MM sugestion to avoid usless games

[SEN_SEN_Channel_Portugue]

Hi guys,

 

I want to ask you all if its not the time to join our efforts and make an request to the devs about the MM algorithm.

I think, after all this time, and considering the player base have reached, imho, a level when this can be done ( I see 15-20k + players online on weekend, on EU server) - and I think WG can improve the MM quality by making an fair adjustment.

 

Exactly, what its bother me right now is this: stock ships with the skipper in the "training phase" (for 200k credits, avoiding the 500 gold if you, for a reason or other, cant pay that) - so, those "stock" ships are forced to face fully upgraded ships 2 tier higher. I play alone most of time, and I am now with my poor New Orleans stock, and I have a row of 5 games all vs tier X, some of them with pairs of Yamato.s and/or Conq.s, on division with more 2-3 guys also on tier IX and X. 

 

4 games I was the bottom at tier VIII, last one was an Bismark with me. Lost all 5 of them. In a row. My best dam was 57k, other an average of 15-25k . In a game I got spotted by an plane in first couple of minutes, then out of nowhere an volley fall on my head and I was deleted in just 2-3 min of game-play.   (an Yamato hit, probably...).

 

I confess I must hide behind the "big guys", but with 2 tier IX or X cv.s in-game and an crap AAA suite at my end (stock hull...) you get spotted no matter where you are, and, sadly, on this game, an big bb do not shoot first at the other red bb 9 km ahead but yes at the cruiser 14 km away... cuz an single volley will delete that cruiser when are 2 tiers difference in favor of bb.

 

So, aside the fact I feel useless for the team aside of lost flags & camo, aside of no fun at all situation, I suggest WG should do like another company/game, WT (planes) where are almost the same MM rules like here BUT with one big difference:

STOCK platforms (planes or tanks) get an better MM of +- only 1 tier, at least until they research & buy first module for upgrades.

Since are enough players, atm, I think this could work.

 

Hell,  will be nice if the MM algorithm put your stock can in a searching cloud of MM with +-1 difference for, lets say, first 2-3 min, then, if no players are available, can turn you back to the lions - the normal +2 ... 

 

I feel this become a real pain now since the differences between a fully upgraded tier X vs an stock tier VIII are really hard to overcame... lets say, more then tier V vs tier VII. I feel that with Mogami, ( I got Ibuki now, still stock) and I feel even more pain with N Orleans.

I am more a cruiser / dd guy, bb.s are not my favorite fun factor, I confess... at least, not anymore.

 

So, what do you think - especially looking at your own trajectory to the grind - its this an viable change to promote to the devs ?

 

(thank you all in advance for reading all this).

PS - I do have some free XP, BUT I decided to save all for the big Missi... I wish to avoid to spend free XP to buy modules...

 

SENA.

[ColonelPete]

I have never lost a battle because of MM, but I lost a lot of battles because of bad players.

Maybe it is time that the bad players started to learn the basics of the game and stopped blaming game mechanics for their failure.

[Gnirf]

well from say T7/8 the stock grind are tough especially with f.e. the concealement skill for the captain also as well. But all this is also a deliberate choice on your part by not collecting freeXP to skip the stock grind, management of your captains f.e. having premiums and/or retrain lower ships captains - all of this come to a cost in time and money but we all have the same issue and it is advisable to plan ahead in your advancement both in your tech tree climb managing flags, free XP and captains. That you have difficulties is therefor in the business model to make you pay. I doubt that the stock grind phase ever will be an issue for WG.

[Ulvesnutepostei]

I played Stock ships as little as possible ... I regard that a Choice you make to risk facing TierX in an unprepaired vessel tbh ... 

[HmS_Grimm]

Up to T6/7 you can play on stock ships with no problem if you have concealement skill for cap, on higher tiers upgrade your ship asap. If that means spending your free XP then so be it.

Since we are already talking about how stupid MM is, this is what I had in a game today = 5 enemy radar ships and I'm in a DD.

In the end we still won and all our DDs lived & finished in top 5! Remember you don't lose because of bad MM, you lose because of bad players!!

 

 

 

[MacFergus]

You don't have to play in Random as a stock ship you can go co-op and grind something to make it easier in random takes longer but it does solve a problem.

 

As for MM I think the tier 8 MM is awful in Wowp they implemented MM where T9&10 only saw those tiers and T8 had there own MM but by that time the game was dead in the water but people did seem happier there was no complaints , The difference is gimmicks in Wows and MM inability to sort it out ie you could get a division of Belfast's or Fijis and the red team could get just jap CAs , Also because Domination games make up 70% of game mode the teams who have extra DD which happens all the time have a great advantage , but bare in mind this happen for you and against you.  

[Egoleter]

You can collect and use freeXP to avoid playing stock ships.

You can use elite captain XP to accelerate the retraining of your captains.

You can use the coop mode while you train your captain and develop your ship.

 

I agree that some ships are hard to play in their stock configuration but we do have tools at our disposal to avoid that. And playing with ships that do not perform at their top development performance can teach you a thing or two about positioning and making good choices during battles.

[darky_fighter]

6 hours ago, ColonelPete said:

I have never lost a battle because of MM, but I lost a lot of battles because of bad players.

 

That is the real reason for one-sided matches.

[MacFergus]

8 hours ago, ColonelPete said:

I have never lost a battle because of MM, but I lost a lot of battles because of bad players.

Maybe it is time that the bad players started to learn the basics of the game and stopped blaming game mechanics for their failure.

 

Total hogwash , Do we have Unicums because they are vastly superior players? Nope we have them because they go in divisions of decent players which in turn skews MM in there favour , Now don't get me wrong there are Unicums with purple solo stats but they are rare , Does that extra DD count for a lot in Domination games? Dam right it does , Does the MM account for the number of gimmicks each side has , Nope it doesn't .

 

Of course there are people who don't use basic Mechanics of the game but there lot of people who do but sometimes MM can give anyone a raw deal and it happens , Simply saying Bad players should get better and ignore the flaws in MM is ridiculous and silly as some players will never improve.

 

Skill based MM would solve most of the problems of one-sided games but good players don't want it because it will reduce there stats and that's a fact , I always find it amazing whenever Skill based MM gets mentioned how touchy some unicums become I mean seriously you don't think playing against players of a similar level of skill would be challenging and rewarding?.

 

Btw are you including yourself when you say you have lost battles in a bad team ? Or are you blameless and its everyone else's fault ?

 

 

[_Zug_Zwang_]

10 hours ago, ColonelPete said:

I have never lost a battle because of MM, but I lost a lot of battles because of bad players.

Maybe it is time that the bad players started to learn the basics of the game and stopped blaming game mechanics for their failure.

 

 

... this kind of smart*** attitude is why the mm doesnt get fixed ... you did lose many battles because the mm put too many bad players on your team

 

 

there are way too many one-sided battles ... also the +/- 2T is outdated ... the difference between ships has become too much for 2 tiers ... 

[_Zug_Zwang_]

8 hours ago, HmS_Grimm said:

 

.... Remember you don't lose because of bad MM, you lose because of bad players!!

 

 

 

as if bad players are distributed between the 2 teams by GOD not by the mm ... 

[159Hunter]

18 minutes ago, KelVarnsen said:

 

 

... this kind of smart*** attitude is why the mm doesnt get fixed ... you did lose many battles because the mm put too many bad players on your team

 

 

there are way too many one-sided battles ... also the +/- 2T is outdated ... the difference between ships has become too much for 2 tiers ... 

Because the +/- 2 MM doesn't need to be fixed, it isn't the issue, nor is it outdated. Sure it adds for some thresholds in grinding but we can't have everything be super easy?

As for bad players: yes, but skill based matchmaking is a nightmare to put into the game. What basis would be used to determine one's skill?

 

@OP: You say yourself that you do not want to spend doubloons / captain XP / free XP to avoid having to play a stock ship with an untrained captain. That's a choice you make and as you already have multiple tier VIII ship you are well aware of what you're getting into. Rather than blaming the MM, maybe you should rethink your choice and see if nothing can be done there.

[ColonelPete]

3 hours ago, MacFergus said:

 

Total hogwash , Do we have Unicums because they are vastly superior players? Nope we have them because they go in divisions of decent players which in turn skews MM in there favour , Now don't get me wrong there are Unicums with purple solo stats but they are rare , Does that extra DD count for a lot in Domination games? Dam right it does , Does the MM account for the number of gimmicks each side has , Nope it doesn't .

 

Of course there are people who don't use basic Mechanics of the game but there lot of people who do but sometimes MM can give anyone a raw deal and it happens , Simply saying Bad players should get better and ignore the flaws in MM is ridiculous and silly as some players will never improve.

 

Skill based MM would solve most of the problems of one-sided games but good players don't want it because it will reduce there stats and that's a fact , I always find it amazing whenever Skill based MM gets mentioned how touchy some unicums become I mean seriously you don't think playing against players of a similar level of skill would be challenging and rewarding?.

 

Btw are you including yourself when you say you have lost battles in a bad team ? Or are you blameless and its everyone else's fault ?

 

 

And DD numbers do not matter....

Inform yourself.

[RamirezKurita]

12 hours ago, ColonelPete said:

I have never lost a battle because of MM, but I lost a lot of battles because of bad players.

Maybe it is time that the bad players started to learn the basics of the game and stopped blaming game mechanics for their failure.

 

Arguably that is still due to the MM, how it doesn't factor in player skills when trying to balance teams and instead just throws players together and hopes for the best. I'd argue that it shouldn't even be called a Match Maker, as it doesn't make matches, it's more like some kind of random team generator.

[ColonelPete]

But for some reason people complain about ships, tiers, ship types, special ability and not players.

For these people players do not win games, but the other other stuff, which is completly wrong.

[WeGreedy]

Why are we discussing skill-based matchmaking here?

OP suggested some difference between stock ships with untrained commanders and fully upgraded ones.

I don't know if that's a good idea. I see players abusing something like that.

[invicta2012]

We're discussing it because "la la la l2p" is the stock response of people who prefer to dismiss comments rather than think about the issues.

 

The OP does have a point and the MM could probably do with a review. -1/+2 ship MM has definite issues, particularly in the mid-tiers; partly because of the limited designs of the ships (mid-tier cruisers being glass cannons, especially) and because of power creep and ill-advised premium ships, which can leave Tier V players facing Tier IX planes. WG has already admitted as much, in the removal of WWI type A hulls from New Mexico and Bayern, because they were woefully underperforming. I've said this before but for my money ships should have a -1/+1 MM until they've been upgraded at least once and the captain is properly trained on the ship. 

[Cosseria]

Not going to happen, grinding stock ships has to be painful & punishing in order to push players to spend free xp and doubloons. Asking for a stock ships' kindergarten is asking WG to cut a source of income. 

[SinkTheOthersNotMe]

A L2P issue.

I am often bottle tier with my atago/pensa and so on...and I still manage to usually end up in the top 3 if not number 1.

As a CV or DD being bottom tier can be a bit tricky, as CA/CL and BB you have no excuse to not perform well.....

 

Oh and by the way, tomatoes are usually the first to shout about supposed 'issues' with the game which, in fact, are not real issues but just people who don't follow advices about gameplay.

This said, there are real issues, such as RN BB, but tomatoes don't say anything about those -> because after all they are comfortable with those since they can point and click with HE so fine.....

 

[P2Win]

Honestly from T8 and above it should be +-1. I hate seeing t8 ships in t10 matches.

[_DeathWing_]

@SEN_SEN_Channel_Portugue git gud

[The_Great_SCH]

MM is a bit broken, i had a T10 game where my team had 5 T8's and the enemy team had only 2. It was because MM tried to match divisions and not tiers and classes. Why?

[ColonelPete]

Because Divisions are stronger than Tier differences.

[DFens_666]

14 hours ago, HmS_Grimm said:

Since we are already talking about how stupid MM is, this is what I had in a game today = 5 enemy radar ships and I'm in a DD.

In the end we still won and all our DDs lived & finished in top 5! Remember you don't lose because of bad MM, you lose because of bad players!!

 

Oh ye, kinda seems like the MM i had lately once... but they enemy had 2 Radar we had 0 Radar, enemy had 2 DDs we had 1 DD and they had the better CV (player, unfurtunately cant argue with that in random MM). They had belfast, Kutuzov... The entire game was only hate in the chat, because everyone was blaming the others. I tried to say we got screwed by MM and our DD wasnt even a moron. Was lost after 2 mins.

 

Btw the l2p issue doesnt really make sense. So everyone defending that different roles of ships wont make any difference, what would happen if all players in one match got the same skilllevel? The team with more radar and more DDs will not win then? Might not be lost right at the start, sure, but they have a much higher chance for winning...

 

5 hours ago, 159Hunter said:

Because the +/- 2 MM doesn't need to be fixed, it isn't the issue, nor is it outdated. Sure it adds for some thresholds in grinding but we can't have everything be super easy?

 

Why would +/-1 MM be super easy mode? Imo the game should strive to bring as much same tier ships in one battle as possible. Should be the most balanced setup?

 

5 hours ago, ColonelPete said:

And DD numbers do not matter....

Inform yourself.

 

Here we go with that again. WG says something and its a law made by god. Did they show u the numbers? Actually i agree to that statement looking at DD numbers as a whole. F.e. 5 vs 4 DDs i definetely see the 5 DDs in a disadvantage because of lesser firepower. But noone with a working mind can say 1 vs 0 DDs is even remotely fair or balanced. If the enemy Team has 0 DDs u just got to get your team to be very aggressive. Usually some players of the team wont move anywhere. Some will do the usual stuff and can get killed by pushing fleet. Im talking about domination here i think WG did that too.

 

3 hours ago, SinkTheOthersNotMe said:

A L2P issue.

I am often bottle tier with my atago/pensa and so on...and I still manage to usually end up in the top 3 if not number 1.

 

If u are somewhat above average player its very easy to top the scoreboard in a lower tier ship. Reason ofc is u get more XP fighting higher tier ships. And ofc Cruiser tend to attack DDs more (or should atleast) which gives u even more XP coz of the % of damage u can deal to them. Topping the scoreboard being hightier is much harder.

 

Something to the maintopic aswell: Unfurtunately someone said aswell before, its a form of income for WG. Using freeXP of elite XP to make life easier in a new ship. So i dont think they will ever change that. Its either use them, play coop, or deal with it.

 

 

[ColonelPete]

Who should I believe?

The person with all data and facts or some random person on the forum who writes what he wants, which does not reflect my experience?