run, forest, run

[Prospect_b]

So I seem to getting more and more these kind of scenario's

That's just 5 minuted into the battle. I was chapayev, first near B to use radar in case of contest.

 

Anyway, see what is happening? The enemy (on both sides) either gets spotted or gets a few shells upon them, and immediately turns tail towards some unknown destination.

There was one enemy Izumo at C who at least tried to support his fletcher there and of course got focussed in less than a minute. Guess he won't make that mistake of getting into an agressive position anymore soon... 

 

And I see this more and more. People do not even bother anymore trying to win. We won this game on points, with half of enemy still alive, cowering in middle of nowhere. I guess I'm with the "lucky" team here, but I've been on that enemy team as well (yeay new chatban).

 

So: to Wargaming: Can you PLEASE inform your players how this game is meant to be played? And, I'm sorry to say, I'm not even being ironic here. So many people apparently have no idea at all about those weird circles on the map, and about points etc.

 

To anyone else: Is this just my imagination that this is appearing more & more? (Quite sure I'm not). If so: any ideas what to be done cause this is just boring and a waste of time.

 

(Conforming to forum rules, these posts have to be constructive. I don't really have any other ideas other than asking WG to educate its playerbase. Little ideas like gathering BB players into a leaky boat on the Atlantic probably won't conform...)

[SavageRat]

I can only guess that people are scared of dying in the 1st few minutes of the game, and then having to wait 15 minutes to play that ship again.

Maybe wg needs to allow players to take their ships out again straight away? Maybe this will encourage more aggressive play?

[Culiacan_Mexico]

4 minutes ago, PzychoPanzer said:

...any ideas what to be done...

Nerf DDs, especially Japanese one.  That will do it.

[Xevious_Red]

3 minutes ago, SavageRat said:

I can only guess that people are scared of dying in the 1st few minutes of the game, and then having to wait 15 minutes to play that ship again.

Maybe wg needs to allow players to take their ships out again straight away? Maybe this will encourage more aggressive play?

You'll have the opposite problem.

 

People will grind their battleships by yolo at full speed straight at enemy, fire their guns at something and die, then jump straight into the next game. Wr would take a hefty tanking but would rake in the xp for a ship if I could fit 15 games into 20 minutes, since 15x 200xp is better than 1x 1500 xp

[LOZFFVII]

9 minutes ago, Culiacan_Mexico said:

Nerf DDs, especially Japanese one.  That will do it.

I really hope you're joking...

 

On-topic: I don't really know how WG can improve the current playerbase. Education does seem to be the best (less-lethal) course of action.

Unfortunately, methinks the vast majority of the playerbase (especially the co-op only players) only want to play the game 'to relax'. While personally, I play the game to play in some of my favourite WWII warships and have fun while doing so - which to me involves improving at the game and winning in a skillful manner.

[RamirezKurita]

To be honest, the only possible way I can see to prevent this from happening properly is to introduce skill based matchmaking as some players will act like this no matter the information given to them. Unfortunately, this is something that WG are vehemently against.

[darkstar73]

23 minutes ago, Culiacan_Mexico said:

Nerf DDs, especially Japanese one.  That will do it.

Why nerf them mate? Ok. they have good torpedoes. But horrible guns. You can never win a gun fight against a US or Soviet destroyer. So what happend if you nerf IJN dd´s? They have nothing to come with. At least imo :) Don´t know if am right or wrong :)

 

[darkstar73]

11 minutes ago, RamirezKurita said:

To be honest, the only possible way I can see to prevent this from happening properly is to introduce skill based matchmaking as some players will act like this no matter the information given to them. Unfortunately, this is something that WG are vehemently against.

I love that idea :D It should work. It works in ranked. Pretty good. 

[rvfharrier]

12 minutes ago, Captain_LOZFFVII said:

I really hope you're joking...

 

1 minute ago, darkstar73 said:

Why nerf them mate?

 

He was joking people.

 

On topic, yes it is a problem. Incredibly frustrating when in a DD as your torps are effectively taken out of the game if all the enemies are running. Only real solution as mentioned above would be skill-based MM, but wouldn't recommend holding your breath on that front.

[darkstar73]

1 minute ago, rvfharrier said:

 

 

He was joking people.

 

On topic, yes it is a problem. Incredibly frustrating when in a DD as your torps are effectively taken out of the game if all the enemies are running. Only real solution as mentioned above would be skill-based MM, but wouldn't recommend holding your breath on that front.

Yes. Skillbased MM or TRUMP as CEO for Wargaming :D And Putin as developer :D Should be fun. Joke besides. This current meta sucks. It´s horrible. Something must be done. But what? Skillbased MM is great. What more can be done? 

[Juanx]

People are afraid to die, in a war game, that tells you all you need to know really...

[RUSSIANBlAS]

55 minutes ago, PzychoPanzer said:

So I seem to getting more and more these kind of scenario's

That's just 5 minuted into the battle. I was chapayev, first near B to use radar in case of contest.

 

Anyway, see what is happening? The enemy (on both sides) either gets spotted or gets a few shells upon them, and immediately turns tail towards some unknown destination.

There was one enemy Izumo at C who at least tried to support his fletcher there and of course got focussed in less than a minute. Guess he won't make that mistake of getting into an agressive position anymore soon... 

 

And I see this more and more. People do not even bother anymore trying to win. We won this game on points, with half of enemy still alive, cowering in middle of nowhere. I guess I'm with the "lucky" team here, but I've been on that enemy team as well (yeay new chatban).

 

So: to Wargaming: Can you PLEASE inform your players how this game is meant to be played? And, I'm sorry to say, I'm not even being ironic here. So many people apparently have no idea at all about those weird circles on the map, and about points etc.

 

To anyone else: Is this just my imagination that this is appearing more & more? (Quite sure I'm not). If so: any ideas what to be done cause this is just boring and a waste of time.

 

(Conforming to forum rules, these posts have to be constructive. I don't really have any other ideas other than asking WG to educate its playerbase. Little ideas like gathering BB players into a leaky boat on the Atlantic probably won't conform...)

 

lol, it's not even that bad.

 

Atleast two of the Red team are actually IN a cap.

 

Sometimes an entire team simply won't bother contesting at all...

[lameoll]

54 minutes ago, SavageRat said:

Maybe wg needs to allow players to take their ships out again straight away

this would be nice.

[Aotearas]

2 minutes ago, Negativvv said:

 

lol, it's not even that bad.

 

Atleast two of the Red team are actually IN a cap.

 

Sometimes an entire team simply won't bother contesting at all...

 

Yeah, and left alone those few ships that actually PTFO just get focused to kingdom come becaues all their supposed support just runs for the hills, then get crap rewards in XP and credits and more likely than not a loss anyway. Really motivates people to play the game properly ...

 

Been on the receiving end a lot and it really, really sucks because all you can do is either frantically disengage (tough luck with that) and run along with the cowards, or you just have to somehow defeat the entire flank by yourself.

And if you're seeing that kind of behaviour on the enemy team, it's an easy win, but also tends to end in crappy rewards because games typically end too fast if the enemy gets no caps.

 

Some form of discriminative MM could really do well with the game. People who PTFO get matched with and against others that PTFO and those who don't get matched against their own peers. Let the cowards have the boring, crap reward games ... I'll happily face tryhard pants wearing unicum divisions and have a real engaging fight than spend the majority of the game running after the fleeing enemy team just so I can get SOME damage done.

[HyoukaYukikaze]

35 minutes ago, darkstar73 said:

Why nerf them mate? Ok. they have good torpedoes. But horrible guns. You can never win a gun fight against a US or Soviet destroyer. So what happend if you nerf IJN dd´s? They have nothing to come with. At least imo :) Don´t know if am right or wrong :)

 

It was a joke. As battles of 12 BBs vs 12 BBs show, it's not problem with any particular ship, but player mindset. Not much WG can do about that, except discouraging sniping.
I personally would start by making sniping from 20km in BBs more difficult (higher penalties to shell speed and penetration for example at 15km+), effectively cutting down exp gained by vast majority of BB capitans. If very low gains from battles wouldnt encourage them to more active play, at the very least it would slow down their way to T10.

[Tubit101]

40 minutes ago, darkstar73 said:

What more can be done? 

 

Seems like the game is in need of less focus on damage and more focus on playing objectives. So rewarding capping and spotting better would be a step in the right direction. Currently, DDs get zero rewards for capping a base if their team loses. Capping in a winning match isn't great either. And as everyone is already well aware: most people would rather camp and take potshots at the enemy instead of assisting their DDs.

 

Currently, you can hardly cap anything without a DD, which makes them incredibly important and incredibly risky to play. However, DDs are not getting compensated properly. Neither do they get compensated properly for spotting or setting up smoke - actions which enables others to do well, but hardly the DD itself.

 

The ideal play for a DD is to go to a cap zone. Smoke along the cap border for his team mates, sail out of the smoke, then cap, spot enemies and torpedoes. All the while in an incredibly frail ship for disproportionally poor rewards.

 

All it takes is one radar, hydro or torp, and you're gone. WG needs to learn the concept of risk/reward. There is nothing risky about sniping at the map edge. Yet, it often pays better than to play the DD role correctly.

[WolfGewehr]

56 minutes ago, SavageRat said:

Maybe wg needs to allow players to take their ships out again straight away? Maybe this will encourage more aggressive play?

 

This indeed sounds a good idea first and one can easily come into the conclusion you came. But then, as @Xevious_Red said, it can easily backshlash and turn into mindless yoloing. And stupid, mindless yoloing is something I definitely don't want to see more ingame.

 

 

25 minutes ago, darkstar73 said:

This current meta sucks. It´s horrible. Something must be done. But what?

 

Push the red button and go back to CBT.  Honestly, I would gladly go back to those times. Full strike Hakuryu was insane but it was still a fun, more dynamic meta. Okay, the closed doors also meant that one other factor was vastly different, and this then impacted the gameplay too.

[RUSSIANBlAS]

10 minutes ago, Aotearas said:

 

Yeah, and left alone those few ships that actually PTFO just get focused to kingdom come becaues all their supposed support just runs for the hills, then get crap rewards in XP and credits and more likely than not a loss anyway. Really motivates people to play the game properly ...

 

Been on the receiving end a lot and it really, really sucks because all you can do is either frantically disengage (tough luck with that) and run along with the cowards, or you just have to somehow defeat the entire flank by yourself.

And if you're seeing that kind of behaviour on the enemy team, it's an easy win, but also tends to end in crappy rewards because games typically end too fast if the enemy gets no caps.

 

Some form of discriminative MM could really do well with the game. People who PTFO get matched with and against others that PTFO and those who don't get matched against their own peers. Let the cowards have the boring, crap reward games ... I'll happily face tryhard pants wearing unicum divisions and have a real engaging fight than spend the majority of the game running after the fleeing enemy team just so I can get SOME damage done.

Yes true...

 

It's why I don't play BB much anymore as they are reliant on the smaller ships making it happen. If your 2 or 3 DDs are morons then you've basically lost. I prefer to be in the ships that can actually make something happen. 

 

This campy bullcr@p is more of an issue here than in WoT as at least in Tanks most vehicles are fairly fast and can rotate to a different cap fairly quickly but here if a team has committed badly then they're basically not going to recover.

[RamirezKurita]

1 minute ago, Tubit101 said:

The ideal play for a DD is to go to a cap zone. Smoke along the cap border for his team mates, sail out of the smoke, then cap, spot enemies and torpedoes. All the while in an incredibly frail ship for disproportionally poor rewards.

 

I think the reward issue is partially due to spotting rewards being extremely low in WoWS, I don't know what the actual ratio of experience earned from spotting is but I've had games of 150,000+ damage from spotting and yet it hardly seemed to impact my overall experience earned and credit income.

[Tubit101]

3 minutes ago, RamirezKurita said:

 

I think the reward issue is partially due to spotting rewards being extremely low in WoWS, I don't know what the actual ratio of experience earned from spotting is but I've had games of 150,000+ damage from spotting and yet it hardly seemed to impact my overall experience earned and credit income.

 

I don't know the exact figures either, but it seems insignificant, if anything at all. I do all the right things and I think I'm crucial to the victory, but still I often end up on the lower part of the scoreboard.

[rvfharrier]

9 minutes ago, Tubit101 said:

 

Seems like the game is in need of less focus on damage and more focus on playing objectives. So rewarding capping and spotting better would be a step in the right direction. Currently, DDs get zero rewards for capping a base if their team loses. Capping in a winning match isn't great either. And as everyone is already well aware: most people would rather camp and take potshots at the enemy instead of assisting their DDs.

 

Rewards for capping are very good, they used to be higher but they frankly used to be ridiculous. 4000+ Base XP games for DDs that did a lot of capping and DDs finishing pretty much every game at the top of the scoreboards in domination. Agree with DDs not getting rewarded adequately for spotting and smoking, but implemented incorrectly (this is WG we're talking about here) I'm worried we could go back to those days and force a re-nerf of DD XP gains.

[SavageRat]

12 minutes ago, WolfGewehr said:

 

This indeed sounds a good idea first and one can easily come into the conclusion you came. But then, as @Xevious_Red said, it can easily backshlash and turn into mindless yoloing. And stupid, mindless yoloing is something I definitely don't want to see more ingame.

 

 

 

Push the red button and go back to CBT.  Honestly, I would gladly go back to those times. Full strike Hakuryu was insane but it was still a fun, more dynamic meta. Okay, the closed doors also meant that one other factor was vastly different, and this then impacted the gameplay too.

It could result in yoloing, but those players would soon be broke especially when they start getting to tier 8.

 

20 games in 30 minutes but you've lost 500k credits in repairs will soon put a stop to it.

 

And I much rather be in a match where guys are banging out 50-60k in damage and dying in 5-10 minutes than the currently where they are lasting the whole match with only 30k damage.

[Tubit101]

2 minutes ago, rvfharrier said:

 

Rewards for capping are very good, they used to be higher but they frankly used to be ridiculous. 4000+ Base XP games for DDs that did a lot of capping and DDs finishing pretty much every game at the top of the scoreboards in domination. Agree with DDs not getting rewarded adequately for spotting and smoking, but implemented incorrectly (this is WG we're talking about here) I'm worried we could go back to those days and force a re-nerf of DD XP gains.

 

 

The reward for capping is as I understand it, zero. However, you will receive a multiplier to your total score if you win. This means that capping by itself is essentially worthless. In many scenarios, there is little opportunity to do much beyond holding an important position. Epicenter on Tears of the Desert is a typical example of this.

[Aotearas]

18 minutes ago, Negativvv said:

Yes true...

 

It's why I don't play BB much anymore as they are reliant on the smaller ships making it happen. If your 2 or 3 DDs are morons then you've basically lost. I prefer to be in the ships that can actually make something happen. 

 

This campy bullcr@p is more of an issue here than in WoT as at least in Tanks most vehicles are fairly fast and can rotate to a different cap fairly quickly but here if a team has committed badly then they're basically not going to recover.

 

Divisions.

 

Seriously, divisions!

 

You can't trust randoms to actually play competently, let alone coordinate. You'll be surprised how much a difference it makes to just have two buddies watching your back. 1 DD, 1 CA/CL and 1 BB in a division can fulfill all essential roles in one division and compensate and support another.

 

The only problem is that you can never go back to playing randoms alone, you'll be spoiled rotten!

[RUSSIANBlAS]

1 minute ago, Aotearas said:

 

Divisions.

 

Seriously, divisions!

 

You can't trust randoms to actually play competently, let alone coordinate. You'll be surprised how much a difference it makes to just have two buddies watching your back. 1 DD, 1 CA/CL and 1 BB in a division can fulfill all essential roles in one division and compensate and support another.

 

The only problem is that you can never go back to playing randoms alone, you'll be spoiled rotten!

 

I've played in Divs and it is OP yes. If you all agree to play different classes & work together. DD, BB and CV would be more OP possibly as no one would be a 1 shot from random RNG. I don't as much of it these days as I can't be done with waiting for people, I dip in and out the game or blast out a few then break. Totally erratic gaming