Mikasa, give it protected MM WG!

[Drunken_Jedi]

So, we all know Mikasa is... well... pretty bad. It is however AMAZING FUN in tier II games, albeit still extremely mediocre. Getting thrown into pretty much full tier III games just makes you a paperweight and ultimately useless.

 

Given that she's the only pre-dreadnought BB... why does she need to meet ships which made her irrelevant in real life. The Dreadnought class of BB from the Royal Navy, otherwise in game known as HMS Bellerophon. Nassau and Konig Alberts just laugh at this ship ( Albert laughs at all tier III BB's so that's another matter lol). Heck even DD's and CL's just laugh at it.

 

It's only saving grace is it's secondary armament, which only ever comes into play with the smaller t2 maps. I would argue that her secondaries actually be made her primary armament and her main battery secondary... but WG seem to dislike that idea.

 

Ultimately, there's really no harm in making her always top tier in tier II games. It's the only in game environment she ever stands a chance in. Wargaming are always hesitant to put protected MM in Warships, however we've seen it already with the +1 MM for tier IV ships for the same reasons I've already mentioned. The power gap between Mikasa and her tier III opponents is just too great, give her some love so she can shine.

 

Please Wargaming! @MrConway @Tuccy

[Pametrada]

As a fellow sorry Mikasa commander, I second the above.

 

[Drunken_Jedi]

Ugh... as if MM wasn't bad enough. Just got straight up team killed by some idiot in a German DD. Some people...

[deadly_if_swallowed]

She could be quite nice if she had access to Aiming Systems Mod. 0 (the one that Yubari and Katori have). This one single upgrade could solve most of her problems at once.

 

Quote

Increases firing accuracy of the secondary battery and main battery, accelerates traverse speed of torpedo tubes and extends firing range of the secondary battery:

• +20% to main battery traverse speed.
• -40% to maximum dispersion of main battery shells.
• +20% to torpedo tubes traverse speed.
• +20% to secondary battery maximum firing range.
• -40% to maximum dispersion of secondary battery shells.

 

[wilkatis_LV]

Not being top tier is often not fun, what a surprise.

Many ships go up against ships that were build / designed to counter them, or simply made them irrelevant, why would this one be special?

[Drunken_Jedi]

1 minute ago, wilkatis_LV said:

Not being top tier is often not fun, what a surprise.

Many ships go up against ships that were build / designed to counter them, or simply made them irrelevant, why would this one be special?

 

This goes beyond simple "DD counters BB" kind of argument. Compared to anything at tier III, Mikasa is just a fish in a barrel.

 

She can do 19knts with a speed flag, her guns are terrible and can't even hit BB's at close range nevermind anything taking evasive action. Her secondaries, her only saving grave have very short range and require a high skill captain to really get any sort of use to make a difference. She's not just countered, she's compeltely obsolete. Her lack of firepower, speed and maneuverability mean that in the confines of the game mechanics she just doesn't work in tier III.

 

There are MANY instances where being bottom tier isn't an issue by use of smart play to compensate for any statistical differences between your ship and your adversaries. Mikasa is literally so redundant even good play can't save you in the vast majority of circumstances you'll find yourself in.

[AkosJaccik]

24 minutes ago, wilkatis_LV said:

Not being top tier is often not fun, what a surprise.

Many ships go up against ships that were build / designed to counter them, or simply made them irrelevant, why would this one be special?

 

Let me put this in one sentence: Mikasa is the only ship you can esentially counter by not going closer to her than 3 km.

That's practically a fact - and a hilarious one too, as probably the only ship in the entire game that the Mikasa can at least keep up with is the Katori, so keeping distance is about as easy as kicking a toddler. Not a fact, but a strong opinion that Mikasa is also the most useless and barely fun ship currently in the game (which is not a problem in itself, the problem is the margin), relying almost entirely on the stupidity of the enemy. I know, "collector's item". Problem is, that WoWs classifies itself as a game, not as a glorified 3D wiever.

 

By the way, I agree that something needs to be done (although that was the case for a long time and WG said in one of the Q&E-s that "stats say it's fine"), but I don't think restricted MM is the way to go, mainly because it will open Pandora's box and allow WG to screw with the MM even more instead of cleaning it. The ASM0 is, for one, an interesting idea on the other hand.

[Vanhal]

21 minutes ago, wilkatis_LV said:

Not being top tier is often not fun, what a surprise.

Many ships go up against ships that were build / designed to counter them, or simply made them irrelevant, why would this one be special?

 

Any tier 3 ships murders Mikasa outrights. The disparity is bigger than in any possible case of one tier difference in the entire game.

Even T2 ships are usually faster and have more range, so that allow anyone who knows anything about Mikasa to kill it without any problem.

Hell, considering equal skill of above average amount, even a T1 ship could win every single time (bar unfortunate detonation).

[Chaos_Umbra]

Yep thought of this as well like others have said Aiming Systems Mod 0 would not only somewhat fix the main guns but would put the secondaries to a level where they are a key part of the ship which they are atm, but just so short range that they are unusable unless on any small tier 2 map.

[Ferry_25]

1 hour ago, Drunken_Jedi said:

Ugh... as if MM wasn't bad enough. Just got straight up team killed by some idiot in a German DD. Some people...

come on. Probably a newbe. I laughed torps at everything that moved when I was that green as well. I was so happy to have learned it more safe and efficient. Last week.

[Drunken_Jedi]

11 minutes ago, Ferry_25 said:

come on. Probably a newbe. I laughed torps at everything that moved when I was that green as well. I was so happy to have learned it more safe and efficient. Last week.

 

No excuse, unless you're certafiably retarded even new players will know that green = friendly red = baddie.

[Aragathor]

1 hour ago, Chaos_Umbra said:

Yep thought of this as well like others have said Aiming Systems Mod 0 would not only somewhat fix the main guns but would put the secondaries to a level where they are a key part of the ship which they are atm, but just so short range that they are unusable unless on any small tier 2 map.

 

I really like this idea, it's simple yet elegant, and also doesn't require too much work.

 

[Major_Damage225]

I second the idea of ASM0, 

would be the most efficient thing to do. 

It would be sweet if WG were to implement one predred per nation though, Mikasa feels a bit lonley 

[Aragathor]

Just now, Major_Damage225 said:

I second the idea of ASM0, 

would be the most efficient thing to do. 

It would be sweet if WG were to implement one predred per nation though, Mikasa feels a bit lonley 

 

Adding those ships would be great, especially since then every line could start at tier 2 (save for CVs). And there are enough classes to offer a  silver ship to every nation with battleships.

[Major_Damage225]

28 minutes ago, Aragathor said:

 

Adding those ships would be great, especially since then every line could start at tier 2 (save for CVs). And there are enough classes to offer a  silver ship to every nation with battleships.

I'd go so far as to add one predred BB to every nation and one protected cruiser aswell. 

It would be nice to have them, and i wanted SMS Blütcher but... cant have everything i supose 

Like a mini nassau isn it. 

[1MajorKoenig]

2 minutes ago, Major_Damage225 said:

I'd go so far as to add one predred BB to every nation and one protected cruiser aswell. 

It would be nice to have them, and i wanted SMS Blütcher but... cant have everything i supose 

Like a mini nassau isn it. 

 

SMS Blücher is a gorgeous ship!

[Ze_Reckless]

This might be an unpopular opinion but whatever. Do not change Mikasa's accuracy, it's fine. I haven't played many games with her but in my experience if you aim right you will get hits. Don't compare her to Amagi or Yamato, compare her to Kawachi, that dispersion isn't much different.

This ship requires good positioning from the beginning because you are so damn slow. Since experienced captains know how tier 2-3 battles play out they should have no problem finding that good positioning. Both HE and AP are really good, change ammo depending on the situation. And always remember this is a tier 2, you can't expect much of it.

 

I guess now it's time for me to bend over and grab my ankles?

[RUSSIANBlAS]

Meh I won this ship via that weekly mission awhile back.

I've literally played it once and never again, even wasted a spare 10 point captain for AFT.

 

She does look pretty cool however and really needs a crazy IJN skin like October Revolution and Texas with a 1905 commemoration flag too 

[puxflacet]

i agree that there has to be done something but i'm against preferential matchmaking. i dont like shrinking the pool more and more. also, although hms dreadnought made pre-dreadnoughts obsolete, that doesnt mean they were put out of service. they were still active during ww1 although assigned to auxiliary tasks. but they even fought at jutland. so i have no problem with mikasa meeting t3

what i would go for instead would be to make mikasa truly superior to t3 battleship in terms of close engagements, meaning:

• maybe slight buff for her secondaries - range between 4 - 5 km
• give her permanent bonus for ramming. she was built in era when ramming was still considered as an option and mikasa does have massive steel beak. 
  Spoiler

  

   

• maybe even consider to make her underwater torpedo tubes operational - with very short range (3km) and slow torpedos (30 - 40 knts) so that they will only useful for brawling

she is pretty useless at range (as she should be compared to dreadnoughts), so make her really formidable up close, guarding straits, hugging island - the kind of stuff you have to do with her anyway but currently her secondaries are just not enough for that job

dedicated brawler - thats the role which fits her most and imho the only way this ship can be further improved

 

making her 152mm primaries is not an option because that would be right from UP into OP - she would be just superbuffed st.louis and shred every cruiser and destroyer to pieces, even battleships (imagine the rant)

 

regarding her main armament - her guns are already more accurate than t3 battleships. they just feel worse because you have only 4 of them, so making them even more accurate is really not the way because they should not be so much better compare to dreadnoughts guns. also the reload is already heavily buffed because her guns shot 1 round per minute irl. so do not push the buffs to her main battery because she never will be able to compete with other battlehips at long range unless her main guns would behave utterly unnatural

[Major_Damage225]

I like the idea of a ram bonus, manual secondaries as awsome as it may be would make her too strong. 

(unless wg made a predred era tree and MM witch would be amazing but would be another game all together, but a chance of that happening is the same as getting a kongo as a yacht) 

Best option would be to add range to secondaries, 5/6km maxed out, and a tiny buff to main gun accuracy, frankly i tried with the main guns, bellive me i did but its soo wonky you have more chance to hit if you aim at the moon.

I love my Mikasa though, one pretty litle tub of fun. Time i visit the Q&A page. 

[Chaos_Umbra]

1 hour ago, Ze_Reckless said:

This might be an unpopular opinion but whatever. Do not change Mikasa's accuracy, it's fine. I haven't played many games with her but in my experience if you aim right you will get hits. Don't compare her to Amagi or Yamato, compare her to Kawachi, that dispersion isn't much different.

This ship requires good positioning from the beginning because you are so damn slow. Since experienced captains know how tier 2-3 battles play out they should have no problem finding that good positioning. Both HE and AP are really good, change ammo depending on the situation. And always remember this is a tier 2, you can't expect much of it.

 

I guess now it's time for me to bend over and grab my ankles?

 

Don't know where you got the Idea that the guns were accurate for a BB of tier 3, cause I had the shells from one turret miss a broadside BB at 6km one landed in front of the bow, the other behind the stern... so no they are absolutely crooked, the secondaries are more reliable for doing damage if you can get close enough to use them.

[Ze_Reckless]

52 minutes ago, Chaos_Umbra said:

Don't know where you got the Idea that the guns were accurate for a BB of tier 3

 

Kawachi has the same dispersion where 2 shells from one turret bracket a Kurfürst-sized gap, only because of the volume of shells you don't notice it that much. You get the same when comparing Bismarck to Gneisenau. 8 guns vs. 6 guns isn't a big difference but the Gneisenau just feels much more inaccurate.

[Vanhal]

8 hours ago, Major_Damage225 said:

It would be sweet if WG were to implement one predred per nation though, Mikasa feels a bit lonley 

 

Pls gib Potemkin. It's good looking, it's Russian, it's revolutionary, movie about it is still a true gem. Why it isn't here yet?

[AkosJaccik]

6 hours ago, Ze_Reckless said:

Kawachi has the same dispersion where 2 shells from one turret bracket a Kurfürst-sized gap, only because of the volume of shells you don't notice it that much. You get the same when comparing Bismarck to Gneisenau. 8 guns vs. 6 guns isn't a big difference but the Gneisenau just feels much more inaccurate.

 

Numerically that might be the case, but the Mikasa usually shoots at much smaller enemies, and most of the time due to the abysmal firing angles and rotation speed with a single turret (losing 75% of firepower compared to a usual full Kawa-broadside, while the one turret loss at the Bis->Gneisenau is of 25%). _{Plus Gneisenau gets to club T5 while the Mikasa is never top tier by definition.} So while I have no problem admitting that on paper the Mikasa works, but if you put her into context, the picture is horrific. Main battery hit ratio is around ~27% globally, lets be generous and say that on average 1,5 turrets shoot per minute (once a single, once all two), about every third shell hits, so we get two-three hits per minute. But of course, the MHB is fine, as there was only so many shells to work around to begin with. I have zero problem with keeping the damage numbers, but if we achieve that by doubling the accuracy but halvig the alpha, suddenly the ship feels like doing something even though it produces the same numbers.

I also agree with you that the HE is very much fine, but in my subjective experience I have very low luck with the AP, the dispersion makes it a complete high-risk lottery against small targets, and it very often shatters on bigger targets. This is also fine by me, historically she rocked with "HE secs", and again: her tragedy in wows is that her numbers might look just fine.

The ship still isn't.

Making the secondaries their primary weapon, giving her ASM0, turning up main battery accuracy and secondary battery accuracy and range while drastically cutting down the alpha or even fire chance, these things would all mean that she feels better gameplay-wise while not becoming the horror of T2. Personally, I'd go with secondaries, as the historical touch, but any port in a storm.

[Exocet6951]

1 hour ago, AkosJaccik said:

 

Making the secondaries their primary weapon, giving her ASM0, turning up main battery accuracy and secondary battery accuracy and range while drastically cutting down the alpha or even fire chance, these things would all mean that she feels better gameplay-wise while not becoming the horror of T2. Personally, I'd go with secondaries, as the historical touch, but any port in a storm.

 

Alas, WG has said that they won't buff secondaries, simply because bots would just steam forward and blast enemies with secondaries for easy farm. On tier 2. 

...

Not sure why that's still an acceptable excuse, with the Tirpitz and all, but whatever.

 

Maybe one day, if WG ever implements manual secondary control for some pre-dreadnought types.