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Jvd2000

Vigilance, does it makes the difference?

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I am thinking about the viability of the Vigilance skill on some of my BB captains. The ships are specific the ones that have no sonar or access to planes and are in the range of mid (5) to higher mid tiers (8). My first 12-10 points are given and i am closing in to the next threshold of a  3-4 point extra captain skill. Talking about ships like  the Guilio Cesare, the British BB line(Nelson,Orion, QE) and the October Revolution.

 

The 3 pts captain skill Vigilance gives you 25% acquisition range of torps. I found some tables on the internet about the extra meters you acquire in spotting enemy torps but I am actually more interested in player opinion about the real life benefit of this skill. During the lower tiers I am quite ok in anticipating ship launched torps. Either they are launched point blank or from a visible enemy ship. From tier V up torps can come from longer and unexpected(invisible) distances.

 

So how much leeway does this skill give me? Good enough to save me from a well planned torp attack? Limit the damage of an attack. Make me immune to a previous bad move? I know how to use the WASD hack but still eat torps, especially in the latter part of a game (with diminished teams on both side) and were i am up against remaining enemy dd's (and the token invisible torp spamming cruiser).

 

So basically what edge does this spec really give me? Knowing how to WASD, paying attention to environment but still eating the occasional devastating torp wall.

 

 

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Vigil probably won't save the brain dead. As in if you're broadside to torps then seeing them earlier won't help you at all.

 

It just helps you thread the ship between torps as you can prepare the turn earlier.

 

Of course it doesn't help boarder campers as they'll never commit to a push. 

 

Either way it's a luxury skill and the choice is often between Vigilance or Jack of All Trades then +1 to something like PT or that float plane skill.

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As you said you're already quite "torpedo aware", Vigilance won't probably be that useful. I used that skill early in the game when there were less different skills to choose from, less HE being thrown around, and I was poorer at anticipating torp walls.

Now my middle-tier BBs have a survivability build based on SI(3)+BoS(3)+FP(4). Because most torpedoes you can avoid as you said with situational awareness, while you can't dodge fires. Since you talk about 10-12pts captains, you probably already have 2 of these 3 skills. I suggest you pick the one you miss first. After that Vigilance could be useful, but I think if I had a very experienced captain at these tiers, I'd take Concealment to give my self more opportunities to loose contact when focused at mid range.

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5 minutes ago, fgibert said:

As you said you're already quite "torpedo aware", Vigilance won't probably be that useful. I used that skill early in the game when there were less different skills to choose from, less HE being thrown around, and I was poorer at anticipating torp walls.

Now my middle-tier BBs have a survivability build based on SI(3)+BoS(3)+FP(4). Because most torpedoes you can avoid as you said with situational awareness, while you can't dodge fires. Since you talk about 10-12pts captains, you probably already have 2 of these 3 skills. I suggest you pick the one you miss first. After that Vigilance could be useful, but I think if I had a very experienced captain at these tiers, I'd take Concealment to give my self more opportunities to loose contact when focused at mid range.

 

Well my current RN BB build is PM, EM, SI, CE, FP, AR and Vigil for 19.

 

I'll likely start a 2nd captain, Jackie D with JoAT and PT instead of Vigil some day.

 

Vigil combines with being torp aware, it's only useful if you know torps are coming anyway. I'm a big fan of rudder shift for BBs and I make up the fire prevention with FP the skill along with signal flags. 

 

I do however insist on taking Vigil in my Atago as I DD hunt in that thing and with hydro it boosts your survival rate quite a bit. 

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43 minutes ago, Negativvv said:

I do however insist on taking Vigil in my Atago as I DD hunt in that thing and with hydro it boosts your survival rate quite a bit. 

Wait you mean it stacks with hydro?

[Checks wiki]...[Confirmed]

[Feels like slapping himself]

All right then let's look at the bright side and say I learned something today, thanks mate! (but next time please enlighten me when the skill reset is still free). :Smile-_tongue:

 

Well I need to reevaluate my priorities regarding my 17th skill point on Bismarck then, especially since it stacks with the target acquisition module too... My Takao crew will have to wait for the next free commander skill reset I'm afraid...

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2 hours ago, fgibert said:

Wait you mean it stacks with hydro?

[Checks wiki]...[Confirmed]

[Feels like slapping himself]

All right then let's look at the bright side and say I learned something today, thanks mate! (but next time please enlighten me when the skill reset is still free). :Smile-_tongue:

 

Well I need to reevaluate my priorities regarding my 17th skill point on Bismarck then, especially since it stacks with the target acquisition module too... My Takao crew will have to wait for the next free commander skill reset I'm afraid...

Yes you have some epic stacking with the Target Acquisition Module and Hydro. Although I'd still take the Concealment Module for any BB that can equip it simply because everyone else does, being focused at 15km+ isn't fun when the rest of the team laughs at you in stealth...

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I didn't know those things stacked as well.

IMO vigilance isn't that useful on higher tier BB's. If you haven't learned by then when to expect torps vigilance won't matter much. Of course you (and I) get outwitted sometimes and are treated by a face full of torps. Doesn't really help to see the inevitable coming somewhat earlier...

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And now as I dont have concealment on my Bismarck, (Secondaries FTW) I'm starting to think scrapping that concealment module for target acquisition module... Sure I get shot more, but if I can boost my hydro it might be beneficial when I know that there is DD near but too far for my hydro... or if I end up in situation where pushing in to smoke is viable...

Then again last time I pushed a smoke I killed Belfast and Atlanta, and gave a pretty good beating to Kutuzov... And broke a stalemate on 1 flank of two brothers... where those 3 were holding off 4 other ships from our side... Sure they got me, but meh, That was to be expected.

 

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[BGNAV]
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I currently do not have this skill on any of my captains and refer to WASD hacks map awareness for dodging torps. Most of the time I do fine, occasionally I eat a torp. There are the very rare occurrences of slapping sideways in a torp wall and getting annihilated, but those are extremely rare and usually due to me out-thinking myself and counting on the enemy playing smarter than they actually do. These are so rare, that wasting 3 points is in fact pointless.

 

On the other hand eating even 1 torp in my GK or my Conqueror is nasty business. Taking it on the nose will slap a huge chunk of HP off me, but taking it on the side is likely to result in citadel damage that can't be healed for the most part. On GK it is not that good of an idea to put Vigilance - it has KM hydro. For the MegaZao however, it is a decent skill to have. Torps on the side will hamper your zombie heal if they do hit your citadel (which happens most of the time).

 

For Yamato and Montana I would never take this skill - the occasional torpedo will not do enough damage to make having this perk useful as these two BBs have very good torpedo belts.

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On 15/11/2017 at 2:05 PM, almitov said:

I currently do not have this skill on any of my captains and refer to WASD hacks map awareness for dodging torps. Most of the time I do fine, occasionally I eat a torp. There are the very rare occurrences of slapping sideways in a torp wall and getting annihilated, but those are extremely rare and usually due to me out-thinking myself and counting on the enemy playing smarter than they actually do. These are so rare, that wasting 3 points is in fact pointless.

 

On the other hand eating even 1 torp in my GK or my Conqueror is nasty business. Taking it on the nose will slap a huge chunk of HP off me, but taking it on the side is likely to result in citadel damage that can't be healed for the most part. On GK it is not that good of an idea to put Vigilance - it has KM hydro. For the MegaZao however, it is a decent skill to have. Torps on the side will hamper your zombie heal if they do hit your citadel (which happens most of the time).

 

For Yamato and Montana I would never take this skill - the occasional torpedo will not do enough damage to make having this perk useful as these two BBs have very good torpedo belts.

Well it'sa luxury skill, could take High Alert or JoAT instead. I'd only take Vigil as my last 3 points.

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[IRQ]
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I very rarely bother with Vigilance. Most of the time I can either dodge the torpedoes anyway, or it's already too late. It doesn't make enough of a difference. There's pretty much always some other skill to invest in, that will make a difference more of the time.

 

On 15/11/2017 at 0:35 PM, JOVA1982 said:

And now as I dont have concealment on my Bismarck, (Secondaries FTW) I'm starting to think scrapping that concealment module for target acquisition module... Sure I get shot more

 

The way I play Bismarck I don't really get shot at more without any stealth modifiers, camo aside. Even with both skill and upgrade I'm still be spotted most of the time anyway, so I decided to focus more on secondaries and survival more. With the extra stacking of the other stuff, Vigilance makes a bit of sense, but it might be overkill.

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Beta Tester
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I used to pick Vilgilance ahead of Superintendent when I started out as a battleship captain. I kinda suck at being a captain of a capital ship, and I usually got sunk way before I had the chance to use that extra consumable, whereas Vigilance is useful pretty much anytime someone decides to torp you. That extra warning can save your life.

 

However, I've upped my gaming skills somewhat since then, so that I have now had the opportunity to profit, not infrequently, from Superintendent. Moreover, I have learned not to sail in straight lines. So at least for me, Superintendent is now by far the more useful of the two skills!

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Using this skill on USN and IJN BBs. It's useful for me.

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On BBs I think it is viable on some USN dreadnoughts (mainly T6 and T7) and on Warspite thanks to their exceptionally tight turning circle, especially if combined with steering gears mod. 2. Other than that, I think if certain torps are meant to hit you, they will hit you regardless of the additional ~300m of spotting. I rather spend the 3 points on BoS to minimize the damage over time.

 

Vigilance is best spent on German cruisers imho, e.g. Hipper's torpedo detection can reach 5 km with hydro. This makes your allied BBs very happy.

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With the imminent arrival of the pan asian DD with their deep water torps and the very shirt spotting range...Does this means the Vigilence perk just got better or just even more useless?

 

Spotting is only useful when you have the time to react. Which is a combination of spotting time, quickness of rudder on your BB and the angle of the torps. Deep water torps give you almost no reaction time so even with a 25% buff it seems to me that this skill just got less useful with the exception of German sonar equipped BB's.

 

So with the new deep water torps..vigilence gives you one more second to realize you're dead?

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1 hour ago, Jvd2000 said:

So with the new deep water torps..vigilence gives you one more second to realize you're dead?

I have not played PTS yet as all my PCs were down for a week but judging from Flamu's WiP commentaries this seems very likely. But a BB should dodge torps preemptively anyway by moving as unpredictably as possible, so you either dodge most/all torps by guts feeling or you get sunk. Even with normal spotting I often fail to dodge if I get caught by surprise.

 

I should probably revise my above statement: Vigilance is best spent on ships with German hydro. Kurfürst can have the same 5 km torp spotting range after all.

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