Trade Damage for Concealment on IJN Torps?

[anonym_e0EFqTOBwuWW]

So, first off:

I am fully aware that you WG balance your game for Random Battles.

 

The result is the concealment of the IJN Torps (I knwo there are more things but I want to ask something about the IJN Torps here).

And this concealment is... garbage. Period!

 

There are enough threads on the forum where you can see that BBs have the least problems with IJN Torps.

Therefor these (supposed to be) Torpboats are a pain to play for many people.

Because... the hit ratio with IJN torps, the main weapon of IJN DDs are... at least inconsistent!

 

So, I wonder if I can trade away some of the damage from the IJN Torps and in return get better concealment for them?

Lets say... Shimakaze Torps down from 21k+ damage to 17k damage and in return a concealment of 1,2 km???

 

It would make the players of IJN DDs, at least me, happy if I can hit more often and not feel like a burden for my team.

On the other side other ships would take less damage per torpedo, so they wouldnt die a sudden death (as you stated yourself WG that your playerbase hates sudden deaths).

 

Any chance for that?

 

Greetings, Alice, Monster Lord

[Egoleter]

You know...?

I might have agreed with you if you had not insulted the general BB player population right at the start. I know that it is popuplar around here to throw those general insults around but it completly killed your argument for me.

Resolved

[ItachiZero]

38 minutes ago, Egoleter said:

You know...?

I might have agreed with you if you had not insulted the general BB player population right at the start. I know that it is popuplar around here to throw those general insults around but it completly killed your argument for me.

well you know. I still agree with him. 

I guess I should play BB bingo.

[anonym_e0EFqTOBwuWW]

44 minutes ago, Egoleter said:

You know...?

I might have agreed with you if you had not insulted the general BB player population right at the start. I know that it is popuplar around here to throw those general insults around but it completly killed your argument for me.

 

Deleted the rant... care to share some thoughts now?

 

3 minutes ago, ItachiZero said:

well you know. I still agree with him. 

I guess I should play BB bingo.

 

Deleted the rant.

Thanks for agreeing nonetheless 

[Egoleter]

8 minutes ago, Alipheese_XVI said:

Deleted the rant... care to share some thoughts now?

 

Thanks (there is something else wrong with the thread, it is a suggestion not a question, but I'll ignore that).

 

I believe the high damage output of the IJN torps drove Wargaming into a corner. They are unable to reduce those numbers without it being called a nerf even if they improve the concealment at the same time.

 

Another factor might be that the high damage potential appears to be a massive factor in their torpedo rating. If you look at some of the torpedo options, a few hundred points of damage are far better rated then higher speed, better concealment, or more range. With such a high opinion about potential damage everything else might still not be considered properly even after such a long time of data collection.

 

I wouldn't miss a few thousend points of damage if I would get better concealment for my torps instead. I can still make the current IJN torps work and I can see how better concealed version of them might be able to break the game balance. But that USN DDs of tier 9 and 10 are considered to have the better torps among the playerbase, because they are harder to evade, is an information that didn't arrive in the heads of the ones responsible for balancing. That's maybe why those torps remained unchanged while the IJN had to suffer a lot through the years.

 

I would not expect to ever see IJN torps getting a significant improvement again. We might instead see the high tier US ones being nerfed a bit. DW torpedoes will take the place of the stealth option instead.

[Spellfire40]

If the goal is making more Hits on BBs id rather nerf their Torpedodetection as a class........so you would make them more useable vs BBs without srewing Targets that are not suposed to be easyly hit.

[MiniBrit]

1 hour ago, Alipheese_XVI said:

So, I wonder if I can trade away some of the damage from the IJN Torps and in return get better concealment for them?

Lets say... Shimakaze Torps down from 21k+ damage to 17k damage and in return a concealment of 1,2 km???

Fixed.

They rely more on torpedoes than any other line, so why are they the WORST torpedo boats?

They need a straight up buff, not a trade.

A little detection buff would be neat, since apparently they are supposed to be stealthy or something

[anonym_e0EFqTOBwuWW]

52 minutes ago, Egoleter said:

 

Thanks (there is something else wrong with the thread, it is a suggestion not a question, but I'll ignore that).

 

I believe the high damage output of the IJN torps drove Wargaming into a corner. They are unable to reduce those numbers without it being called a nerf even if they improve the concealment at the same time.

 

Another factor might be that the high damage potential appears to be a massive factor in their torpedo rating. If you look at some of the torpedo options, a few hundred points of damage are far better rated then higher speed, better concealment, or more range. With such a high opinion about potential damage everything else might still not be considered properly even after such a long time of data collection.

 

I wouldn't miss a few thousend points of damage if I would get better concealment for my torps instead. I can still make the current IJN torps work and I can see how better concealed version of them might be able to break the game balance. But that USN DDs of tier 9 and 10 are considered to have the better torps among the playerbase, because they are harder to evade, is an information that didn't arrive in the heads of the ones responsible for balancing. That's maybe why those torps remained unchanged while the IJN had to suffer a lot through the years.

 

I would not expect to ever see IJN torps getting a significant improvement again. We might instead see the high tier US ones being nerfed a bit. DW torpedoes will take the place of the stealth option instead.

 

First, as english isnt my native language, my topic lokked at least to me as a question.

 

I know where you are pointing - as IJN Torps got nerfed spring 2016 there were enough posts already that ginted for a coming nerf to US torps as well... which never happened.

So, I still have the hope left, that IJN Torps will get a buff.

At least they got 100m in the past as "buff"...

 

Thats why I ask or maybe suggest for this trade off.

 

Because...

I dont want to repeat my rant...

But I dont find a single reason other than my rant before I deleted it in my OP that IJN Torps have the worst concealment.

 

Yes, they have the best damage potential - as they are first to meant as torpedo boats.

So give them at least torps you can more rely on.

 

Also better hit chance will please the players and with reduced damage there might be a chance to getting through with the suggestion to the responsible guys at WG.

 

52 minutes ago, Spellfire40 said:

If the goal is making more Hits on BBs id rather nerf their Torpedodetection as a class........so you would make them more useable vs BBs without srewing Targets that are not suposed to be easyly hit.

 

As I first had a bit rant in my OP, I cant really believe that to be ever happen.

As interesting as it would be.

 

38 minutes ago, MiniBrit said:

Fixed.

They rely more on torpedoes than any other line, so why are they the WORST torpedo boats?

They need a straight up buff, not a trade.

A little detection buff would be neat, since apparently they are supposed to be stealthy or something

 

As said to Egoleter and... as I first had rant in my OP, I dont think WG will ever buff the IJN Torps without a trade off.

So this  was the best I could think of.

[Spellfire40]

12 minutes ago, Alipheese_XVI said:

As I first had a bit rant in my OP, I cant really believe that to be ever happen.

As interesting as it would be.

Well id not be as pesemistic tehy DID looked at US cruisers. The problem i see if they decide to buff IJN or fix a perceived problem by ading more bandaids to the game which leaves IJN Torps a joke weapon relying on your openent being stupid to arceive a hit.

 

And with badaids i looking at DW Torps for panasia  and AP Bombs. If there is a balance Problem they NEED to fix it directly. That said just lowering IJN detection screws over DDs and CAs way more than BBs. (thogh i DO belive that as a Torp platform at least shima needs a detection buff or a significant gun/survivabilitybuff wich is even more unlikely)

[Tuccy]

On 10/13/2017 at 6:28 PM, Egoleter said:

 

But that USN DDs of tier 9 and 10 are considered to have the better torps among the playerbase, because they are harder to evade, is an information that didn't arrive in the heads of the ones responsible for balancing. That's maybe why those torps remained unchanged while the IJN had to suffer a lot through the years.

 

Just to add a bit of stats here:

 

Tier IX:

Fletcher: On average 32 torpedoes launched and 2 hits / battle

Yugumo: 28:2

 

Tier X: 

Gearing 31:2

Shimakaze 47:3

 

 

 

In both the final damage numbers are pretty balanced - Fletcher and Gearing make up for the difference with guns, however the large IJN torpedo damage is noticeable. It is also a nice view into the perception of game mechanics :)

 

In any case, IJN destroyers overall seem to be doing OK (which means they are in line with the others in the crucial aspects). They are also rather popular, judging by the battle count. 

[anonym_e0EFqTOBwuWW]

7 hours ago, Tuccy said:

In any case, IJN destroyers overall seem to be doing OK (which means they are in line with the others in the crucial aspects). They are also rather popular, judging by the battle count. 

 

They may seem okay in the overall stats compared to the other DDs.

 

BUT!

Many claim, that they have rather inconsistent results with IJN DDs.

Yes, even I can do with them just fine, even better with then my other DDs (except the chaba, but thats a another story)... in some battles. In other battles... its just frustrating.

Yes, I know, its also an up and down with all classes and ships.

But nothing I play has this inconsistent gameplay...

 

Dont know how to express it better with my limited english.

But can you imagine that asides overall stats I am asking about more consinst in IJN DD gameplay by giving away some of the potential damage and in return get some more reliable hitting with torps?