New smoke rules and how very few actually know them?

[Thracen]

So I'm trying out the new smoke, works fine so far but it's hard to judge because I still haven't been spotted under the new rules.

I think this is in part down to those less informed players simply not knowing. Further evidence, BBs rolling into smoke within 10km of enemies close to death and continuing to shoot. I wouldn't mind but when all that secondary and primary fire is coming in at the spotted BB in the middle of my little Fiji smoke can hit me and bloody well hurts!

 

Frankly I'm reasonably sure it's going to take months for some players to figure out why they are spotted and until then, I'm back to tanking for BBs in my CCs in smoke!

 

Anybody else notice this sort of stuff?

[juanxmar]

12 minutes ago, Thracen said:

So I'm trying out the new smoke, works fine so far but it's hard to judge because I still haven't been spotted under the new rules.

I think this is in part down to those less informed players simply not knowing. Further evidence, BBs rolling into smoke within 10km of enemies close to death and continuing to shoot. I wouldn't mind but when all that secondary and primary fire is coming in at the spotted BB in the middle of my little Fiji smoke can hit me and bloody well hurts!

 

Frankly I'm reasonably sure it's going to take months for some players to figure out why they are spotted and until then, I'm back to tanking for BBs in my CCs in smoke!

 

Anybody else notice this sort of stuff?

 

Since DG is catering to the lowest common denominator, your "months" prediction is probably off by years...

[wilkatis_LV]

A few months? 2 years later most potatoes still will be clueless that the smoke has changed

 

Anyway, if someone doesn't yet know how the smoke works now here is a video explaning it (be aware that sound quality is crap lol)

Spoiler

 

 

[DFens_666]

Its very hard to change your behaviour just like that one day to another. I think many ppl dont even know that they made changed to the smoke detection mechanics. Noone tells u directly ingame, u need to "look" for it.

First match with Neptune i was confused too at first. I knew a DD was close but behind islands. Suddenly i was detected i thought he was within 2km. Then i was like nope, must have the module which gives u 3 km. Then  i was like, ooh right, the smoke detection

Left the Smoke spotted him at 5,5km. He Smoked himself up, but i was still detected ofc after firing at him. I went behind an island wait until his smoke was running out, charged in and killed him after that. While it might have been positive for him to spot me at first, in the end it was bad as he was kinda trapped there afterwards against a RN CL.

In the same map (hotspot) at the behinning our Des Moines wanted a smoke going towards B from our DD. Well they did that and guess who died within 2 mins? Yep, the DM... ofc when he gets spotted from the moon within the smoke...

[BeauNidl3]

1 hour ago, Thracen said:

So I'm trying out the new smoke, works fine so far but it's hard to judge because I still haven't been spotted under the new rules.

I think this is in part down to those less informed players simply not knowing. Further evidence, BBs rolling into smoke within 10km of enemies close to death and continuing to shoot. I wouldn't mind but when all that secondary and primary fire is coming in at the spotted BB in the middle of my little Fiji smoke can hit me and bloody well hurts!

 

Frankly I'm reasonably sure it's going to take months for some players to figure out why they are spotted and until then, I'm back to tanking for BBs in my CCs in smoke!

 

Anybody else notice this sort of stuff?

 

A lot of players don't read the forums, Reddit or Faceache and probably haven't even looked at the news in the game client. There are plenty of uninformed people who may eventually get the idea of the new mechanics, whether they realise what they mean is a different matter.

 

On a similar subject I've not tested, but if you're in a ship with secondaries and they fire when you're in a smoke screen does that affect your spottability? In the game client and notes I've seen it mentions main guns only. Some KM BB's have an absolute storm of secondary fire, I'd be intrigued to know if anyone has tested. Maybe I'll talk a few guys into testing in the training room.

[HMS_Antelope]

Well done WG British cruisers are really rewarding to play now with there thick armour and smoke and shoot tactic, I'm sure it's supposed to help Cruisers out and not make an entire line very difficult to play still at least you didn't make a stupid decision to make a gimmick on the Royal Navy Battleship line oh wait yep you screwed that up too.  Good job you have no competition or you may have an NA server like population.

[ForlornSailor]

I have only one thing to say: Wether you like or dislike the new smoke-detection-rule: You just dont change a core game meachnic, that everyone is beeing used to after such a long time. period.

[Thracen]

I think that even the biggest of BB babies will figure out that they keep getting detected when they shoot in smoke eventually. I wonder if we'll see any thread appear on the forum asking for help with it?

[juanxmar]

1 minute ago, Thracen said:

I think that even the biggest of BB babies will figure out that they keep getting detected when they shoot in smoke eventually. I wonder if we'll see any thread appear on the forum asking for help with it?

 

You must be new around here...

 

Expect the thread soon ™

[The_Tyke]

1 hour ago, BeauNidl3 said:

On a similar subject I've not tested, but if you're in a ship with secondaries and they fire when you're in a smoke screen does that affect your spottability?

Yes.

 

Caught me out when it happened.

[Shirakami_Kon]

2 hours ago, Thracen said:

I think this is in part down to those less informed players simply not knowing. Further evidence, BBs rolling into smoke within 10km of enemies close to death and continuing to shoot.

 

I can say that at least a Bismarck with which I got Arsonist today while she was in the safety of the smoke of his pal Kutuzov didn't know about it. I hope he does now.

[Aotearas]

I for one am looking forward to the new weekly (perhaps daily at the starting phase) forum threads about "Smoke not working" and hackusations.

 

I mean, we're still getting "wtf repair costs even though I never took a hit" threads despite the economy change being a year past now. And the smoke change ought to be a bit more intrusive ...

[Loran_Battle]

I've already seen a BB try to hide in a smokescreen next to me while he was firing happily away. He tried using the smokescreen, because he went to a full stop inside the smoke. He died a minute later, probably wondering how everyone was hitting him :).

 

But yeah, I have to keep reminding myself as well. And I have no clue why we don't have pop-ups after big patches like this ingame saying "this important game mechanic changed!" Though probably that will still not be enough for most players... (yeah I have a REALLY low view on "normal" players). As Ao says above, most players do not even know game mechanics that were changed over a year ago.

[McCracken666]

4 hours ago, ForlornSailor said:

I have only one thing to say: Wether you like or dislike the new smoke-detection-rule: You just dont change a core game meachnic, that everyone is beeing used to after such a long time. period.

 

I agree.

 

I stil have to get used to, but so far i really dont think it makes it a better game, been having around 15 games today. It feels weird not being able to help team mates as i used to do when commanding my destroyers.

 

Also the smoke detect rules for individual ships makes little sense.

 

Etc: T9   neptune  : 6,6 km detection range when firing from smoke

        T10 minotaur: 5.4 km.

 

They both share the same caliber guns, and are about the same sizes from what i can see in port. So why is the minotaur detect range better from smokes ?.

 

 

Destroyers:

 

T9   Z46          2,8

T10 Gearing   2,8

T10 Grozovoi  2,9

T10 Z52          2,9

T8 Kiev           3,5

 

 

Both germans use same caliber, but because the Z52 is a bit larger its the detect range is longer  ?

 

 

Grozovoi vs Z-52. The Grozovoi has larger guns, ship is larger, but the detect range when firing from smoke is the same as Z52 ?

And what about the Kiev, same gun caliber as Grozovoi, but 600 meters penalty to the kiev, for what ? Kiev is smaller than Grozovoi aswell.

 

 

 

I cannot make any sense of this.

 

Maybe its better to make it a bit more simple for greater understanding...maybe make all DDs one detect range when firing from smoke, another for all cruisers and another for all BBs, instead of individual ratings for each,

Really think as it is now it makes the game more complicated - and not in a good way.

 

(maybe its even better to completly revert the smoke changes, but i bet thats not going to happen)

 

 

[Aragathor]

13 minutes ago, McCracken666 said:

 

I agree.

 

I stil have to get used to, but so far i really dont think it makes it a better game, been having around 15 games today. It feels weird not being able to help team mates as i used to do when commanding my destroyers.

 

Also the smoke detect rules for individual ships makes little sense.

 

Etc: T9   neptune  : 6,6 km detection range when firing from smoke

        T10 minotaur: 5.4 km.

 

They both share the same caliber guns, and are about the same sizes from what i can see in port. So why is the minotaur detect range better from smokes ?.

 

 

Destroyers:

 

T9   Z46          2,8

T10 Gearing   2,8

T10 Grozovoi  2,9

T10 Z52          2,9

T8 Kiev           3,5

 

 

Both germans use same caliber, but because the Z52 is a bit larger its the detect range is longer  ?

 

 

Grozovoi vs Z-52. The Grozovoi has larger guns, ship is larger, but the detect range when firing from smoke is the same as Z52 ??

 

 

 

I cannot make any sense of this.

 

Maybe its better to make it a bit more simple for greater understanding...maybe make all DDs one detect range when firing from smoke, another for all cruisers and another for all BBs, instead of all theese individual ratings you try to keep in mind.

really think as it is now it makes the game more complicated - and not in a good way.

 

(or maybe its even better to completly revert the smoke changes, but i bet thats not going to happen)

 

 

 

The whole smoke change makes little sense. And I'm quite sure WG employees have no idea what they did.

The whole detection system is so arbitrary it hurts. Just look at the Emerald and Leander. The Emerald has a worse detection rating in smoke compared to the Leander, even though it has less guns of the same caliber.

Right now I'm forcing myself to stop playing RN CLs and camp farther away from the caps. I also decided to play less cruisers in Random. A painful decision.

 

[Thracen]

Oh I'm all for the change, I think UK CLs needed a little more interaction during their smokes and charging all smokes whoever is in it is now easier, if only a little where some ships are concerned. (even the plus 1km amounts to a free detection upgrade). I think getting blapped by a T9-10 BB you can/could do nothing about is less likely is also a good thing.

[Aragathor]

1 hour ago, Thracen said:

I think UK CLs needed a little more interaction during their smokes

 

Yeah, because getting deleted by BBs with spotter planes, torp spreads from DDs, and hydro from cruisers, is just not enough interaction...

[TheIdesOfMarch93]

About the possibility of German BBs us using smoke and relying solely on their secondaries without getting spotted, I've tried it last night with a Bismarck and melted two DDs in the process. Smoke camping and providing fire support can still work to a very limited extent if you're using a German BB. Also take into consideration that a BB can still sit in smoke and shoot at long range targets without being spotted. But it kind of defeats the purpose since I could easily do long range gunnery duels without needing to be smoked up anyway. 

 

Thank you WG for utterly neutering such a core game mechanic. You thought this was a team based game? Well. Not anymore it isn't. Destroyers happily bragging that "we don't have to help the team with our smoke anymore" when they're contesting caps. Alright then, you'll go in without backup because of your selfishness and you'll be first to die. I'm perfectly alright to potentially lose matches this way. Just makes it clearer who to report ingame for poor play. 

[darky_fighter]

40 minutes ago, TheIdesOfMarch93 said:

Destroyers happily bragging that "we don't have to help the team with our smoke anymore" when they're contesting caps. Alright then, you'll go in without backup because of your selfishness and you'll be first to die. I'm perfectly alright to potentially lose matches this way. Just makes it clearer who to report ingame for poor play. 

 

I am a main DD player and I don't know if this new smoke mechanic is good or bad for my win rate. I have smoked BB teammates in random matches but it is almost useless now:

(1) He can only repair.

(2) Most random players are casual players who don't inform themselves. So they shoot when they are in my smoke. Results: (a) My smoke charge is totally wasted (also the 3 points captain skill "Superintendent") and (b) the smoke cool down time starts. I can't use smoke and this can be dangerous when enemy DDs attack me.

So don't blame DD players. It is better and more effective when stealthy RN cruisers get the DD smoke or when DD players use the smoke for themselves. Winning in WoWs is a matter of effective playing.

[El2aZeR]

Unlike the service cost change this one is much more noticeable, so it shouldn't take quite as long for the playerbase to adapt, or at least it shouldn't with a respectable amount of average skill. However since the average playerbase in this game is abysmally bad I guess it's going to take another year at least until even the last potato has realized smoke has been changed.

 

On a different note this was a hilarious buff to CVs as I thought it would be, though.

[Verdius]

2 hours ago, McCracken666 said:

Also the smoke detect rules for individual ships makes little sense.

 

They both share the same caliber guns, and are about the same sizes from what i can see in port. So why is the minotaur detect range better from smokes ?.

 

Grozovoi vs Z-52. The Grozovoi has larger guns, ship is larger, but the detect range when firing from smoke is the same as Z52 ?

And what about the Kiev, same gun caliber as Grozovoi, but 600 meters penalty to the kiev, for what ? Kiev is smaller than Grozovoi aswell.

 

I cannot make any sense of this.

 

Still not as egregious as Conqeuror having better concealment than the bloody Hipper.

[P2Win]

Seen a yamato hide in smoke full broadside...take a shot and me and when i returned fire he ate 4 citadel from my montana. Mind you...he spent all game accusing me of hack lol..."I am hiding in smoke and you see me!"

[AmazingBeaver]

2 hours ago, McCracken666 said:

I cannot make any sense of this.

 

 

It's Russia dude

 

 

[Aragathor]

55 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

Unlike the service cost change this one is much more noticeable, so it shouldn't take quite as long for the playerbase to adapt, or at least it shouldn't with a respectable amount of average skill. However since the average playerbase in this game is abysmally bad I guess it's going to take another year at least until even the last potato has realized smoke has been changed.

 

On a different note this was a hilarious buff to CVs as I thought it would be, though.

 

Just had a game in which a guy driving a Leningrad declared "this bad game is getting worse". Mind you he used some pretty strong expletives instead of "bad and worse".

 

In that same game an Edinburgh driver smoked up withing 8km from a Tirpitz, which charged him. The Tirpitz avoided the pitiful 3 torps and then auto-detected the poor Edinburgh. 8x380mm broadside at 5.4 km, need I say more?

Remember the RN CLs are "well-balanced in general" according to WG.

[SinkTheOthersNotMe]

Vey simple, when I play a DD -> I never get anywhere close to a RN CL simply because as soon as I spot him he knows I am somewhere near him (under 5km) and he simply has to turn around, exit his smoke, spot me and blow me out of the water (before he, in turn, maybe gets sunk too)

 

so perfect free 'alert' for some ships