Minotaur-Class Cruiser / Swiftsure Class

[MrEasyUK]

The Minotaur being a Swiftsure Class or also referred to as Minotaur class, in game is a reasonable good ship, good range on torps, great reload of main armament, and great concealment but like many of the other Brit cruisers in the game does not fire High Explosive rounds, a lot of effort has obviously been put in to research ships but I honestly do not understand why Brits cruisers do not fire HE rounds when each cruiser above and including Town Class Cruisers such as HMS Belfast could fire various different types of shells including High Explosive.....  when you look at some of the Russian cruisers there is a ridiculous bias and  stats padding, sorry war gaming you have not done the Royal Navies Minotaur justice in game.... its too Squishy and should have HE.

 

It's like your choice of radar destroyers when most Benson and Fletcher Class Destroyers had both optical and radar range finding and predictive gun fire control, on par with the German radar, yes I know the Germans had the advantage at the start of the war but that was quickly matched by both US and UK seaborn radar.

 

Can we see the introduction of HE rounds for Brit Cruisers please.

 

 

[RUSSIANBlAS]

Minotaur is awesome...

 

I play with radar instead of smoke, it's basically a giant T10 Atlanta. 

 

No HE is actually a bonus as after a 10 point captain you can literally put everything into AA, no need for IFHE or Demo Expert.

 

When you have a Minotaur that has somewhere in the region of 550 DPM+ long range AA it become fairly impressive. It can climb way higher than that too.

 

WG are actually helping you by taking away HE and gifting you with sAP....

[rnat]

This is an arcade game mate.

Just look how radar and hydro as a mechanic as compared to in real life before you start with arguments about historical accuracy.

sAP and smoke (or radar at high tier, for the truly mad among us ) is the RN cruiser line flavour.

They are (potentially) high treat (high dps, torps) and have good tactical mobility and sustain (stealth, smoke, heal)

and to counterbalance this they have low alpha, floaty arcs and are very squishy.

The many soviets (*caugh* shchors *caugh*) are nearly equally squishy

but trade range and arcs & he for smoke, heal, worse ap and stealth.

 

Lastly the Mino is quite a potent ship if played well (i guess that's where the problem lies ?),

demanding buffs might make her straight-up overpowered when compared to her peers.

 

(speaking of which: WG pls buff the Hindenburg. 5.4km concealment and USN autobounce angles pls ? )

[creamgravy]

Swiftsure and Ontario (ex-Minotaur) aren't in the game mate.

 

The tier 10 RN CL cruiser we have is design Z4/A, it's significantly more powerful than those two.

 

[eliastion]

4 hours ago, MrEasyUK said:

(...)

Can we see the introduction of HE rounds for Brit Cruisers please.

 

 

No, we can't. Lack of HE is part of balancing - if you gave them HE, they would need to lose some of their power elsewhere. WG make them distinct from other lines by giving them some characteristics that stand out like

 - smoke

 - heal from low tiers

 - great acceleration

 - better AP characteristics making this kind of ammo more efective

 - no HE

 

And if you say "it's too squishy" or "it should have HE" you're asking for buffs. And does this ship need buffs? It's the second best performing cruiser on tier X.

Des Moines gets 52,76% winrate

Minotaur gets 51,24% winrate

Moskva gets 50,34%

Hindenburg 50,18%

Zao 49,96%

Henri IV 48,60%

 

Think about these numbers for a moment. Look by what margin Minotaur outperforms most of her competition. And yes, there is one cruiser that does get better results (also by a pretty wide margin) - but that seems like a reason for potential DM nerf rather than Mino buff. WG did do justice to the Minotaur, making her into a really powerful top tier cruiser. And the fact that some aspects of that cruiser aren't realistic? Well, guess what: THIS GAME DOES NOT STRIVE FOR REALISM. It strives to be just that: a good game people have fun playing. Sometimes they go right, sometimes they go wrong, but making British cruisers overpowered by giving them more tools when they perform well with what they already have - that would just be counter-productive.

 

And it's not just Minotaur. When you look at other mid-to-high tiers, British cruisers don't seem to suffer much either. At (pretty well-balanced) t9 Neptune is on par with the competition. On t8 Edinburgh is the second-best non-premium. On t7 - Fiji is the best non-premium. On t6 - second best non-premium.

 

British cruisers do struggle at low tiers (up to 5). Might have something to do with uncommon gameplay people need to get used to (I, having played lots of DDs before, never found the low tier Brits as challenging as their global performance indicates), but if you want to cry about WG not treating UK ships right, go complain about those that actually do underperform. Minotaur is fine. More than fine, actually. Her being as squishy as she is is - and lacking HE to effectively deal with some well-angled targets - are reasons why she is just a great ship rather than game-breakingly overpowered one.

[ColonelPete]

They will not change that as it is their Gimmick. And WG likes Gimmicks.

 

I prefer cruisers with AP and HE.

I also prefer BB who have stronger AP than HE.

But that is me.

[WingedHussar_Adler]

5 hours ago, MrEasyUK said:

The Minotaur being a Swiftsure Class or also referred to as Minotaur class, in game is a reasonable good ship, good range on torps, great reload of main armament, and great concealment but like many of the other Brit cruisers in the game does not fire High Explosive rounds, a lot of effort has obviously been put in to research ships but I honestly do not understand why Brits cruisers do not fire HE rounds when each cruiser above and including Town Class Cruisers such as HMS Belfast could fire various different types of shells including High Explosive.....  when you look at some of the Russian cruisers there is a ridiculous bias and  stats padding, sorry war gaming you have not done the Royal Navies Minotaur justice in game.... its too Squishy and should have HE.

 

It's like your choice of radar destroyers when most Benson and Fletcher Class Destroyers had both optical and radar range finding and predictive gun fire control, on par with the German radar, yes I know the Germans had the advantage at the start of the war but that was quickly matched by both US and UK seaborn radar.

 

Can we see the introduction of HE rounds for Brit Cruisers please.

 

 

Belfast is most op ship in game. Or one of most op ones. Brita line with he would be most op line. 

 

Sure they can get he. If they lose smoke. 

[WashedandDeceased]

Sorry, but just imagine a Minotaur with its insane reload slinging HE at BBs or.. anything for that matter ^_^

It's a game, soo.. balans, tovarishch

[Dee_82]

if we are talking about historically accurate ships, then actually, they wouldn't be firing all that much HE anyway, i for one think HE is one of the most annoying functions of the game ( if on the receiving end) 

[JaiFoh]

The Minotaur is without a doubt priority target number one for all ships when one is spotted as everyone is aware of how dangerous it is. 
The number of times when i get spotted by something like a Kagero at 8.9km and that "targeted by" number jumps from zero to 6/7 and i am just going "crap cover cover cover"

the Max was on ocean and before my smoke was deployed the number was at 11 ships targeting me

she is a beast and if played right and barely spotted she will wrack up damage numbers and if on 3/4 HP in the final third of a battle she can take on anything with an ambush. 
A BB backed up by a Minotaur 1km behind it in a Cyclone is an utter nightmare to face as any DD suddenly has a very dangerous cruiser to face, a cruiser at sub 8km range can be deleted by a Mino in under a minute if they turn broadside and if all else fails the Mino can smoke. 

With HE it would be a nightmare so no, no HE on the Mino, she would be broken with HE as rather than having to close to about 10-11km in order for the guns to be effective it could just stay at 14/15km and lob HE shells and burn everything to death, and with her rate of fire there is not as much skill required to play her.

[__Helmut_Kohl__]

9 hours ago, Negativvv said:

it's basically a giant T10 Atlanta. 

 

Which is why I stopped the grind at T8. 

Hate nothing more than rainbow arcs. 

[RUSSIANBlAS]

10 minutes ago, _Helmut_Kohl_ said:

 

Which is why I stopped the grind at T8. 

Hate nothing more than rainbow arcs. 

 That's why I chose to spec Radar and only hunt DDs. Bigger ships are damaged via torps and if they rush your island. 

 

Also if you spec AA and camp a middle island you act as an effective no fly barrier.

 

I didn't like Mino much at first and preferred Moskva but now I appreciate the play style of both.

[ClappingLollies]

4 hours ago, Freyr_90 said:

Sorry, but just imagine a Minotaur with its insane reload slinging HE at BBs or.. anything for that matter ^_^

It's a game, soo.. balans, tovarishch

That would be funny. Burn all the BBs. 

[captain_lef]

mino does not need HE, i agree, but, i would say a small armour buff would be nice. just so that angling matters.

[DFens_666]

Its clearly not about that they dont have HE, i think its more that the line is not for u. The RN CLs have a very high skill ceiling. They are very strong in the right hands, but are frustrating to play because of their low armor if played incorrectly. Also the place for the aim matters a lot, shoot at the wrong places and u make almost no damage in them.

If u give them HE they are totaly overpowered. A mino with HE doesnt need AP anymore thx to the ROF. The target would have 4 perm fires in no time.

[Prospect_b]

12 hours ago, Negativvv said:

I play with radar instead of smoke, it's basically a giant T10 Atlanta. 

 

While this has generated some nice memes, I am wondering how much fun you have on those lovely high tier maps like okinawa, mountain range, fears of the cruisers etc. (not to mention the rare ocean) with that build.

[elblancogringo]

giving HE to minotaur would make her totally overpowered.

She is already very powerful if handled correctly.

[RUSSIANBlAS]

15 minutes ago, PzychoPanzer said:

While this has generated some nice memes, I am wondering how much fun you have on those lovely high tier maps like okinawa, mountain range, fears of the cruisers etc. (not to mention the rare ocean) with that build.

Yeah, it's an extremely hit and miss build but then again Mino is that sort of ship.

 

Some maps will utterly screw you yeah but that's why I go for an AA build so I can be a bit of use still by parking behind a central island.

 

Radar Mino is more than just meme videos. It's hugely effective at killing smoking ships and DDs. Radar range is above concealment and it can last 56s with the module.

[SV_Kompresor]

I think  there's already enough cancerous HE smoke spammers

[philjd]

4 hours ago, Negativvv said:

 That's why I chose to spec Radar and only hunt DDs. Bigger ships are damaged via torps and if they rush your island. 

 

Also if you spec AA and camp a middle island you act as an effective no fly barrier.

 

I didn't like Mino much at first and preferred Moskva but now I appreciate the play style of both.

Your comments prompt me to run with a radar Mino' for a bit.. but I haven't finished making a brave pill large enough yet :)

[RUSSIANBlAS]

30 minutes ago, philjd said:

Your comments prompt me to run with a radar Mino' for a bit.. but I haven't finished making a brave pill large enough yet :)

The irony is it's more like a chicken pill lol You maintain strict fire discipline and if you're spotted then you best be sure you've got an escape plan or can kill whatever sees you before they squish you!

 

The style of play changes quite a bit and even in a good game your damage may suck but it'll be mostly from DDs. If I kill all the DDs then die after I'll consider it a job well done.

 

Got flamed for having radar by an arrogant Yam who claimed there was no hope for me yesterday. Despite capping two points and nuking all the DDs. 

 

I'd rather folk didn't use Radar Mino as often DDs don't plan for you to equip it and they simply die before they can get away.

[MrEasyUK]

In the Tier 10 cat you have Tier 9 Cruisers out gunning the Minotaur for sure, DM Donskoi is ridiculous.

[MrEasyUK]

17 hours ago, creamgravy said:

Swiftsure and Ontario (ex-Minotaur) aren't in the game mate.

 

The tier 10 RN CL cruiser we have is design Z4/A, it's significantly more powerful than those two.

 

They are the one and the same class of cruiser of the 3 that that were built from the base of the Colony Class for example the Fiji which was a Colony Class Cruiser, the point is they could fire High Explosive rounds unlike for example some of the Russian cruisers which like world of tanks have a bias.

 

[MrEasyUK]

18 hours ago, rnat said:

This is an arcade game mate.

Just look how radar and hydro as a mechanic as compared to in real life before you start with arguments about historical accuracy.

sAP and smoke (or radar at high tier, for the truly mad among us ) is the RN cruiser line flavour.

They are (potentially) high treat (high dps, torps) and have good tactical mobility and sustain (stealth, smoke, heal)

and to counterbalance this they have low alpha, floaty arcs and are very squishy.

The many soviets (*caugh* shchors *caugh*) are nearly equally squishy

but trade range and arcs & he for smoke, heal, worse ap and stealth.

 

Lastly the Mino is quite a potent ship if played well (i guess that's where the problem lies ?),

demanding buffs might make her straight-up overpowered when compared to her peers.

 

(speaking of which: WG pls buff the Hindenburg. 5.4km concealment and USN autobounce angles pls ? )

 

To be brutally honest some Japanese and Russian Cruisers need bring in-line with the rest of the Cruiser Tree as they are rediculous

[RUSSIANBlAS]

28 minutes ago, MrEasyUK said:

They are the one and the same class of cruiser of the 3 that that were built from the base of the Colony Class for example the Fiji which was a Colony Class Cruiser, the point is they could fire High Explosive rounds unlike for example some of the Russian cruisers which like world of tanks have a bias.

 

 Wut?

 

Exactly what RU Cruiser gives rise to a Russian Bias?

 

Whilst I'd lean on agreeing it happens in both WoT and here, Cruisers don't really have this issue.

 

Kutuzov could be OP but arguably Belfast is worse.

 

Moskva is the only other candidate I can see and she isn't OP. Very strong yes but doesn't dominate T10 games. Plays like a very light weight BB but the moment you pretend you are one is when the ship blows up.

 

Minotaur and Moskva are the only two  T10 Cruisers I own but I've played enough of both to know they've got their places in the game.

 

I'm not one to check stats but have you even played much RN Cruiser? The sAP is essentially very similar from T6 onwards except the volume of fire climbs steadily. sAP really has no issues killing their intended targets e.g DDs and Cruisers.

 

Now the argument whether either should have radar isn't really for this thread either...