Is it time for DD to receive some love?

[Capra76]

The following is the proportion of games played by ships at each tier for the w/e 26/08/2017 as per this link: http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/ranking/20170826/eu_week/average_ship.html

 

Tier	BB	CA	DD	CV
3	38.3%	44.9%	16.8%	0%
4	35.6%	34.8%	18.9%	10.7%
5	30.3%	40.1%	20.9%	8.7%
6	.35.0%	42.9%	16.9%	5.2%
7	38.2%	39.2%	16.8%	5.7%
8	41.6%	38.6%	14.1%	5.7%
9	39.0%	35.0%	21.7%	4.2%
10	34.2%	37.9%	24.8%	3.1%

 

So outside of T9/10 DD represent about 16% of games played, which to say on average about 2 DD per game.  Is this acceptable? 

 

It strikes me that low DD number are starting to become problematic since it leads to frequent imbalances in team composition, which hands one side a substantial advantage, particularly in a domination game where it can be 0 v 1 or 1 v 2.

 

Am I worrying about nothing?  If not what can be done to fix it?

[bushwacker001]

2 DD's a game is more than enough if you are playing a DD (or a BB) 

[ThePurpleSmurf]

It's actually very interesting that the lowest % for DD is at Tier 8. I absolutely love Tier 8 as DD because it gives so much XP when uptiered and Benson / Lo Yang does well against Tier 9 and 10.

[Culiacan_Mexico]

15 minutes ago, Capra76 said:

Is it time for DD to receive some love?

Seriously, no.  

[Bladezfist]

Buff IJN so I get another DD line I want to play.

[shamelesscreature]

41 minutes ago, ThePurpleSmurf said:

It's actually very interesting that the lowest % for DD is at Tier 8.

I think this mostly comes down to the availability of premium ships. At T8, there are basically 3 premium BBs (including Bismarck with the free perma camo everyone got), 4 premium cruisers (including Takao) and only 1 premium DD which needs its own captain to make matters worse. Also, in the time frame OP observed, the Yamamoto campaign encouraged playing high tier CAs and CVs, so playing DDs was naturally less attractive. 

 

 

[rvfharrier]

Radar-capable ships, not just cruisers, need to be mirrored and capped. I'm torn between a cap of two or three, but probably leaning towards two. In an ideal world the Black and the Missouri would lose their radars, but I'll keep dreaming on that one.

 

I won't call the numbers wrong, but I'm genuinely surprised to see them so low. DDs don't seem that rare in my experience! Two DDs per side is actually not that far off what I would say was ideal though, which would be three per side.

[Culiacan_Mexico]

5 minutes ago, rvfharrier said:

I won't call the numbers wrong, but I'm genuinely surprised to see them so low. 

The numbers are comparable to what Sub_Octavian posted.  DD numbers have been in free fall for the last 18 months.

[GhostRiderMax123]

32 minutes ago, rvfharrier said:

Radar-capable ships, not just cruisers, need to be mirrored and capped. I'm torn between a cap of two or three, but probably leaning towards two. In an ideal world the Black and the Missouri would lose their radars, but I'll keep dreaming on that one.

 

I won't call the numbers wrong, but I'm genuinely surprised to see them so low. DDs don't seem that rare in my experience! Two DDs per side is actually not that far off what I would say was ideal though, which would be three per side.

 

I do think that MM needs to take into account the type of ship and the ships being used by players into account. for example I went up against a div of 3 shimas this morning.........and a div of 2 shimas later on to say that there was walls of skill everywere is an understatement. It made both teams just camp all battle

 

Also I dont think that the issue is DD's themselves. I think it has more to do with the fleshy thing using them, I've lost count of how many times I have seen them charge into a cap and die or smoke up and then get torped and die......

Radar and hydro does need looking at in terms of making it not go through islands but as things stand I dont think it needs to go.

[rvfharrier]

Oh I never said radar has to go, only on certain ships that I named where it frankly has no place. I'm happy for radar and hydro to remain as they are now, but too much of it around can seriously make life difficult for the DDs much in the same that way too many BBs in the battles make life difficult for the cruisers.

 

As for the fleshy thing behind them, sure. I'd say DDs were probably the hardest non-CV class to play 'well', and I think that comes across in the numbers posted above. Interesting to see that rather than hitting a roadblock and jumping to other classes, DDs as a class just never really seem to take off. Too high of a difficulty curve for beginners at T3 and they get put off? Quite a lot of knowledge of game mechanics required to play DDs well, could be that the lack of any sort of tutorial is simply making the class too inaccessible to newer players.

[creamgravy]

Average DD player experience.

 

Tier 2, 3, 4. 'Yolo! This is fun'

Tier 5. 'Here I come CV! Oh I'm detected, time to pop smoke. Who's firing 12 HE shells at me every 7 seconds? I'm dead? WTF? Hax'

Tier 6-8. Nope.

Tier 10. 'I spent $$$ to free XP the Shimakaze and I'm gonna damn well use it'

[Ferry_25]

I think the IJN DD line could use some TLC. Slight concealment advantage or torp stealth. Only slight! Nothing ridiculous.

as far as the issue with radar on non cruisers. I can't speak about Black cause I don't have it. It's a very rare sight though. I do have Missouri. I can say it's highly situational. I've been in lots and lots more situations where I'd rather have had the spotter plane.

[Armorin]

1 hour ago, Capra76 said:

The following is the proportion of games played by ships at each tier for the w/e 26/08/2017 as per this link: http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/ranking/20170826/eu_week/average_ship.html

 

Tier	BB	CA	DD	CV
3	38.3%	44.9%	16.8%	0%
4	35.6%	34.8%	18.9%	10.7%
5	30.3%	40.1%	20.9%	8.7%
6	.35.0%	42.9%	16.9%	5.2%
7	38.2%	39.2%	16.8%	5.7%
8	41.6%	38.6%	14.1%	5.7%
9	39.0%	35.0%	21.7%	4.2%
10	34.2%	37.9%	24.8%	3.1%

 

So outside of T9/10 DD represent about 16% of games played, which to say on average about 2 DD per game.  Is this acceptable? 

 

It strikes me that low DD number are starting to become problematic since it leads to frequent imbalances in team composition, which hands one side a substantial advantage, particularly in a domination game where it can be 0 v 1 or 1 v 2.

 

Am I worrying about nothing?  If not what can be done to fix it?

 

Not surprised at the stats. Often had games around T6/7 where there are no DD's at all, which puts pressure on the RN CL's to cap which may frequently lead to an early return to port.

Domination mode seems to lead to plenty of DD's that appear to have slow loading times. The cap rush requires good skill to know when to abort without getting deleted. DD's are priority target, but that last standing DD can be a big advantage to the team.

Standard mode gives DD's a lot more freedom to scout and menace.

They are one of the more difficult classes to learn. I tend to get compliments and reports in equal measure! But then I am an almost half-baked potato who sometimes has a good game alongside the usual shockers.

Highest tier games seem to have a much better balance of DD's.

So maybe a different game mode type is needed, as the majority domination mode puts DD players in a straight jacket that most of them don't know how to wriggle out of.

[Capra76]

1 hour ago, bushwacker001 said:

2 DD's a game is more than enough if you are playing a DD (or a BB) 

 

2 DD is adequate if both sides have them, but with such low numbers you frequently see 1 or even 0 on your team, and if your 1 DD is AFK or a potato you might as well head back to port.

 

 

1 hour ago, shamelesscreature said:

I think this mostly comes down to the availability of premium ships. At T8, there are basically 3 premium BBs (including Bismarck with the free perma camo everyone got), 4 premium cruisers (including Takao) and only 1 premium DD which needs its own captain to make matters worse. Also, in the time frame OP observed, the Yamamoto campaign encouraged playing high tier CAs and CVs, so playing DDs was naturally less attractive.

 

I think the problem may be more fundamental. 

 

Far and away the most popular DD at T9/10 are the two lines that date back to the game's launch, which to me says that these are being played by people who ground the line 12-18 months ago and are still playing the T9/10 ships.

 

T8 is barren because players are giving up on the lines before they reach T8 and those that get there aren't progressing to T9, T9/10 is reasonably well populated because the lines were popular 18 months ago and anybody who reached T8 has now ground on to T9/10, but there isn't the supply line of new players at mid tiers to sustain the T9/10 population into the longer term, as time goes on the T9/10 population could dwindle to very low levels.

 

I think this is starting to become a big issue.

[lilgoth]

We cant upset the BBabies now can we ? 

[Butterdoll]

32 minutes ago, creamgravy said:

Average DD player experience.

 

Tier 2, 3, 4. 'Yolo! This is fun'

Tier 5. 'Here I come CV! Oh I'm detected, time to pop smoke. Who's firing 12 HE shells at me every 7 seconds? I'm dead? WTF? Hax'

Tier 6-8. Nope.

Tier 10. 'I spent $$$ to free XP the Shimakaze and I'm gonna damn well use it'

 

 

 

ahahahahah.

 

small correction

tier 2 and 3. "yolo! this is fun"

tier 4 "'Here I come, Barge (bb)! Oh I'm detected, time to pop smoke, [edited]it ...

the rest I don't know yet.

[Admiral_noodle]

Probably doesn't help that the team often whinge at dds for not spotting or capping or whatever. 

 

I find dds no problem. But I have a lot more "blow out" games in them which can make them intensely frustrating. 

 

Tier 8 is a steep learning curve for dds as radar and hydro pop up everywhere and players generally know to "shoot the dd". 

 

All of a sudden the dd play style has to be tempered with more considered and patient actions. I suspect a lot of dd players think "nah not what I want" and either skip to the high tiers where you can have all the torps or all the guns - or go back to hectic dd play at lower tiers with Clemson minekaze etc....

 

tier 8 really felt like a battering to me in dds. 

[Deckeru_Maiku]

When I play my DDs I really HATE to see 4+ DDs per team in a battle.

A maximum of 3 DDs is my "comfort zone".

 

When in any other class, I am not bothered by the number of DDs in any way. Usually they mostly take care of each other anyway. Cruisers can delete them easily (usually) and I've met many (way too many in fact) DDs that seemed to really get nervous, when they were faced with a BB hunting THEM and not the other way 'round.

 

A buff for IJN torps would still be appreciated, though

[BeauNidl3]

The IJN DD's could use a bit of a buff as at the moment they aren't a lot of fun to play compared to the others, I have Shiratsu and being overtaken by my own side cruisers and escaping spotting range is a pain compared to the USN and Soviet DD's I play.

Sure they're sneaky as all hell, but their torpedoes seem very easy to spot so they have very little going for them.

In survivability terms they're fragile, but that's part of the fun aspect and skill that I know I need to improve on.

Recently started on the KM DD's and they seem OK so far.

Not tried the Pan Asia ones or Blys as leveling a Captain from scratch doesn't appeal.

[JG4_sKylon]

I stopped playing DDs at higher tiers because it´s too often no fun at all.

I admit i am a bit on the aggressive side when playing them so of course it´s also my fault when i get wrecked but i really can´t stand

the combination of

 

- radar/sonar everywhere (even on BBs)

- radar ships don´t get balanced in the matchmaking

- if you try to support your team you will get spotted unexpectedly at some point

- getting wrecked by HE from CA/DD is okay, what really pisses me off is that finishing 5-8k BB-AP salvo deleting or at least crippling you for the rest of the match.

 

For me, there´s not much fun in playing the DDs...exception are Kiev/Tashkent etc.

[Culiacan_Mexico]

6 hours ago, GhostRider_24 said:

...Radar and hydro does need looking at in terms of making it not go through islands...

This would be a start.

[darky_fighter]

I am against "love". "Love" means easier to play. We have BBs for this.

 

I remember these times:

 

 

We also had a lot of threads in this forum. The result was a torpedo nerf. I don't want such nerfs anymore. 2 DDs per match are fine.

[Culiacan_Mexico]

10 minutes ago, darky_fighter said:

2 DDs per match are fine.

Agreed.

[Guillotine]

Its not long ( 6months or so ) when there was 4+ DDs per side barely 1 Cruiser and rest BBs and it was not fun.

 

Now CVs seem to be bit more popular wich reduces DD effectivenes alot, combined with increased Cruisers thx to yamamoto missions. DDs are in bit rough spot atm in terms of stealth, but there should be preferrably 2 DDs per team.

 

US line is quite annoying untill Benson and it deters players, if you cannot use torps why would you wanna play DDs?

 

IJN gets harder higher up you get and Kagero is just rockbottom in terms of power to its tier. Only saving grace is the stealth, torps are unreliable and easy to spot. Im playing yugumo for the missions and its more frustration than fun during matches, now with reload booster its Fun, unless enemy CV is making your life miserable.

[RUSSIANBlAS]

I enjoy playing higher tier USN DDs but they're essentially quite passive. Your guns are self defence and used against other DDs who threaten your team, maybe vs a low HP cruiser you can open up too. Essentially breaking concealment is a death sentence as everyone knows to shoot DDs now and I laugh at rival DDs who try and shoot you, they end up being shredded by your team whilst they're gun bloomed whilst you slip back into concealment as you have fire discipline.

 

I actually don't think the smoke nerfs will do a thing to change this either.