then get unlucky and get double citadelled through the bow by a Colorado at 16KM and you have no way to heal back up.

 

All this considered I found Nelson to be extremely annoying to play as since you pray in hopes that you wont have to meet a big caliber BB. While on the other hand playing against a Nelson when youre in lets say Shchors feels like you are being cheated since it can heal your DPM 2 times over in no time.

 

 

Tbh I wish WG just implemented this OCs sloped AND lowered citadel and instead removed the ridiculous heal.

This way we are hopefully left with a balanced ship, but managed to hit two flies in a hit by removing the two big gameplay inconsistencies Nelson has, the annoyingly weak citadel and horribly unbalanced heal.

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9 minutes ago, Affeks said:

Tbh I wish WG just implemented this OCs sloped AND lowered citadel and instead removed the ridiculous heal.

This way we are hopefully left with a balanced ship, but managed to hit two flies in a hit by removing the two big gameplay inconsistencies Nelson has, the annoyingly weak citadel and horribly unbalanced heal.

 

If we could find a way to balance BBs without randomly make exception and lower citadels so that there are barely any BBs you can reliably citadel when they show flat broadside, that would be great.

The citadel is only "weak" because it's high. It's the same height of citadel that the tier 8-10 USN BBs had before the NA players whined enough on reddit to get them arbitrarily lowered without any balance reasons. And the Nelson's citadel is actually better armored than those USN BBs.

I don't like the argument, but in this case it's actually a "slippery slope" which just leads to awful gameplay where BBs can just derp around and not care about how they sail. Wasn't it okay to only have one BB line which could do that, you know the one that also is really inaccurate and has low DPM.

Checks and balances.

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If Nelson had proper armour she would likely be OP or have awful soft stats like derpy guns, slow rudder and turning circle etc

 

The tactical flexibility offered by the 3x3 front turrets is unmatched in game at this time other than Nikolai. You can change direction almost as much as you want with 16" firepower. I believe it's one of the heaviest front broadside of any BB in game? Izumo doesn't count as she can't rotate around her bow with all 9 guns.

 

I enjoy mine anyway...

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Nelson is already borderline OP. She has accurate and overmatching guns and has a very comfortable turret layout. The short fuse and citadel are both drawbacks... but holy hell that heal man. Dat heal.

 

It's always fun when the post-battle screen shows you that you really should have had two dreadnought awards.

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8 hours ago, Affeks said:

What are you guys on about?! While sure some of the realistic factors are taken out of the game, the historical armor models of most ships are actually used in game.

 

Because i cant hear that "But in RL it was like xxx" where they only cherry pick the stuff they want. That BBs were totaly useless (at some point in WW2) and couldnt hit crap really is dismissed easily then.

Its a game, games needs balance.

But i can understand, that WG giving every new ship line new gimmicks is totaly stupid and they need to balance them elsewhere. On the other hand it would be pretty stupid too if every BB would be the same.

 

8 hours ago, Negativvv said:

If Nelson had proper armour she would likely be OP

This.

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9 hours ago, Affeks said:

 

 

 

The Nelsons weakness to overmatching and citadels makes Nelson completely crippled against BBs or Cruisers that rely heavily on AP. Especially also since your heal is terrible at dealing with this sort of damage. Nelson is also crippled against Torpedo DDs and TBs since it is really darn big and cant heal much torpedo damage.

 

 

It doesn't seem like that many people know to use AP vs a Nelson... Even low calibre AP works pretty well as you rob her of the healing factor.

 

I did kill a Nelson in two salvos from full HP in an Alabama a few days ago, I basically yolo rushed the ship and nuked her with close range AP. If you're willing to do that there is not very much the Nelson can do about it except watch solid red numbers flash up on the screen.

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56 minutes ago, Negativvv said:

 

It doesn't seem like that many people know to use AP vs a Nelson... Even low calibre AP works pretty well as you rob her of the healing factor.

 

I did kill a Nelson in two salvos from full HP in an Alabama a few days ago, I basically yolo rushed the ship and nuked her with close range AP. If you're willing to do that there is not very much the Nelson can do about it except watch solid red numbers flash up on the screen.

I have found that my bane at t7 are Nagatos, those 410mm seem to citadel me from any angle :Smile-_tongue: I personally think the whole idea of this enormous zombie heal on Nelson and Lion/Conq is stupid and would prefer to have a more reasonable armor and citadel layout in exchange for standard heal. That spaced armor coupled with downward-sloped 356mm of steel could prove pretty effective.

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5 minutes ago, BlackYeti said:

I have found that my bane at t7 are Nagatos, those 410mm seem to citadel me from any angle :Smile-_tongue: I personally think the whole idea of this enormous zombie heal on Nelson and Lion/Conq is stupid and would prefer to have a more reasonable armor and citadel layout in exchange for standard heal. That spaced armor coupled with downward-sloped 356mm of steel could prove pretty effective.

 

Well 16" whether 406mm or 410mm appears to be the magic figure in WoWS when it comes to BB vs BB. It's when those massive damage strikes begin popping up far more commonly. Even something like Mutsu can blow huge holes in things at close range simply because of the calibre. Lion is pretty OP even with the heal nerfs, trick is to forget about the rear turrets when under fire and you'll outlast every other T9 or lower BB. 

 

Doubt we'll see a strengthened Nelson ever, it'll have to be superzombie flesh regeneration for us :Smile_sceptic:

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