Why is Gneisenau so worthless?

[Grandorf]

To be honest, I got better in Gneisenau before I got Bismarck.

 

Aggressive play in a group was key.

 

Also you have to minimize your detection range.

Thats the one that made you "priority" target.

[HipHipHipper]

Honestly I like the ship, it’s nothing special just takes a bit of time to get used to that’s all.

[LoveYouTooBuddy]

Gneisi is THE best AA ship for cv div.

[HaachamaShipping]

19 hours ago, LoveYouTooBuddy said:

Gneisi is THE best AA ship for cv div.

It is good. Not necessarily the best. Would pick Atlanta over Gneisenau for mere AA value, because it is harder to spot and has unlimited defAA.

 

Tier for tier, Yuubari and Texas are even better though, especially given at those tiers IJN CVs rely on friendly AA to not lose the air battle. And fewer people have a clue about what these two ships do to the limited hangar size at lower tiers.

[Aragathor]

19 hours ago, LoveYouTooBuddy said:

Gneisi is THE best AA ship for cv div.

Atlanta and Lyon beg to differ. Lyon has better AA as a BB. Atlanta has DefAA.

 

17 minutes ago, Riselotte said:

Tier for tier, Yuubari and Texas are even better though

You are evil for pointing this out. Texas loses AA fast to HE though.

[HaachamaShipping]

23 minutes ago, Aragathor said:

Lyon has better AA as a BB.

For self-defence, yes. For fleet defence, Gneisenau has most of its dps at ranges that matter and at calibers that get buffed by Manual AA.

[LoveYouTooBuddy]

5 hours ago, Riselotte said:

For self-defence, yes. For fleet defence, Gneisenau has most of its dps at ranges that matter and at calibers that get buffed by Manual AA.

for DIVISION with cv.. 7.5 km(15km noflyzone) aa you cover half the map(2 caps usually), two aa gneisenaus cover all the map.. enemy have no cv then!

[Fonfalks]

Horrible ship. Utterly horrible. It is meant to be played up close, but try to play it up close in randoms on T7s when most of teams camp most of game. 

Usually its either low damage due to sniping from far or early death due to going alone or with 1  - 2 other ships who do not want to camp and early death. 

Ship burns like a match, get citadeled super easy, guns shoot like ships crew have drunk vodka all day and if you hit a citadel it is like winning in casino. 

Only ship that has been worse then this utter piece of garbage is Izumo, that ship was so bad i quit BB line altogether for years. Not sure if i will be able to finish this ship and get to, by most opinions good, T8 german BB. 

[lafeel]

Worthless? It's gone straight to my second favorite tier 7 BB spot behind the Lyon.

 

Worthless my foot..

[HaachamaShipping]

4 hours ago, Fonfalks said:

Horrible ship. Utterly horrible. It is meant to be played up close, but try to play it up close in randoms on T7s when most of teams camp most of game. 

Usually its either low damage due to sniping from far or early death due to going alone or with 1  - 2 other ships who do not want to camp and early death. 

Ship burns like a match, get citadeled super easy, guns shoot like ships crew have drunk vodka all day and if you hit a citadel it is like winning in casino. 

Only ship that has been worse then this utter piece of garbage is Izumo, that ship was so bad i quit BB line altogether for years. Not sure if i will be able to finish this ship and get to, by most opinions good, T8 german BB. 

Even if people say German BBs are among the more fool proof, a certain degree of skill is still required. Gneisenau by no means is garbage.

[Muki321]

14 hours ago, Fonfalks said:

Horrible ship. Utterly horrible. It is meant to be played up close, but try to play it up close in randoms on T7s when most of teams camp most of game. 

Usually its either low damage due to sniping from far or early death due to going alone or with 1  - 2 other ships who do not want to camp and early death. 

Ship burns like a match, get citadeled super easy, guns shoot like ships crew have drunk vodka all day and if you hit a citadel it is like winning in casino. 

Only ship that has been worse then this utter piece of garbage is Izumo, that ship was so bad i quit BB line altogether for years. Not sure if i will be able to finish this ship and get to, by most opinions good, T8 german BB. 

nah, cmon.

 

This ship is not perfect but is nonetheless an excellent ship overall and has a great reputation. Yes, it has only 6 guns but they are hard hitting and only 25sec reload. I deal more damage with them regularly,  then with 12 guns on New Mexico...

 

I am still to make use of the torpedoes and deadly secondaries though (need 2 more points on my captain to turn on the manual secondaries skill) since all same/lower tier enemies turn their back and try to run away once facing me :)

[Fonfalks]

1 hour ago, Muki321 said:

nah, cmon.

 

This ship is not perfect but is nonetheless an excellent ship overall and has a great reputation. Yes, it has only 6 guns but they are hard hitting and only 25sec reload. I deal more damage with them regularly,  then with 12 guns on New Mexico...

 

I am still to make use of the torpedoes and deadly secondaries though (need 2 more points on my captain to turn on the manual secondaries skill) since all same/lower tier enemies turn their back and try to run away once facing me :)

Excellent? Great reputation? Hard hitting? 

This is just a very bad joke. Ship is second worst ship in game BB wise after nutcase Izumo, it is a ship that has worst things from cruiser like weak armor and very easy to catch fire, combined with worst things of BB like VERY bad gun hit rate, bad reload time, low amount of guns and horrible maneuverability. 

This ship is EXTREMELY team dependent which in T7 random battles means you are screwed. You can not snipe from afar, well you can but you more chance of winning lottery then hitting citadel, you have to brawl and hope for torps and secondaries, but if your cruisers do not help you against DDs you will eat torps and die, if your CV or cruisers do not help you against CVs you die, if there is no group around you you get focused and die, you will have fires on you constantly etc, etc. 

Very bad ship and imho a kind of a fu from WG same as is Izume a fu from WG if you want Yamato. 

[Oppressor_]

As I see the problem is not with the ship again.

[Fonfalks]

At this point i have played 51 battles on this ship, and i must say I HATE IT SO MUCH, i have to use all my will power not to smash screen from rage of how crap this ship is and how insane it is to try and play it. 

Guns - horrible

Accuracy - horrible even for BB standarts

Amount of guns 6 rolf

Survivability - horrible, it burns like crazy from everything.

Worst of it all - utterly team dependent and in randoms, which is all i play, it is just fatal. You have to brawl with this, but if you are alone you are focused asap and die, if you, however, go with group you still are focused most of the times and often group turns back while you try to push and again you die and if you really play it safe you hit NOTHING, because guns are a joke and if you are not withing 10 kms its only luck that can give you citadels and even if you are close its still luck, tho less. 

Just really, really PAINFUL ship to play and if you want to go via German BB line i RECOMMEND that you use free XP on that piece of crap. 

Its just not worth your nerves. 

[HaachamaShipping]

36 minutes ago, Fonfalks said:

At this point i have played 51 battles on this ship, and i must say I HATE IT SO MUCH, i have to use all my will power not to smash screen from rage of how crap this ship is and how insane it is to try and play it. 

Then don't play it. If you think Gneisenau is terrible, Bismarck is likely not for you either.

37 minutes ago, Fonfalks said:

Guns - horrible

You made two seperate points for accuracy and amount of guns. What else about the guns is horrible? Frankly, everything else about the guns is basically superb, be it shell speed, turret traverse, reload... penetration is not best (it's not Nagato), but certainly good for T7, when you have the likes of Lyon, KGV, Hood, Nelson and Scharnhorst around.

39 minutes ago, Fonfalks said:

Accuracy - horrible even for BB standarts

Not its strong point indeed, but with some aiming, you can get decent results. The ballistic properties are a bit different compared to other BBs, I find if you know how to properly aim your shots, you get decent results at medium to short range.

41 minutes ago, Fonfalks said:

Amount of guns 6 rolf

Bismarck only gets two more, in the back, with no great angles. FdG and GK get even worse angles. You sure you want to progress along this line? Other than that, yes, the dpm isn't good, but the Gneisenau still is a very decent can opener that can wreck same and lower tier BBs just fine and will win against cruisers by virtue of being a battleship.

43 minutes ago, Fonfalks said:

Survivability - horrible, it burns like crazy from everything.

All T7 BBs have the same chance to catch fire. If your Gneisenau catches on fire more often then either because you get HE spammed more (due to maybe being closer, but all T7 BBs should be in the 10-14 km area) or a cognitive bias. Apart from fires, Gneisenau is the most HE resistant T7 (tied with Scharngorst) except for the Hood. 50 mm centre deck and no squishy upper belt shatter all the 152/155 mm IFHE and 203 mm HE, only letting through German CAs (Hood only gets HE penned by yorck, but not Roon or Hipper and all of them get penned by RN BB HE). Also, while the hp are middle of the field, the armour in general is best in tier. If you die too often in Gneisenau, it means you haven't yet developed a sense for how far you can go with the ship.

48 minutes ago, Fonfalks said:

Worst of it all - utterly team dependent and in randoms, which is all i play, it is just fatal. You have to brawl with this, but if you are alone you are focused asap and die, if you, however, go with group you still are focused most of the times and often group turns back while you try to push and again you die and if you really play it safe you hit NOTHING, because guns are a joke and if you are not withing 10 kms its only luck that can give you citadels and even if you are close its still luck, tho less. 

All BBs rely to a certain degree on their teams. If you were playing a Nagato, same would apply.

50 minutes ago, Fonfalks said:

Just really, really PAINFUL ship to play and if you want to go via German BB line i RECOMMEND that you use free XP on that piece of crap. 

Its just not worth your nerves. 

If anyone seriously wants to progress towards Bismarck, Gneisenau is a grind I consider worthwhile. I recommend against free exping, because the Gneisenau teaches skills you will need to get the most out of Bismarck. It is a decent BB and while some say Bismarck is way more playable, these folks either aren't great in Bismarck either or they gained the insight only after getting Bismarck and would be decent on Gneisenau if they rebought the ship.

 

Gneisenau is my third most played ship (after Harekaze and Bismarck) and I find it a very respectable BB at T7, which says a lot with there being no shortage of good T7 BBs. Compared to Bismarck, it obviously is worse, but tier for tier it's about as strong and as fun, if not more fun, because T7 is vastly more often top tier than T10 (though Bismarck is certainly not the worst T8 in T10 matches).

[lafeel]

Getting some practice in before hand in the Scharnhorst doesn't hurt either.

[shadowwolf9705]

She is not that bad of ship and i would consider her superior to all its adversarys except the KGV and Lyon (infact when allowed to play in close range it will be an excellent ship only beaten by those 2), only real problem are her Guns which are garbage like the rest of the german lines artillery (cant punish enemy mistakes and are more dot like in nature which makes them uncompetetive and frustrating) but she can still handle it cause at t7 she will not end as Cannonfooder in T10 Campingtrips (Bis or Tirpitzs in one of those are far more infurating then playing the Genisenau) and also matches are more fluid allowing her better abilities to shine and if all fails and the game gets too frustrating you can take her into the scenarios to blow off steam works wonders.

[HaachamaShipping]

2 minutes ago, shadowwolf9705 said:

She is not that bad of ship and i would consider her superior to all its adversarys except the KGV and Lyon (infact when allowed to play in close range it will be an excellent ship only beaten by those 2), only real problem are her Guns which are garbage like the rest of the german lines artillery (cant punish enemy mistakes and are more dot like in nature which makes them uncompetetive and frustrating) but she can still handle it cause at t7 she will not end as Cannonfooder in T10 Campingtrips (Bis or Tirpitzs in one of those are far more infurating then playing the Genisenau) and also matches are more fluid allowing her better abilities to shine and if all fails and the game gets too frustrating you can take her into the scenarios to blow off steam works wonders.

Gneisenau vs T9 is worse than Bismarck vs T10. Bismarck at least got the allround armour to tank most ships, Gneisenau has to hardcore bait shells on the belt or it will eat pens and even cits through the bow (still better than a good few other T7 BBs). Also, they can punish mistakes, just not as hard (but getting citadelled even just once is already harsh for most ships), and they have a few mistakes they punish others don't (like staying within 10 km for no good reason).

 

Also, in a straight up fight, both Nagato and Hood likely beat the Gneisenau due to better guns and the need for the Gneisenau to close in to make up for it with torps or secondaries (which they can deny by kiting). Lyon meanwhile has no proper means to deny Gneisenau rush, except run off and try spam the Gneisenau with crappy Lyon HE, as it cannot overmach and superstructure also gets saturated at some point. And with Lyon gun angles, you can just slap its side everytime it tries to get more than 4 guns on you. KGV has to HE kite or it also ends up dead, but it has at least got RN HE. Do note though that any HE-focused approach of these ships leaves them open to a harsh surprise if they misplay and chase the Gneisenau, as the Gneisenau can pretty quickly turn around (knowing the enemy has HE loaded) and close in. And with HE lacking the big knockout blows to finish the Gneisenau fast enough, these ships could then either eat cits in their turn or if they don't turn get rushed down. A Nagato or Hood can also be rushed down if they chase, but only if you survive getting up to half your hp pool chunked out of your ship in the turn from regular AP pens (if you are unlucky, might even be a cit from how your ship lists in a turn presenting the pursuing ship some of the underbelly to bypass the turtleback slopes).

[ShinGetsu]

KGV isn't supposed to be a good BB vs BB ship anyway. It's more a supporting ship with HE salvoes on everything and AP on broadside targets. KGV AP are surprisingly good for its caliber of 356mm, as long as you can get a broadside.

In a straight 1v1, KGV would probably lose against all tier 7 BB except maybe Lyon and Scharnhorst, but it's not a ship suited for straight 1v1.

[Fonfalks]

In conclusion, i decided to sell this ship and decided not to advance German BB line as such. Sure, i hear T8 is better and Kurfurst can be good, but overall its not worth it. 

If i use free XP i only need like 4k to buy Bismark, but i wont. Truth is this play style is not viable in game even if Bismark is much better then Geisenshit. 

Since i play always alone i can not push, because randoms are not reliable and even if initially you have support after 1 minute they can all be heading back with max speed and you are left with 2 choices - 

a)Push on and get burned while 

b)Turn and retreat with team and get burned. 

Tired of even trying to push in games? Want to try sniping? Do not do that or you will smash your PC - guns are unusable. You can get lucky once a week, but overall its like drunk, blind fool trying to hi flying bird with glock. Exercise in frustration. 

To hell with this ship, save your nerves and do not play this crap ship. It is just horrible. 

[Ryuuteimaru]

Not a bad idea, Bismarck is garbage as well thats when I dumped the german BB line I preserved though the Gneisenau and found the Bismarck just as bad.

[lafeel]

Not that you'd ever listen, but the problem isn't the ship, it's you @Fonfalks

[Fonfalks]

On 8/8/2018 at 10:23 PM, lafeel said:

Not that you'd ever listen, but the problem isn't the ship, it's you @Fonfalks

No its the ship. Its 100% the ship. *Edited

It has NOTHING good on it. No strong side to play on. Well why i even bother, i have said it in details above, you do not care, your phrase is "l2p" and "ship is great" or "its you". 

And again, it might be not *Edited, but just badish if you can constantly get in close with support, but that is not going to happen playing solo in randoms, but, again, you do not care. 

Ship is always greatTM *Edited

[HaachamaShipping]

1 hour ago, Ryuuteimaru said:

Not a bad idea, Bismarck is garbage as well thats when I dumped the german BB line I preserved though the Gneisenau and found the Bismarck just as bad.

>Bismarck

>Garbage

It isn't the strongest T8 BB, but it certainly is a solid ship.

[lafeel]

On 2018-8-7 at 7:10 AM, ShinGetsu said:

KGV isn't supposed to be a good BB vs BB ship anyway. It's more a supporting ship with HE salvoes on everything and AP on broadside targets. KGV AP are surprisingly good for its caliber of 356mm, as long as you can get a broadside.

In a straight 1v1, KGV would probably lose against all tier 7 BB except maybe Lyon and Scharnhorst, but it's not a ship suited for straight 1v1.

Only fools go one v one though, unless they're the only ships left on their team.