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GreyHoundCRO

Automated drop for torpedos on CV's

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I started a normal game with my tier IV Langley, found enemy CV and send my torpedo squadron to finish him. In the picture below you can see destination I have set for my torpedo squadron, and the actual drop zone. WG, please fix this or add manual drop because you need a lot of time to master it. One more thing, add more planes on IV Langley because IJN carrier is now always more powerful than American.

WTF.png

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Manual drop was removed from teir 4 and 5 cvs to stop people to sealclubbing (it was a little over kill at times), they didn't however protect teir 5 from seeing teir 6 cvs which get all the manual attacks back, so good luck with that.

 

 

Apart from that you need to post this bug stuff in the bug section so there is a much better chance of WG seeing it

 

edit: some spellings, i really should stop posting late at night 

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11 hours ago, procrastinatingStudent said:

they did however protect teir 5 from seeinf teir 6 cvs which get all the manual attacks back, so good luck with that.

 

they didn't.. :cap_old: you can meet T6 CVs in your T5 CV

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14 minutes ago, lup3s said:

they didn't.. :cap_old: you can meet T6 CVs in your T5 CV

 

Its true, they didnt. Horrible for the T5 CV player and a total joke that WG missed to adress this.

 

15 hours ago, GreyHoundCRO said:

add more planes on IV Langley

 

This is not gonna solve anything. T3/T4 AA is many times non-existant, so that CVs often dont lose any planes while attacking ships. Giving more planes to the CV will only shift the balance between better players more and make it again easier to sealclub. The balance between IJN and US CVs needs to be achieved with a different solution.

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11 hours ago, procrastinatingStudent said:

they did however protect teir 5 from seeinf teir 6 cvs which get all the manual attacks back, so good luck with that.

 

Playing a tier 5 CV you can actually have a t6 or even t7 CV in the game, both of which completely outclass you.

 


 

As for the original problem - the answer is free xp through tier 4 and 5 CVs, start with tier 6 where your CV isn't useless anymore... Altho in the case of US CV line I guess you would have to get to 9 before you're not useless...

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1 hour ago, wilkatis_LV said:

 

Playing a tier 5 CV you can actually have a t6 or even t7 CV in the game, both of which completely outclass you.

 


 

As for the original problem - the answer is free xp through tier 4 and 5 CVs, start with tier 6 where your CV isn't useless anymore... Altho in the case of US CV line I guess you would have to get to 9 before you're not useless...

 

Independence is quite good with the 1-1-1 (depending on MM though - like most CVs)

 

I played strike Ranger once I unlocked that setup. Had some fun with it.

 

Lexington.. still unlocking modules in COOP :/

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The biggest issue with auto-drop is that an enemy is actually better off just sitting still as you can then only hit them with a max of one or two torpedoes since the US CV spread fans outwards. It's completely idiotic if you ask me, the fix for it would be to increase the arm distance of torps for manual drops. Thus a target would still be able to evade to an extent without the stupid auto drops being borderline useless.

 

If you ask me, auto drops shouldn't even be a thing. It's the equivalent of using an aim bot for gunnery, but it just increases your dispersion slightly. People would be crying from here to hell and back about what a completely idiotic thing that was, but for CV's it's fine in WG's warped dimension.

 

I would increase reserves in low tiers too, mainly because you only have say enough planes for one replacement squadron of each type in Langley, sometimes that doesn't last long at all especially if you have tier V BB's some of which actually have respectable AA when it comes to mauling the lowest tier aircraft. For experienced players it's not so much an issue, but for CV newbies it's pretty massive as they won't be as aware of what are the AA threats and will find themselves unable to launch squadrons quickly, feel frustrated and quit playing CV's before they've even had a chance.

 

Without auto drop, CV's would have to learn how to play the class. It would do away with the stupid argument that manual drops in low tiers = seal clubbing. You can seal club far more effectively in some premium ships which are still on sale WG! *cough König Albert cough* Maybe you should remove the players ability to aim their guns and just have them behave like secondaries when you click a target? Sounds like a great idea right?!

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13 minutes ago, Drunken_Jedi said:

Without auto drop, CV's would have to learn how to play the class

 Good point.

 

13 minutes ago, Drunken_Jedi said:

Maybe you should remove the players ability to aim their guns and just have them behave like secondaries when you click a target? Sounds like a great idea right?!

 

Ive said it in another thread which got totaly derailed by some freak - I see the problem is the passive mechanic. Passive mechanics (like secondaries) are boring, dont teach a player nothing and will always be frustrating. There are too many passive mechanics already, for instance besides the auto drop and the secondaries we have AA and the Fighterplanes on low Tier. Looking at WGs approach, they seem to go the other direction - removing manual drop, removing strafe. But then again, other components of the gameplay are beeing dumbed-down aswell. Id rather see actual effords and good play beeing rewarded instead of beeing removed.

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I agree, secondaries I can sort of let slide since trying to manuever your ship, manage secondaries and your main armament would be too much for many players. AAA on the other hand, I think should be massively influenced by how you position your ship. For instance BB's have less AA facing directly astern or forward thus their AA should be reduced against say dive bombers approaching from dead astern compared to torpedo bombers which had a harder time and met with the full force of a BB's AA as it's entire broadside could engage them. Matches RL with the game mechanics in that sense.

 

Being able to counter an entire class by not doing anything is just insulting. I had a Lion sitting completely still the other week, engaged him with my Shokaku (last ship alive) and he shot down all but 2 of my bombers from a complement of 8 before I could even drop. A stationary target like that should be punished massively, but he defeated me by doing absolutely nothing.... at the very most he ctrl clicked my planes for extra DPS... 

 

It's really dumb, and I have no faith in WG to improve the situation with their "AA rework" while AA gets buffed with literally every patch.

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17 hours ago, GreyHoundCRO said:

(...)One more thing, add more planes on IV Langley because IJN carrier is now always more powerful than American.

 

Not really. I pushed out the Lang' for the OktRev campaign, and you really have to screw up to not rape a 4-plane fighter squadron who can't strafe you or even strafe out from the locked up fight with a 6-plane fighter squadron. Damagewise it is true if you let the Hosho d*ck around, but with a Langley you won't do that for too long. Plus at those tiers people are unable to DCP correctly, so put up a flooding flag and you are usually good to go.

Tl;dr I'd argue that yes, generally speaking the IJN carriers are better, but now without manual strafe you can basically reign free in a Langley against a Hosho. Without a whole lot of problem.

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2 hours ago, wilkatis_LV said:

 

Playing a tier 5 CV you can actually have a t6 or even t7 CV in the game, both of which completely outclass you.

 


 

As for the original problem - the answer is free xp through tier 4 and 5 CVs, start with tier 6 where your CV isn't useless anymore... Altho in the case of US CV line I guess you would have to get to 9 before you're not useless...

Actually, no, you can't - a t5 CV player can only see t7 match if he's queuing in a division AND there is another division with t5 CV (so that there is another t5 CV eligible for being pulled into t7 match). When queuing alone, a t5 CV enjoys protected matchmaking so that the highest tier match he might end up in is t6.

 

As for the original problem - you missed the point. OP did mention that he'd like to have manual drops, but the main point of the post is the obvious UI bug where the TBs dropped from wrong angle - look at the locked angle of drop (the yellow stripe) and at the torps, already in water, coming from a completely different direction...

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Are you sure about protected MM? Just because they can only meet up to t6 CV doesn't mean t7 ships of other classes can't be in the mix.

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1 hour ago, ForlornSailor said:

Ive said it in another thread which got totaly derailed by some freak - I see the problem is the passive mechanic. Passive mechanics (like secondaries) are boring, dont teach a player nothing and will always be frustrating. There are too many passive mechanics already, for instance besides the auto drop and the secondaries we have AA and the Fighterplanes on low Tier. Looking at WGs approach, they seem to go the other direction - removing manual drop, removing strafe. But then again, other components of the gameplay are beeing dumbed-down aswell. Id rather see actual effords and good play beeing rewarded instead of beeing removed.

PZ6qxFi.jpg?1

It makes you think that same and same requests are showing up constantly for over two years and nothing was done with it over this time.

 

On 2.11.2015 at 5:34 PM, Ishiro32 said:
Spoiler

 

What I would love to see is for the positioning to be a big factor in AAA defence. Obviously we can not simulate AAA completely and I think current zone system is not completely worthless. Thing is, it's too simple and does not leave any space for counterplay and play. What I would like to see is just expanding zone system for it take into account from which side the planes are comming. Something like pictures below (1000 hours in paint, red strong AAA, green weak AAA)

 

strong front AAA.pngstrong side AAA.png.

 

Basic idea is that based on AAA placment on the ship, each would have different AAA coverage. Then if someone would like to actually use his AAA to his advantage he would have to actually think about positioning and use it, play around individual ships strengths. The same way that type of AAA leaves some holes, weaker spots which can be used by carrier players.

Additionally it does promote moving in fleet as they can cover each own weaker spots creating strong bubble.

 

 

This is just one of the old posts about AAA and look at the date, lovely isn't it? There was also plenty of dedicated topics about AAA and post I quoted is just one of many I wrote on this topic, this one is just easiest for me to find.

 

Everyone hates AAA for as long as I remember. It is always either too weak or too strong and simplicity of it is the cause. It is kind of incredible they still did not tackle the thing most people complained about.

 

@OP

Report this as a bug. I know WG pretty much showed middle finger to anyone playing on tier IV and V, but oh well... Get used to it

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27 minutes ago, eliastion said:

Actually, no, you can't - a t5 CV player can only see t7 match if he's queuing in a division AND there is another division with t5 CV (so that there is another t5 CV eligible for being pulled into t7 match). When queuing alone, a t5 CV enjoys protected matchmaking so that the highest tier match he might end up in is t6.

 

As for the original problem - you missed the point. OP did mention that he'd like to have manual drops, but the main point of the post is the obvious UI bug where the TBs dropped from wrong angle - look at the locked angle of drop (the yellow stripe) and at the torps, already in water, coming from a completely different direction...

 

t5 ships can meet ships in the following types of matchmaking:

  • t5 game -> t4 and t5 ships
  • t6 game -> t5 and t6 ships
  • t7 game -> t5, t6 and t7 ships

Any tier 5 ship can meet a tier 7, they have -1/+2 matchmaking.

A tier 4 CV will see a tier 6  or 7 CV if they faildivision with a 5, but 5 can meet them normally

 

I've met 7s while playing 5s, and I've met 5s while playing 7s.

 

And you missed my point - tier 4 and 5 CVs are completely useless, there is no point in playing them and developing dumb habits that will make you a useless mid-tier CV player. Better start learning at 6 by skipping the 4 and 5

 

And as for that directional thing - might be a classical case of desync, or might be whatever that other guy playing a DD had, there recently was a post showing his torps going in some completely random direction.

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36 minutes ago, eliastion said:

Actually, no, you can't - a t5 CV player can only see t7 match if he's queuing in a division AND there is another division with t5 CV (so that there is another t5 CV eligible for being pulled into t7 match). When queuing alone, a t5 CV enjoys protected matchmaking so that the highest tier match he might end up in is t6.

 

W8, I think I know how it works. A t5 CV by itself won't meet a t7 CV, but the second you are in division with any other t5 ship - they can meet the t7 CV and so can you. It's not a faildivision, it's simply a division

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41 minutes ago, wilkatis_LV said:

Any tier 5 ship can meet a tier 7, they have -1/+2 matchmaking.

No. CV's aren't treated like "any tier 5 ship" - they have protected MM. They won't EVER find themselves in t7 match unless they're divisioned. And even if you get divisioned, while technically eligible for t7 matches, you won't ever see any unless there's ANOTHER divisioned t5 CV in the queue - because CV matchmaking is mirrored and a solo t5 CV couldn't get to a t7 match to be your mirrored opponent. Only if MM finds two divisioned t5 CVs there's a chance that they might end up facing any t7 ships.

 

In fact, it doesn't only work with equal tier divs, there's a small trick: you can make a faildivision of t5 CV with t6 ships (or t4 CV with t5 ships, but I'll focus on the higher tier option). Such a division is almost always top tier (playing t6 battles) because

1. Technically the MM for a division with t6 ships is t6-t8

but

2. The t5 CV MUST face another t5 CV and t5 CVs that play solo can only see battles of t5-t6.

 

Of course, the above works only if few people use it, because if there are two such faildivisions in the queue... guess what, both are eligible for t8 match while providing t5 CV opponent for each other. Aaand that's how you can potentially have your shenanigans punished with your t5 CV meeting North Carolinas - funfunfun :Smile_teethhappy:

 

EDIT:

PS:

41 minutes ago, wilkatis_LV said:

And you missed my point - tier 4 and 5 CVs are completely useless, there is no point in playing them and developing dumb habits that will make you a useless mid-tier CV player. Better start learning at 6 by skipping the 4 and 5

Does lack of manual drop prevent you from learning proper CV tactics? Yes. Are t5 CVs pretty boring? Sure. Are they useless? Hell, no. T5 CV can still torp sluggish, AA-less BBs that don't even know how to react to airdrops and often turn away when dropped from 90 degrees, eating quite a few torps. And CVs can still spot squish-but-stealthy low tier DDs. Do you know what's my greatest fear when I play my Kamikaze R from time to time? It's a good player in one of these (often doubled) enemy CVs. Because while I can often carry a game hard (it's called sealclubbing for a reason) there's little I can do if a CV makes it his personal job of the day to keep me spotted. And even friendly ships don't offer much help here, because their AA bubbles are small and weak. And while an experienced player in an OP premium isn't that common of a sight, it's the tier where stealthy torpboats do stealthy torping and players are even more eager than on t10 to sail in straight lines - shutting down enemy DDs is often the key to victory. A ship that can do that is most definitely NOT useless

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24 minutes ago, eliastion said:
Spoiler

 

No. CV's aren't treated like "any tier 5 ship" - they have protected MM. They won't EVER find themselves in t7 match unless they're divisioned. And even if you get divisioned, while technically eligible for t7 matches, you won't ever see any unless there's ANOTHER divisioned t5 CV in the queue - because CV matchmaking is mirrored and a solo t5 CV couldn't get to a t7 match to be your mirrored opponent. Only if MM finds two divisioned t5 CVs there's a chance that they might end up facing any t7 ships.

 

In fact, it doesn't only work with equal tier divs, there's a small trick: you can make a faildivision of t5 CV with t6 ships (or t4 CV with t5 ships, but I'll focus on the higher tier option). Such a division is almost always top tier (playing t6 battles) because

1. Technically the MM for a division with t6 ships is t6-t8

but

2. The t5 CV MUST face another t5 CV and t5 CVs that play solo can only see battles of t5-t6.

 

Of course, the above works only if few people use it, because if there are two such faildivisions in the queue... guess what, both are eligible for t8 match while providing t5 CV opponent for each other. Aaand that's how you can potentially have your shenanigans punished with your t5 CV meeting North Carolinas - funfunfun :Smile_teethhappy:

 

EDIT:

PS:

Does lack of manual drop prevent you from learning proper CV tactics? Yes. Are t5 CVs pretty boring? Sure. Are they useless? Hell, no. T5 CV can still torp sluggish, AA-less BBs that don't even know how to react to airdrops and often turn away when dropped from 90 degrees, eating quite a few torps. And CVs can still spot squish-but-stealthy low tier DDs. Do you know what's my greatest fear when I play my Kamikaze R from time to time? It's a good player in one of these (often doubled) enemy CVs. Because while I can often carry a game hard (it's called sealclubbing for a reason) there's little I can do if a CV makes it his personal job of the day to keep me spotted. And even friendly ships don't offer much help here, because their AA bubbles are small and weak. And while an experienced player in an OP premium isn't that common of a sight, it's the tier where stealthy torpboats do stealthy torping and players are even more eager than on t10 to sail in straight lines - shutting down enemy DDs is often the key to victory. A ship that can do that is most definitely NOT useless

 

 

 

Did you even red the 2nd message? Yes, there will be a t5 CV on the other team, but up to tier 7 you can get 2 CVs, and if you are in a division with any other t5 ships you can meet a t7 CV because they can do so. t5 CV divisioned with other t5 ships is not a faildivision, and yet it lets them meet the tier 7 CVs, no 6s needed for that

 

Japanese can be useful, yes. Crossdrop is a thing.

What are Bogues  option?

  • 1-1-0 you have a fighter and a torp squad who drop so far back that DDs and almost all cruisers can dodge it with no effort. So you can go for a hit on BBs, but even they can still dodge most if not all your torps
  • 2-0-1 you can dominate the sky but you will do no dmg
  • 0-1-2 you have no air control, your torps are still dropped ridiculously far away and your DBs are pure RNG, you can easily miss all 12 bombs on a BB not even talking about smaller ships

that pretty much reads as useless.

 

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1 hour ago, eliastion said:

Actually, no, you can't - a t5 CV player can only see t7 match if he's queuing in a division AND there is another division with t5 CV (so that there is another t5 CV eligible for being pulled into t7 match).

 

Ahem...

On 9/8/2017 at 2:26 AM, Estaca_de_Bares said:

 

@Sargento_YO, feel free to quote my comments if some visual proof is needed about something. Remember that a picture is worth a thousand words. I'll put it here myself this time. From a thread about Zuiho in the Spanish forum, regarding T5 CVs in T8 battles if both belong to "fail divisions":

 

Salute.

 

On 24/3/2017 at 9:38 PM, Estaca_de_Bares said:

Zuihos in tier 8

 

As you can see, MM for T4-5 CVs when divisioning (or more precisely, when fail divisioning) has already been discussed from time to time.

 

Salute.

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3 hours ago, ForlornSailor said:

Ive said it in another thread which got totaly derailed by some freak - I see the problem is the passive mechanic.

 

Passive mechanics aren't necessarily bad IF active mechanics would be unfeasible or utterly unenjoyable. AA is one of those things.

For example, imagine the following scenario:

You're in a brawl with an enemy ship and planes come swooping in to capitalize on you. If AA was an active mechanic, you would have to give up engaging one of these to focus on the other, giving the one you do not focus on a free pass to farm you for damage.

 

The nature of combat in this game simply wouldn't allow you to split your play between surface and aerial threats in any but the most extreme circumstances. With an active AA mechanic the mere presence of planes would be able to decide games, dodging and weaving through AA so that the rest of the team can descent upon helpless targets.

(Not to mention it will require an even greater amount of skill, teamplay and coordination out of a playerbase that thinks it is too hard to even stick together.)

You're obviously right with WG attempting to dumb the game down in ridiculous and utterly stupid ways (I think no one really disagrees that removing manual attacks at low tiers was a stupid [edited] idea) and current AA mechanics can and should be improved upon, but that AA is passive is a necessary evil.

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7 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

You're in a brawl with an enemy ship and planes come swooping in to capitalize on you. If AA was an active mechanic, you would have to give up engaging one of these to focus on the other, giving the one you do not focus on a free pass to farm you for damage.

 

You know what? I think it would be perfectly ok to capitalize on such a scenario. Its the perfect image of teamplay - engage a player with 2 different threads so that he has to work to survive. Btw I dont really mean with active that one should literally press a "shoot AA button" every 0,5 sec. I think, the manual targeting should be more focused on. It shouldnt also be a captain skill for BBs, but it should be default. If you dont mark a target - secondaries wont shoot. And why not have AA act the same way but then be more efficent when focusing. @Ishiro32 made a very good suggestion aswell.

 

Also I dont think, that players on general cant cope with doing two things simultaniously. Its standard in many other games. in wows, DD-players f.e. do a lot of things at the same time also: check the minimap, check incoming torpedos, check their torpedotubes, check for enemy planes, check for caps, check their own detection circle - and what not else.

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6 minutes ago, ForlornSailor said:

I think, the manual targeting should be more focused on.

 

What you're suggesting is adding a bit more interaction to what is still a passive mechanic. And in my book that falls under "improving current AA mechanics". :)

I was thinking more along the lines of full control over AA armament including altitude and lead, which I do believe is unfeasible. Sorry for not making that clear.

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1 minute ago, El2aZeR said:

What you're suggesting is adding a bit more interaction to what is still a passive mechanic. And in my book that falls under "improving current AA mechanics". :)

I was thinking more along the lines of full control over AA armament including altitude and lead, which I do believe is unfeasible. Sorry for not making that clear.

 

I see. Yea, I actually was thinking about something like this too, but came to the conclusion, that it really might be too demanding to be handled. Althought I really sounds cool. And yes, my suggestion basicly keeps a passive mechanic but one, that raises the interaction with the player. It will punish bad play and reward good play. I gotta be honest - sometimes my AA shoots and im looking confused - what did I shot now at? Then again I see a CV moving in, i activate defAA perfectly, mark the target... just so that the CV drops me and THEN loses 2 planes. Both is stupid, one time for me, the other time for the CV. I may be so bold and quote from a different thread, I hope Ishiro32 doesnt mind. It discribes perfectly what I tried to say a few times.

 

23 hours ago, Ishiro32 said:

We have a situation in which a bad and good player will have same results when defending in a 1 v 1 situation. The only active participant in this interaction is CV player and his skill will determine the results. This system regardless of numbers have a bad habit of generating situation in which either CV player or defending player feel helpless.

 

If I dont see the enemy planes and dont mark them - they shouldnt drop to my AA. On the other hand, if I did everything right, I expect some results, and not beeing screwed over by RNG. If I want to bet on my luck, I play BlackJack with my friends, not World of Warships.

Its equaly stupid for a DD that rushes a german BB from the back, just to be detonated from his secondaries - I literally had a situation, where I did sneak with my Farragut on a Bismarck and before I could lauch my trops, his secondaries killed me. He didnt even notice I was there.

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4 hours ago, Drunken_Jedi said:

The biggest issue with auto-drop is that an enemy is actually better off just sitting still as you can then only hit them with a max of one or two torpedoes since the US CV spread fans outwards

 

I can assure you, when you use the proper launch angle, you can hit a BB with 2 to 3 torpedoes from the Langley. I don't play CVs that often anymore, but often enough when I want to club some seals or a mission asks for planes shot down or something, and I still manage to keep my winrate with the Langley at 68% with 41k average damage, even though I regularly go after cruisers and DDs too.

Of course it is way easier to sealclub with the Hosho and it's two TB squads. Even with autodrop the Hammer & Anvil drop works great.

 

So removing manual drop from T4/5 did imho nothing to stop sealclubbing.

 


 

@OP I never encountered a drop like the one You describe in game ever...

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5 hours ago, Drunken_Jedi said:

Maybe you should remove the players ability to aim their guns and just have them behave like secondaries when you click a target? Sounds like a great idea right?!

lol.... but you have a point !

 

mang

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7 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

 

Passive mechanics aren't necessarily bad IF active mechanics would be unfeasible or utterly unenjoyable. AA is one of those things.

For example, imagine the following scenario:

You're in a brawl with an enemy ship and planes come swooping in to capitalize on you. If AA was an active mechanic, you would have to give up engaging one of these to focus on the other, giving the one you do not focus on a free pass to farm you for damage.

 

The nature of combat in this game simply wouldn't allow you to split your play between surface and aerial threats in any but the most extreme circumstances. With an active AA mechanic the mere presence of planes would be able to decide games, dodging and weaving through AA so that the rest of the team can descent upon helpless targets.

(Not to mention it will require an even greater amount of skill, teamplay and coordination out of a playerbase that thinks it is too hard to even stick together.)

You're obviously right with WG attempting to dumb the game down in ridiculous and utterly stupid ways (I think no one really disagrees that removing manual attacks at low tiers was a stupid [edited] idea) and current AA mechanics can and should be improved upon, but that AA is passive is a necessary evil.

 

AA will always be passive in that sense, I can't imagine people taking control of their AA guns. However it being 100% passive is not the answer, at least have actual fields of fire for AA instead of a 360 degree magical bubble. Give AA crews finite ammo before they have to reload for say 10 seconds or whatever. I think AA DPS should be halved for times when the player is not designating targets since that way at least people who are AFK can't farm plane kills just because they flew in it's aura. I've always said that there should be no mechanics which allows players to cause damage through absolutely zero input. The same philosophy would apply to secondary batteries too.

 

Heck, make manual AA and secondaries a sort of default skill where they don't engage anything unless the player clicks on it. Even if you're brawling planes are spotted from so far away you have PLENTY of time to click them. Just a simple mouse click.

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