The TK system is just broken

[G3Virus]

EDIT: Updating this thread.

 

Well in my view WG did it again.

Two times in the last week a player my division has gone pink hitting me by mistake.

First time me and a div mate was in a cap, he hit me with a single HE shell doing no real damage but setting a fire on my BB, I had just repair fires from the enemy but had plenty of HP and still had 60 sec cooldown on repair.

Well what happens, he gets pink and gets almost mirror damage to death because I cant put the fire out.

How the hell is that suppose to help me? I mean it punishes me just as much, I lost a small amount of HP I could heal in my BB but he loses a ton because he goes pink.

I mean Im relying on him for support ffs and not WG to kill him and screw me over in the process.

Who is benefiting from this punishment I must ask because I dont see it.

Also why is TK dmg on flodding and fire connected to the dam repair button?

If I have repair available I can decide if I want to punish someone or not, In this case I could not forgive because it was burned.

So the act in it self is not punished but the end result, thats just retarded!

 

Now a week later a friend went pink trying to save my [edited], rely dam good player with 66% W/R and holds at least on ship raked no1 on the EU server.

I was fighting a DM, a DD and a BB, ate on torp from the DD in my rudder and had to rep a flooding.

My friend asked to send torps to deal with the BB in front of me, I sad fine.

But I was busy dodging stuff so I ran in to one of his torps because I could not pay attention to them and got another flooding.

At this point Im all but dead anyway and the enemy is seconds away from killing me, but he gets the kill with that torp/flodd and goes pink and takes some mirror damage..

 

Im not pissed at him because he was my ticket to surviving anyway but now his pink, gets mirror damage from the flodding and has way to little HP left in his DD and dies later.

Now I must ask, HOW THE HELL IS THIS BENEFITING ME?

If his punishment punishes the victim how the hell is that justice?

 

This is people I play with were we can average 66%+ or so WR, we had 8 strait wins yesterday, some rely good 60-67% W/R players that are getting punished for innocent mistakes like a HE shell hitting a mast or the one in a thousand torps causing a flooding when I dont have a repair.

Most people in clans playing in a div would gladly risk danger close fire for an enemy kill and maybe 100-1000hp friendly damage once and a while, the game is about winning after all and sitting like a pussy at the back wont win you crap.

 

And Im not the only one getting punished indirectly or directly by the new TK system.

 

I was all for a TK system back in the day, and a year ago the TK system was fine and where one would expect it to be.

Repeat offenders where punished, people shooting at someone over and over again got pink, then mirror damage, people sinking ships got pink etc, it more or less eliminated intentional team killers that only wanted to grief people.

The only ral complaint I have is that torpedoes still are allowed to do like 40K ish damage but fire, flooding will trigger TK status in seconds now, thats just stupid because theirs no WAY to forgive that even if you want to.

 

I cant see who is getting justice with this new system? Who are WG punishing an WHY?

A player that spent thousands of pounds on the game ended up AFK one game, for that he was sent to 10 games of co-op, 10 GAMES! I mean one game would make sens but 10! WTF is going on?

And as far as i can tell his not a team killer of abuser of the game rules, I mean people like that, whales are gonna think twice about spending more on the game.

WG needs to get of their high horse and stop playing GOD, they are still a company earning money the same way as everyone else, if they alienate there players like they are now with the TK system thats bad for business, but we know WG, they dont give a dam to they?

 

The howl TK system is so out of balance its retarded and why punish people in a devision? We know what where getting in to thats the howl point of the devission.

The only people now getting punished are people that makes a rare and often of little consequence mistake, the stray HE shell setting a fire, the one in a thousands games where a torps hits and floods a div mate.

We are nor BOT's and therefore not perfect so why punish people like this?

 

I mean I have played whit the same people for a year and the incidents that happened are off no real consequence overall, there just inconvenient but also a result of tight and high level game play where risks like that pays out in more rewards on avrage.

Well at least they did until WG decided to screw devisions over now.

 

If there was a forgive button I would use it ASAP because I GAIN NOTHING from having my own div getting mirror damaged to close to death for a minor incident.

Where in a clan, we use Team Speak, we well know what where doing and deal with any crap our selves and dont need WG to lecture us how to play the dam game!

 

The rules in a division at the very least needs to be a lot more relaxed because we cant have people going pink every weak for a single HE shell setting a fire when repair party is on cooldown.

 

The TK system was balanced a year ago, real Team Killers went away, so why dose it need addons like this that only punishes good players?

I mean it will punish morons torping from second line to but so did the old system and if anything allowing for less torp damage would have fixed such a problem instead of this mess we have now of a TK system

 

WHO IS WG PUNISHING WITH THE NEW TK SYSTEM AND WHY I ASK?

 

 

 

 

Old Original post

 

I just took out my Monarch.

 

Another Monarch is like 2-3 boat widths from me because everyone is trying fit in the same grid between two islands trying to get to the caps and Im trying to get out and push close to the B cap, a DD shows up and I shoot at it, on shell hits the other Monarchs mast for 2079 dmg.

Okay sorry for that but at least the DD ran the hell off and no one got torped.

 

Then I keep pushing, but I notice the chat spams that I should stop doing team damage, Well Im not a far as I can tell, one single hit in the howl game, game keeps spamming I should stop but wont tell me how? Its not like its giving me any options to stop what ever has gone wrong and i sit there in disbelief totally confused.

Then I get TONS and TONS off mirror damage and the confusion gets even bigger.

I look at the Monarch, he got one fire, I suppose my fire but I have no fire recorded by the game client and no more damage recorded by damage counter either.

 

I bleed out 47K of my 60K health in 30 seconds, then I go pink then I get nuked by a single DB squad  because the enemy CV sees that Im magically losing tons of health because of reasons.

 

I got ONE DAM HIT in the howl game and Im pink, 2079 dmg and sinks 2 min in to game.

I can fit the number of times I have been pink on my two hands in 10K+ games.

 

Who the hell programmed this crap? A normal sorry in chat should be enough player to player for a incident like that but now I learn that next time I shell run the hell away, let the enemy DD sink my BB teammate so I can live and not get punished by Wargaming and there stupid TK system because its utterly broken.

 

At the most I hit one friendly ship with a torp every 1-2K games and sad sorry for that and no pink penalty, I have never been punished like this before, its just stupid, even retarded because I could not believe something like this could slip trough QnA.

 

Im realy dont like to complain about TK punishment because I think a system needs to be in place but It cant be broken like this where crap escalates to this level and punish the howl team for a single stray shell hitting a ship.

 

I know secondarys cant do TK damage anymore but can they set a fire and if so can you get pink and sunk for that? If so TK system needs better rules defining what team damage realy is.

 

WG knows hot to piss of its players thats for sure.

 

EDIT: end game results say I did 8K dmg on him with one fire, just retarded how that equals 47K mirror dmg on me. Talk about screwing the team over with a broken system.

[RUSSIANBlAS]

You clicked fire...

 

 

[Jethro_Grey]

22 minutes ago, G3Virus said:

I just took out my Monarch.

 

Another Monarch is like 2-3 both widths from me because everyone is trying fit in the same grid between two islands trying to get to the caps and Im trying to get out and push close to the B cap, a DD shows up and I shoot at it, on shell hits the other Monarchs mast for 2079 dmg.

Okay sorry for that but at least the DD ran the hell off and no one got torped.

 

Then I keep pushing, but I notice the chat spams that I should stop doing team damage, Well Im not a far as I can tell, one single hit in the howl game, game keeps spamming I should stop but wont tell me how? Its not like its giving me any options to stop what ever has gone wrong and i sit there in disbelief totally confused.

Then I get TONS and TONS off mirror damage and the confusion gets even bigger.

I look at the Monarch, he got one fire, I suppose my fire but I have no fire recorded by the game client and no more damage recorded by damage counter either.

 

I bleed out 47K of my 60K health in 30 seconds, then I go pink then I get nuked by a single DB squad  because the enemy CV sees that Im magically losing tons of health because of reasons.

 

I got ONE DAM HIT in the howl game and Im pink, 2079 dmg and sinks 2 min in to game.

I can fit the number of times I have been pink on my two hands in 10K+ games.

 

Who the hell programmed this crap? A normal sorry in chat should be enough player to player for a incident like that but now I learn that next time I shell run the hell away, let the enemy DD sink my BB teammate so I can live and not get punished by Wargaming and there stupid TK system because its utterly broken.

 

At the most I hit one friendly ship with a torp every 1-2K games and sad sorry for that and no pink penalty, I have never been punished like this before, its just stupid, even retarded because I could not believe something like this could slip trough QnA.

 

Im realy dont like to complain about TK punishment because I think a system needs to be in place but It cant be broken like this where crap escalates to this level and punish the howl team for a single stray shell hitting a ship.

 

I know secondarys cant do TK damage anymore but can they set a fire and if so can you get pink and sunk for that? If so TK system needs better rules defining what team damage realy is.

 

WG knows hot to piss of its players thats for sure.

 

EDIT: end game results say I did 8K dmg on him with one fire, just retarded how that equals 47K mirror dmg on me. Talk about screwing the team over with a broken system.

 

Well, the system is not perfect, but i still would like to keep until WG implements a system that can distinguish between an accidental hit and a deliberate one...which means never ever.

 

A single (accidental(?)) stray shell from a friendly BB on my DD/ CL can remove quite a bit from my HP, so i consider it a good system.

And i use this mechanic every time i have a griefer in the game who shoots at me with HE - i let my ship burn until he bleeds out.

The reactions i get are hilarious.

 

 

tl:dr: it may be annoying for accidental hits, but until the game can distinguish whether a shot was accidental or not, the system works fine.

And one should always keep an eye on the surroundings, which can help make decisions whether to fire or not.

[Tubit101]

The system can positively be tweaked. For example by deciding the TK status on a percentage basis instead of merely judging by a shell hit - which can be anything from the low hundreds to several thousand HP in terms of damage. If I do 100 splash damage on a team member and that happens to kill them, that shouldn't necessarily result in a TK punishment.

 

That being said - do I care about turning pink for a couple of battles? Nah...

[G3Virus]

Well I knew exactly where he was, my reasoning was that unless RNG screws me over with bad dispersion I wont hit him.

 

So it was either shooting the DD to save him/me from torps or me just using him as a shield and save my self and let him eat all the torps that could have been launched.

 

So what would you have picked? Knowing that a 1% chance of a stray shell setting you on fire or running a much bigger chance of torps nuking you?

 

I think MOST players in this situation would take 2K shell and live with it rather then 8-12K per torp hit that might have landed.

Also most players in a normal acidental hit would say sorry and if the damage is small like 2K on a full HP BB the other player usually has no problems with it if it meant a overall better outcome

 

He didn't use repair I assume, I probably would not either, he used heal so he had 95% HP remaining after I sunk losing 47K, reason he didn't use repair was probably the torps that might be around.

 

I cant do crap about an acidental fire in a case like this, what I can do is play selfish, load AP all the time and just let my team melt to DD's instead anytime there's a CQB scenario.

 

I am one of those few BB's on the front-line, I got another one with me this time, crap happened and I got punished  for not being a boarder camper.

 

No I suppose I need to have my own corner of the map then not to get punished by stupid game mechanics and RNG Jesus crap.

[Commander_Cornflakes]

Stop being a HE-Pleb and shoot AP with your BBs. You can't set friends on fire with AP

Ap is better for DDs anyway ^^

[Jethro_Grey]

3 minutes ago, G3Virus said:

Well I knew exactly where he was, my reasoning was that unless RNG screws me over with bad dispersion I wont hit him.

 

So it was either shooting the DD to save him/me from torps or me just using him as a shield and save my self and let him eat all the torps that could have been launched.

 

So what would you have picked? Knowing that a 1% chance of a stray shell setting you on fire or running a much bigger chance of torps nuking you?

 

I think MOST players in this situation would take 2K shell and live with it rather then 8-12K per torp hit that might have landed.

Also most players in a normal acidental hit would say sorry and if the damage is small like 2K on a full HP BB the other player usually has no problems with it if it meant a overall better outcome

 

He didn't use repair I assume, I probably would not either, he used heal so he had 95% HP remaining after I sunk losing 47K, reason he didn't use repair was probably the torps that might be around.

 

I cant do crap about an acidental fire in a case like this, what I can do is play selfish, load AP all the time and just let my team melt to DD's instead anytime there's a CQB scenario.

 

I am one of those few BB's on the front-line, I got another one with me this time, crap happened and got punished me for not being a boarder camper.

 

No I suppose I need to have my own corner of the map then not to get punished by stupid game mechanics and RNG Jesus crap.

 

I would have most likely done the same, although i avoid getting to close to friendlys as it can be difficult to dodge torps when you have a 50k ton ship right next to you blocking your way.

 

As i said, in the same situation you were in, i'd most likely done the same and accepted the consequences.

Yes, i'd have been salty as hell afterwards, but in the end, the system does ( for me! ) more good then it does harm.

[vartain]

You chose to shoot while knowing you could hit a friendly. You chose to sail in a tight formation through narrow space instead of spacing out. Don't blame the game when it punishes your bad decisions. TK system is lenient enough as it is.

[G3Virus]

I spawned to most left of the map amongst our BB's, if anything he decided to run up against me on my rigth. I had to turn even further up north trying to maintaina good gap, didnt help that some on in a faster ship, 5+ kts decided to gut me off the bow on the left side.

 

The fact that it got cramped is the usual lets turn brains of an lemming and sequence up there where that player is because he must know what the hell his doing.

 

He might have the engine upgrade, I sure didn't because Im grinding the dam thing.

 

I did accept it as my fault, what I dont accept is that a repairable fire accident resulted in my death and TK status over something that most players can sort out them self in game.

[AnotherDuck]

12 minutes ago, G3Virus said:

I did accept it as my fault, what I dont accept is that a repairable fire accident resulted in my death and TK status over something that most players can sort out them self in game.

 

The damage you caused was the shell hit and the fire damage that resulted from it. It's not just a 2k hit. You can't expect a battleship to waste a repair on your mistake, especially with the heavy HE meta you're contributing to.

[G3Virus]

The HE meta IM contributing to? Its WG dam fault RN BB are HE spammers and Im an OLD player that shoots HE on DD's, AP on BB's the way it was suppose to work.

I would gladly take AP all day long and have HE removed from the line all together.

I shoot HE on a DD if its possible because it breaks modules just fine on DDs.

Yeas I can do 13K+ with AP on a DD to but forcing BB players to use brain and switching ammo type for DD's I think is a must for balance.

Monarch is a 35% fire chance ship, its high but its not as high as most of the other RN BB's with means AP is used a LOT more.

 

I just started the dam RN BB grind last week, sure I do like one ship in a day when ever I have a full set of dragon flags.

 

Dont tell me Im the problem with HE spam, if I was the boss at WG  BB's would have worse fire chance then US DD's so people could learn to use dam AP.

 

But now WG have broken the game and done the opposite of what most old players want.

Should that stop me and anyone else grind RN BB's? I sure want one for Clan battles because atm its the OP BB to have so its a necessity if anything.

Blame WG not me.

 

So dont blame me for using the right shells at the target in question.

 

But yea you go back and boarder surf and spam AP with bounces in your tirpitz or something, thats so fun to play.... Only game I lost today out of the 4 was this game where RNG Jesus and TK system punishes team players for doing what most good players would say is the best way of playing the game.

[Skyllon]

We all get it - you need to vent, but we have also all been there. Just take it on a chin and forget about it.

Yes, it would be nice if WG introduced 'forgive' option or some other mechanics where both parties involved in an accident can come to terms and cancel TK status.

Wishful thinking, I guess...

[AnotherDuck]

30 minutes ago, G3Virus said:

But yea you go back and boarder surf and spam AP with bounces in your tirpitz or something, thats so fun to play....

 

If you want to whine about how you think my interpretation is wrong and how it's an insult upon yoru honour and what not, that's fine. However, if you then turn it around and do the exact same thing without anything to even indicate it, you're nothing but a pot calling the kettle grey.

 

I can only say that you deserve everything the TK system gave to you, and probably more, because it's still not effective enough to teach you that what you did is a problem, and it needs to be punished. Whining about it just shows how little you've actually learned from your mistake.

[hellhound666]

ffs, you got yourself pink ... where is the big problem ... few battles and you'll be normal again unless you do that often ...

[lafeel]

And the moral of the story is: if friendlies are in the line of fire, don't shoot in the FIRST PLACE

[G3Virus]

28 minutes ago, AnotherDuck said:

 

If you want to whine about how you think my interpretation is wrong and how it's an insult upon yoru honour and what not, that's fine. However, if you then turn it around and do the exact same thing without anything to even indicate it, you're nothing but a pot calling the kettle grey.

 

I can only say that you deserve everything the TK system gave to you, and probably more, because it's still not effective enough to teach you that what you did is a problem, and it needs to be punished. Whining about it just shows how little you've actually learned from your mistake.

Yea I learned that I should play selfish, for my self just like everyone else, that will not get me in trouble. Thats the meta WG wants, the new players wants, the playerbase that will roule this game with there boarder hugging in the future. Have fun with that next time you scream for support and no one wants to help becsue they dont want to be punished for it.

8 minutes ago, hellhound666 said:

ffs, you got yourself pink ... where is the big problem ... few battles and you'll be normal again unless you do that often ...

I can usually go 1-3K games with out hitting something with a torp, Got more then 1K games per pink at the very least.

 

But getting the equivalent of a death sentience for having a broken tail light you missed is stupid.

 

I can live with being pink but my team lost, I could have done so much more, my W/R is not exactly bad. But WG decided to screw everyone over a scratch.

I care about team play and I care about the team Im playing with and I do everything to win for them.

If thats not wanted then what the hell are we playing for?

[SEN_SEN_Channel_Portugue]

I fully agree with the OP ! Man, you have all my sympathy ! I got punished RIGHT NOW (5 min ago ! ) and I got PINK status for 15 games bc of this fraking unprofessional programming !

 

I say  absolutely unprofessional, yes - and I am very soft when I say this considering my case. I am uploading the replay  vid on my tube account right now, so please all of you watch the vid at the bottom !

 

My case :

 

I was "guarding" a friendly Missouri ,  then we spot a dd on torpedo range : Missouri fire at him, miss him, I fire to, hit him ( not big deal) then the fraking Missouri skipper panic and start an hard turn in my direction !

 

I noticed him coming at me ( we sail parallel before that) and, like you can see, I do everything to avoid the collision - I turn hard also, on same direction, reducing the speed.

He apologize to me, then he thanks me for chasing away that enemy dd , so I continue to guard him / keep that dd at bay.

 

His bow still touch my stern, I am now almost perpendicular to his ship, moment when I enter on binocular view and I discharge another volley at that dd. We get both the TK advertisement, ok with that.

 

After some seconds, I receive another TK message, then more, then I start bleeding HP even nobody fire at me. I start to think "wtf, was some friendly near that red dd I hit by mistake ? wtf ??? "

 

But no, guys, no  - was no friendly there, was our Missouri who somehow catch fire - I suppose my end turret hit his bow when he bank me with his bow.- again, I was on binocular view and ALMOST perpendicular on his ship, with NO OBSTACLE (no parts of his ship on my view !!! I do NOT shot TROUGH his ship ! In fact, I was waiting to have a free field of aim before shooting at that dd !

You can notice I hold my fire until our course separate and I get at almost 90º of him - moment when I enter binocular view sure I cant damage him !

 

Even so, he burn for some seconds, and on mid time - (seconds!) my ship its literary "deleted" by "TK damage" and I get TK status for no less then 15 games !

And I cant remember when I hit someone last time with a torp or a shell !

 

I found this TK system in-place atm to be badly broken, since you can get screw so easy by someone else mistake...

 

 

[BrusilovX]

8 minutes ago, SEN_SEN_Channel_Portugue said:

I found this TK system in-place atm to be badly broken, since you can get screw so easy by someone else mistake...

 

 

Before you 'rubbed' the team mate they were not on fire.  As you zoomed in and then fired there appears to be no further shells incoming.  You then zoom out and your team mate is now on fire presumably form your shells.

 

How many shells did you fire and how many do you see in the air?  The difference is what you hit your team mate with.

 

What is broken about that?

 

[SEN_SEN_Channel_Portugue]

what is broken ? He turn on me, ramm me even I do everything to avoid his ramming, I wait to separate from collision, until I got him out of my field of view, (watch the vid ! ) then he catch fire and I get "deleted" with 15 games TK status for HIS mistake ?? Did you notice when he apologize and thank me for ?? If you see nothing wrong here, then I cant argue anymore...

 

And I do not "rubbed" him, he was "rubbing" me, I do everything to avoid the "love hug" - but seems you skip that part...

[Commander_Cornflakes]

The ramming didn't matter at all. You set him on fire and got punished for that. Working as intended.

[BruceRKF]

Your rear turret hit the Missouri, in this case you could have fired just your front turrets until you wear completely clear of her. I don't see anything wrong with the team adamage penalty system in this case. As others have arleady said: The system is far from perfect, but it does more good than harm.

[lafeel]

Plus, is it really THAT hard to drop out of aiming view for just a moment to see if your turrets do clear the Mo or not?

[G3Virus]

34 minutes ago, SEN_SEN_Channel_Portugue said:

I fully agree with the OP ! Man, you have all my sympathy ! I got punished RIGHT NOW (5 min ago ! ) and I got PINK status for 15 games bc of this fraking inept programming !

 

 

My case was almost identical, I was in the position you where 7 sec in to that to that video when i fired  BUT he was parallel relative to me so no turning in to me like in your case, I was in fact turning away increasing speed since he was slowing down.

He just like me figured more separation was a good thing, I had the problem with another ship to my left about 5-6kts faster running past my bow just before that forcing me to slow down and leaving him room because he didnt seem to understand he was catching up to me.

 

I must have hit the other Monarch with mine in one of the masts, I was zoomed out, then the DD got spotted (9.7km out If i recall) so I figured I was clear enough and took the split second decision to assist becsue waiting any longer the DD would have drooped torps and gotten behind the island in the B cap and everything would have gotten much more difficult.

RNG punished me with a stray shell in to a mast thats what it looked like from the traces because I zoomed out as soon as I fired.

 

You could have fitted two more Monarchs between us so in most cases it would have been a none issue.

 

If I know Im getting rammed I wont shoot but etch situation is unique so that can happen. The thing is the an accident like this is usually considered a paint scratch and as long as the objective is accomplished most sound of mind players dont have a problem with it and its sorted out in chat a few seconds later.

 

Its not like it happens often or intentional but not shooting can mean you lose one ship and the game in the end so a split second decision has to be made if the pros outweigh the cons.

 

I took the calculated risk that I would not hit a mast, I did. Even so the DD was forced away and ran for cover in smoke away from us once we fired our guns at him.

 

But the real big problem I am having with it is that it screws the howl team over over a paint scratch.

 

People was getting TK status over secondarys for the same reasons, well some people figured it should be turned off, even WG did not agree for once and removed TK damage from secondary shells.

[AnotherDuck]

Setting allies on fire and then whining about it isn't any better than a team torper whining about someone not dodging your torps.

 

You fired; it's your responsibility. Now deal with the punishment you so rightly deserve.

 

If the TK system worked properly you should be more punished for it, but as it is, it's flawed so it shouldn't deal out that severe punishments. Setting someone on fire is not "just a paint scratch". It's either doing a ton of damage, or forcing a repair, which will in many cases just mean a lot more damage dealt. All because of your fault.

[SEN_SEN_Channel_Portugue]

Problem is the TK system should "see" what an real damage means -  how much HP did you think my fire have done in 10 - 15 sec ? I bet was less then 1000-1500 HP ! But again, 99% of this damage was an fire not from hit, and I get "punished" for his mistake 32k (!!!) that.s its not double or quadruple not 10x or 20x more but 30x more - an TK mechanic like this force one to play away from friendly ships "just to be sure" - a thing I will do from now on .