Invisibility and overpowered camouflage is no fun

[deBanfield]

Thank-you Developers, World of Warships is a great game with few faults, but a couple of strange things stand out IMHO.

1) I find that too often ships completely disappear and I have no target from one moment to the next. Then, as if by magic, a salvo originates out of nowhere and heads for my ship. I have no way of replying with my fire, as there is nothing there. This makes the game less historical and unecessarily frustrating. Sailing around wasting time looking for targets that were already acquired and being fired on by invisible ships is no fun.

2) Destroyers seem to have the strange capability to cause roaring great fires on a battleship as if they themselves were mini-battleships. Sometimes, torpedoes come out from nowhere with no ship in sight that has launched them. Not fun.

3) I notice that some camouflage is exceedingly expensive and I wonder if this is the problem: players who have paid good money for camouflage would want their money's worth, and in doing so the Devs have given them unhistorically and impossibly super-efficient magic mantle of invisibility. Again, not fun.

[Kreskent]

Don't want to sound like a douche, but the problem is your lack of understanding the game rather than the game itself.

[snakecake]

Perhaps play said "unhistorical star trek cloaking device" using destroyers and see how they work. Know thine enemy etc.

And you will find that they aren't those napalm every shell is 20 million fires and 1 shot torpedoes ships you claim they are.

[ColonelPete]

What did you do in your 872 games?

Watch the villages on the islands?

[Xevious_Red]

1). They removed stealth firing several patches ago. If someone is firing at you and you cant see them they're either behind an island or in a smoke screen. The other option is your pc hasnt rendered the smoke cloud/ship in which case its a hardware issue

2). Yes some destroyers are good at starting fires. Torps coming from unspotted ships is a feature in this game. There are ships from tier 2 (umikaze) that can do this. As you get higher then a large number of ships can launch undetected. If you are using tier 8 ships the general assumption is that you probably would have learnt how to cope with this by now.

3). The only advantage to concealment that any camo gives is -3% and thats available on the cheapest camo (8k silver). Any more expensive camo juat gives bonuses to XP.

 

Serious advice: play more games in random around tier 3/4. You played a lot in co op. Co-op bots are incredibly dumb. You're now trying to play higher tiers against actual players (who have a decent knowledge of the game mechanics) while having no knowledge of the game mechanics yourself

[Zenthon02]

On 18.9.2017 at 6:33 PM, deBanfield said:

1) I find that too often ships completely disappear and I have no target from one moment to the next. Then, as if by magic, a salvo originates out of nowhere and heads for my ship. I have no way of replying with my fire, as there is nothing there. This makes the game less historical and unecessarily frustrating. Sailing around wasting time looking for targets that were already acquired and being fired on by invisible ships is no fun.

2) Destroyers seem to have the strange capability to cause roaring great fires on a battleship as if they themselves were mini-battleships. Sometimes, torpedoes come out from nowhere with no ship in sight that has launched them. Not fun.

3) I notice that some camouflage is exceedingly expensive and I wonder if this is the problem: players who have paid good money for camouflage would want their money's worth, and in doing so the Devs have given them unhistorically and impossibly super-efficient magic mantle of invisibility. Again, not fun.

1) That's called "Arcade-Game"

2) That's called "balancing"

3) Again - "Arcade Game" aaaaand: The camo for -3% Detection costs 7.500 Credits. If you can't afford that, I really do feel sorry for you.

 

*Edited

 

Do you want to know my Opinin about Things "breaking" The Game?

 

1. BB AP normalpens on Destroyers - Fun 10-15k Salvos because what even is the stone-paper-scissors System

2. British BB HE - What? Why? No. I dont want this ingame.

 

 

[Ferry_25]

4) Those *Edited red players *Edited can't even understand 1 SIMPLE request: lay still and don't shoot back. Now how hard is that to understand? You'd be amazed....

[Exocet6951]

New player: check
BB main: check
Awful WR: check
Rushing head first into higher tiers despite being woefully inadequate even for tier 3: check (seriously, how do you do 16k damage average in 76 battles with the Fuso?)

 

 

Sounds like you need a large dose of "go back to tier2 and git gud"

[Kreskent]

2 minutes ago, Exocet6951 said:

BB main: check

But that's not completely true. After all he decided to buy a tier 8 premium cruiser. 

[daki]

Come on guys...

Our fellow captain @deBanfield is still inexperienced as you can see from the battle count.

Furthermore, he states his observations in a nice manner - quite different from the usual BBaby

 

He is not raging, or whining or sounding like an expert in the matter, but just notes things that are at this point for him "strange things" (to quote him).

 

Hence there is no need of treating this thread as the BBaby thread.

Support with sound advice for him is more than welcome though

 

Edit: I also found many "strange things" when I was at his level of experience

[aboomination]

To get you started. This video is ofc outdated but it was the first video that popped up on google.

[Major_Damage225]

I vote wg make a premium cammo with the exact texture of the map water and sell it for 5000 doubloons.... it would sell like beer 

[Robber_Baron]

Fair enough @daki (although he didn't ask for advice)

@deBanfield I'd advise you maybe going into a training room or divisioning with an experienced BB player. He can give you advice about positioning and dealing with damage. I used to be bad in battleships. I'm still not thát great in them, but after divisioning with other battleship players I greatly improved my gameplay in them. And as I stated I don't have that many issues with destroyers or cruisers anymore.

 

Another thing might be to try destroyers yourself. I think you'll learn they're not thát powerful. But maybe more important, if you learn how to sail them properly, you'll learn to know their weaknesses and a better understanding how to counter them.

[tank276]

33 minutes ago, daki said:

Come on guys...

Our fellow captain @deBanfield is still inexperienced as you can see from the battle count.

Furthermore, he states his observations in a nice manner - quite different from the usual BBaby

 

He is not raging, or whining or sounding like an expert in the matter, but just notes things that are at this point for him "strange things" (to quote him).

 

Hence there is no need of treating this thread as the BBaby thread.

Support with sound advice for him is more than welcome though

 

Edit: I also found many "strange things" when I was at his level of experience

+1

[Culiacan_Mexico]

1 hour ago, deBanfield said:

Thank-you Developers, World of Warships is a great game with few faults, but a couple of strange things stand out IMHO.

1) I find that too often ships...

2) Destroyers seem to...

3) I notice that some...

These are balancing choices made by WG.  Just like magic heals on your BBs.

[Exocet6951]

42 minutes ago, daki said:

Come on guys...

Our fellow captain @deBanfield is still inexperienced as you can see from the battle count.

Furthermore, he states his observations in a nice manner - quite different from the usual BBaby

 

He is not raging, or whining or sounding like an expert in the matter, but just notes things that are at this point for him "strange things" (to quote him).

 

Hence there is no need of treating this thread as the BBaby thread.

Support with sound advice for him is more than welcome though

 

Edit: I also found many "strange things" when I was at his level of experience

 

The wording might not be "Pls remove", but the implication sure as hell is.

Making a list with things you find "not fun" are thinly veiled attempts at talking about balance and removing things that hurt his big bad BB.

[AkosJaccik]

1 hour ago, deBanfield said:

Thank-you Developers, World of Warships is a great game(...)

 

As I take your post sincere, I'll ditch the sarcasm and try to reply in a friendly manner.

First and foremost, World of Warships is a game. The apparent "hostility" you can see on this forum stems from the fact that a quite good part of the playerbase (often called as BBabies) play this game with strong faith in their opinion that battleships should be sort-of invulnerable "because of realism". (Strangely enough, they are usually the same people who want to nerf carriers, not-really-for-realism.)

1.) Concealment mechanics was far worse in the past (but still playable), now it's fair, really. It isn't "historically accurate", but it gives chances to mainly ship classes that would be dogfood even more times otherways. Should you play at least once with a destroyer in higher tiers, and you'd understand this full well. Actually acquiring the target on screen and shooting at it is basically the last step in WoWs, if you rely only on that, then you need more experience with it.

2.) You argue about historical accuracy, but "torpedoes appearing from nowhere" is actually pretty damn historically accurate, hell, sometimes even when the first thing you notice is not the torpedo but the explosion is also "historically accurate". Again: go drive a torpedo DD in higher tiers and you will know pain. If someone nukes you with torpedoes, 90% of the time it simply means that you screwed up big time.

3.) Wait... wait. You do realize that you can check the actual camo values for camouflages, right? I can't remember off the bat, but most will give you like -3 or -4% to the concealment. In themselves without captain skills etc. they are almost neglible. And besides, invisifiring is for all intents and purposes deleted from the game, so if someone is shooting at you with main battery without something to break LoS (like a hill), then you will see him.

 

In the end, "not fun" basically means at the end of your points that "I got damaged, and that's not fun." There is only some things you have to be aware of: This is a game. There are four classes, not only one. Everyone has a right to be awarded for good plays. And frankly, if you suck in a battleship, you will be far less punished still, than in any other class. Ask about this any cruiser or DD player, or any CV who got mowed down by a lone battleship's AA how much "fun" they have.

 

You have no right to survive playing poorly just because you drive a big foken' boat, it's that simple. In fact, you should have even less than you have now. This is why most of the posts in your topic say what they say.

So - you either flee, or adapt.

[Gnirf]

1 hour ago, deBanfield said:

Thank-you Developers, World of Warships is a great game with few faults, but a couple of strange things stand out IMHO.

1) I find that too often ships completely disappear and I have no target from one moment to the next. Then, as if by magic, a salvo originates out of nowhere and heads for my ship. I have no way of replying with my fire, as there is nothing there. This makes the game less historical and unecessarily frustrating. Sailing around wasting time looking for targets that were already acquired and being fired on by invisible ships is no fun.

2) Destroyers seem to have the strange capability to cause roaring great fires on a battleship as if they themselves were mini-battleships. Sometimes, torpedoes come out from nowhere with no ship in sight that has launched them. Not fun.

3) I notice that some camouflage is exceedingly expensive and I wonder if this is the problem: players who have paid good money for camouflage would want their money's worth, and in doing so the Devs have given them unhistorically and impossibly super-efficient magic mantle of invisibility. Again, not fun.

As others have remarked you have an Atago T8 Cruiser.

I have now 13000+ battles. I bought the same ship as you early (my first premium) with poor results even if they were better than yours. It is of course your money but your remarks are typical of the frustration when you are at a tier you are not ready for. Yes DDs can stealth torp, the key is to learn how to avoid at least being dev striked and only take 1, it can happen some times for all, but there are ways map awareness, experience from where the attacks are likely to come, keeping an eye on minimap, learning torp ranges and concealment values for the enemy destroyers etc. Stealtfiring is removed but it might come when a ship is driving away from you just outside visibilty and you follow and so to speak drive into the shells otherwise it does not happen after the first salvo. The dispersion and visibilty decrease is there for all with silver credits (in game money), it is your choice to use them.

 

My advice is to try learn and understand the game mechanics, there are plenty of youtube guides, Ichase f.e. for basic mechanics just check that it is produced this year , even though some things have not changed dramatically some mechanics like stealth fire removal, captain skills have. If it is guides on specific ship types you may find older guides alright but look for 2017 at least in general. 

[daki]

6 minutes ago, Exocet6951 said:

 

The wording might not be "Pls remove", but the implication sure as hell is.

Making a list with things you find "not fun" are thinly veiled attempts at talking about balance and removing things that hurt his big bad BB.

 

I understand that, but personally I like to give "the benefit of the doubt" to new fellow captains & forumites with low battle and post count 

 

Speaking of WoWs mechanics, I can understand how daunting, confusing and unfair can it seem for some players (especially new ones as well as noobs).

Compared to beta, there is so much more depth mechanics wise - some good and some bad though.

 

And the forthcoming "smoke nerf" will in fact be a "noob nerf"

Another dimension of complexity will be added that only good players will be able to use properly - new or bad players will just find it confusing

 

[Exocet6951]

5 minutes ago, daki said:

 

I understand that, but personally I like to give "the benefit of the doubt" to new fellow captains & forumites with low battle and post count 

 

 

 

I guess I've spent too much time dealing with clients, and that ability has died off in me 

 

I think it died off at about the time when a client demanded a refund with threats of a lawsuit because "the product was broken", when in fact, a piece of chain had twisted on itself during shipping, and needed a half rotation clockwise to appear pristine again.
It's been 4 years, and that story still rustles my jimmies.

[mtm78]

 

On 9/18/2017 at 8:10 PM, stewie533 said:

*Edited

 

Quote

Is my ship made of Gasoline

was fixed ages ago with IJN HE fire chance nerf, fire prevention and even before, by using brain.exe, this also covers HE spam to strong as they lowered also alpha iirc. 

 

 

[Aotearas]

2 hours ago, daki said:

Come on guys...

Our fellow captain @deBanfield is still inexperienced as you can see from the battle count.

Furthermore, he states his observations in a nice manner - quite different from the usual BBaby

 

He is not raging, or whining or sounding like an expert in the matter, but just notes things that are at this point for him "strange things" (to quote him).

 

Hence there is no need of treating this thread as the BBaby thread.

Support with sound advice for him is more than welcome though

 

Edit: I also found many "strange things" when I was at his level of experience

 

He may word it without the salt, but it's still coming down to being a "why can't my big badass battleship not smite those little destroyers" and "blahblah less historical blahblah".

 

The simple fact he's chosen a mindset of how the game should be (DDs shouldn't be stealthy or setting BBs on fire, etc.) as to catering to his personal demands of gameplay rather than accepting that some things (like detectability) are simply game mechanics that are a tool for people to use (including himself ...) is what makes a person a BBaby, or really just a baddie, regardless of what class they prefer the most (it's just that BBabies are easily the most prominent ones because the lot of them saw some documentaries about the Bismarck or whatever and feel entitled to just beat down everything in their mighty battleships as if they owned the seas).

 

Asking how the game works and asking why the game isn't working as they think it should is a fundamental difference. One is inevitable ignorance by lack of experience and knowledge. The other is simple arrogance. Do note how he finds being shot at out of nowhere "as if by magic" to be unnecessarily frustrating ... with seemingly not a care in the world about the opposing player whose ship is like to sustain crippling amounts of damage if he couldn't use his stealth. Welp, let's give all ships battleship concealment regardless of class, size or displacement (the fact that for some cruisers this would actually be an improvement is ludicrous enough as it is ffs!) and let's see which ships are unnecessarily frustrating to play then ...

 

 

I could go on for a while about instant gratification, a sense of entitlement and a lack of sportsmanship or what I'd consider a natural level of competitiveness, but that would blow my comment way out of proportion and I'm not even sure if that rant would even fit into a single comment ...

[Djansolo]

2 hours ago, Xevious_Red said:

1). They removed stealth firing several patches ago. If someone is firing at you and you cant see them they're either behind an island or in a smoke screen. The other option is your pc hasnt rendered the smoke cloud/ship in which case its a hardware issue

2). Yes some destroyers are good at starting fires. Torps coming from unspotted ships is a feature in this game. There are ships from tier 2 (umikaze) that can do this. As you get higher then a large number of ships can launch undetected. If you are using tier 8 ships the general assumption is that you probably would have learnt how to cope with this by now.

3). The only advantage to concealment that any camo gives is -3% and thats available on the cheapest camo (8k silver). Any more expensive camo juat gives bonuses to XP.

 

Serious advice: play more games in random around tier 3/4. You played a lot in co op. Co-op bots are incredibly dumb. You're now trying to play higher tiers against actual players (who have a decent knowledge of the game mechanics) while having no knowledge of the game mechanics yourself

What he said, but also read up on spotting mechanics. They are quite special in this game.

[HystericalAccuracy]

3 hours ago, deBanfield said:

impossibly super-efficient magic mantle of invisibility

Erm, nope. You can look it up in port: there is no camo that gives more than 3% buff to concealment (which is around 300 meters of visibility). Other camos increase your dispersion by 4%.

 

You can gain much more concealment-wise by using the captain-perk "concealment expert" which gives 10-14% less visibility, or:

concealment module for ships T8-T10 (erm, was it 10%?).

 

Much greater than the visibility-perks are the financial bonuses of these camos: more credits, more XP etc.

[deBanfield]

Well! It seems l was destroyed in this forum just like in the game! Thank-you to those who were patient and kindly. I will take your advice. To the others, we seem to be the same in being short in patience, though not the same in civility and politeness.

In my defence, I was rushing through as many battles as possible to get to ships I wanted to sail. It is a game after all, but I can see the benefit in taking it as seriously as chess.

I am surprised that I did so badly in comparison. Live and learn. Thank-you all for taking the time to comment.

Good gaming to all!