Supercontainer Change proposal

[Favuz]

Hello Guys,

 

I'm just about to unlock 3rd Yamamoto stage, so i'll receive 2 supercontainers.

 

In the first couple i received 25 ourobros flags and 50 valentine camos, so i can't complain.

 

Anyway, i was thinking more about random supercontainers.

 

I pick usually 5 to 10 containers a week, depends from my schedule.

Pick almost always consumables ones, sometimes flags, and i didn't had a supercontainer since April i think (50 dragon flags).

 

Now imagine if today or Tomorrow i got a supercontainer and it contains a spotting Aircraft module.

 

Thing is, everyone have different needs about this game.

 

I was thinking to this: when you get a supercontainer, you got to choose between 3 random things instead of one.

 

So you could choose the thing you like more in that particular time.

 

Example:

 

I got to choose between 10 million credits, a Marblehead or a Radar Upgrade module

 

I am in needs of credits, i need to buy that donskoi who i just unlocked 2 weeks ago, i pick Credits

I am a player with premium time but don't like high tiers, i pick Marblehead

I am Flamu, i have a crap ton of credits and everyship i want, i pick Radar Upgrade for my Moskva.

 

 

Everybody would be happier the rare times they got a supercontainer, WG is happier because customer are happier without being too generous, everybody is happier.

 

 

Your thoughts?

 

 

[aboomination]

I'm not Flamu, I don't have a crap ton of credits and every ship I want and I still pick the radar upgrade 

[TerTerro]

Would be nice to pick what you need more :) 

[RAHJAILARI]

Hheeey, don't complain! I have already collected 4 of those awesome Spotting Aircraft modifications and going for more... BUT other than my obsession of accumulating more of them ad infinitum, I like your idea of having a choice. I would probably always go for flags or camos though.

[mrk421]

Essentially the proposal is: if I get lucky and roll a Super container, I want to get a pick of three Super containers instead, ie roll three instead of one. Who wouldn't want that! Unfortunately I don't see that working without some rebalancing like nerfing overall SC drop chances.

 

If the choice was between items of the same type, it might work, but would also be less appealing. What I mean is, if you rolled a module, you could pick which module to take. Or which flags, if it rolled flags etc. But strictly between items of the same value. Like you could choose between the halloween camo or the WG anniversary camo because they both have the same bonuses, but you couldn't pick the Victory day camo or something else instead of them.

[RAHJAILARI]

Oh yeah, this is a very good idea. It does make sense that the choice would be between same types of items. I would even be happy with only 2 choices so i could always make sure to get more of the highly useful Spotting Aircraft Modifications (everyone would, of course, pick that one without fail would they not?).

[Favuz]

17 minutes ago, mrk421 said:

Essentially the proposal is: if I get lucky and roll a Super container, I want to get a pick of three Super containers instead, ie roll three instead of one. Who wouldn't want that! Unfortunately I don't see that working without some rebalancing like nerfing overall SC drop chances.

 

If the choice was between items of the same type, it might work, but would also be less appealing. What I mean is, if you rolled a module, you could pick which module to take. Or which flags, if it rolled flags etc. But strictly between items of the same value. Like you could choose between the halloween camo or the WG anniversary camo because they both have the same bonuses, but you couldn't pick the Victory day camo or something else instead of them.

 

As far as i know, there is a chance of dropping a super container and a nested chance for every item in the supercontainer.

 

With my proposal, the chance of getting a good supercontainer (ship, doubloons etc)  increases 3 times indeed ( i am not keen on statistics, i might be wrong).

 

This probably would need a little of rebalancing for the nested chance, not for the overall chance.

 

Example:

 

Now when you get a supercontainer chance for a ship is 5%, doubloons 10, premium time 10, flag 25, modules 25 and camo 25 (numbers invented by me)

 

With my proposal, new chance should be something 2% ship, 4% doubloons, 4% premium time, flag 33%, modules 33 and camo 33

 

Something that while overall chance of dropping the single item would be roughly the same, the chance i got something useful FOR ME is greatly increased.

[hgbn_dk]

Super containers are fine now since they reduced the chance of getting those special modules!! Please don't change.

[hgbn_dk]

Besides that the idea of super containers is that  of a lottery and in a lottery you can't chose your prize.

[HatsuzukiKaiNi]

While I don't think I agree with everything I wouldn't mind some limited choice. I think it would be a good idea if you could pick the special module you get when you roll one as lord knows I don't need another spotter plane upgrade but Hydro, Radar or Engine boost would be great.

 

I could also maybe see it not being too unbalanced if you were allowed a choice of some basic flags. (probably not the super flags though)

[DFens_666]

I think it would be nice to have the possibility to choose the special module by your needs. Since they decreased the chance for them, i got 2 times 100 normal flags (and some other stuff), thats also not really super tho.

A failed TYL usually ends in 4 Flags. If i take the flag Container i usually get 3*4 flags. So thats 8 Flags more then the TYL container. In conclusion, i need 12,5 normal flag containers ( abit more since u dont get 12 flags always) to get the amount of 1 SC with 100 Flags. But ofc, SCs arent that frequent. And on the plusside, with Flag container i get different flags all the time, not 100 of one kind which are more or less usefull.

So i think a buff there would be good:

Increase amount of Normal Flags to 150 and/or give 3 different flags each 33 or maybe 50? If u could choose them, id take Papapapa mostly i guess, since i usually dont have them. I dont see that as a good option for normal flags.

 

Im not ranting here about something, just trying to show that some options of the SC isnt really that super in the end. Ofc its great to get something big. 50 special Camouflage or 100 Special Flags is great f.e.

[suppenkaschperl]

I would be happy if they remove those special upgrades completly from the supercontainers. Getting a SC and receiving my 7th useless modul is like eh...

An option to choose one of three different gifts would be great too.

[GeorgeT1012_gt]

5 hours ago, Favuz said:

With my proposal, the chance of getting a good supercontainer (ship, doubloons etc)  increases 3 times indeed ( i am not keen on statistics, i might be wrong).

 

This probably would need a little of rebalancing for the nested chance, not for the overall chance.

...

With my proposal, new chance should be something 2% ship, 4% doubloons, 4% premium time, flag 33%, modules 33 and camo 33

...

 

I see you get the general idea but you made some mistakes here, for example 33+33+33+4+4+2=109, if you add the percentages of chances the result should be 100, and some other things are wrong in  this proposal. Everyone makes mistakes, its ok. Please don't take it personaly, no offence intended. It's not obligatory for everyone to know statistics. 

Anyway I get your point but this is not exactly how this works, so let me explain this a bit.

In fact you get 3 supercontainers at once, while you have to choose one. Each item has a pre-set chance of dropping. For every SC option you get to the list and randomly get a reward, according to drop chance. With flags modules and camo for example having the biggest chances the most usual thing will be a combination of theese three. But it will be also possible to see 2 or 3 SCs of the same kind at once! This does not make sense, considering the original idea right?

Unless you set it differently. You have to disable the option of double and triple drops by removing the item that dropped from the drop list.

For example:

flags 50%

camo 25%

modules 12,5%

doubloons 5%

credits 5%

ship 2,5%

The first SC has flags, we remove them allong with their chance

So the chance sum becomes 50%, but it should be 100%, so we multiply the chance sum with the right number to become 100, in this case 2

With the same number we multiply all the other chances and get to the next drop

The new chances for the other rewards are:

camo 50%

modules 25%

doubloons 10%

credits 10%

ship 5%

The second SC has camo

Doing the same we did before and:

modules 50%

doubloons 20%

credits 20%

ship 10%

.....

So we end up with 10% chance of ship for the last SC from 2,5% for the first, 4 times higher!

And all that by not letting the player get the same reward type multiple times!

Of course in game the chances are different, I chose theese values to make the example easy but I think you get the point.

By having 3 different reward types, as the original post suggests, you increase the chance to get a very good reward at the last container (of course not by 4, this was just an example).

This means that players will get the very good rewards more often, here things become a bit complicated. Players getting ships and doubloons more often may be good for them, but at the same time this not so good for the company, as this lowers their potential income, the sell less because the give more things for free. 

So here comes the chance rebalancing, if you lower the initial chance, you lower also your final right? But at the same time you have to increase the chances of the 'bad' rewards as the sum has to be 100%. This means that when the high chance item drops and gets out of the list, the other chances are multiplied with a higher number to reach again 100%!

Anyway, the chances will not remain the same throughout the process and the last SC will always have the highest chance of a good reward.

So no matter what, the chances of a good reward increase and most players will select doubloons and ships, something not ideal if you have a business right?

Good idea overall, but as you can see I don't expect something like that to happen for ..... obvious reasons.

[22cm]

My last 2 SC: 2 AA supershitupgrade.

[hgbn_dk]

last five super containers 2 from the Yamamoto campaign and 3 regular drops. 2x 14days of premium 1x 25 dragon flag 1x radar special module and last HMAS Perth and a 10 point commander so I'm not complaining at all

[mrk421]

5 hours ago, GeorgeT1012_gt said:

But it will be also possible to see 2 or 3 SCs of the same kind at once! This does not make sense, considering the original idea right?

In fact it makes perfect sense.

 

4 hours ago, GeorgeT1012_gt said:

[...]

So we end up with 10% chance of ship for the last SC from 2,5% for the first, 4 times higher!

And all that by not letting the player get the same reward type multiple times!

Of course in game the chances are different, I chose theese values to make the example easy but I think you get the point.

By having 3 different reward types, as the original post suggests, you increase the chance to get a very good reward at the last container (of course not by 4, this was just an example).

[...]

 

Nowhere in the original proposal did I get the impression that the same reward type should not be rolled multiple times. In fact, if I understood it correctly, it was almost an assumption that you would often get the same reward type on more than one roll. The presumption was, that even if all three containers roll a module, there's a better chance that at least one of those three would be one that you would find useful.

 

So your lengthy analysis is kind of unnecessary. All three SC would roll independently using identical drop tables.

[GeorgeT1012_gt]

18 hours ago, mrk421 said:

In fact it makes perfect sense.

 

 

Nowhere in the original proposal did I get the impression that the same reward type should not be rolled multiple times. In fact, if I understood it correctly, it was almost an assumption that you would often get the same reward type on more than one roll. The presumption was, that even if all three containers roll a module, there's a better chance that at least one of those three would be one that you would find useful.

 

So your lengthy analysis is kind of unnecessary. All three SC would roll independently using identical drop tables.

 

Well, I didn't see anyone talking about same type drops anywhere in here, let alone 3 identical items, everyone is talking about 3 different items each time.

But even if you enable the game mechanism to drop same type rewards without removing the dropped item from the list, the chances triple.

Of course the chance rebalance is much easier in this case but still there is a chance to get 3 identical drops, for example 3 of the same special equipment, something that is against the general idea of beeing able to choose the reward you want. How can you choose according to your needs from 3 identical items?

Getting 3 identical rewards that you don't actualy need and having to choose one of them causes a much greater inconvenience than simply getting one reward you don't want.

By the time the rewards that most players don't want have a much higher chance of dropping, I can assure you that such cases will be often!

So considering how statistics work and what players want, enabling the system to give 3 identical items and letting you choose, let alone that this will be often, will make players angry more times than it will make them happy.

Independent drops for 3 SCs are not what the players realy want and you end up with removing the dropped items, so my analysis is not so unnecessary.

[aboomination]

On 9/7/2017 at 3:12 PM, suppenkaschperl said:

I would be happy if they remove those special upgrades completly from the supercontainers. Getting a SC and receiving my 7th useless modul is like eh...

An option to choose one of three different gifts would be great too.

But I still need several special upgrades 

[LOZFFVII]

On 07/09/2017 at 8:59 AM, Favuz said:

Example:

 

I got to choose between 10 million credits, a Marblehead or a Radar Upgrade module

I don't like the idea of being able to see what's in the SC at the time, it takes away some of the excitement.

 

I'd rather see a choice of:

Credits SC

Flags/Camo SC

Consumables SC

 

All of which have something random in them, just more specific to what I may be in need of at the time.

Credits SC would have a random reward of Large Sum of Credits, Doubloons, Free XP or Elite Cap XP.

Flags/Camo SC would have a random reward of Large Number of Standard Flags, Large Number of Standard Camo, Special Flags or Special Camo.

Consumables SC would have a random reward of Large Number of Premium Consumables, More Upgrades or a Special Upgrade.

And of course each one still has the low chance of rolling Premium Time or Premium Ships, and the particular ship is still random.

 

That's how I would do it.

[mrk421]

2 hours ago, GeorgeT1012_gt said:

 

Well, I didn't see anyone talking about same type drops anywhere in here, let alone 3 identical items, everyone is talking about 3 different items each time.

But even if you enable the game mechanism to drop same type rewards without removing the dropped item from the list, the chances triple. Which is what I pointed out in my first reply and why I said it wouldn't happen, at least not without some rebalancing.

Of course the chance rebalance is much easier in this case but still there is a chance to get 3 identical drops, for example 3 of the same special equipment, something that is against the general idea of beeing able to choose the reward you want. How can you choose according to your needs from 3 identical items? Getting 3 modules from 3 supercontainers is not the same as getting the exact same module from 3 random supercontainers. I presume that each module has exactly the same chance to drop between them. So the chances of getting the exact same module from 3 random supercontainers is not that high, although it definitely could happen - and indeed would be quite dumb and irritating if it did happen. But to fix that you'd only have to remove a module that has already dropped from the loot tables of the following SCs(increasing the chances of the other modules correspondingly, to add up to 100%), not remove the chance to drop modules altogether. If that made sense... But yes, like you said. With such a mechanic, the overall chances to get a good item (ship, doubloons) would triple - although they'd be the same for the first SC that's rolled and the others.

Getting 3 identical rewards that you don't actualy need and having to choose one of them causes a much greater inconvenience than simply getting one reward you don't want.

By the time the rewards that most players don't want have a much higher chance of dropping, I can assure you that such cases will be often!

So considering how statistics work and what players want, enabling the system to give 3 identical items and letting you choose, let alone that this will be often, will make players angry more times than it will make them happy.

Independent drops for 3 SCs are not what the players realy want and you end up with removing the dropped items, so my analysis is not so unnecessary.

 

[battle_ensign]

On 08/09/2017 at 6:14 PM, Captain_LOZFFVII said:

I don't like the idea of being able to see what's in the SC at the time, it takes away some of the excitement.

 

I'd rather see a choice of:

Credits SC

Flags/Camo SC

Consumables SC

 

All of which have something random in them, just more specific to what I may be in need of at the time.

Credits SC would have a random reward of Large Sum of Credits, Doubloons, Free XP or Elite Cap XP.

Flags/Camo SC would have a random reward of Large Number of Standard Flags, Large Number of Standard Camo, Special Flags or Special Camo.

Consumables SC would have a random reward of Large Number of Premium Consumables, More Upgrades or a Special Upgrade.

And of course each one still has the low chance of rolling Premium Time or Premium Ships, and the particular ship is still random.

 

That's how I would do it.

 

I open three containers most days and I haven't seen a random supercontainer in months.

If ido get one, I'd like to see a choice of consumables or flags.

[mrk421]

1 hour ago, battle_ensign said:

 

I open three containers most days and I haven't seen a random supercontainer in months.

If ido get one, I'd like to see a choice of consumables or flags.

Then you're weird Most people would like to see either a ship or a ton of doubloons.

 

Frankly, SCs are so underwhelming that for the most part I don't even remember that they're in the game - other than when I happen to get one or when threads like this pop up. If I understand correctly, they're supposed to be a kind of 'lottery', but what good is a lottery if it doesn't get people excited and thinking about the stuff they could win or how they'd spend their winnings?! I think the SC system could have had great potential, but not how it's implemented now. So what went wrong? Right now when you get a SC, you get fireworks, the screen starts to flicker, confetti flies all over the place - the full monty - as if you've won the grand prize, whereas in reality what you won was a chance at the grand prize. It's this double dice roll that IMO ruins their potential. Even if you make the second dice roll more favourable - like the OP and some others have essentially suggested - it still doesn't fix the fundamental issue that there are two dice rolls. The way I see it, there are two ways to make SCs part of the formula to incentivise people to come back and spend more time playing this game - which I suspect they were intended to do:

 

- First option would be to remove everything else from the prize pool, and leave only doubloons and premium ships. Those are the only items that cannot reliably be earned in-game, therefore they are the most coveted prizes. Of course this would be accompanied by a severe cut on the SC drop chances, but at least when you happen to get one, you'll know that it's something good or at least unique.

- Second option would be to leave SCs untouched, but introduce a reliable way of earning them. For example there could be a recurring weekly mission where everyone who earns a set amount of base XP in a week, gets a supercontainer. For something like this to be meaningful, the requirements should be reasonably met by the majority of dedicated players - I'd say someone who plays at least 30-40 battles per week is quite dedicated - perhaps around 50-60k base XP in a week. If the requirements were so high that they could be met only by the top players or those who play at least 10h per day, it would be pointless. IMO that would be and excellent way to motivate people to play the game more AND get the excited and thinking about what they'd do with the stuff they get.

 

Of those two, the second one would be my preferred choice if implemented in a reasonable manner, not the typical WG way.

 

LET'S MAKE SUPERCONTAINERS GREAT AGAIN!

 

[battle_ensign]

I don't think i'm weird, just realistic.

There is no way WG are going to give away tons of ships or dubloons. However they might be persueded to put rare flags or consumables in them.

[hgbn_dk]

I'm pretty sure somewhere I saw a sort of a calculation of the percentages used in the SC drop pattern. First the drop chance of a SC would be 5% if you go for try your luck ones. Then in the SC itself you have 1% chance of getting a premium ship. So no wonder it is very rare to see a ship. Can't remember the other odds.

[hgbn_dk]

It would be cool to see more non buy able flags in the containers, agree on that. But hey it all is free stuff. Now I'm excited to see the content when I get a SC, after they nerfed the chance of getting the special modules and moved those slots where you can mount them into something useful. Previously I was almost annoyed when opening one.. expecting only to see special modules.