Thracen Players 525 posts 8,871 battles Report post #1 Posted September 12, 2017 Right. I've had enough. Wargaming thinks 1dd vs 2dds is fair and balanced due to the match outcomes. Right or wrong statistically in terms of winrate this is FRIGHTENINGLY! ignorant of actual game play. Biggest problem in wow? Probably camping BBs, biggest thing that stops teams going forward? Lack of spotting. 2 dds can spot 60-70% of the map, 1 dd well yeah half that. How on earth is that fair and balanced matchmaking? It instantly gives a team, spotting, capping and positioning advantages! This is most acutely felt in smoke CCs, a class that cannot spot for themselves, how on earth is a smoke cruiser meant to shoot something when he can't see anything to shoot? DDs tend to hide in their smoke, smoke ccs have to hide in their smoke so game get spotted out by the BB firing 20km salvos. This is absolutely the worst type of game to have. Have minimum 2 dds a team, equal class and radar assignment and properly reward spotting for heaven's sake! I have over 3k games over a year of play never once have I thought that spotting gave me exp or credits, I have no idea how spotting is taken into account in terms of rewards. Make a clear incentive please! This is the yamamoto DD missions week, there are still not enough dds because the class is poorly played and understood, in part because you haven't got spotting right! Fix it please! Am I a ranting loon or is better spotting rewards and mechanics a cog worth turning for game balance? Just a quick addendum: Thought I'd highlight that this, like everything else in this game effects ccs the worst, they need to know their threats or they die and now they get out spotted by every ship class having a teammate spot is literally life and death. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[NWP] Ubertron_X [NWP] Beta Tester 2,657 posts 25,762 battles Report post #2 Posted September 12, 2017 ...snip Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[TOXIC] ThePurpleSmurf Players 2,554 posts Report post #3 Posted September 12, 2017 Just now, Ubertron_X said: 1. Buy Perth 2. Use smoke 3. ... 4. Profit alternatively 1. Create Division 2. Use smoke 3. ... 4. Profit 1. Wait for the patch 2. Create division 3. Use smoke 4. Get rekt 5. Open forum post and cry 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[WG] Commander_Cornflakes WG Staff, WoWs Wiki Team 3,711 posts 15,747 battles Report post #4 Posted September 12, 2017 1vs2 DDs is not even the worst, there are matches with 1vs0 DDs. And those are really bad for my average damage because they are over after 6 minutes with the enemy team having zero caps. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[UNICS] Nechrom Beta Tester 4,870 posts 10,112 battles Report post #5 Posted September 12, 2017 1 hour ago, Thracen said: This is most acutely felt in smoke CCs, a class that cannot spot for themselves, how on earth is a smoke cruiser meant to shoot something when he can't see anything to shoot? DDs tend to hide in their smoke, smoke ccs have to hide in their smoke so game get spotted out by the BB firing 20km salvos. This is absolutely the worst type of game to have. This is being partially fixed in the 0.6.11 patch. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[TTTX] Tyrendian89 [TTTX] Players 4,608 posts 8,139 battles Report post #6 Posted September 12, 2017 53 minutes ago, Commander_Cornflakes said: 1vs2 DDs is not even the worst, there are matches with 1vs0 DDs. And those are really bad for my average damage because they are over after 6 minutes with the enemy team having zero caps. or, you know, those (admittedly rare) 0v3 battles because Matchmaker decided it wanted to have a laugh and put a Khaba and a Tashkent versus Z52 Fletcher Yugumo... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[BW-UK] Yorkie_GBR Beta Tester 331 posts 3,883 battles Report post #7 Posted September 13, 2017 Ok I gotta ask, what is a CC.. I know, BB,DD,CL,CA,CV which are represented in game but don't know CC .. * I suspect you mean a variation of CL / CA but your proper use of the abbreviations for BB and DD makes me doubt myself. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[JG4] JG4_sKylon Players 1,133 posts 20,992 battles Report post #8 Posted September 13, 2017 I also like the 0 vs 4 radar cruiser matches. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[SCRUB] ApesTogetherStronK [SCRUB] Players 1,074 posts Report post #9 Posted September 13, 2017 1 hour ago, JG4_sKylon said: I also like the 0 vs 4 radar cruiser matches. Ah yes, when Wargaming introduces gimmicks instead of actual balancing but *forgets* to change the MM algorithm to take such things into account. To the OP: I wholeheartedly agree, MM has needed an overhaul in many areas for a long time. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
darky_fighter Players 5,649 posts Report post #10 Posted September 13, 2017 7 hours ago, Thracen said: Right. I've had enough. Wargaming thinks 1dd vs 2dds is fair and balanced due to the match outcomes. Right or wrong statistically in terms of winrate this is FRIGHTENINGLY! ignorant of actual game play. If it is statistically in terms of winrate fair balanced then it is fine for me. I love different match situations. My problem is: My winrate goes down when the enemy has an OMNI-CV-Divi. But this is another issue. ^^ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[ONE2] RAHJAILARI Players 3,160 posts 31,670 battles Report post #11 Posted September 13, 2017 Weel, as long as both teams have at least a DD. I've been in lots of games where the other team has none and so has no chance of capping anything and is forced to resort to mounting suicidal charges, which mostly do not result in caps either and the game is quickly over with the DD-equipped team winning hands down in less than 10 minutes. Now, I usually play DD and of course have nothing against winning as such, but those games, where you simply trample the opposition to the ground in a few minutes are just disappointing in the extreme. No adrenaline rush! In my opinion 2-3 DD's per team per game would be ideal. 4 is a lot and 5 or more is way too much... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thracen Players 525 posts 8,871 battles Report post #12 Posted September 13, 2017 9 hours ago, Commander_Cornflakes said: 1vs2 DDs is not even the worst, there are matches with 1vs0 DDs. And those are really bad for my average damage because they are over after 6 minutes with the enemy team having zero caps. I tend to play a lot of CCs and actually find the zero games easier. I know that only a certain area of the map can be covered so if I see an enemy cap ticking I know where the dd is and where I can play without spotting risk. 7 hours ago, Yorkie_GBR said: I suspect you mean a variation of CL / CA but your proper use of the abbreviations for BB and DD makes me doubt myself Something I picked up on this forum to lump both light and heavy cruisers together, not nato policy but people tend to get the drift most of the time. 4 hours ago, darky_fighter said: If it is statistically in terms of winrate fair balanced then it is fine for me. Honestly I don't know how they are looking at the statistics, I find it hard to believe it has little significance over match outcome. Everyone with a good understanding knows how important spotting is how having 0 spotting vs 1 spotting is balanced is beyond me. I think player skill, something often overlooked when it comes to mm, is probably fudging the figures. I too like a varied match pattern but the problem is without spotting you cannot position correctly. If you have no reasonably safe way to learn an enemy position often the best course of action is to stay back and camp with as many ships as possible. Exactly what nobody wants! 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mtm78 Alpha Tester 19,378 posts 6,105 battles Report post #13 Posted September 13, 2017 4 hours ago, darky_fighter said: If it is statistically in terms of winrate fair balanced then it is fine for me. I love different match situations. My problem is: My winrate goes down when the enemy has an OMNI-CV-Divi. But this is another issue. ^^ Nerf all the OMNI players, very much game breaking. They ruin my enjoyment, I even got owned by those second rank owned guys At least SPUDS... yeah right :D Anyway, on topic: Yes spotting is a central mechanic, but for many ships after opening salvo they keep visible anyway ( only exceptions are our BLINKING battleships which fade into concealment during reloads... such broken mechanic, this blinking really annoys new players WG ). Should be rewarded more though yeah, initial spotting. Is it a really big issue? Kinda, kinda not. Battleships should also be rewarded for tanking, and not lose 75% of rewards for potential damage..... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dragnorak Players 617 posts 6,737 battles Report post #14 Posted September 13, 2017 4 minutes ago, mtm78 said: Nerf all the OMNI players, very much game breaking. They ruin my enjoyment, I even got owned by those second rank owned guys At least SPUDS... yeah right :D Anyway, on topic: Yes spotting is a central mechanic, but for many ships after opening salvo they keep visible anyway ( only exceptions are our BLINKING battleships which fade into concealment during reloads... such broken mechanic, this blinking really annoys new players WG ). Should be rewarded more though yeah, initial spotting. Is it a really big issue? Kinda, kinda not. Battleships should also be rewarded for tanking, and not lose 75% of rewards for potential damage..... I've never seen an OMNI player, who are they anyway? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mtm78 Alpha Tester 19,378 posts 6,105 battles Report post #15 Posted September 13, 2017 4 minutes ago, Dragnorak said: I've never seen an OMNI player, who are they anyway? Not really 100%, they are mythical creatures that are said have won the KoTS tournament multiple times already. I think a wild Strangers123 has been spotted during a certain Gamescom event once.. I think all OMNI players dress as ships in their free time... 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dragnorak Players 617 posts 6,737 battles Report post #16 Posted September 13, 2017 I have however seen lots of SNUBS but never a mythical OMNI on my travels.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mtm78 Alpha Tester 19,378 posts 6,105 battles Report post #17 Posted September 13, 2017 SNUBS are a subspecies, if you consider the wider family of SCRUBS I am sure you have met quite a few Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EmilyFara Players 1,091 posts 2,423 battles Report post #18 Posted September 13, 2017 Spotting doesn't do crap... 75000 spotting damage, 1,1mil potential damage, smoked my team constanly and kept spotting... this is the result: Clearly it isn't important. And this is with premium, premium camo and flags. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[CHEFT] DFens_666 Players 13,162 posts 11,029 battles Report post #19 Posted September 13, 2017 Ye had a match yesterday T4/5 MM without any DDs. The Enemy BBs kept Circling their own Spawn x_x Really they didnt go anywhere but made 360° turns all the time. Think it was 4 of them all on the same spot... 8 mins into the game i got 2 salvos of, coz unlucky for me, all the enemy Cruisers were on the other side of the map :( Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[SLAPP] lameoll Players 1,792 posts 10,834 battles Report post #20 Posted September 13, 2017 1 hour ago, mtm78 said: SNUBS are a subspecies You called M'lord? Annyway like i said before im all about having the same ammount of dds in a game. like tyrendian said you cant put a khaba against a gearing and expect u have a dd on both teams. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mtm78 Alpha Tester 19,378 posts 6,105 battles Report post #21 Posted September 13, 2017 11 minutes ago, lameoll said: You called M'lord? Dear pleb, my title is Lord High Admiral, to the salt mines with you! 12 minutes ago, lameoll said: like tyrendian said you cant put a khaba against a gearing and expect u have a dd on both teams. WG really need to start listening ( AGAIN..... ) and have MM use roles not classes... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[SCRUB] ApesTogetherStronK [SCRUB] Players 1,074 posts Report post #22 Posted September 13, 2017 1 hour ago, mtm78 said: Dear pleb, my title is Lord High Admiral, to the salt mines with you! WG really need to start listening ( AGAIN..... ) and have MM use roles not classes... And if they still want to balance by class they could at least split everything into their proper classes rather than lumping everything under 4 classes. We could, at the very least have: DD DDT (Torpedo Boat DD's) DDL (DD Leaders - Khaba) CL CLAA CA CAV (Aviation Cruisers - Tone etc.) BC BB BBV (Aviation Battleships) CVE (Escort Carriers, like Langley and Bogue) CVL CV Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[SLAPP] lameoll Players 1,792 posts 10,834 battles Report post #23 Posted September 13, 2017 1 hour ago, mtm78 said: salt mines with you normaly i am the salt mine Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ton0kki Players 117 posts 7,003 battles Report post #24 Posted September 13, 2017 They should implement spotting ribbon. You would get ribbon every time you are the only one spotting enemy ship that is hit. While this certainly wouldn't solve problem of uneven match making or incompetent DD players, maybe it would give some players the needed hint. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thracen Players 525 posts 8,871 battles Report post #25 Posted September 13, 2017 I like the idea of having visible instant feedback on spotting, would help teach people about the mechanic at least. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
