IJN DD Sisters Nerf Them

[MacFergus]

Really WG at a time where Premier ships are getting clobbered with a nerf bat some justified some not how the hell do you just ignore the T5 IJN Sisters , Kami R , Fujin , Kami  , I've seen people complaining that prem ships should not be better than there silver cousins and then you get these three monstrosities , I've had a bee in my bonnet for quite a bit about these ships lets look at the facts shall we.

 

Taking the Kami K as an example as its had more battles on the EU server and is the lowest out of the sisters.

 

WR 55.32% , Average Frag 1.8

 

Now lets look at its silver line equivalent.

 

Minekaze =  WR 50.36% , Average Frag 1.3 pre nerf and after

 

Mutsaki =  WR 48.84% , Average Frag 0.82

 

What was it WG said about the MK and Belfast they felt those ships were over-performing so wtf are these ships doing no I get it now WG cant see there stats cause there invisible

 

 

 

Clearly op , Clearly over performing , Clearly being ignored by WG. 

[Ghostychan]

If the Kamikaze is so strong, just buy one - oh you can't? why not? Because they were already removed from sale?

 

Standard practice if a ship is over performing: remove from sale, which the Kamikaze sisters were a long time ago.

[EsaTuunanen]

3 minutes ago, MacFergus said:

Really WG at a time where Premier ships are getting clobbered with a nerf bat

Belfast is basically the cruiser least affected by change.

Because use of radar doesn't show in anyway to ships outside its range there's no way for DD to know if Belfast recently used its radar and there could be actually slight survival chances from going that close.

Cruiser again would take rather major HE damage/fires while pushing close.

And lots of BBs don't have any speed to push.

[EmilyFara]

WG doesn't nerf premiums. They just remove them from the store. Which they did with the Kami and clones. Just like the Gremy and Nicolai. While the Gremy might come back to sale later because of the global stealth nerf. The rest will not come back since they are too strong. People who have the toys, keep the toys. But no new toys will be sold (you can win them in a container though)

[Shagulon]

There isn't that much difference between the Kamikaze and the Minekaze.

 

You can't always use stats alone as a reason to nerf, otherwise you would be nerfing the ARP myoko ships, as they out perform the standard Myoko (they are in fact identical)

[Benaulim]

The only obvious advantage of the Kamikaze R is the speed of her torpedos.That only marginally affects her opness though simply because you can usually expect a maxed out captain taking a break from tier 10 on her, read an experienced puppeteer. Meanwhile plenty of battlehships and cruisers commanded by new players keep sailing in straight lines and the enemy destroyers are trying to torp you instead of using their guns. Actually it's in no way satisfying when you're top tier unless there is a hostile Kami you can challenge and eventually sink. By the way ... the Gremy you apparently love to play has an average WR of 55,70% ...

[El2aZeR]

You must be not afraid of gulag to demand nerf to glorious premium boat comrade.

[Major_Damage225]

Well if theyd leave the Minekaze alone in the first place, Kamy & company wouldnt be OP. 

 

Ps: leave kami alone, its the only ship that has the pure IJN flavour from the olden days. 

[Ubertron_X]

Please keep in mind that all premium ships will accept any captain of the same nation. And while I give my 19pt Shimakaze captain a spin in my Kamikaze R once in a while I think that this very captain had like 7 skill points when I actively leveled the Minekaze.

 

So comparing silver and premium ships performance is not as easy as you might think.

 

 

[dasCKD]

You know, when she was first released the Kamikaze was inferior or equal to the Minekaze in every way. Even back then, she still eclipsed the Minekaze in performance. The Kamikaze simply remained unchanged whereas the Minekaze was hit with nerf bat after nerf bat.

[MacFergus]

1 hour ago, stewie533 said:

WG doesn't nerf premiums. They just remove them from the store. Which they did with the Kami and clones. Just like the Gremy and Nicolai. While the Gremy might come back to sale later because of the global stealth nerf. The rest will not come back since they are too strong. People who have the toys, keep the toys. But no new toys will be sold (you can win them in a container though)

Indeed but at the same time the jap DDs got there torp nerf the sisters did not , However the poor Grem and Blys did when they did the SF removal .

1 hour ago, Shagulon said:

There isn't that much difference between the Kamikaze and the Minekaze.

 

You can't always use stats alone as a reason to nerf, otherwise you would be nerfing the ARP myoko ships, as they out perform the standard Myoko (they are in fact identical)

The Minekaze stats are pre nerf mainly which proberly adds to there effectiveness.

42 minutes ago, Major_Damage225 said:

Well if theyd leave the Minekaze alone in the first place, Kamy & company wouldnt be OP. 

 

Ps: leave kami alone, its the only ship that has the pure IJN flavour from the olden days. 

Well lets be honest I loved the pre torp jap DDs it was WASD or lack of it from BB drivers that caused that torp nerf.

[EmilyFara]

1 minute ago, MacFergus said:

Indeed but at the same time the jap DDs got there torp nerf the sisters did not , However the poor Grem and Blys did when they did the SF removal .

[...]

Because the Grem and Blys have been hit by a game wide mechanic change. The IJN DDs have been hit by directed statistics nerf. The one affects all ships in the game, the other only a line. No ship is immune to a game wide change. And premiums are (generally) immune to ship nerfs.

[Major_Damage225]

7 minutes ago, MacFergus said:

 

Well lets be honest I loved the pre torp jap DDs it was WASD or lack of it from BB drivers that caused that torp nerf.

Soo mutch this, though today you can still oneshot a BB from 10clicks with a ijn boat, some people dont know how to use a keyboard 

[MacFergus]

2 minutes ago, stewie533 said:

Because the Grem and Blys have been hit by a game wide mechanic change. The IJN DDs have been hit by directed statistics nerf. The one affects all ships in the game, the other only a line. No ship is immune to a game wide change. And premiums are (generally) immune to ship nerfs.

 

Yes that's a fair comment I can fully understand that , Even so I think the stats a very condemning of WG policy of keeping prem ships inline with silver ships comparison just because they have removed said ships still doesn't make it right imho , The Mitsuki isn't even in the same league as the sisters where it barely manages to scratch a 1 kill ratio , Is it time to buff IJN DDs ?

[EmilyFara]

Just now, MacFergus said:

 

Yes that's a fair comment I can fully understand that , Even so I think the stats a very condemning of WG policy of keeping prem ships inline with silver ships comparison just because they have removed said ships still doesn't make it right imho , The Mitsuki isn't even in the same league as the sisters where it barely manages to scratch a 1 kill ratio , Is it time to buff IJN DDs ?

Oh, I am completely COMPLETELY for re-buffing the line. I never liked playing them. And I probably never will, even if they buff them. But they are my favorite food, and I don't want to see them extinct. I want the people who have fun with that type of ship to have fun with it and play it. 

 

I do not want the Kami and entourage to get nerfed to Minekaze levels. I want the Minekaze to be buffed back to (nearly) Kami levels. The Kami and stuff are strong, but with the latest DD releases and upcoming releases I think the Kami is actually quite balanced. The reason why you see the Kami and stuff getting incredibly high scores is because only the older players (and probably more experienced players) have her.

[Verdius]

10 minutes ago, MacFergus said:

 

Yes that's a fair comment I can fully understand that , Even so I think the stats a very condemning of WG policy of keeping prem ships inline with silver ships comparison just because they have removed said ships still doesn't make it right imho , The Mitsuki isn't even in the same league as the sisters where it barely manages to scratch a 1 kill ratio , Is it time to buff IJN DDs ?

 

It has been that time since WG nerfbatted all their torps over a year ago and batted some more with the line split.

 

They used to have the longest ranged torps but they nerfed that while buffing USN torps, not to mention torp concealment nerfs. They used to have higher HE alpha and firechance but WG nerfed that as well and gave them faster RoF. They basically made them more like USN DDs. They gutted the entire playstyle and niche that they had.

(Also I am still salty with what WG did to T8 Fubuki which was by far my favourite ship in the line. It had good longer ranged torps (15km iirc) and due to 3x triple launchers had shorter reloads and was quite flexible in its role, which I miss on the current Kagerou)

[ColonelPete]

The sisters are and were not too strong.

Do not ignore the premium effect on stats, which have nothing to do with the ships capabilities!

[darky_fighter]

6 hours ago, MacFergus said:

Minekaze =  WR 50.36% , Average Frag 1.3 pre nerf and after

 

Pre nerf and after. That is the point. Even the strong pre nerf Minekaze (which was stronger then the Kamikaze because she is faster) had much worse stats then the Kamikaze. So you compare ships which have a different player base.

[Hedgehog1963]

6 hours ago, Ghostychan said:

If the Kamikaze is so strong, just buy one - oh you can't? why not? Because they were already removed from sale?

 

Standard practice if a ship is over performing: remove from sale, which the Kamikaze sisters were a long time ago.

 

I'll be very surprised if Fujin is not on sale again soon.  It is a Halloween camo'd ship.

[darky_fighter]

5 minutes ago, Hedgehog1963 said:

 

I'll be very surprised if Fujin is not on sale again soon.  It is a Halloween camo'd ship.

 

Definitely not. There are official statements:

 

Quote

Termination of sales of EM Kamikaze and Fujin

 

https://forum.worldofwarships.ru/topic/74946-прекращение-продаж-эм-камикадзе-и-фуджин/#comment-3026420

 

You can use google translate.

[StringWitch]

5 hours ago, dasCKD said:

You know, when she was first released the Kamikaze was inferior or equal to the Minekaze in every way.

 

Not so. Kamikaze had and still has better torpedo launch angles and gun rotation speed. Personally I preferred her for these.

[RAHJAILARI]

8 hours ago, Major_Damage225 said:

Soo mutch this, though today you can still oneshot a BB from 10clicks with a ijn boat, some people dont know how to use a keyboard 

KEYBOARD??? wHATCHAMACALLIT??

 

Although, to be fair I bumped into a BB player just yesterday who HAD learned to WASD, and indeed managed to doge many of my shots quite nicely. (prolly also invested some skill points on Vigilance too).. However, the downside of his glory was that despite of chasing my Nurnberg throughout the match he apparently had not managed to land any shots on anyone during the entire game (slow turret traverse etc...), since he finished the last on the opposing team. Go figure....

 

But yeah... As for the topic. I do not see why Kami or Fujin should be nerfed or even why Mine was. i have both Fujin and Mine and actually I feel Mine is better, since it is faster (which is odd, since they are basically the same ship with just a different camo but perhaps just the sheer weight of all the extra paint then). Of course there is the slight difference in torps stats too, but in neither do I manage to land any torp hits if the BB of my dreams actually manages to use his rudder at any point. Luckily MOST of them are not adept...

 

Though I prefer DD, I also play BB's occasionally and only once it has happened that I have been sunk due to taking a torp from a DD (many times due to bloody CV's tho). BUT maybe that's only because being a preferred DD player, I know what to expect...

 

But Yeah, I still suck at BB's, not because every other ship is OP and MM is rigged and both should be nerfed to he*l, but (repeat after me) simply because: OMG-I-suck-at-BB! Sad, but true, one day though - I shall improve...

 

I do remember one traumatized BB telling us just recently, when opposing team had one Kami that we should kill it or lose the game. However he himself was then killed by a particularly troublesome and destructive Clemson (he made Krakens before I finally got him) while the vaunted Kami was the first to die (I am sure, I got "first blood" on that one) while sitting in his smoke like a bloody rubber duck and allowing my Emile to get close, hydro and torp him there like a complete dork.

[RamirezKurita]

8 hours ago, Ghostychan said:

If the Kamikaze is so strong, just buy one - oh you can't? why not? Because they were already removed from sale?

 

Standard practice if a ship is over performing: remove from sale, which the Kamikaze sisters were a long time ago.

 

That doesn't solve the issue unless they also remove them from the game itself, it simply limits how many players can proceed to wreck the balance of the game. Solutions should always take precedence over damage mitigation, and simply damage mitigation should never be the end of an issue.

 

If they won't ever nerf premiums, it leaves WG with two real choices to maintain a healthy game: They can buff up every single silver ship to match the premiums and accept that power creep is a necessary price to pay for overall balance, or they can introduce global changes that are specifically targeted to bring down the premiums.

[Azrael_Ashemdion]

7 hours ago, Benaulim said:

The only obvious advantage of the Kamikaze R is the speed of her torpedos.

 

And the not-so-obvious advantage of the KR is that as a result of the age of her removal, the only people driving them have been around a while and probably have a good idea of what to do with her.  Which would perhaps go a long way to describe why there's a 3% difference between the KR and the silver grinder. 

 

  Az

[RAHJAILARI]

Attaboy my friend Azrael_Ashemdion that's exactly what I've always been saying. Still like my Minekaze too...