0.6.12 Update 0.6.12 Feedback - Smoke mechanic change - Overall

[Kandly]

Hi guys!

 

Please leave your overall feedback regarding the smoke mechanic change in this topic.

 

Cheers,

Kandly 

[DocStrangeFruit]

This is the stupidest idea since someone thought the Graf Zeppelin was balanced ready for public consumption.

 

Way to finally kill the game for anything other than a BB.

[Z_OnkelE]

I have still no idea why this change was necessary, must be for whatever reason. Thankfully for most parts this does not affect my gameplay. But I may start to sit back farther away in my battleships from now on because pushing up to any cap edge does not benefit my any more. Instead it punishes my good intentions (at least that is the case for random battles) and even the toughest ship tends to struggle under heavy focus fire (because of course no-one else is spotted in that area).

 

Edit:

Quote

Way to finally kill the game for anything other than a BB.

 

The opposite is the case: for most ships the new spotting ranges from smoke are pretty much negligible when played as before (you wouldn't want to rush in to 3 km away from an enemy in you Minotaur, would you?!).

[StringWitch]

Do the stats bear this gun calibre progression out when it comes to cruisers? Do heavy cruisers actually tank more and do more damage? I don't have that impression from playing, so making only light cruisers suitable for smoke looks nothing more than arbitrary.

 

Also I feel that camo should affect smoke detectability when firing. Currently it doesn't, according to port stats.

[Flaming_Bunny]

So, the update to the smoke system was to prevent camping in smoke.

The only thing it will change is ships will simply camp in smoke further away from the flags due to the greater detection range now.

 

In my opinion this change is kind of stupid.

And yes, I play destroyers mostly.

 

/Me

[Ilya_Wolf]

i would like a bit of clarification on how the new detection mechanics effect ships that are not inside the smoke but behind it, as we know smoke puffs can break line of sight, unless there is a plane in the air to spot it feels like all BB need to do now is park behind (but not inside!!) the smoke for similar smokey camping.

From my limited ingame experience so far drawing nice long lines of smoke it seems like this is working...

 

I think the BB nerf was overkill, maybe 10 or 12km or something would have been more sensible.

 

With these changes massively impacting how detection works can we maybe get a reduction in gun bloom time??

While i kinda agree stopping the 3 battleships and bunch of cruisers all bundling into a smoke and being untouchable (well sorta..) was a bad mechanic i feel this was the wrong way to go about it

This has had a severe negative impact on the value of smoke as a recovery tool for allied ships to temporarily hide and escape/survive.

 

Why not make being in smoke have a similar effect to cyclones where your ability to radio/target ships is severely hampered?

 

There has to be a better solution than... this..

[DarthB0B0]

Hmmmmmm.. A few games in RN and frankly.. A sledgehammer to crack a nut of WG's own making.. So the new tactics appear to be lets rush smoke or else camp and smoke further out.. A great way to encourage someone to push up... Oh wait...

[Kais_S012]

whom ever came up with this mechanic change should be sacked

 

while the RN cruisers are far from unplayable, they need some serious attention to make them viable again
increase the range, give them Destroyer smoke, (so you can actually lay smoke screens instead of struggling to decide on 1 puff of smoke or 2) reduce the firing arc, increase shell velocity or get rid or the inferior SAP and give them good old HE and AP, I dont care which but make them worth using again

[BombsAway]

Dumbest change of 2017.

 

It does nothing against DDs besides make them unable to support their team (the entire point of smoke, at least originally).

It does very little against BBs outside of the god-awful competitive play, since BBs rarely get smoked in public games anyway.

It penalizes cruisers of all types, the class that is already the LEAST PLAYED in the game (besides those mythical unicorns known to sling planes).

It severely penalizes RN cruisers, which rely on their already terrible smoke to scrape by.

 

This patch is a net buff to battleships and a direct nerf to all cruisers.

If you want people to only play BBs and [gunboat] DDs you're doing a fine job, wargaming.

[_Graf___Zahl_]

the smoke "changes" are a new lie of wargaming!

played a battle, 4.7 km disctance between my ship and enemeis bismarck and moskwa, this 2 ship was BEHIND a smokescreen, around 1 km distance. by firing they main guns was NOT showing up this ships, and they was seen me all times by using my main guns.

the "smoke "changes" are fully bugged and doesnt work correct!!!!

 

[_Flyto_]

I don't have a problem with the change in principle, though some ships probably need their visibility adjusting. But there's been another, more subtle, nerf to smoke at the same time - possibly intended, but I suspect as a side-effect.

 

Imagine that I fire from smoke (far enough away to remain unspotted), and then one second later leave the smoke.

Before this change, my visibility would have been the same as if I had not fired.

After this change, my visibility for the 19 seconds after I leave the smoke will be my full no-smoke just-fired max visibility.

This does not make intuitive sense.

 

This is a substantial nerf to smoke, because if one does not want to be spotted upon leaving the smoke one has to stop shooting 20 seconds before leaving it, or before it runs out.

 

Two suggestions:

EITHER

1. Consider rebalancing smoke durations so that people can account for this.

OR

2. Amend things so that upon leaving smoke, having just fired, a ship's visibility is whichever is the greater of (a) their standard best stealth range, or (b) their spotting range having fired in smoke.

 

I favour (2) because it makes far more intuitive sense. Having to plan ahead for the shot that you fired 15 seconds in the past suddenly making you more visible on exiting smoke is a tad silly ;-)

[Flaming_Bunny]

6 hours ago, _Flyto_ said:

 

This is a substantial nerf to smoke, because if one does not want to be spotted upon leaving the smoke one has to stop shooting 20 seconds before leaving it, or before it runs out.

 

That is not entirely correct.

If you are unspotted while shooting in the smoke, there is no timer for detection range when leaving the smoke.

You can exit right away as if you did not shoot at all.

 

The 20 seconds only matter if you were spotted in the first place.

 

/Me

[_Flyto_]

6 hours ago, Rowboat_Cop said:

That is not entirely correct.

If you are unspotted while shooting in the smoke, there is no timer for detection range when leaving the smoke.

You can exit right away as if you did not shoot at all.

 

The 20 seconds only matter if you were spotted in the first place.

 

/Me

 

After some testing just now, you're quite right. I must have screwed up when I thought it worked this way before. So please ignore this thread, Everything Is Fine :-)

[Admiral_Chunder]

It's absolute bollocks frankly. I want a refund for the premium camos on my RN cruisers please.

One DD rushes my smoke, I fire at him and four enemy ships I have never seen and that were not spotted on the minimap at all open fire on my Mino and delete me before I can get off a second salvo.

[klemi007]

My Neptune is useless now. Cheers WG, for *Edited yet another line, glad i could provide all the *Edited grind and crap. Just to be all totally useless now.

[Deckeru_Maiku]

The new mechanic makes ships outside of the smoke for ships inside the smoke as soon as they fire and are within their "smoke gun bloom" range. Which is utterly stupid.

 

Example:

BB with smoke gun bloom of 15 km, DD in smoke

 

BB (not shooting) <-10 km -> { DD in smoke } = result is that BB is invisible for DD

BB (shooting) <- 10 km -> { DD in smoke } = result is, that the BB is visible for the DD, even if there is not other ship with LOS to the BB

 

BB (shooting) <- 10 km -> { same team DD in smoke } <- 3 km -> { opposite team DD in smoke } <- 10 km -> opposite Team BB (not shooting) = result (I guess...) the shooting BB is visible to the opposite team DD, as it's smoke gun bloom reaches out to the opposite team's DD. Therefor it is also visible to the opposite team's BB although that one is outside of the 15 smoke gun bloom due to spotting mechanics?!?

 

I'm enjoying playing DDs and RN Cruisers, but the above example looks extremely stupid to me...

[ConstraUD]

Khabarovsk spotting range after shooting in smoke: 4.1km

Grozovoi spotting range after shooting in smoke: 2.9km
Same ship-type and same guns

[_CaptainPrice]

i dont want to say but this update is *Edited.there no needs for these changes u guys are ruining a nice game, you guys are destroying your game.smoke is a part of game i dont know why u guys are doing this.

 

 

[ColorsOfRainbows]

On 19.10.2017 at 10:36 AM, Dr_Strangefruit said:

This is the stupidest idea since someone thought the Graf Zeppelin was balanced ready for public consumption.

 

Way to finally kill the game for anything other than a BB.

 

it is of course exaclty the opposite

 

it is the BEST idea and best patch since ever and its a nice way to NERF this smoke camping BB while at same time not affect DD at all and nealry not affect any dd cruisers (NO! one wants a moscba in smoke)

 

u even know what the change make dude ?

[ColorsOfRainbows]

9 hours ago, Waqas_Bajwa_destroyer said:

i dont want to say but this update is *Edited.there no needs for these changes u guys are ruining a nice game, you guys are destroying your game.smoke is a part of game i dont know why u guys are doing this.

 

 

 

because in smoke camping BB was horribel ...

 

this makes me soo happy best patch ever

[Tigdam]

These changes are too drastic for most cruisers and battleships. It just makes things more difficult and no in a good way. Another thing is wargaming shun carriers with this update, this was the perfect change to show carrier players that wargaming actually cares about them and instead of allowing anti aircraft fire to reduce their concealment you ignore it all together. So a cruiser with 6 inch guns can shoot at another ship and be spotted but if those 6/5/4 inch guns are pointed towards the sky sudden they stay invisible? Bad update wargaming, missed opportunity to support your few remaining loyal carrier players.

Cruiser fire spotting needs to be reduced for all but the royal navy.

Battleship's need a little more concealment too.

Destroyers should be a bit more visable.

Finally have anti aircraft fire expose a ship at close ranges, still not fun to find a Baltimore or Minotaur hiding in smoke killing your planes with no counter play, Would be nice if this behaviour got them shot by the team.

[Hugh_Ruka]

I was against the change (still am), however I am a DD main and it did not affect me much. I simply stopped giving out smokes for non-DD ship classes. I was playing a fleet DD in my Udaloi before change (smoking friendly ships, covering with DFAA), now I turned to selfish bastard.

 

Well done WG ...

[N00Boo7]

Me personal i like new changes, i actually feel i can play more aggressive style.If a cruiser or dd hide in smoke and shoot, i try get closer to them to spot them, without being seen.If i play dd, i lay the smoke for cruisers more in the back, or use it in cap zone like torp magnet, with out staying in it.Like a cruiser, to smoke myself, anyway i stay at range, so i dont feel much difference in play style ( RN Cruiser line ).

[Benedictus_de_Suede]

Question n 1: How big part of the player base in % had a problem with the old smoke mechanics?

Question nr 2: Have you ever thought about asking the player base about your ideas for radical changes before implementing them?

Question nr 3: In what way does this change promote good team play???????

 

When I play DDs (mostly american ones) I usually tries to (or rather used to) support the team by laying tactical smokescreens for cruisers and BBs near the CAP and/or save ships that got focused down or badly damaged.

That mechanic is history now.

 

Big guns have big muzzle flashes small ones dont. You could have nerfed the firing from smoke for BBs and Heavy cruisers slightly by making just the muzzle flash visable. That would make some sense. This would have been enough for an alert player to punish campers in smoke besides the allready proven methods i.e radar/sonar and torpedoes.

 

In my opinion the smoke screen mechanics wasn´t good but it worked and was ok. Now its terrible.  

 

 

[Aragathor]

6 hours ago, Benedictus_de_Suede said:

Question n 1: How big part of the player base in % had a problem with the old smoke mechanics?

Question nr 2: Have you ever thought about asking the player base about your ideas for radical changes before implementing them?

Question nr 3: In what way does this change promote good team play???????

 

The smoke change we see now is a reaction of WG/Lesta to the seventh season of ranked, which was placed at tier 6. Since tier 6 has no smoke counters but 7 ships able to smoke, a smoke meta developed.

People complained that their ranked matches were fought in a permanent haze, so WG/Lesta decided to make a global smoke change. They completely ignored the fact that the problem was in them choosing tier 6 for ranked, and not the smoke itself as there is no smoke meta in random.

This change made RN CLs significantly weaker, as they rewarded aggressive smoking, and removed any reason for DDs to smoke up allies. All because of a single season of ranked.

This illustrates the level of understanding WG/Lesta has about the game.