The Lemming Train

[bouncer8409]

Is it just me or is the Lemming Train becoming far more prevalent. Seems like almost every game my team will lemming to one point and then sit there being destroyed one by one. Repeated games where we have 3 DD and all 3 will go to one cap and sit there with the team achieving nothing. To me this is a severe lack of skill, technique and knowledge, a total lack of any semblance of tactical thinking. It really saddens me to see this static and passive suicidal play. Anyone else seeing this and your thoughts.......

[The_Tyke]

On the contrary I hardly ever see them now. But I do tend to stick to the lower levels.

 

Not so many bad habits have been developed maybe?

[ColonelPete]

36 minutes ago, bouncer8409 said:

Is it just me or is the Lemming Train becoming far more prevalent. Seems like almost every game my team will lemming to one point and then sit there being destroyed one by one.

Almost never see that one.

I see a concentration of forces very often, but thankfully that concentration is mostly mobil and does rarely sit still.

[ajb13]

Sheep will flock, it's in their nature.

[tank276]

Not that I disagree with you ,because you point out that the train comes to a stop, but, on the other hand, if the lemming train does not stop, it is one of the best roller coaster strategies there are on the game.

You just concetrate all forces on a sector and the enemy melts or flees.

Say again, the train must not stop.

Cheers

[_VAMPA_]

28 minutes ago, tank276 said:

Not that I disagree with you ,because you point out that the train comes to a stop, but, on the other hand, if the lemming train does not stop, it is one of the best roller coaster strategies there are on the game.

You just concetrate all forces on a sector and the enemy melts or flees.

Say again, the train must not stop.

Cheers

yeah when couple of bismarcks didnt chase a moskva meanwhile enemy team is taking cap by cap.....

[lameoll]

1 hour ago, bouncer8409 said:

To me this is a severe lack of skill, technique and knowledge

WELCOME to World of warships 

where brains get shut down and logic gets thrown out of the window.

 

 

 

[ASharpPencil]

Let's fallow the them, the sailing to a new map.

 

[GulvkluderGuld]

That moment in a standard battle and a teammate says "Get out of there you will get rekt" when I alone refuse to leave our cap with the red lemmingtrain bearing down on it....and the green guys are nowhere close to the enemy cap.

[ColonelPete]

4 minutes ago, GulvkluderGuld said:

That moment in a standard battle and a teammate says "Get out of there you will get rekt" when I alone refuse to leave our cap with the red lemmingtrain bearing down on it....and the green guys are nowhere close to the enemy cap.

Depends on where he wants you to go and what ship you have.

You do not need to defend the cap from inside the cap.

Unless you are in a DD and the enemy has DD left. Then it is good to be very close to the cap.

 

[GulvkluderGuld]

13 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

Depends on where he wants you to go and what ship you have.

You do not need to defend the cap from inside the cap.

Unless you are in a DD and the enemy has DD left. Then it is good to be very close to the cap.

 

 

South spawn on Hot spots.

In a Des Moines camped behind the southern islands around where C usually is, shooting unspotted.

Team south of the usual A cap, not even a kilometer closer to the enemy cap than the ship spawns - basically a stuck lemmingtrain.

 

Sure would've been nice to escape to the island chain south of the cap, but I made the mistake of closing with the islands to radar dds and shoot from cover, thinking my team would spot targets and maybe return to defend the cap once they realized they would lose without it. Silly me.

I kept shooting untill rammed by a Bismarck, no way to get out unspotted.

[bouncer8409]

Quite correct, if the train keeps pushing forward then all is good but when it stops, defeat looms !

[ajb13]

I think we've all played on Two brothers in domination were a lemming train has kept pushing in a circle around the islands and won. Equally I think we've all been on the north in Neighbours in a standard game where your team lemmings to the NE corner and loses by capping. A lemming train will only work if it goes to the right place, 12 ships all in the same area in a standard game able to support any ships trying to take the enemy cap as well as being able to spot and shoot into your own can be effective. A lemming train with no idea where it going and is only flocking together like a bunch of sheep for 'safety' deserves to get fleeced

[Jimbomaxi]

12 hours ago, ajb13 said:

I think we've all played on Two brothers in domination were a lemming train has kept pushing in a circle around the islands and won. Equally I think we've all been on the north in Neighbours in a standard game where your team lemmings to the NE corner and loses by capping. A lemming train will only work if it goes to the right place, 12 ships all in the same area in a standard game able to support any ships trying to take the enemy cap as well as being able to spot and shoot into your own can be effective. A lemming train with no idea where it going and is only flocking together like a bunch of sheep for 'safety' deserves to get fleeced

Also, if there are 2 carriers on ememy side its not a bad idea to stick together. A lonewolf BB is dead meat when attacked by several torpedoplanes.

[MrWastee]

[Kreskent]

So i guess this is what you call a carousel then?

[Exocet6951]

The alternative to the lemming train, the "let's split up on the map" is the best way to get overwhelmed on 2/3rd of the map, then get mopped up.
I personally don't like basing my decisions on the hopes that the enemy is incompetent and will stop their lemming train, as my team manages to hold two caps as we then fight on at a numerical disadvantage.

 

This isn't a game where you maneuver around cover with ease, and were a single enemy can stop a hesitant enemy like in World of Tanks.
Here, someone outnumbered by enemy ships is dead 95% of the time, unless you start looking at farcical situations where it's one Currywurst against two New Orleans.

 

 

As said previously, a pushing lemming train is overall the best strategy, and is prevalent in a lot of different games in a lot of different genres.
But as with all strategy, if you apply it poorly (in this case stopping at the first cap), it fails miserably. And I have the sneaking suspicion that the average WoWS player enjoys seeing things completely fail.

[RAHJAILARI]

Oh well, so to sum it all up:

 

[meezul]

It only takes 4 ships to slow down a lemming train enough to render it impotent while the rest of your team sails up the other side unopposed, that is why you split.

 

[ColonelPete]

3 hours ago, meezul said:

It only takes 4 ships to slow down a lemming train enough to render it impotent while the rest of your team sails up the other side unopposed, that is why you split.

 

No. 4 ships vs 12 ships ends in one team having 8 ships and the other 11. Guess who wins.

[RUSSIANBlAS]

4 hours ago, meezul said:

It only takes 4 ships to slow down a lemming train enough to render it impotent while the rest of your team sails up the other side unopposed, that is why you split.

 

If the 4 are skilled then this can work but ONLY if the smaller group are good. I'd like to say I can do this in a DD or BB but it's maybe too risky in a Cruiser due to the risk of being a one shot.

 

Had the most amusing game yesterday. Our DDs yoloed then went utterly crazy in chat about noob BBs yet we fought back and were within inches of winning but the lone DD we had left deliberate didn't cap so we still lost... Some players are detritus...

[RAHJAILARI]

Well, that kinda depends on the players involved and what ships they have. If all the 4 defenders are Unicum-level or better and have the right ships (fast BB, smoke Cruiser and DD combo playing seamlessly together) then it might work. But on the whole ColonelPete is right, realistically the likely outcome often IS 8vs11, because there is no guarantee, that OUR defenders are supermen and even worse, no guarantees that OUR Lemmings will be any more competent than theirs (and often they really are not).

 

You see, Lemming tactic itself is basically an indication that the players are out of ideas and confidence, the result of poor tactical perception and ability, which unfortunately is directly relative to individual capabilities of the players involved. In short, once a Lemming train forms, you have already lost the game, not so much because the tactic itself is necessarily flawed (though it is) BUT because it is a clear indication of general lack of ability, skill and confidence to produce a win and therefore seek safety in numbers. In short, we are doomed right there and then.

 

Now, I do not say this to insult anyone here, mind you. I am just an average player myself and yes I have seen it work on rare occasions. Not because it was a good tactic, but because we got lucky and the enemy was even dumber than we were. But one should not mistake a lucky break for good tactics. Just bear in mind that if this really worked, it would be the single most prevalent tactic in any competitive / ranked / clan battles, but amazingly it tends not to be and so one is left to wonder why that is?

 

Also, if enemy team has any skilled players in it, they will instantly recognize this situation and counter it with the outcome being that the entire defensive flank is obliterated in minutes and Lemming train itself gets first bogged down, then annihilated by a few skilled players without getting anywhere near their objective. But then again that might be inevitable anyway, when considering the perceived skill cap between the sides in this kind of scenario.

 

Trafalgar and the Battle of Myeongnyang are prime examples of this. Skill vs the dreaded "Lemming Train".

[robihr]

On 20. 09. 2017. at 5:18 PM, tank276 said:

Not that I disagree with you ,because you point out that the train comes to a stop, but, on the other hand, if the lemming train does not stop, it is one of the best roller coaster strategies there are on the game.

You just concetrate all forces on a sector and the enemy melts or flees.

Say again, the train must not stop.

Cheers

 

have you ever seen lemming train not stopping? all it needs is one dd and people end up stopping moving forward and start camping in C line and/or in 9 and 10 lines. lately i am having meltdown when i see idiots in my team going lemming, spot 2 ships, get scared and stop and then getting flanked cause enemy flanked the other cap and is having perfect broadside on our team who is still dealing with those 2 ships on cap.

 

yes lemming is ok strategy IF people actually push, but in randoms people never push. split is much better cause even if enemy goes lemming even 2 ships can stop it (unless there is unicum division pushing through in enemy team). btw when splitting, you dont need to push into cap, it is enough just to stay behind the cap and stop enemy flanking rest of the team.

[ColonelPete]

If random people never pushed, no match would ever be won by taking the objective.

That is obviously wrong as is your statement.

[EmilyFara]

I have seen quite a few lemmingtrains lately. But I actually think it is quite a good tactic. Because a ball of ships means that the damage is generally spread over the entire ball. And the damage output of the ball is massive. There is no punishing mechanic against a lemmingtrain. The Shimakaze that was an incredibly good punishing mechanic against this has been nerf batted into near oblivion.

As far as I am concerned, the best way is to form a single blob, DDs go in first followed by RADAR ships and hydro active. This blob is nearly immune to carriers. Then all this blob needs to do, is push in to the first cap, take it. And move on to the other caps. If the enemy doesn't also blob up, this would lead to a large fleet taking apart the enemy fleet 1 ship at a time with minimal losses.