Annoying CV players

[Humorpalanta]

Hi guys!

 

I just have to talk it out because bugs me so much right now. I'm total full of these Edited CV players, even at T8-9-10. I have gotten used to that you can't trust anyone but it is just too much.

I know I can't trust BBs. I know CAs stay far far away or just die. But in the latest weeks I managed to meet these Edited CV players.

Playing a destroyer. Launching torps perfectly. About to destroy BB when Edited  CV flies her torp bombers close the BB so it just changes direction and completely miss my torps... And naturally CV hit 1 or 2... So instead of a kill it's just a healable dmg. Or totally avoids all torps. I have lost a game because only me and a Edited CV left and anytime I torped the enemy, the CV attacked with bombers or torp squads and totally ruined my kills.

But the latest thing I managed to meet just Edited up my mind. Torping a BB from far. Coming perfectly. Then Taiho joins in. Drops that BB. (There are other ships closer to the CV to attack, but no.) So drops this BB and kills it with torps just before my torps would hit it. Naturally I wouldn't mind if it was the only enemy but no. I have lost games because of this.

 

So annoying.

[Skyllon]

TL;DR

Incompetence is frustraiting.

 

 

Hmm... I wonder if good tutorial might've helped... What do you think WG?

 

On the second though, it is impossible to teach people thinking...

[Spellfire40]

Your aware that there is no Killstealing just kill securing? Would you complain too if a Zao He spamed the BB and it would change course to avoid hts? there is no "your Target".....

[Humorpalanta]

1 minute ago, Spellfire40 said:

Your aware that there is no Killstealing just kill securing? Would you complain too if a Zao He spamed the BB and it would change course to avoid hts? there is no "your Target".....

There is no my Target but if I see that he is about to die by someone else - and it is certain - then I don't shoot at it if there is another enemy I can shoot because winning a game is more important than my own dmg or kill number. It is simple as that but because of Youtube and places where you can brag about your games people killsteal even if it wouldn't be necessary just to show up.

[Major_Damage225]

So this, at the end of the day it dosent matter who gets the kill, what matteres is that you sink the reds asap, i never had a problem like this in my DD's or anyother class. 

 

Edit: u were to fast. 

[Humorpalanta]

2 minutes ago, Major_Damage225 said:

So this, at the end of the day it dosent matter who gets the kill, what matteres is that you sink the reds asap, i never had a problem like this in my DD's or anyother class. 

 

Edit: u were to fast. 

I don't care if they steal a kill from me iw we win and many of us shooting 1 enemy. But if we lose because of these situations (debil CV makes torping a BB - or more ships as I have experienced- impossible), then I get fking frustrated.

[Spellfire40]

23 minutes ago, Humorpalanta said:

There is no my Target but if I see that he is about to die by someone else - and it is certain - then I don't shoot at it if there is another enemy I can shoot because winning a game is more important than my own dmg or kill number. It is simple as that but because of Youtube and places where you can brag about your games people killsteal even if it wouldn't be necessary just to show up.

Yea would you say that too if about to die BB gets off a salvo that kills one of your teams Cruisers? A 1hp ship is as dangerous as a 100k one. A 10 damage kill means nothing exp and credits wise. The one doing the % damge gets the real rewards unless you look for some meaningless K/D stat.......

[MacFergus]

As long as the team wins who cares who gets the kills or damage to be fair.

[Humorpalanta]

1 minute ago, Spellfire40 said:

Yea would you say that too if about to die BB gets off a salvo that kills one of your teams Cruisers? A 1hp ship is as dangerous as a 100k one. A 10 damage kill means nothing exp and credits wise. The one doing the % damge gets the real rewards unless you look for some meaningless K/D stat.......

I say when about to to arrive the torps is that CV hit his torps in 1 second less than my torps would have. But you are still arguing about the least important parts of this.

He could have killed another ship so in 1 second they lose 2 or 3 but no he attacked the one I would have killed in a second. He then flies his bombers back, loads them, and flies back to attack again. Easily 1 minute. So instead of they lose 2 or more ships (T9 carrier with may torp bombers) they lose 1. Pls focus on the important parts and do not try to save somebody who is just an idiot and can't think logically.

Let me say this other way. You are a BB. You know 2 DDs attack the enemy BB and there is another BB closer to you. Who do you shoot? The one that is about to die by destroyers or the one that gives your team the chance to take out two of them and win?

 

2 minutes ago, MacFergus said:

As long as the team wins who cares who gets the kills or damage to be fair.

Do you actually read before answer?

[DFens_666]

I dont think many ppl understood what happened to the OP. I know because i had matches where it happened to me aswell. Was torping a Furutaka from smoke (we had only few ships left was very close) I think my torps were 2km from hitting when moron CV torped him (instead of a BB which was also 5km behind a rock). Furutaka turned in, my torps didnt hit, and CV torps hit neither. So furutaka runs out of my torp range. Said BB behind the rock gets out i launch next torps. CV comes again with torp bomber does the same crap... In the end i was alone trying to stop furutaka from last cap coz we had point advantage... We barely made it...

Noone complains about killstealing, but idiot CVs who safe the enemy from death is really awful

[El2aZeR]

1 hour ago, Spellfire40 said:

Your aware that there is no Killstealing just kill securing?

 

To be fair killstealing in CVs is indeed seriously stupid and should be condemned as such, as you're wasting one of the few strikes you can fly per match on a target that would've been dead anyway. There is really no justification for it unless the target has serious chances to get away or is the last one on the map.

[Spellfire40]

1 minute ago, El2aZeR said:

 

To be fair killstealing in CVs is indeed seriously stupid and should be condemned as such, as you're wasting one of the few strikes you can fly per match on a target that would've been dead anyway. There is really no justification for it unless the target has serious chances to get away or is the last one on the map.

True but we only know that the BB was to die anway not if there were actually were any targts for the CV to hit without losing a whoule strike worth of planes and so forth. You can find as many excuses to kill a low HP ship as you can to claim its "Your" kill. In the end it olnly maters that the target gets down and the reward for the kill dosent get the one killing it but the one who did the most damage to it. what If the same target gets shout up by motiple ships after you did 50% of the damage? The aswer is simple ...you get 50%+ worth of exp and credits for the kill. True as a DD it can be frustrating if a 2 min in the making atack gets messed up but that might also hapen if the targets angle agist some inc BB shells that only gets there by your spoting. In the end anybody in the team plays for the most posible exp credits gained there are no 1 on 1 duels that anybody has to stay away from.

[iJoby]

Did you try Communication. The CV player also wants the same as you, to kill that nasty red ship, and even 2 of his torps could mean heavy flooding, and that is time for you to set the BB on fire.

It's not easy playing a CV, having to support 11 other players as much as possible, try it at T10 and see, I couldn't do it.

[Brucalizer]

oh boy, what's not wrong about this post.... firstly you're calling a CV retarded when you're only complaint is "he killed a thing so i didn't get to", secondly if it's just you two left a the end of a battle have you ever considered that that CV was actually attempting to protect you from an incoming enemy?... lastly, in the current meta, the number of viable targets for a CV is usually fairly limited due to large clumps of high AA BBs grouped together and cruisers with either defensive fire or just ridiculous raw AA output (or both) meaning the CV will most probably go for whatever is isolated and ahead of the pack, i.e. what you're most likely targeting...

Is it frustrating to fire torps at a target only for them to get nuked before they reach? Of course it is, but calling the CV a retard is... not smart...

[Tubit101]

Attempting a few games yesterday night made me hate CVs. 4 games in a row, I was permaspotted in my DD. Completely shut down because I had planes following me everywhere I went. If I am lucky, I can shoot down 2 planes during 20 minutes with my Akatsuki.

 

When aerial dominance has been established, DDs are going to have a bad time. Especially DDs with poor AA, which is most of them. Either one of the CV captains suck more than the other and lets the opposing CV roam free to do whatever he wants, or they fight it out in their own private little aerial war until one has air superiority. Either way, it's bad news for everyone who are squishy and relies on stealth.

 

Oh, and those 4 games? All of them were losses. Just 4 games of boring and frustrating gameplay.

 

If anyone has any good and constructive tips on how to deal with this as a DD with poor AA, please go ahead and help me out. I tried talking to our team's CV captains for help, to no avail.

[ShinGetsu]

12 minutes ago, Tubit101 said:

Attempting a few games yesterday night made me hate CVs. 4 games in a row, I was permaspotted in my DD. Completely shut down because I had planes following me everywhere I went. If I am lucky, I can shoot down 2 planes during 20 minutes with my Akatsuki.

 

When aerial dominance has been established, DDs are going to have a bad time. Especially DDs with poor AA, which is most of them. Either one of the CV captains suck more than the other and lets the opposing CV roam free to do whatever he wants, or they fight it out in their own private little aerial war until one has air superiority. Either way, it's bad news for everyone who are squishy and relies on stealth.

 

Oh, and those 4 games? All of them were losses. Just 4 games of boring and frustrating gameplay.

 

If anyone has any good and constructive tips on how to deal with this as a DD with poor AA, please go ahead and help me out. I tried talking to our team's CV captains for help, to no avail.

There's no way out sadly.

 

Usually, when one CV is competent in one of the team, the other isn't. Most CV players don't understand that spotting is their main job and only think about destroying planes/striking targets. So if a CV is dead set on spotting DDs, you basically can't play unless you're playing an Akizuki or you manage to find an ally riddled with AA that makes the job harder for him. And he still will spot your torpedoes anyway. And the worst of all is that your CV is usually too stupid to counter the spotting or don't even notice the issue.

Best way you can deal with that is to run at the rear for 2/3 minutes and come back on another part of the map, the CV will have a longer reaction time and won't spot you right away, so you may be able to get some torpedo hit. But don't try staying in the same area.

 

On the other hand, if two competent CV play against one another, you won't even notice they are in the game. They'll just counter all and any opportunity from the other, and will at best strike once or twice during the whole match.

 

[pra3y]

@Tubit101 

You have to be more proactive yourself. If you cannot rely on your CV to ptotect you the next best thing is to rely on nearby ships with good AA to put off the enemy CV. Sure it takes abit of time but it helps. Was trying to cap once in Fubuki (when it was tier 8)  when enemy Taiho decided to scout and attack me. I went towards the nearest friendly ship with decent AA to use its AA against the Taiho. Survived then went back to cap. Best thing about this is that you don't have to ask for help since AA is automatic anyway. Also you don't have to rush as a DD. Try to cap at the start but if enemy ship or CV is hindering you then run first.The longer you survive in a DD, the more dangerous you are late/end game.

[Tubit101]

Like @ShinGetsu said: any CV captain worth their mettle will not follow you into AA capable ships. When you retreat back to other ships, they have already succeeded in their task, which is to pacify the DDs. They can simply circle their planes at a safe distance and spot your torpedoes long before they can become a threat.

 

Planes are extremely versatile because of their speed. Pretty much any ship becomes a snail by comparison. That is why it's pretty much hopeless to try to outfox them. I don't think "wait until late game" is a viable suggestion. Having a ship type forced to remain idle for the majority of a match doesn't promote entertaining gameplay, neither is there any guarantee that the opposing CV won't be just as capable to spot you during the late game.

[mcboernester]

7 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

 

To be fair killstealing in CVs is indeed seriously stupid and should be condemned as such, as you're wasting one of the few strikes you can fly per match on a target that would've been dead anyway. There is really no justification for it unless the target has serious chances to get away or is the last one on the map.

Sure, but I have already been reported for "Killstealing" because I sunk a 20k HP Cruiser, so yeah ^^  If there's something like a "rule of thumb" (Faustregel, no clue of an alternative Term in english) I would say " Don't drop Targets with least then 10% health. But then again it's highly situational. like for example if this Ship is onward to Kill one of your Teammates or the only one you can drop because the whole enemy Team once again just Sits behind one Cap in a big AA Clusterf*ck. 

[Boris_MNE]

@xXx_Blogis_xXx  you probably was that CV! :P

[RamirezKurita]

49 minutes ago, Tubit101 said:

Having a ship type forced to remain idle for the majority of a match doesn't promote entertaining gameplay

 

So I guess that now you know how cruisers feel when there's battleships around, or how carriers feel when most of the time against a competent team?

[Mr_Snoww]

Well you are right that the cv probably shouldn't have dropped the best that you torped as his toro bombers could have either waited to see if he DC the flood or if they killed him gone for another target, therefore maximising the usefulness of his torps killing an enemy that the team might. It be able to at that present time. However you cannot expect every CV to be able to see what you are doing as he will have a lot to concentrate on other than where you are firing your torps. People need to understand how much concentration cvs take to play and that they can't be everywhere at once.

[Tubit101]

1 minute ago, RamirezKurita said:

 

So I guess that now you know how cruisers feel when there's battleships around, or how carriers feel when most of the time against a competent team?

 

I play roughly an equal amount of everything except for carriers (30% CA, 32% BB, 36% DD). However, there is little comparison between getting fully shut down by a CV in a DD and feeling outgunned in a cruiser. The situations simply aren't comparable. If they were, it would still be a derailment of the discussion to use that line of arguing. Cruisers being weak to battleships is no excuse for CVs having the ability to shut down DDs. It's just another issue with the game.

 

I'd say that the closest I've been to feeling as powerless in a cruiser is while playing a stock New Orleans in a T10 dominated game. But that is highly circumstantial. The situation I describe for DDs is applicable to a lot of DDs. Also, remember that what applies to cruisers also largely applies to DDs. They can easily be annihilated by BBs in a matter of seconds and they are prone to getting exposed because of their shorter weapons range and detection mechanics such as radar and hydro (in addition to plane spotting and other DDs of course).

[pra3y]

1 hour ago, Tubit101 said:

Like @ShinGetsu said: any CV captain worth their mettle will not follow you into AA capable ships. When you retreat back to other ships, they have already succeeded in their task, which is to pacify the DDs. They can simply circle their planes at a safe distance and spot your torpedoes long before they can become a threat.

 

Planes are extremely versatile because of their speed. Pretty much any ship becomes a snail by comparison. That is why it's pretty much hopeless to try to outfox them. I don't think "wait until late game" is a viable suggestion. Having a ship type forced to remain idle for the majority of a match doesn't promote entertaining gameplay, neither is there any guarantee that the opposing CV won't be just as capable to spot you during the late game.

 

Well that's where you're wrong. You're not looking at this from the perspective of a CV player. A competent CV player scouts, shoot down enemy planes and strike at enemy ships. So at any point in time, his concentration is split between this 3 things. If he's persistently scouting you, then he's not focusing on the other 2 area, which is a win for your team. If he's not doing so, then you can either escape or bait him by sailing into friendly AA. Not every CV player would know exactly which ship has good AA or not. Sure they'll know the usual suspects like Cleveland, Mino, DM all that but others? For example a Hipper may seem unassuming but it has pretty good AA for its tier. Almost all the tier 7 and above BBs have good AA. Bayern and Queen E's AA are pretty strong. If the CV is perma spotting an area then just re-position. Sure he achieve his aim, but the planes are then "stuck" in that area. Heck even my Pensacola's AA is pretty effective against tier 6/7 planes.

 

The other thing you have to consider is while those planes are fast, they're not super fast like tier 10 planes are. Like I said, it takes time for those planes to move from one area to another. Remember he has a limited amount of squadrons and a limited amount of hanger space. Plus he cannot just purely focus on you. He has to consider the other CV as well as the other ships in your team as well. So there are definitely ways to outfox an enemy CV in a DD. The "wait until late game" point is more of considering not to play too aggressively as a DD at the start if the CV is out for you. Say for example you're in a standard game, both sides are fighting at the flanks and killing off each other while you go around, dropping torps here and there while you can. Late game, lesser ships, enemy CV has lesser planes, you start capping, it possible to turn games around solely with a DD at the end game capping an enemy base. Sure the enemy CV can spot you but if you save your smoke and use it while he comes in for the attack then he waste one attack and has to rearm his planes before attacking again, wasting time. That's why you can't just consider things from the perspective of a CV's target but at the same time you have to know the limitations of a CV. When you know that you can take advantage of it and all of a sudden CVs aren't as OP as what some people claim them to be.

 

 

[Tubit101]

You are just making a ton of assumptions to the benefit of CVs here. I'm not even sure where to begin. But let me just preemptively say that if you're going to keep saying "just do this and just do that", I won't keep following up on that kind of discussion. You're being unrealistic.

 

First of all. Good CVs can multi-task. It is possible to keep spotting in several areas because it is easy for a CV player to predict where a DD cannot go. You don't need to keep spotting a DD, you just need to prevent him from getting to a position where he is a threat to your team mates. A CV player doesn't need to focus on a squadron in order to spot a DD, he just needs his planes to be in the general vicinity - which only necessitates that he correctly guesses where the DD will be and then give the order for his squadron to fly there. Then he can forget about it.

 

Also, as I have stated numerous times - there is no "just bait him" with a competent CV player. There is no "just escape" because you are either ineffectively far from the battle or he will find you again in a short amount of time. There is no "just reposition" because of the same reasons I mentioned earlier. Contrary to planes, repositioning in a DD takes time. You cannot outrun a plane and you can't hide except by rendering your ship ineffective because it is easy to predict where a DD will go - or must go, if you will. DDs have boundaries such as land mass and the spotting range of enemy ships to take into consideration. You are grossly oversimplifying the capabilities of a DD while downplaying CVs respectively.

 

A plane is generally over 4 times as fast as a DD and it ignores landmass blockades. A lot of your argument here is the assumption that a CV player doesn't know how to play and will waste his planes early game. I think you are wrong and I think the game needs a lot of adjustment when it comes to this issue.