T10 CVs, for or against?

[Thracen]

So I think most people that trawl these forums know my stance on CVs. I think bottom tier CVs get screwed and top tiers get free farm save for 4 or 5 ships in the game. I think in most cases CV players have too much match influence making the rest of the team spectators in their own defeat of victory. 

The worst, and only unforgivable sin is they just suck the fun out of games. You position well for a 2 on 1, you blow the hell out of the cruiser and you're just about to do your hero pass against the Yamato, incoming CV, you can't manoeuvre and you get deleted. This game is all about positioning, you cannot position against a CV, they have global range and countless attack vectors. Their ability to spot ruins DDs if they just don't flat out delete them and the only threat comes from RNG secondaries a potato can learn and avoid and enemy fighters, which might not even exist due to strike loadouts. People say just sail in a group, this works if you have enough collective AA and you don't have ships shooting at you. Some matches have no AA cruisers, and even those that do have too few and none of those cruisers play well alongside a yamato or a kurfurst, for starters they don't have the range, shell velocity or survivability. The same goes for DDs and cruisers, how long does a Hindenburg last on a cap when his gearings smoke runs out ?

 

Anyway, I want to put an end to these salty rants of mine, so vote. Are T10 CVs fun or are they not? I can then take the results and shut up, either vindicated or proven wrong. For the topic discussion, if anyone can tell me what's fun about playing against a T10 CV I'd be glad to hear it, I fear whatever the results I'm going to have to learn to deal with these RTS interlopers.

 

 

[RUSSIANBlAS]

Well it's more the problem of the gulf between even an average CV and the top ones being vast, let alone if one is potato. And the skill difference ruins games as the pro CV will one strike lone ships, knock every enemy plane out the sky, bait potato Defensive AA then eventually come for the hard targets when they're low HP and stripped of AA. 

 

 

[Spellfire40]

No CV is fun atm killing ships while the UI is unresponsiv and at times make you wat to throw your comp out of the window.

The lack of real balance is no fun either.

The inabilikty to strike ships that keep together is no fun either

The ability of the enemy to wreak a strike 5 min in the making is no fun either.

The AA auras of some single ships beinen near imun to all but the most masiv stikes is no Fun either.

 

Great year for CVs ...no Prem more CVs bewore teh rework is done...you think anybody cares for the once in a blue moon T10 CV? WG wont fix anything becaue they have proven again and again that all their PR is just distracting talk to shrout the fact that they dont have the slightest idia themself what to do with CVs and they cant remove ships that are allready in peoples habors either

[RUSSIANBlAS]

12 minutes ago, Spellfire40 said:

No CV is fun atm killing ships while the UI is unresponsiv and at times make you wat to throw your comp out of the window.

The lack of real balance is no fun either.

The inabilikty to strike ships that keep together is no fun either

The ability of the enemy to wreak a strike 5 min in the making is no fun either.

The AA auras of some single ships beinen near imun to all but the most masiv stikes is no Fun either.

 

Great year for CVs ...no Prem more CVs bewore teh rework is done...you think anybody cares for the once in a blue moon T10 CV? WG wont fix anything becaue they have proven again and again that all their PR is just distracting talk to shrout the fact that they dont have the slightest idia themself what to do with CVs and they cant remove ships that are allready in peoples habors either

 

I mean to learn how to CV properly one day as I feel it's the last frontier of this game but yeah there are many issuea like you've mentioned.

 

Plus the actual CV point of view is utterly soul destroying. It's spreadsheet bad almost and actually suffers FPS drop which is pretty amazing optimisation on WG's behalf...

[El2aZeR]

54 minutes ago, Thracen said:

if anyone can tell me what's fun about playing against a T10 CV I'd be glad to hear it

 

Seeing their squads burst into flames because I pushed a button is pretty fun for me.

[elblancogringo]

What has been said above about the gap between good and bad cv player is fundamentally correct. 

I would add that it is not difficult to stay close to a ship providing a good AA bubble. That would at least make the enemy cv target firstly other ships. 

I have been playing games with Baltimore or Minotaur where I actively provided AA and that was fun for me, and for my friends staying close to me.

[Horin728]

Ehm... Let us recap TX ships that have "bad" AA or don't carry defensive AA

 

Shima, Khaba, Z52 and somewhat Yammato.

 

All other ships at TX can shred squads if properly specced. It seems that every new line has more and more AA (Looking especially on the brits) and hunting DDs is not a reliable option for USN CVs, thanks to the one TB squadron and crappy bomb dispersion.

 

So no, CVs have a hard time already.

[Noobsplatter]

1 hour ago, Thracen said:

So I think most people that trawl these forums know my stance on CVs. I think bottom tier CVs get screwed and top tiers get free farm save for 4 or 5 ships in the game. I think in most cases CV players have too much match influence making the rest of the team spectators in their own defeat of victory. 

The worst, and only unforgivable sin is they just suck the fun out of games. You position well for a 2 on 1, you blow the hell out of the cruiser and you're just about to do your hero pass against the Yamato, incoming CV, you can't manoeuvre and you get deleted. This game is all about positioning, you cannot position against a CV, they have global range and countless attack vectors. Their ability to spot ruins DDs if they just don't flat out delete them and the only threat comes from RNG secondaries a potato can learn and avoid and enemy fighters, which might not even exist due to strike loadouts. People say just sail in a group, this works if you have enough collective AA and you don't have ships shooting at you. Some matches have no AA cruisers, and even those that do have too few and none of those cruisers play well alongside a yamato or a kurfurst, for starters they don't have the range, shell velocity or survivability. The same goes for DDs and cruisers, how long does a Hindenburg last on a cap when his gearings smoke runs out ?

 

Anyway, I want to put an end to these salty rants of mine, so vote. Are T10 CVs fun or are they not? I can then take the results and shut up, either vindicated or proven wrong. For the topic discussion, if anyone can tell me what's fun about playing against a T10 CV I'd be glad to hear it, I fear whatever the results I'm going to have to learn to deal with these RTS interlopers.

 

 

I think CV`s are a important part of the game and sadly there are to few of them. I even preferred the jet Midway meta more than the current one as it forced teamplay and punished hard those who did not bother. Sure it was OP but the CV players did not deserve the amount of "fine" WG balancing they recieved. I also think they should not have max 1 CV in high tiers. Burning skies, no overmatch mechanic and closer engagement ranges are what I long for once again 

 

Edit: tl;dr Buff CV`s and allow more of them in high tier matches cause skies filled with airplanes are kewl.

 

Also, I`m no high tier cv player nor a skilled low tier cv player so no bias 

[Thracen]

50 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

Seeing their squads burst into flames because I pushed a button is pretty fun for me.

This only happens if you are against, a very bad cv. It's never happened to me above tier 6.

 

38 minutes ago, elblancogringo said:

I would add that it is not difficult to stay close to a ship providing a good AA bubble.

It's easy to do but one of the ships in the group suffers for it if they aren't in their ideal range, a baltimore and a yamato are sailing together, you end up with the baltimore tanking for the yamato! seriously in most cases this doesn't work if you are getting shot at.

 

35 minutes ago, Horin728 said:

Ehm... Let us recap TX ships that have "bad" AA or don't carry defensive AA

Thats if you build for it with 19pt captains, most dont and top tier players recommend you dont since cvs are rare. Oh and lets not forget that AA modules get destroyed during games and a good CV can strike through almost any AA for a cost. Oh and the best AA ships are nearly always the most fragile and die first.

 

14 minutes ago, Noobsplatter said:

forced teamplay

This, this makes no sense to me, the team play of which is speak is huddling together and turtling? this is what I hate, playing for 10 minutes in my spawn waiting for my AA cover to be brave enough to come out from behind and island. Honestly I know you are not but it feels like trolling when you post such things.

[Spellfire40]

1 hour ago, elblancogringo said:

What has been said above about the gap between good and bad cv player is fundamentally correct. 

I would add that it is not difficult to stay close to a ship providing a good AA bubble. That would at least make the enemy cv target firstly other ships. 

I have been playing games with Baltimore or Minotaur where I actively provided AA and that was fun for me, and for my friends staying close to me.

Providing AA cover is no fun either since you get spoted and that means your have a high chance to eat random long range citadels early on for a few shreded planes. Mino works kinda ifd you willing to waste a smoke for it thogh.

[El2aZeR]

7 minutes ago, Thracen said:

This only happens if you are against, a very bad cv. It's never happened to me above tier 6.

 

If it doesn't happen you've still done your job and can derive satisfaction from that. Whether you do or not is entirely subjective.

 

7 minutes ago, Thracen said:

the team play of which is speak is huddling together and turtling? this is what I hate

 

You do realize sticking together in groups does not automatically mean camping and turtling, right?

[Thracen]

8 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

Whether you do or not is entirely subjective

Agreed that's why I'm asking, I for one tend not to enjoy "doing nothing" for no reward other than the possibility of having switched ad CVs potential target, while sacrificing my own positioning and survivability and damage potential.

 

8 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

You do realize sticking together in groups does not automatically mean camping and turtling, right?

You do realise that camping in large groups is so common place in this game that its been driving forum posts and even patch changes for ages?

 

I feel I should also say that I'm not calling for nerfs or buffs or their removal in this thread. I want to know if people find them fun to play against or not and how they find them fun to fight because in my DDs and cruisers I just find them match ruining for their spotting alone.

[Djansolo]

its not the even tiered t10 CV that I have problems with. Its the +2.

Meeting a t10 CV with a t8 BB means you have to stay close to aa cover, and even then pray he goes for someone else. Cause if he really wants you, you cant do much.

 

But I'm not advocating for removal of CV. I'd rather have a more general mm-change into a 1-tier spread. So you only face the T10 with 9s and 10s.

[El2aZeR]

10 minutes ago, Thracen said:

I for one tend not to enjoy "doing nothing" for no reward other than the possibility of having switched ad CVs potential target, while sacrificing my own positioning and survivability and damage potential.

 

These things aren't all mutually exclusive, either.

 

8 minutes ago, Thracen said:

You do realise that camping in large groups is so common place in this game that its been driving forum posts and even patch changes for ages?

 

Which is a problem with player mentally (and, to be fair, a lot of missing information the game simply doesn't give) and not with CVs.

[Thracen]

23 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

Which is a problem with player mentally (and, to be fair, a lot of missing information the game simply doesn't give) and not with CVs

come now, I think you understood my point was that CVs encourage more defensive and turtle like play. 

[El2aZeR]

Just now, Thracen said:

come now, I think you understood my point was that CVs encourage more defensive and turtle like play. 

 

CVs can also encourage aggressive play by scouting ahead and/or taking out key targets, which makes their influence on such very situational. To say that generally CVs cause any leaning towards defensive play is hilarious at best, especially considering even in games without CVs people prefer to "play defensive".

[RamirezKurita]

3 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

CVs can also encourage aggressive play by scouting ahead and/or taking out key targets, which makes their influence on such very situational. To say that generally CVs cause any leaning towards defensive play is hilarious at best, especially considering even in games without CVs people prefer to "play defensive".

 

Not only that, but T10 CVs have very large plane reserves that benefit from long, passive games, while the shorter and more brutal games will not give them much of a chance. It's basically CVs and the Yamatos that are the only forces stopping campfests in the upper tiers.

 

Grouping up doesn't mean camping, ships can more easily support each other if they are all underway. Not only that, but ships that are properly underway are much harder for carriers to attack in the first place.

[Noobsplatter]

2 hours ago, Thracen said:

This, this makes no sense to me, the team play of which is speak is huddling together and turtling? this is what I hate, playing for 10 minutes in my spawn waiting for my AA cover to be brave enough to come out from behind and island. Honestly I know you are not but it feels like trolling when you post such things.

It might seem weird but back in CBT this meant that you moved as a fleet  and used smoke+ AA barrage to protect capital ships while at the same time trying to fight of the enemy fleet. It did not mean that both teams sat in their bases. At least that`s how my games went, it felt like a awesome collaboration towards victory. There were these great times when I as a somewhat fresh player managed to deploy the smoke in front of our cv while he did evasive manoveurs and it was just enough to make the enemy CV miss and then our CV had time to retaliate. It might not seem like much now but back then it was those moments of teamplay that got me hooked.

 

Yes it was turtling but turtling in itself requires a lot of people being able to keep the turtle from falling apart.

[Culiacan_Mexico]

8 hours ago, Thracen said:

Do you enjoy matches with ... CVs

 

No.  CV players are like surprise packages... did I get the good one or did the opposing team get them?

 

On the bright side, 2016 is the year of the CV... there is still hope. 

[Exocet6951]

9 hours ago, Thracen said:

This only happens if you are against, a very bad cv. It's never happened to me above tier 6.

 

It's easy to do but one of the ships in the group suffers for it if they aren't in their ideal range, a baltimore and a yamato are sailing together, you end up with the baltimore tanking for the yamato! seriously in most cases this doesn't work if you are getting shot at.

 

 

I'll speak on those two points because they're very much in my current playing experience, spamming Grozovoi and Baltimore battles.

You would be surprised how many average to good CV players, from Midways to Hakus, I've bamboozled with the Grozo on which I don't even have manual AA.
They don't see you until they've lost planes, and when they do spot you, it's a rush to kill the DD, only to realize too late that I can actually just press a button and murder 10-15 planes, enough to make their strike completely fail.
By the time they try striking me again, DFAA is back up and I can make the strike fail again.

And boy, it feels good as a DD to be able to completely grab a CV's attention for 8 minutes in a row and lock him down with pointless 3k damage strikes while my team gets away scot free.

 

 

As for the Baltimore, with a 12pt captain, you can enjoy the pleasures of 9.something km detection.
You see planes mustering? Stop firing for 20 seconds, let the planes come to you, and when it's too late for the planes to turn back, DFAA.
Baltimore's AA isn't the best in the world, but it's enough coupled with a BB with "bad" AA like the Yammie to destroy basically every single plane in a Haku strike, save for one or two stragglers.

If some some reason you're still spotted while not firing, turn on radar because there's a DD around, and planes are the least of your concerns.
That's how I've been playing the Baltimore, and I can honestly say that it's my best performing tier9 CA, much more efficient than spamming HE from a distance.

[159Hunter]

My DM is sad when he spots no CV on the enemy teamlist. And I play lots of DM games :)

Actually, any cruiser will do. Just need to fit DefAA and I don't care.

 

And my Udaloi can be indifferent as well, cause the Def AA will save me from cross dropping IJN torps ( but NOT from the authomatic DB drops of skillless CV players :( )

[avenger121]

11 hours ago, Horin728 said:

Ehm... Let us recap TX ships that have "bad" AA or don't carry defensive AA

 

Shima, Khaba, Z52 and somewhat Yammato.

 

All other ships at TX can shred squads if properly specced. It seems that every new line has more and more AA (Looking especially on the brits) and hunting DDs is not a reliable option for USN CVs, thanks to the one TB squadron and crappy bomb dispersion.

 

So no, CVs have a hard time already.

 

> barely reaches measly 60k DPG in TX cruisers

> hey guys, let me tell you about TX ships

lul

 

 

 

 

12 hours ago, Negativvv said:

Well it's more the problem of the gulf between even an average CV and the top ones being vast, let alone if one is potato. And the skill difference ruins games as the pro CV will one strike lone ships, knock every enemy plane out the sky, bait potato Defensive AA then eventually come for the hard targets when they're low HP and stripped of AA. 

 

 

 

Purple guy plays a match in his high tier CV and his equivalent is a tomatoe ---> problem

 

Purple guy plays a match in his high tier DD/cruiser/BB and his equivalent is a tomatoe ---> no problem

 

 

Yeah skill gap has nothing to do with CVs being OP as fúck and having far more influence on the outcome than any other ship class.

[Kais_S012]

4 minutes ago, avenger121 said:

 

> barely reaches measly 60k DPG in TX cruisers

> hey guys, let me tell you about TX ships

lul

 

>Hides his stats to disguise the fact he has zero experience using high tier carriers

>acts like hes gods gift to world of warships and the leading expert in carrier game play in game

 

Pot calling the kettle black perhaps?

[avenger121]

4 minutes ago, Mymeara said:

 

>Hides his stats to disguise the fact he has zero experience using high tier carriers

>acts like hes gods gift to world of warships and the leading expert in carrier game play in game

 

Pot calling the kettle black perhaps?

 

Except they are not, just the snap shot is not updated, but that is probably too difficult for you to understand. Also I never said that I am a good CV player or could give advice in playing them, just as I said several times I wont play OP faceroll ships.

[RUSSIANBlAS]

23 minutes ago, avenger121 said:

 

> barely reaches measly 60k DPG in TX cruisers

> hey guys, let me tell you about TX ships

lul

 

 

 

 

 

Purple guy plays a match in his high tier CV and his equivalent is a tomatoe ---> problem

 

Purple guy plays a match in his high tier DD/cruiser/BB and his equivalent is a tomatoe ---> no problem

 

 

Yeah skill gap has nothing to do with CVs being OP as fúck and having far more influence on the outcome than any other ship class.

 Na a good Unicum in a DD can hard carry too (well hard spot), if they kill the enemy potato DD early then a game only really has one outcome.