[TPG] MiniBrit Players 63 posts 12,079 battles Report post #1 Posted September 25, 2017 MiniBrit’s Complete Carrier Guide o7 Despite the state carriers are currently in, I thoroughly enjoy them and the gameplay that accompanies them, however this is not a common sentiment and I can understand why; CVs might as well be a separate game, with the different UI, new controls and all the stats you’re used to don’t matter anymore. It is quite daunting, and the point of this guide is to fully explain CV gameplay, tactics and strategy from tier IV to tier X. This guide can be split up into four main sections- 1) Striking a Battleship or a Heavy Cruiser 2) Striking a Destroyer or a Light Cruiser 3) Controlling the Airspace 4) Recommendations Each of these sections contains a very detailed account of all its aspects from USN, IJN, AS, Stock and Strike. This is just a very basic overview, and there are many subtopics I cover, with the aim of making you a better CV player by the end of it. Striking a Battleship or a Heavy Cruiser -Deciding on a target The first thing you ought to do as a CV is to look at the team line-ups, avoid BBs in divisions or with good AA. If you’re at a lower tier it can be useful to find out which BBs have Catapult Fighters and which ones don’t. -Finding your target Now that you have a list of optimal targets, you can either spot, or let DDs spot. At this point, if you are uncomfortable being so close to enemy AA bubbles (or even in them) its fine to let your DDs spot, so long as you keep the enemy CV from counter spotting them. -When to strike This will be more a Do and Don’t list of situations to strike in, so instead of waffle I’ll just give you a straight up list J DO NOT STRIKE: -BB is near a cruiser with DFAA -BB is behind a line of ships -BB is in a group of high AA ships -BB has enemy fighters nearby and ready to defend him -BB is at a bad angle (we’ll get to that soon) -BB is guaranteed to die, whether it be flooding, fire or even just concentrated fire from surface ships. DO STRIKE: -BB is isolated but not irrelevant (camping A1) -BBs in a thin cluster of ships -BB is near a cruiser with weak AA, or no DFAA -BB is a high priority (has a big impact on the game) As you can probably tell, the main points to take away are to be in enemy AA for as little time as possible, and to avoid getting into a situation where your TBs get panicked and drop in a wide spread. -How to strike (tips and tricks) -Select all TBs/DBs and click in the middle of them to “sync” them up, being able to stack torpedoes/bombs -If the enemy fighters are going for a strafe, in the last Second turn your DBs/TBs around, in the direction that the Fighters came from -If you’re IJN, once the DB payload is dropped, you can outrun any other aircraft of the same tier, this is useful for Scouting against AS/stock USN CVs. -IJN has a faster turnaround than USN, so even if the opponent is AS USN, you can sneak a strike in here and there if you ruin his fighters. -If enemy fighters chase your DBs/TBs, split them up into Multiple directions, then converge on the target to prevent A total strafe of your planes. -Don’t cross drop BBs and large targets, you will lose out on Potential damage. -Use squads that dropped their payloads to bait enemy fighters To the opposite side of the map as to where your target is. -Feint moving TBs to one side of a target, the switch to the Other side in the last moment to make him commit to a full Turn. -If enemy fighters are chasing your DBs/TBs they are Predictable, and can be strafed easily. -Doubling up torp squads and coming from the rear angle is the Best way to guarantee hits on a large sluggish target. -Approaching a CA who has DFAA with TBs spooks them, only use One squad to do this, as it is essentially ding dong ditch but If you get caught, you lose striking power -Another way to strike a CA with DFAA is to send a lone DB Squad. Either he blows his DFAA, or you get fire, and even Under panic you will get enough hits to get damage and flood, But beware against god tier AA and higher tiered CAs. -How to strike Since there are multiple loadouts, I will cover these tactics Separately. For a general rule, USN strike and stock are very Similar to Japanese Strike, Stock and AS. USN AS is the odd one Out, as well as high tier Japanese strike. I would also like to Get a couple exceptions out the way. J Exceptions -If a target is low enough that only on bomb squad, or torp Squad is required then do not waste an entire strike on them. -If a target is low enough that the combined alpha of all your Arsenal can kill it, go for all at once, as it reduces plane Losses, which is essential in drawn out games where reserves Tend to run out. -If your striking capabilities limit you to only one wave, or Have no fire/flood capabilities (AP bombs) Here is a list: [Saipan (AS, Strike), Hosho, Enterprise (AP), Graf Zeppelin (AP), AS Bogue, AS Independence] For these options, unless one of the other exceptions apply, It is best to strike with everything in one wave. Generic Strike package The generic strike package consists of one torpedo bomber wave And a dive bomber wave. This can be IJN tier 6-8 is 2TB 2 DB or The USN strike package of 1TB and xDB, and a few others. These Are just some examples. It must be said that an exception may Apply, so be sure to read them over, however assuming you’re All set and ready to kill some ships, here is how. I will use Concepts from here to explain the other striking options, So you might want to read this first, even if it’s not for you. Distractions: If you have fighters to spare (e.g strike IJN up against strike USN) you can lead them in over the target before your strike Planes in case the BB does not manually select a squad, as The automatic AA just chooses the closes target. You can also Do this with spent TBs, but don’t unless you have the planes to Spare. Wave 1: The point of this wave is to trigger their damage control, so It is best to use TBs, since flooding spooks the crap out of any BB, and is far worse than fire as it reduces speed. Approach: You want to be coming at the BB from the side, so that you can Drop your torpedoes slightly from the back, but not so much That the BB can simply turn and go in between them. If the side Is covered by AA, you can come from the front and go to one Side, but if their AA is good, you risk losing planes. Drop: Using Alt (tier 6+) or just auto dropping if you are restricted You must drop the torpedoes as close to the target as possible. The IJN fuse is 3 seconds, and the USN fuse is 3.5 seconds, but After a while you will get used to the dropping distance, but I recommend hovering over the target to see the auto drop. This should give you an idea of how much lead to give at that Distance, so just extrapolate to a shorter lead. Escape: It could well be that a strong AA presence moved in between Your target and you, or enemy fighters have come to intercept. Either way, unless your path is clear do not press F but use Shift + Click on the mini map, the battlefield or (M) the big Map to manually draw a route home, ending in Shift + F so that The planes do indeed end up in your hangar. Otherwise just Select the units and hit F in case they did not automatically Start returning to your CV (they should). Wave 2: The point of this wave is to get permanent fire on your target. Do not initiate this wave until the target has blown damage Control (damage will stop ticking from the flood). If you Didn’t get flooding, see the USN AS strike method if you have Multiple DB squads left over. If not, just dump payload And if the BB repairs let your team know so that they can Use HE to set him on perma-fire, as it is called. Approach: Unlike TBs, you want to approach at a zero-degree angle with DBs (other than GZ TII’s perfect circle) so that the drop Ellipse (We’ll call it drop circle) is most in line and flush With your target. This means you either go directly to the Front or the back of the ship. The TBs may have led to the BB Turning and running away, in which case enduring more AA than Necessary must be endured, otherwise do your best to approach From the front. Escape: Same as Wave 1. USN AS package Other than the exceptions, you have two or more DB squads at Your disposal. In terms of striking power this is very weak, But you will be surprised at the amount of damage you can deal With such a puny loadout. Wave 1: Take all but one DB on this trip, as once you have struck, AA Mounts will be destroyed and the lesser number of planes in the Last squad will not be focused so hard. The point of this wave Is to deal alpha damage, and to set multiple fires, so in case The target may have fire prevention (A popular BB skill that Merges the two fire points on the superstructure into one) you Should aim for the front or rear of the BB, and I you have two DB squads at your disposal and are confident, you can spread Them out, to maybe even get all of the fires ticking. Approach: Same as the previous DB approach. Escape: Same as the previous DB escape. Wave 2: The target may leave the first fires unrepaired, in which case Job done, you lowered his HP considerably and you can now go in And set a bonus fire or two and cash in on that sweet damage. If the target blew his damage control unit, this is your chance To get a perma-fire. Aim the same as wave 1. Approach: Same as the previous DB approach. Escape: Same as the previous DB escape. Tier IX-X IJN Strike package The only difference here is you have access to 3 TBs, so Against weaker AA ships where 2 squads are enough to get Through the bubble, you can reserve a TB squad to maybe cause A perma-flood as well as the perma-fire. This is up to you to Judge based on experience with different AA bubbles. Other than Withholding a TB squad, carry out the approach, strike and Escape exactly as the first TB squads. Striking a Destroyer or a Light Cruiser -Deciding on a target As with BBs, you should look at the line ups and look for DDs without DFAA, with sluggish steering and also DDs that can bully your own DDs. Killing DDs is all about making your DDs’ Lives easier. For Light Cruisers, you should not prioritise them over CAs, BBs and DDs since it is easier for your capital ships to nuke them with AP volleys. For this reason, I will focus more on DDs, but I will include how to deal with CLs. You will only strike a CL if you have to, so I won’t talk about Finding your target etc. -Finding your target You must spot your target, and using fighters to do this will work, but if your DDs need the enemy DD gone quickly, spotting with your TBs is in order, as it gives the DD less time to react and smoke up, but do not do this if there is a strong AA ship nearby, as that will easily foil your plan. -When to strike Same as for BBs, here is a Do and Don’t list, except some of these don’t apply to CLs since you won’t be targeting them unless it’s an emergency: DO NOT: -Strike a DD/CL while DFAA is active -Strike a DD/CL in smoke, unless they ran aground and panic smoked -Strike a DD behind a line of ships -Strike a DD/CL when there is a more important target to strike DO: -Strike a DD that over extended and has no support -Strike a DD that is making your DDs’ lives hell -Strike a DD that your cruisers can’t kill (cover etc) As usual, your main aim is to kill the biggest threat, and to stay away from big AA threats. You do not have to strike DDs, you can just spot them for your team. In fact, many times this is the better option, but it takes longer, so if there is a hurry you’re better off just doing it yourself. -How to strike (tips and tricks) -DD DFAA is very short and doesn’t have insane DPM so you can easily bait it out and wait the 40 seconds (unless they have DFAA mod) without losing many (if any) planes -Gunboats rely on the HP to project their power in caps, prioritise them to remove their advantage. -If there is a smoke cloud, odds are a DD is in it, if you wait for it to dissipate you’ll have yourself a defenceless DD to strike. -DDs are usually very far forwards, so your TBs/DBs do not have to travel far to get to them, so a small distraction is enough to buy you the time needed to delete a DD. -High tier US and Russian DDs may have DFAA, so be careful when Striking them. As well, Russian DDs can easily outrun Cross drops, so drop more from the side -For USN CVs, you can use the threat of torps to make a DD turn into an island, where it will easily be struck by your DBs. -How to strike There are only four different ways to kill DDs with planes. The First is the 2TB cross drop, used from tier IV-X IJN CVs, Then there is the 3TB cross drop, which is exclusive to tier IX-X IJN CVs. Lastly, we have the two USN options, the 1TB drop and the DB drop. I will not delve into much detail other than the approach and carrying out the strike, since they are just DDs. These tactics can equally be used against a CL, since they are very similar to DDs in manoeuvrability. 1TB drop The problem with this drop is that you have no power to make The DD turn so that you can get a drop on them, and their Rudder shift times are small enough that you can’t feint one Side to strike from the other side. Approach: It is best to use this strike whilst a DD is engaged in combat With your ships, as they will be dodging, so you can use these Manoeuvres to strike when the DD is in a full turn, even then There is a chance they can dodge, or just outrun your torpedoes Which is why this is not a preferred method. Due to the massive Fuse time of 3.5 seconds, unless you must drop a DD with torps, Your TB is way better spent on a BB or CA Drop: The problem with the drop is you have to torp close enough to Not give them time to dodge, but equally you must torp far Enough away to give the torpedoes time to arm, and since this Is predominantly a US CV tactic, your fuse is longer, so Finding the sweet spot is very hard and often relies on luck. 2TB drop The generic cross drop used from tier IV to X by the Japanese Line. It is highly recommended you run torpedo acceleration as Many DDs can outrun 35kts, but 40 is a lot harder to outrun. Approach: You want to sync your TBs, and approach the DD from behind, Due To DDs’ high speed, I highly recommend using auto drop since it Also adjusts for any turns they make. Don’t mind flying over a Japanese, German or even main Russian line DD, but when it Comes to USN DDs and alternate line Russian DDs, the AA is Strong enough to kill a plane or two if you approach across Them. Drop: Imagine there is a line Running through the DD, you want to set the TBs to attack from 45 degrees off this centre line, on either side. That’s 4:30 And 7:30 on a clock for the hour hand. Of course it doesn’t have to be so precise, but the idea is to get the torpedoes at 90 Degrees from each other, leaving the DD trapped. 3TB drop This is literally just the 2TB drop but with one more TB squad, which makes it even harder for a DD to escape. Approach: Same as the 2 TB drop, remember to sync up to make the approach Smoother. Drop: Same as the 2 TB drop, but with another TB squad dropping along that centre line. DB drop I would only recommend this for USN CVs because the Japanese bombs do pitiful damage, and you have a cross drop available anyway, so there is no point in wasting your fire sources on doing maybe 2k to a DD. Approach: Due to the dexterity of DDs, you want to come in from behind, As getting the angle right from the front is nigh on impossible And it only gives you one shot. Sync up your bomb squads, and Go over DD AA if you want, it doesn’t matter, one or two less Bombs is less disastrous as one or two less torps. Unlike torpedoes, bombs suffer a severe penalty for auto dropping, so That option is off the table. Drop: Once your DBs are synced up and you are behind the DD, you want To manual click in front of it as fast as possible. The DD is Moving, so keep clicking in front of the DD (one and a bit DD Lengths in front) so that once your DBs have reached the arming Point, there is considerable lead already, and you will nuke The DD. Controlling the Airspace -Protecting against strikes If you have fighters, your primary goal is to prevent the enemy CV from striking your ships. You don’t have to pull off any mad Strafes or be a unicum duellist, you just have to be able to Significantly cripple the enemy CV’s striking power. -Scouting Whether you use fighters or spent DBs (IJN only), scouting Enemy DDs, ships, torpedoes and sometimes even foiling ambushes Is an invaluable service only you can provide your team with. The Japanese line is undisputed king of scouting with DBs, but At some tiers, USN fighters are faster than IJN Fighters, so it Is not as simple as spot and kite. -Air supremacy Your fighters must also prevent the enemy’s fighters from Carrying out these duties. As such, whoever has control of the Airspace gets to decide what happens when. Air Supremacy is key To landing strikes when and where you want to. Strafing What is a strafe? A strafe is the fighters answer to a TB/DB’s manual drop. It Concentrates a lot of damage in a predetermined line, which Once committed upon cannot be changed, so strafes have to be Planned carefully. They can also be used to escape fighter lock But you lose one plane (saipan excluded) and a bit of ammo. When do I use a strafe? Here is a list of situations where strafing is the best option: -You have a fighter disadvantage over neutral/enemy airspace And need to kill some fighters quickly -The enemy strike planes (DB/TB) are headed to your fleet, but You cannot tag them all, strafing will mow them down quickly, But beware it will not panic the spreads. -Enemy is micro managing a strike or something, and they left Some of their planes unattended. A strafe will make short work Of this lapse in concentration. Tagging What is tagging? Tagging is when you click on an enemy squad. If they are Fighters, you enter fighter lock until you or the opponent Either lose your planes or strafe out (If an enemy tags you, You have to tag his planes back before being able to strafe Out, this is a bug) If you tag enemy strike planes you will Reduced their speed by 25% and your fighters will deal a Constant DPM against them. This also makes their spreads panic. When do I use tagging? You want to use tagging on enemy fighters when you can Overpower them, but only in neutral/friendly airspace. You’d Be surprised as to how much of a difference AA bubbles make, so Make sure it’s friendly. You want to prioritise tagging TBs Over DBs, since they pose a bigger threat to your ships. Once a Strike squad has dropped their payload, tag another squad. Dogfighting In this section I will cover all the tactics and strategies I Use to keep Air supremacy over equal, lesser and more powerful Fighter loadouts. I will only talk about tactics with only 1 or 2 squads at my disposal, since anything beyond that is the same Tactic but with more planes. 1 squad You will have only one squad for up to tier 8 Stock USN CVs, Tier IX-X strike USN CVs and tier IV-VI Strike/stock IJN CVs. Let’s get per tier 6 over with since it’s straight forward. Tier IV-V: You cannot strafe, make it your priority to bait enemy planes Over friendly AA and get them in fighter lock. They cannot Strafe out, so make sure you can win since this is a fight to The death. It is the same deal for 2 squads, so there will be No need for a separate paragraph explaining that. Tier VI-X: Strafing is the game, and you must be aggressive to get strafes In with only one squad, you are not flexible, and many times Must in fact rely on friendly AA bubbles and tagging, forcing The enemy CV into losing one plane by strafing out. You’re Better off keeping the squad to escort your strikes and to Thwart enemy strikes. A tactic I use a lot is to play dumb, To feint strafes and to get the enemy CV to go into a strafe To counter my “strafe” then all I have to do is turn and watch Their planes burn with my own counter strafe. 2 squads Tier VI-X There are many more tactics, so I will break it down into Separate descriptions for each tactic, since there aren’t any “official” names I’ll just name them whatever. -Bait ‘n’ Switch This one is easy and simple to pull off, but if the enemy Knows their stuff, they can turn this into a massacre of your Planes by none other than you. With one squad, you tag their Fighters, then line up a strafe with the other squad. In the Last moment, strafe out of fighter lock, this keeps their squad Stuck for a few seconds, where your planes will strafe them. This is well worth losing one plane over, however if you commit To the strafe, and the enemy strafes out of the fighter lock, Your planes are stuck, and will die to your own strafe. That Is embarrassing. -Bait ‘n’ Feint Same as the bait ‘n’ switch, but you will not actually strafe. Approach the fighter lock with your second squadron, and fly up To it. This only works on skilled opponents, as they must be Attentive to notice this. They will of course have to strafe Out to save the rest of their squad from your “strafe”, and “trap” your plane sin your own strafe. All they did though, was Kill one of their planes and lose some ammo. You can the re tag Them with the squad that feinted a strafe. -Strike Bait If the enemy CV is trying to kill your strike planes, use the Predictive flight route to set up a strafe. Simple and effective. -Counter Bait Wait for them to try and bait ‘n’ switch you, then strafe out before the enemy does, but this is really like train dodging, and you could be either too early or too late, so get the timing right. -*Teleports behind you* Using one fighter squad, drawn the enemy fighter away from his fleet, then come in from behind with your second squad. Play very aggressively and you can usually get him into a strafe, so you counter strafe, or you just strafe him outright. -The double team Simple. Isolate a fighter squad and tag him with both planes. This I difficult as he might mistake you for going in for a strafe, so be tactful with the approach. These are just a few standard moves, when it comes to a battle I usually combined them, or do whatever hurt his fighters most on the spot. Think of it as an RTS mini game. For the lower tiers the most important thing is to keep your reserves up, so be as resourceful as possible. Recommendations: These are just my recommendations, from personal experience with carriers. If you don’t think the captain builds suit you then you can look in the wiki for recommended captain points- it’s your game so do with it as you will. Other than Propulsion mod. 2 the upgrades are unanimous as are the signals. I run PM.2 in case I’m caught out by a CV sniping me so I can get to speed as fast as possible. Loadouts: USN: Bogue – AS Independence - Stock Ranger – Stock Lexington – Strike Essex – Strike Midway – Stock IJN: Zuiho – Strike Ryujo – Strike Hiryu – Strike Shokaku – Strike Taiho – Strike Hakuryu – Strike Upgrades: Air Groups Mod. 1 Air Groups Mod. 2 Air Groups Mod. 3 Damage Control System Mod. 1 Propulsion Mod. 2 Concealment System Mod. 1 Captain Skills: This is assuming 19-point captain, but if not, acquire them in the order they are listed. USN/IJN Randoms Aircraft Servicing Expert Torpedo Acceleration Torpedo Armament Expertise Air Supremacy Concealment Expert Advanced Firing Training Dogfighting Expert IJN Ranked Aircraft Servicing Expert Torpedo Acceleration Torpedo Armament Expertise Air Supremacy Advanced Firing Training Basic Firing Training Adrenaline Rush Signals: JWU IX VL NES Grinding: If you feel like the grind is taking a long time, don’t worry. Carriers have a multiplier that makes them earn less xp and credits than other ships, so feel free to mount xp signals to make the process less arduous, especially before tier 6. Unless A hull give you more hangar space, I usually skip it since CVs earn to little silver, I also do not buy the Flight Control Module I’m not using. Hopefully you found this guide helpful and were able to take something away from it J -MiniBrit 6 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[-GWP-] TheBierat Beta Tester 74 posts 1,854 battles Report post #2 Posted September 25, 2017 Thanks ;) this is really helpfull 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[WG] Commander_Cornflakes WG Staff, WoWs Wiki Team 3,711 posts 15,727 battles Report post #3 Posted September 25, 2017 Good guide There are three points that need my comment though ^^ 1 hour ago, MiniBrit said: -Don’t cross drop BBs and large targets, you will lose out on Potential damage. You will lose more damage if you don't cross drop large targets that do know how to maneuver, especially if they have at least good AA. If the enemy turns, you have to either drop from a bad angle (-> less damage) or fly trough his AA to get a good angle which will result in quite some planes getting shot down (-> less damage as well). 1 hour ago, MiniBrit said: I would only recommend this for USN CVs because the Japanese bombs do pitiful damage, and you have a cross drop available anyway, so there is no point in wasting your fire sources on doing maybe 2k to a DD. 2k might sound pitiful for a BB, but for a DD it is ~10% of his hp which is quite a lot. Adding damaged modules (torpedo launchers that have to reload again, rudder, engine) + permanent fire(s) and unrepairable damaged modules by sending bombers one after another make them a big threat for DDs, if RNG doesn't hate you with bombs dispersion And my personal opinion about captain skills: I would not recommend AFT or BFT, because you have fighters to defend yourself and 4 or 3 skillpoints can be used to strengthen your planes some more by getting Expert Rear Gunner, Evasive Maneuver (yes, I'm a fan of that skill) or Demolition Expert for more fire. And my not personal opinion about captain skills: Why would you take AR? First, losing hp in CV should be rare. Second, AR fastens reload of main guns, torpedos and secondaries, not planes or AA guns. Doesn't seem to be worth 2 points to get better secondary reload on a CV :D Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[AAO] rnat Players 1,597 posts 21,844 battles Report post #4 Posted September 25, 2017 26 minutes ago, Commander_Cornflakes said: Expert Rear Gunner, Evasive Maneuver (yes, I'm a fan of that skill) or Demolition Expert 1) Mostly for shooting down catapult fighters and annyoing scrubs that don't strafe, not much use otherwise. 2) Makes landings take forever and makes returning planes easy to strafe down (and significantly reduces carrier "rof" if not micro'd sufficiently. 3) The lowest base fire chance on any HE bomb is 108% (Kaga), so an additional 2% is completely insignificant. (c.f. http://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Aerial_Combat#Dive_Bombers) 26 minutes ago, Commander_Cornflakes said: You will lose more damage if you don't cross drop large targets that do know how to maneuver, especially if they have at least good AA. Against bbs (and similarly clunky ships) setting an alpha-drop is much better. Since the rudder-shift is reasonably slow you can see which turn the target is initiating and change your aim accordingly. A cross-drop will cost you ~40% of your dmg (w. 2 squads) so it's not worth it against anything you can reliably hit otherwise. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[TPG] MiniBrit Players 63 posts 12,079 battles Report post #5 Posted September 25, 2017 2 minutes ago, Commander_Cornflakes said: If the enemy turns, you have to either drop from a bad angle (-> less damage) or fly trough his AA to get a good angle which will result in quite some planes getting shot down (-> less damage as well). 6 minutes ago, Commander_Cornflakes said: Good guide There are three points that need my comment though ^^ You will lose more damage if you don't cross drop large targets that do know how to maneuver, especially if they have at least good AA. If the enemy turns, you have to either drop from a bad angle (-> less damage) or fly trough his AA to get a good angle which will result in quite some planes getting shot down (-> less damage as well). 2k might sound pitiful for a BB, but for a DD it is ~10% of his hp which is quite a lot. Adding damaged modules (torpedo launchers that have to reload again, rudder, engine) + permanent fire(s) and unrepairable damaged modules by sending bombers one after another make them a big threat for DDs, if RNG doesn't hate you with bombs dispersion And my personal opinion about captain skills: I would not recommend AFT or BFT, because you have fighters to defend yourself and 4 or 3 skillpoints can be used to strengthen your planes some more by getting Expert Rear Gunner, Evasive Maneuver (yes, I'm a fan of that skill) or Demolition Expert for more fire. And my not personal opinion about captain skills: Why would you take AR? First, losing hp in CV should be rare. Second, AR fastens reload of main guns, torpedos and secondaries, not planes or AA guns. Doesn't seem to be worth 2 points to get better secondary reload on a CV :D About AR, if you look at the symbol for it, there is a plane with a timer one it, I am certain it affects planes, (source?) and after a few pot shots or a failed strike my HP is a lot lower. in randoms it is not rare for me to end the game hanging on to my life by a small thread. I think the one thing I must strongly disagree with is evasive maneuvers for IJN, because of the bombers spotting once payload has been dropped. this skill inhibits them from being faster than every other plane in the game, but I can see this coming in handy on a USN ship :) The reason for AFT and BFT is because especially in ranked, CV sniping is a thing, even in randoms I regularly have the odd nut job try to snipe me, and even with DFAA the AA feels underwhelming, but for ranked (ESPECIALLY under tier 8 with no DFAA) I see these AA skills as very valuable to counter the inevitable snipe. The reason id give concealment up is to have an early warning for sniping and DDs, the further the range the earlier I get a warning that someone is coming for me, and who needs more than 10.8 concealment on a CV anyway? About DDs, using 2/3 bomber squads to get 2k is a waste when you can use 2/3 torp squads to kill the thing in one go. If they get lucky and don't die I will follow up, but that's only plan B and since DD Dam con reloads so fast its hardly worth it for breaking modules unless they are in plain sight of allies in which case just spotting would be better. About the cross dropping, if you cross drop a BB you limit yourself to only 1 hit from one salvo and 3 from another, but if you approach correctly or even just from the front and feint, the AA does not do much to the planes, but doing a cross drop (which would have to be done from behind) would make your planes be in enemy AA for a lot longer right? soz for long post :I Attached is the AR symbol (10/10 research :P) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[HOO] Fat_Maniac [HOO] Players 2,337 posts 4,238 battles Report post #6 Posted September 25, 2017 Nice Post @MiniBrit 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[WG] Commander_Cornflakes WG Staff, WoWs Wiki Team 3,711 posts 15,727 battles Report post #7 Posted September 25, 2017 9 minutes ago, MiniBrit said: About AR, if you look at the symbol for it, there is a plane with a timer one it, I am certain it affects planes, (source?) and after a few pot shots or a failed strike my HP is a lot lower. in randoms it is not rare for me to end the game hanging on to my life by a small thread. I think the one thing I must strongly disagree with is evasive maneuvers for IJN, because of the bombers spotting once payload has been dropped. this skill inhibits them from being faster than every other plane in the game, but I can see this coming in handy on a USN ship :) The reason for AFT and BFT is because especially in ranked, CV sniping is a thing, even in randoms I regularly have the odd nut job try to snipe me, and even with DFAA the AA feels underwhelming, but for ranked (ESPECIALLY under tier 8 with no DFAA) I see these AA skills as very valuable to counter the inevitable snipe. The reason id give concealment up is to have an early warning for sniping and DDs, the further the range the earlier I get a warning that someone is coming for me, and who needs more than 10.8 concealment on a CV anyway? About DDs, using 2/3 bomber squads to get 2k is a waste when you can use 2/3 torp squads to kill the thing in one go. If they get lucky and don't die I will follow up, but that's only plan B and since DD Dam con reloads so fast its hardly worth it for breaking modules unless they are in plain sight of allies in which case just spotting would be better. About the cross dropping, if you cross drop a BB you limit yourself to only 1 hit from one salvo and 3 from another, but if you approach correctly or even just from the front and feint, the AA does not do much to the planes, but doing a cross drop (which would have to be done from behind) would make your planes be in enemy AA for a lot longer right? soz for long post :I Attached is the AR symbol (10/10 research :P) I did some research about AR. It seems like it does indeed reduce aircraft servicing time. However, that still doesn't make this skill very useful, because you safe a few seconds for getting planes ready and that's it. You still have to fly to your targets which takes much more time making the few seconds essentially useless. It's not like you can make one more strike with your planes by safing a few seconds. About EM: The speed is only reduced when the planes return to your carrier (automatically after drop/by pressing F), not if they get any orders after dropping their bombs. So it doesn't affect your spotting powers. Try to hit me in a BB without crossdropping I'm not saying you should always crossdrop BBs, but there are situations where it definitely is the better choice to maximize damage. 10 minutes ago, rnat said: 1) Mostly for shooting down catapult fighters and annyoing scrubs that don't strafe, not much use otherwise. 2) Makes landings take forever and makes returning planes easy to strafe down if not micro'd sufficiently. 3) The lowest base fire chance on any HE bomb is 108% (Kaga), so an additional 2% is completely insignificant. (c.f. http://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Aerial_Combat#Dive_Bombers) Against bbs (and similarly clunky ships) setting an alpha-drop is much better. Since the rudder-shift is reasonably slow you can see which turn the target is initiating and change your aim accordingly. A cross-drop will cost you ~40% of your dmg (w. 2 squads) so it's not worth it against anything you can reliably hit otherwise. 1) And that alone makes the skill very powerful, by having a better chance to shoot down catapult fighters before your drop so they don't spread your bombers. The number of scrubs that don't strafe is very high. Especially the combination of more HP + better rear gunners sometimes lets you kill fighters faster than they can kill your bombers :D For only one skill point, EM is extremely powerful when used right. 2) Only when your carrier goes full speed. Yes, your micromanagement gets harder with that skill. But it's worth it! 3) More percent is more percent. Only the base fire chance is >100%, the real chance after adding fire resistance and stuff is way below 100% (http://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Fire) If you can hit it reliably. Which is not always possible. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[AAO] rnat Players 1,597 posts 21,844 battles Report post #8 Posted September 25, 2017 49 minutes ago, Commander_Cornflakes said: Try to hit me in a BB without crossdropping As long as i have manual drop I'll smack your sides. If you have good AA i might loose a ton of planes to pull that off but trust me a bb can't outturn a well executed incoming strike. (or even one of mine ^^) 49 minutes ago, Commander_Cornflakes said: 1) And that alone makes the skill very powerful, by having a better chance to shoot down catapult fighters before your drop so they don't spread your bombers. The number of scrubs that don't strafe is very high. Especially the combination of more HP + better rear gunners sometimes lets you kill fighters faster than they can kill your bombers :D For only one skill point, EM is extremely powerful when used right. 2) Only when your carrier goes full speed. Yes, your micromanagement gets harder with that skill. But it's worth it! 3) More percent is more percent. Only the base fire chance is >100%, the real chance after adding fire resistance and stuff is way below 100% (http://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Fire) If you can hit it reliably. Which is not always possible. 1) I can't really argue with the catapult-fighter side of things but beyond that it's definitely not a skill that will be that useful after t7 (at least most t8 cvs don't think strafing is something you do with marmelade) 2) What is it worth for though ? You get more HP when returning to carrier. Then way i can see that being useful is for an approach against something with lots of long-range aa before setting the drop. And that takes some time to set up, so where's the use in even that ? 3) Don't forget that the reduction hit's the 2% from DE as well, so it's more like 1-1.3% in reality. So you're going from ~62% (ijn) to ~63.5%, which is imo not worth spending 3 points on which could be spend on survivability, an aa or emergency takeoff or whatever. 4) I was talking about ships with bb-levels of maneuverability. As long as they aren't wedged in between cover, have heavy aa, defaa or an escort with one of the latter two i can't really think of a situation in which i couldn't hit them reliably. (i.e. a bb you would approach is probably one you can hit reliably) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[WG] Commander_Cornflakes WG Staff, WoWs Wiki Team 3,711 posts 15,727 battles Report post #9 Posted September 25, 2017 11 minutes ago, rnat said: As long as i have manual drop I'll smack your sides. If you have good AA i might loose a ton of planes to pull that off but trust me a bb can't outturn a well executed incoming strike. (or even one of mine ^^) 4) I was talking about ships with bb-levels of maneuverability. As long as they aren't wedged in between cover, have heavy aa, defaa or an escort with one of the latter two i can't really think of a situation in which i couldn't hit them reliably. (i.e. a bb you would approach is probybly one you can hit reliably) And what do you do, when he turns towards your torpedo bombers as soon as he sees them? Ignore that and still drop -> no hits Continue to fly around him until your planes are finally in a good position to drop -> You have to fly very close to him to outrun his turn -> Lose many planes to AA (why I said "for ships with at least good AA") 11 minutes ago, rnat said: 1) I can't really argue with the catapult-fighter side of things but beyond that it's definitely not a skill that will be that useful after t7 (at least most t8 cvs don't think strafing is something you do with marmelade) 2) What is it worth for though ? You get more HP when returning to carrier. Then way i can see that being useful is for an approach against something with lots of long-range aa before setting the drop. And that takes some time to set up, so where's the use in even that ? Think about it. You can get 70% more HP by simply pressing one button. No matter if they dropped their bombs or not, it works whenever you need it. Fly over the sea when a wild Minotaur appears and activates his 8.6km I-hate-CVs zone? Press F. Random fighters attack your planes? Press F. You just attacked a ship and want to keep your planes? Let them have their 70% until out of AA range. And a thing that many seem to forget: -20% to detectability of strike aircraft when returning to the carrier A big "I don't care about your 7.2 or 8.6km cause you won't see them after 6.4km" to every AA specced ship. (Unless another ship keeps spotting the planes of course) 12 minutes ago, rnat said: 3) Don't forget that the reduction hit's the 2% from DE as well, so it's more like 1-1.3% in reality. So you're going from ~62% (ijn) to ~63.5%, which is imo not worth spending 3 points on which could be spend on survivability, an aa or emergency takeoff or whatever. I never felt the need for any of these skills and 1% is 1% ^^ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[CG] Redcap375 Players 4,371 posts 15,291 battles Report post #10 Posted September 25, 2017 First of all thank you MiniBrit for your opinions and advice regarding CV play. It is nice to see that us CV players really try to help other players find their feet. Some points Cross drop is one of those things isnt it lads? Some do and some don't and you can argue either-way. Personally I cross drop. I have always found then when splitting my torps and hitting from both side (or same) it yealds better results. Because the ball is in your court, not his. If you decide to group up on him, you wont know which was he is going to turn and the speed in which he is going to do it. All of these factors gives him a slight advantage in avoiding the torps. As we all know, BB/CL/CA and DD all act and turn differently. Warspite turn vs a Freddy turn is a good example. A warspite is great at avoiding a grouped torp drop, a freddy turns like the titanic and a group could* fair better results. On the other hand if you cross drop, you take that slight advantage away from him. Send in the first wave and see what he does as if he's not a complete potato, he will try and turn. When he does you know which way/turn he is going to make and the speed in which he chooses to do it. Then you have him on the ropes. You might land 2-3 torps depending on alot of factors (skill, turning, speed, aa) initial but now he has shown his cards and turned and is now slower. That's when the 2nd wave can pile in. His AA is still concentrating on the first lot that you sent in (depending on how switched on he is) so the 2nd lot always comes away better. It really boils down to what your trying to hit, so there is no one answer. This comes with experience. I treat everyone that i'm about to bomb with respect so i have in the back of my mind that he is a good player to begin with. A good player will fair ALOT better against a torp run that someone that isn't. He's better to respond and act before the drop has even taken place. BUT...He has no control after his initial action. He is committed with the turn and is slower because of it. Very few players speed into a turn but even then you know the speed and you know the turn Knowledge is the most powerful assist to a CV captain, more than another line IMHO. Brit Would you be able to add this onto the "CV captains cabin" thread as people will find it interesting. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pra3y Players 3,021 posts 11,390 battles Report post #11 Posted September 25, 2017 You should never cross drop anything other than a DD unless the target has lost most of its AA or you're trying to do a guaranteed kill on a low health ship whose player knows what he's doing. When you waste time trying to do a cross drop on a BB that has tons of AA, you expose your planes to the AA and give the BB time to target all of then (well I would if you try pulling the stunt one me). Doing an alpha drop would keep your plane's exposure to said BB's AA to the minimal, giving your planes more survivability and do more damage. While a BB can turn, can any of the high tier BBs really turn that fast to dodge a well place manual drop? I rather do lesser damage at the start and do stacked alpha strikes and have more planes left mid to end game so that I can still do stuff rather than waste my planes trying to cross drop a BB for no reason. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[WG] Commander_Cornflakes WG Staff, WoWs Wiki Team 3,711 posts 15,727 battles Report post #12 Posted September 25, 2017 4 minutes ago, pra3y said: You should never cross drop anything other than a DD unless the target has lost most of its AA or you're trying to do a guaranteed kill on a low health ship whose player knows what he's doing. When you waste time trying to do a cross drop on a BB that has tons of AA, you expose your planes to the AA and give the BB time to target all of then (well I would if you try pulling the stunt one me). Doing an alpha drop would keep your plane's exposure to said BB's AA to the minimal, giving your planes more survivability and do more damage. While a BB can turn, can any of the high tier BBs really turn that fast to dodge a well place manual drop? I rather do lesser damage at the start and do stacked alpha strikes and have more planes left mid to end game so that I can still do stuff rather than waste my planes trying to cross drop a BB for no reason. If he doesn't wait to turn until the torpedos are already coming, yes, even a T10 BB can evade most of them. However, a crossdrop on a DD should obviously not be the same as on a BB. What I want to say: When you crossdrop a BB, don't attack with so much time between the bombers that he can shoot them all down. Attack nearly at the same time, just from different angles. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[CG] Redcap375 Players 4,371 posts 15,291 battles Report post #13 Posted September 25, 2017 As for Captain Skills? Again, depends on the CV/Country. Generally, i never take for a CV: AR - No point in my book. If you getting hit something is wrong or your in last chance saloon mod and trying to cap like a crazy person. 3 points can be spent better. Fire take off - Please see above. Something has gone wrong and your probably going to die. Slight chance you might survive the thing that is shooting you, but probably not going to survive to shells from the rest of his team as they have lit you up like a Christmas tree. Plus, Your team could kill him before the fire becomes a issue as you should be close(ish) behind them for them to react. No one wants to see a friendly CV get blown up so they are more inclined to help you, more than say a poor sap cruiser (i know, i've been there). BFT - Would rather have the AA range (AFT) then the 20% extra aa. The range is the important factor due to the defensive fire consumable. EM - I still don't to this day know why WG added this as a skill, even if its a single point skill. Its asking for trouble in every way. IMHO the must have is: Aircraft Servicing Expert Torpedo Armament Expertise Air Supremacy Concealment Expert Advanced Firing Training Which leaves: Torpedo Acceleration. Now this one depends on the 1)CV and 2) the CV Captain. A Kaga with rocket torps dosent need this (plus you don't want longer fuses as the front ones might hit with a dud), where the Saipan could benefit from it as it has slower torps. Plus the CV captain knows what distance he's good at and might want a shorter/longer fuse. Some ships react better to faster torps than slower ones believe it or not! I have it on alot of my CVs, but not on all. Dogfighting expert. If i don't take the above then i take this. 10% ammo is something. But either is ok. Again chaps, it depends on the CV. The enterprise NEEDS this skill as well as tier 5 CV's as they very often go against tier 6 CVs (god help to poor lambs). So its horses for courses. My usual build (Kaga): Aircraft Servicing Expert1 Point Increases servicing speed and HP for carrier-based aircraft +5% to HP of carrier-based aircraft -10% to servicing time of carrier-based aircraft Dogfighting Expert1 Point Increases the attack power of fighters while in combat against higher-tier aircraft. The greater the difference between the tiers, the greater the increase. +10% to average damage per second of fighters for each tier of difference between them +10% to fighetrs ammunition Expert Rear Gunner2 Points Increases efficiency of self-defense armament for aircraft with rear gunners +10% to average damage per second of self-defense armament for aircraft with rear gunners Torpedo Armament Expertise3 Points Reduces reload time of torpedo tubes and servicing time of torpedo bombers -10% to reload time of torpedo tubes -20% to reload time of torpedo bombers Air Supremacy4 Points Changes number of aircraft in squadrons +1 fighter aircraft +1 bomber aircraft Advanced Firing Training4 Points Extends firing range of main guns with a caliber up to and including 139 mm and secondary battery guns +20% to firing range of main battery guns with a caliber up to and including 139 mm and secondary battery guns +20% to AA defense firing range Concealment Expert Chaps Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[CG] Redcap375 Players 4,371 posts 15,291 battles Report post #14 Posted September 25, 2017 7 minutes ago, Commander_Cornflakes said: If he doesn't wait to turn until the torpedos are already coming, yes, even a T10 BB can evade most of them. However, a crossdrop on a DD should obviously not be the same as on a BB. What I want to say: When you crossdrop a BB, don't attack with so much time between the bombers that he can shoot them all down. Attack nearly at the same time, just from different angles. This.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[AAO] rnat Players 1,597 posts 21,844 battles Report post #15 Posted September 25, 2017 24 minutes ago, Redcap375 said: If you decide to group up on him, you wont know which was he is going to turn and the speed in which he is going to do it I was strictly talking about unmaneuverable ships. Against a RN CL sailing evasively i'll cross drop if i can, no contest. But a ship with less maneuverability (say a Shchors, Friederich or New Mex) must initiate his turn well into your approach, so when you're positioning your planes for a drop most likely he'll be in the turn or he'll eat a bunch or your fishies because he's too late to start dodging, so the information advantage is basically void because of the time it takes to initiate and go into full evasion. Just now, Commander_Cornflakes said: If he doesn't wait to turn until the torpedos are already coming, yes, even a T10 BB can evade most of them. What ? As in are you serious ? If a bb starts evading on time you just adjust your drop and then he'll eat it. Especially the less-than subtle t10s. 38 minutes ago, Commander_Cornflakes said: And what do you do, when he turns towards your torpedo bombers as soon as he sees them? Ignore that and still drop -> no hits Continue to fly around him until your planes are finally in a good position to drop -> You have to fly very close to him to outrun his turn -> Lose many planes to AA (why I said "for ships with at least good AA") If he does that i know he's in a full turn and i can position my drop. My planes are still in the approach phase, so it'll take at most 3-5s extra to get the appropriate positioning. 37 minutes ago, Commander_Cornflakes said: Think about it. You can get 70% more HP by simply pressing one button. No matter if they dropped their bombs or not, it works whenever you need it. Fly over the sea when a wild Minotaur appears and activates his 8.6km I-hate-CVs zone? Press F. Random fighters attack your planes? Press F. You just attacked a ship and want to keep your planes? Let them have their 70% until out of AA range. Your course is fixed after that though, so possibly not the shortest way out of the aa-bubble. Then again it's arguably useful. I haven't tried it but if your micro works why not. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[CG] Redcap375 Players 4,371 posts 15,291 battles Report post #16 Posted September 25, 2017 What i'm going to do tonight is see what the auto drops are like against DDs. I haven't done an auto drop for ages! Just got so used to it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[CG] Redcap375 Players 4,371 posts 15,291 battles Report post #17 Posted September 25, 2017 It all depends on the ship your dropping on and your gut instinct (please see DD threads regarding the meaning of the word, those guys live off it ) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pra3y Players 3,021 posts 11,390 battles Report post #18 Posted September 25, 2017 31 minutes ago, Commander_Cornflakes said: If he doesn't wait to turn until the torpedos are already coming, yes, even a T10 BB can evade most of them. However, a crossdrop on a DD should obviously not be the same as on a BB. What I want to say: When you crossdrop a BB, don't attack with so much time between the bombers that he can shoot them all down. Attack nearly at the same time, just from different angles. I can't say for others but for me it's impossible. For me, I would have to be totally focused on just that one target while while ignoring whatever else is happening, in order to do a simultaneous cross drop. The thing is, why waste time and effort doing a cross drop when you can just adjust your squadrons while approaching the target and then perform the "Emperor's Hammer" on said target? The only times I miss my "Emperor's Hammer" is when defensive aa is on (but I still land torps) or I misjudge the distance but apart from that few BBs escape unscathed. On a side note, achievement unlocked, finally landed all 6 torps from a USN TB squad on a target 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[CG] Redcap375 Players 4,371 posts 15,291 battles Report post #19 Posted September 25, 2017 22 minutes ago, pra3y said: You should never cross drop anything other than a DD unless the target has lost most of its AA or you're trying to do a guaranteed kill on a low health ship whose player knows what he's doing. When you waste time trying to do a cross drop on a BB that has tons of AA, you expose your planes to the AA and give the BB time to target all of then (well I would if you try pulling the stunt one me). Doing an alpha drop would keep your plane's exposure to said BB's AA to the minimal, giving your planes more survivability and do more damage. While a BB can turn, can any of the high tier BBs really turn that fast to dodge a well place manual drop? I rather do lesser damage at the start and do stacked alpha strikes and have more planes left mid to end game so that I can still do stuff rather than waste my planes trying to cross drop a BB for no reason. Really? Even a RN cruiser m8? A Belfast player could avoid more in a grouped attack than a cross IMHO. Say you have Manuel AA aim on your BB. Your going to destroy 1 group of IJN torp planes quite easily, regardless of group or cross drop. So, if you group them together and send them in from one side and the bb turns, he could avoid 1-2 torps from that remaining group, depending on what BB it is. That's providing any of them made it in alive anyway (Please see NC. Lol). If you cross drop, he might have already made his move from the first set. Even though the first wave will be brown bread, you still have the 2nd group coming in from a different angel and IMHO, you should be hitting 4. You even have a split second when he is franticly clicking on the new set of torp bombers as he has to move the mouse to the new ones. Every second counts. You don't even have to CROSS DROP per say, just one goes in slightly after the other to compensate for the enemy turn. But like you have rightly said, against a Freddy or Yam your going to cause major damage either way so group would make sense. Against a Warspite or Sharn? Hummm. Does anyone know if grouping planes together actuality has an effect on the HP of the planes in the group? Compared to 2 sets of torps in the same aura, but different angles? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[CG] Redcap375 Players 4,371 posts 15,291 battles Report post #20 Posted September 25, 2017 1 minute ago, pra3y said: I can't say for others but for me it's impossible. For me, I would have to be totally focused on just that one target while while ignoring whatever else is happening, in order to do a simultaneous cross drop. The thing is, why waste time and effort doing a cross drop when you can just adjust your squadrons while approaching the target and then perform the "Emperor's Hammer" on said target? The only times I miss my "Emperor's Hammer" is when defensive aa is on (but I still land torps) or I misjudge the distance but apart from that few BBs escape unscathed. On a side note, achievement unlocked, finally landed all 6 torps from a USN TB squad on a target Nice one I take it he turned the wrong way (away) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pra3y Players 3,021 posts 11,390 battles Report post #21 Posted September 25, 2017 34 minutes ago, Redcap375 said: What i'm going to do tonight is see what the auto drops are like against DDs. I haven't done an auto drop for ages! Just got so used to it. Well I was playing on the PTS once in the Taiho, framerate when bonkers, lag was incredible so I autodropped a kiev/some russian DD from 3 different directions. Said DD did not live to tell the tale. 2 minutes ago, Redcap375 said: Nice one I take it he turned the wrong way (away) Thanks =) Nah, he sailed straight ;) 3 minutes ago, Redcap375 said: Really? Even a RN cruiser m8? A Belfast player could avoid more in a grouped attack than a cross IMHO. Say you have Manuel AA aim on your BB. Your going to destroy 1 group of IJN torp planes quite easily, regardless of group or cross drop. So, if you group them together and send them in from one side and the bb turns, he could avoid 1-2 torps from that remaining group, depending on what BB it is. That's providing any of them made it in alive anyway (Please see NC. Lol). If you cross drop, he might have already made his move from the first set. Even though the first wave will be brown bread, you still have the 2nd group coming in from a different angel and IMHO, you should be hitting 4. You even have a split second when he is franticly clicking on the new set of torp bombers as he has to move the mouse to the new ones. Every second counts. You don't even have to CROSS DROP per say, just one goes in slightly after the other to compensate for the enemy turn. But like you have rightly said, against a Freddy or Yam your going to cause major damage either way so group would make sense. Against a Warspite or Sharn? Hummm. Does anyone know if grouping planes together actuality has an effect on the HP of the planes in the group? Compared to 2 sets of torps in the same aura, but different angles? Well I can't prove it game mechanic wise but personal experience wise grouping the planes together, I've always lost very little planes vs ship base AA, especially against BBs. This is from one of my post on the Captains Cabin thread on why its better to stack. Plus like I said above, cross dropping waste too much effort on a single target. Don't forget also that we're currently discussing cross dropping without considering another ship triggering defensive aa nearby, float planes or enemy fighters. All this would affect cross dropping more than it would affect a stacked drop. .... I feel that it help in a way. If the target select individual squads to focus on with AA, it's harder cause from the target's pov, they're so close to each other and it is hard to continuously pick squadrons to target as they close in. Additionally, even if they wipe out 1 squad, the other squad will still be able to do a drop with all its plane since all the planes are coming in at the same time. This is versus sending in 1 plane at a time or doing a cross drop where the target will have all the time in the world to focus on your individual squad and thereby easily able to wipe out your planes. Once I sent a stacked 3 squad Lexi 1000pd DB to drop on an Atlanta with defensive AA on. I loss 2 planes from 1 squad going in and 3 more from the same squad going out. Even though I didn't do much damage on the Atlanta I think it shows just how survivable stacked squads can be, although I can't prove it game mechanic wise , well it's just what I've observed from my experience. The Atlanta went "Oh" cause he barely shot down any planes while I went "Oh" cause I barely damaged him. Don't ask why I decided to do it in the first place. Edit 2: Even though I talk about stacking, don't make that an absolute. Use your own judgement. For example say its end game and you have an enemy Hindi with a silver of a health left on one side of the map and an enemy Mino if similar health on the other side of the map. Your teammates are unable to hit them or they're all dead and killing both will win your team the game. In that case, the best solution would be to split the TBs up and strike both of them instead of wasting time stacking and then doing a strike. The downside of stacking is that it waste time grouping the squad together before a strike so make your choice wisely ;) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[CG] Redcap375 Players 4,371 posts 15,291 battles Report post #22 Posted September 25, 2017 Pra3Y, i never took you for a seal clubber??? 256 ships destroyed in your Bogue? Couldn't have taken you that long to gind it? Shameless m8 (friendly jest) 5 minutes ago, pra3y said: Well I was playing on the PTS once in the Taiho, framerate when bonkers, lag was incredible so I autodropped a kiev/some russian DD from 3 different directions. Said DD did not live to tell the tale. Thanks =) Nah, he sailed straight ;) Muppet.Lol Its funny how we both do things differently but still have a similar win rate in CVs. I see you don't have the Sapian? You should get it m8 just for the experience of it. Although I understand if you don't as you already have the Kaga and would feel dirty in it. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pra3y Players 3,021 posts 11,390 battles Report post #23 Posted September 25, 2017 15 minutes ago, Redcap375 said: Pra3Y, i never took you for a seal clubber??? 256 ships destroyed in your Bogue? Couldn't have taken you that long to gind it? Shameless m8 (friendly jest) Muppet.Lol Its funny how we both do things differently but still have a similar win rate in CVs. I see you don't have the Sapian? You should get it m8 just for the experience of it. Although I understand if you don't as you already have the Kaga and would feel dirty in it. In my defense, the Bogue was actually a very good manual attack trainer, so I practice strafing and manual torping there. Any seals hurt in the process was ehhh unfortunate. I do have the Saipan my friend, both the Kaga and Saipan. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[KLLCV] Farazelleth Beta Tester 50 posts 7,752 battles Report post #24 Posted September 26, 2017 I've read your 'Complete' guide, it has a number gaps for it really to be called complete but its helpful non the less. Most issues have already been dealt with above by others but I want to touch upon the captain skills. I would recommend if possible, video clips rather than text or picture descriptions on how to perform certain actions. Many carriers focus on bombing but fighter control is as important or higher imho and you have not touched upon Reverse strafes (aka voodoo black magic) or engagement ranges of enemy AA or how to bait fighter strafes into friendly AA for click engagement etc especially helpful if the enemy CV has a better fighter setup. In ranked, Torpedo arm. expertise (TAE) is not as valuable as randoms. At Tier 7 or lower due to the Carrier snipe potential you have to be able to defend yourself with AA, hence this build - Standard IJN Ranked/Competitive Captain Build Tier 8 or higher in theory with Defensive Fire BFT can be dropped for TAE but you have to realize against a good enemy Carrier the number of strikes will be limited to a few or even one attack which reduces the value of TAE, plus the AA values are so high that its better to wait till late game to attack. Also in Competitive most Carriers run 3-1-2 since its more about air control, scouting and sight denial hence TAE further loses its value. I'm also not a fan of your randoms build. Adrenal Rush and concealment on IJN? This seems like a total waste of time, taking AR is dangerous why are you taking damage in the first place? Yes you can bomb yourself to gain benefits of AR but now you are an easy target even with a defensive fire option. Also Concealment on IJN is very dangerous because it reduces your reaction time if spotted by a sneaky Destroyer who flanked. Shokaku at 10.8km Sea detection range is the sweet spot to react and spot whatever else is spotting you. Taking your detection down to 9km or less drastically reduces you ability to survive. I use this instead, Standard IJN Random Captain Build Here we drop AFT for TAE and the last point goes to Priority Target since its the least bad skill for 1point, its actually very handy for knowing not just if you are spotted but if you are targeted (aka time to turn and run) Also Propulsion Mod 2..... what? No you take Damage Control Mod 2 (DCM2)! One of the ways to kill off a Carrier is to bleed them with fires and force a damage control party (DCP) so you can flood & fire them a second time. Taking DCM2 reduces the time you are on fire so you can actually allow one fire to burn out rather than DCP and reduce the damage taken. As for Signal Choice, Dive bombers already have such a huge fire potential it may be more beneficial to drop India-Xray and take Sierra Mike for speed. If there is a heavy CV snipe meta take India Yankee instead (reduce fire time) to compliment DCM2. Not meant to be a negative post only a critical response base upon my own experience. I encourage you to create more content in greater depth! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[TPG] MiniBrit Players 63 posts 12,079 battles Report post #25 Posted September 26, 2017 7 hours ago, Farazelleth said: Adrenal Rush and concealment on IJN? On maps with lots of islands I go for aggressive positions, and ofc in case an enemy DD tries to hunt, it makes it harder for him to find me as well as enemy planes, occasionally they straight up don't go for the snipe because they cant find me. There just wasn't anything more useful than AR, since I regularly take dmg from surface and occasionally snipes, sniping is not much of a threat to me, and it keeps my team safe so its fine tbh. I know it give me less time to react, but my forward positioning means my planes have less distance to travel to get back to blip the DD or fight the sniping planes. (Overall I think the issue is the build I have leaves 2 points left after 17, which does make it a lot more awkward) 7 hours ago, Farazelleth said: Also Propulsion Mod 2..... what? No you take Damage Control Mod 2 (DCM2) This ties into positioning, I am stood still, and every time I'm air spotted I cant assume its a snipe 24/7 so I have to wait until I see the planes in case it was fighters/rogue spotter/accident the prop mod get me at speed faster, which makes dodging the torps a lot easier. I can understand damcon, but once the first wave is over, I can launch fighters to out muscle the enemy fighter(AS/stock USN don't have a reason to strike stock IJN) and kill the second wave. Then I just keep fighters near me to stop any subsequent strikes. BUT I am not completely adamant about it, I just prefer prop mod for the moment. 7 hours ago, Farazelleth said: Reverse strafes (aka voodoo black magic) What is this magic? I haven't heard of this tactic before :0 I included everything I knew of, (I did not know about baiting strafes to tag in allied AA or this voodoo thing) but ofc I'm not as experienced as I could be, and I'm new to the forums so I have been living in a bubble (pardon the pun) when it comes to these things As for cap builds, I would have rather not included them because they can be found everywhere from everyone, but someone would have asked, so eh. not exactly the gem of my guide :/ Thank you so much for showing interest, giving criticism and also showing me the other captain builds, I will definitely reconsider on that front. o7 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
