Graf Zeppelin is an insult to paying customers

[PseudoMi]

8 minutes ago, mtm78 said:

Is this an invite to throw the guys on the stream for the lions, or do they actually have answers? If the later I'm definitely going to watch the stream as I'm very interested in hearing them. If they don't have any actual answers it would be a waste of my time though   

 

You want answers ? They already got us answers. The yesterday stream @Gamescon with the two guys, and the today forum statement. It is official and it doesn't let room for interpretation. They will repeat again and again the same answer.

 

The critical threshold is already behind, now they cannot return anymore.

 

Just imagine now WG stating something else … like not their precedent official position …. just imagine.

[mtm78]

Nah, those answers don't stand up to the actual issues. If they don't reply to fara's message at all it just proofs this game is going to keep going downhill. I've spend a long time hoping, but if this is really an intentional 'finished' release in their eyes, I can not but have ZERO trust in them actually being able to restore balance with other things. 

[Ishiro32]

17 minutes ago, Kandly said:

 

I'm still here, but I have to leave now. Unfortunately, I'll be away until Monday. I hope everything will go well until then.  We still have one live stream left for Saturday 2 PM CEST - in case you wanna throw in some questions. Twitch here.

Sorry I can't help more for now! Take care guys and see ya on Monday.

Oh silly you. We both know that they will not anwser my question about AP drop UI. There is no good anwser for it after they officialy stated that it is finished and working as intended. 

Thank you for taking the heat, but please remember that for people above you I have little symapthy. Maybe I have some for EV1N, I mean he was so uncomfrtable talking about that ship... I am sure he knows what a mess it is.

Have a nice weekend. 

[mtm78]

Just now, Ishiro32 said:

Maybe I have some for EV1N

 

You can only have sympathy for a regional producer if you accept that it is not his call to determine release dates of premium ships. That being said, seeing him in the video ( and Tuccy as well ) was pretty clear that he didn't really wanted to be there when the subject came up. 

 

[PseudoMi]

4 minutes ago, mtm78 said:

Nah, those answers don't stand up to the actual issues. If they don't reply to fara's message at all it just proofs this game is going to keep going downhill.

 

Their official statement is that GZ is both finished and unfinished. (brilliant PR) They will repeat it for every technical question.

 

"For selling it, it's finished. For corrections/improvments, it's unfinished" and they can point at other premium ships who got changes in time.

 

Once again, the official statement : GZ is fine, the community should calm down and L2P, waiting for further changes.

[mtm78]

Just now, PseudoMi said:

Their official statement is that GZ is both finished and unfinished. (brilliant PR) They will repeat it for every technical question.

 

"For selling it, it's finished. For corrections/improvments, it's unfinished" and they can point at other premium ships who got changes in time.

 

Once again, the official statement : GZ is fine, the community should calm down and L2P, waiting for further changes.

 

So you're telling me I should uninstall this game because nothing is really going to change?

[PseudoMi]

They will change GZ for sure, they said it many times.

[mtm78]

That wasn't what I meant though and you know it 

 

With 'changing' I mean starting to LISTEN to community instead of feeding us constant ....... and hoping we keep thinking it's caviar. 

[Silberwolf]

They will change her, but until i get my money back or an apology. I will not touch this game again. I just feel scam'ed like i bought a early access ship,

[Drake847]

So i think someone in PR department  ect. has to look out for a new Job. Cause "this" is just a rushed release hopeing it will run through .What we have is a sometimes bugged game ( Ap double pen for single Shell dmg bug). Mechanics not working properly (at least they work with high priority at it) .And ships released like "they want it" anyway no matter what ST say or even community . Reminder  for WG if you want money keep the crowd that got the money happy.Hell we even got Air spot range for BBs not working dunno by the rest but my GK open at 11km . Should have been earlier . So i predict this game a dark future (in europe). Be glad SoT has not been released yet . But this will be a hard contender in 2018.

[Widar_Thule]

The GRAF ZEPPELIN also represents another disturbing trend... The GRAF ZEPPELIN AP bombs are supposed to counter slow moving battleships and they should not be able to hit fast moving agile targets according to several WG representatives statements. So GRAF ZEPPELIN AP bombs are intended to be useful against slow moving or stationary battleships but not against fast moving and turning cruisers and destroyers. WG representatives also said they took the GRAF ZEPPELIN torpedoes away because they were "too effective" against destroyers. So apparently GRAF ZEPPELIN should not be able to fight against destroyers, that is supposedly a reason for taking the GRAF ZEPPELIN torpedoes away.

 

IF the GRAF ZEPPELIN AP bombs would work, which they do not, then it is still a bad concept since it is a one-trick-pony weapon system. Which means they are not very good against anything else. In the case of GRAF ZEPPELIN the AP bombs are really bad to the point of useless against destroyers and even against cruisers. The deep dive/running torpedoes again are meant to target battleships with a deep draught and those deep running torpedoes are the ones that GRAF ZEPPELIN maybe will get in the future according to WG representatives statements.

 

But here is the thing... I do NOT want a ship that can fight ONLY one enemy ship class well, because in a match I need to be able to at least have a fighting chance against all ship classes because I can be pursued by any ship class in a match and in a random match I cannot count on anybody for "help" and neither do I want to or be FORCED to do so in a game. Every ship should have at least a decent all round armament capability against all ship classes because a player cannot determine which opponent ship class will pursue him in a match.

 

If I have a ship I want it to be able to decently fire on EVERY type of target with a chance to doing enough damage to make the all ship classes approach with caution. I can accept that a ship has a "speciality" which allows above average performance against ONE ship class specifically but it is totally unacceptable that in return that would mean that the ship would be ONLY good against one ship class specifically.

 

In other words, if GRAF ZEPPELIN is better against battleships than that is fine but it is NOT fine if that means that her armament is almost useless against anything other than a battleship. You cannot dictate what enemy focuses on you in a match. Sometimes you NEED to be able to fight off whatever is near you or chasing you down in an Aircraft Carrier even if that is a destroyer or cruiser.

 

No one-trick-pony ships please...

 

You do not have to be a genius to understand that all-round capable concept. Being all round capable is part of having fun in a match against four classes of ships. I hope that Wargame Developers will let that sink in because the direction they are taking now is headed for one-trick-pony solutions for their new WOWS ships.

 

[1MajorKoenig]

Wow. Just wow.

 

This is one of the most impressive [edited]-ups WG produced and they just leave for the weekend? What an excellent plan - I guess all is fine then?

These guys are simple unbelievable. I guess there is not even s good word to describe that.

 

@Sub_Octavian any word ? Any hot fix in the pipeline? Do you guys understand that this is a serious problem? 

 

@Ev1n no communication about how this is going to be fixed?

 

@Tuccy you didn't say much in the stream - can't blame you for that. Any other (maybe helpful) comment?

[WingedHussar_Adler]

46 minutes ago, Panzerblitz said:

Farazelleth's review pretty much proves that their argument about manual AP being for skilled players is invalid. The guy is one of the best CV players around and even he cannot do it....

i watched this...i really really was afraid he will die of a stroke how he was upset......ffs WG be a bigger man and admit fault......we will forgive you....if you say you messed it up and needs rework i will buy it in current state today and believe you will clear your mess....pls pls dont say it is as you wanted....

[mtm78]

Anti BB CV is EXACTLY what the game needs, sadly they implemented it wrongly right now.  What fara said applies, give her fast torpedo bombers so she ( GZ ) can scout with those and hit small targets and play around flooding damage, but keep her main offensive armaments as DB's and she would be a nice carrier ( even if not for competitive perhaps ).

 

Just now, Horin728 said:

Not disagreeing per se, but you have to have the ability to attack other classes as well... Imagine being in a light cruiser that has a "special gimmick" - its guns can only fire HE and their penetration is not enough to penetrate any part of a BB and most parts of cruisers, because it is "specialised" for killing DDs...

No... Just No.

 

Sorry was just editing. Ofc you're right and it does need something, but it would work pretty well even if with limited potential against other ships as long as it doesn't crap out in every department ( bombing - map control / fighters - scouting ). 

 

[Horin728]

1 minute ago, mtm78 said:

Anti BB CV is EXACTLY what the game needs, sadly they implemented it wrongly right now. 

 

Not disagreeing per se, but you have to have the ability to attack other classes as well... Imagine being in a light cruiser that has a "special gimmick" - its guns can only fire HE and their penetration is not enough to penetrate any part of a BB and most parts of cruisers, because it is "specialised" for killing DDs...

No... Just No.

[Admiral_noodle]

The whole point about cv gameplay is that it should be somewhat balanced. I like the idea of AP bombs being a threat to BBs but:

- manual drop should reward the skill of the CV player. 

- AP damage should be somewhat reliable (think RNCL type damage)

- A CV should also have access to at least one TB *or* have good fighters so it can do *something else* if there are no BBs to farm. 

 

*sigh*

 

it will get fixed. I know it will. But right now she is fun not found. 

[valrond]

19 minutes ago, Widar_Thule said:

The GRAF ZEPPELIN also represents another disturbing trend... The GRAF ZEPPELIN AP bombs are supposed to counter slow moving battleships and they should not be able to hit fast moving agile targets according to several WG representatives statements. So GRAF ZEPPELIN AP bombs are intended to be useful against slow moving or stationary battleships but not against fast moving and turning cruisers and destroyers. WG representatives also said they took the GRAF ZEPPELIN torpedoes away because they were "too effective" against destroyers. So apparently GRAF ZEPPELIN should not be able to fight against destroyers, that is supposedly a reason for taking the GRAF ZEPPELIN torpedoes away.

 

IF the GRAF ZEPPELIN AP bombs would work, which they do not, then it is still a bad concept since it is a one-trick-pony weapon system. Which means they are not very good against anything else. In the case of GRAF ZEPPELIN the AP bombs are really bad to the point of useless against destroyers and even against cruisers. The deep dive/running torpedoes again are meant to target battleships with a deep draught and those deep running torpedoes are the ones that GRAF ZEPPELIN maybe will get in the future according to WG representatives statements.

 

But here is the thing... I do NOT want a ship that can fight ONLY one enemy ship class well, because in a match I need to be able to at least have a fighting chance against all ship classes because I can be pursued by any ship class in a match and in a random match I cannot count on anybody for "help" and neither do I want to or be FORCED to do so in a game. Every ship should have at least a decent all round armament capability against all ship classes because a player cannot determine which opponent ship class will pursue him in a match.

 

If I have a ship I want it to be able to decently fire on EVERY type of target with a chance to doing enough damage to make the all ship classes approach with caution. I can accept that a ship has a "speciality" which allows above average performance against ONE ship class specifically but it is totally unacceptable that in return that would mean that the ship would be ONLY good against one ship class specifically.

 

In other words, if GRAF ZEPPELIN is better against battleships than that is fine but it is NOT fine if that means that her armament is almost useless against anything other than a battleship. You cannot dictate what enemy focuses on you in a match. Sometimes you NEED to be able to fight off whatever is near you or chasing you down in an Aircraft Carrier even if that is a destroyer or cruiser.

 

No one-trick-pony ships please...

 

You do not have to be a genius to understand that all-round capable concept. Being all round capable is part of having fun in a match against four classes of ships. I hope that Wargame Developers will let that sink in because the direction they are taking now is headed for one-trick-pony solutions for their new WOWS ships.

 

You have the secondaries to fend off against destroyers. 

[Reisen__]

Error 404 GZ balance not found

[Verdius]

15 minutes ago, Admiral_noodle said:

The whole point about cv gameplay is that it should be somewhat balanced. I like the idea of AP bombs being a threat to BBs but:

- manual drop should reward the skill of the CV player. 

- AP damage should be somewhat reliable (think RNCL type damage)

- A CV should also have access to at least one TB *or* have good fighters so it can do *something else* if there are no BBs to farm. 

 

*sigh*

 

it will get fixed. I know it will. But right now she is fun not found. 

 

That is the core of the issue: rushed to make a few bucks out of 'GC hype'. I sincerely hope that WG takes this seriously and does not make this attitude of 'release now, fix later' for new releases a standard practice. I think we all remember the German DDs launch.

 

In the long term this is detrimental to the game and consumer trust.

[ShuggieHamster]

think fara said it best (in between his totally awesome ranting) when he said "ask me how to balance carriers".

 

seriously WG ... ask advice from someone who could take anyone of your staff/devs in a cv and beat the living snot out of them. you show no love for the class, ask someone who does. 

[Parkerzilla]

1 hour ago, 15JG52Adler said:

i watched this...i really really was afraid he will die of a stroke how he was upset......ffs WG be a bigger man and admit fault......we will forgive you....if you say you messed it up and needs rework i will buy it in current state today and believe you will clear your mess....pls pls dont say it is as you wanted....

Yes, Farazelleth is one of the best CV players in the game on any server and a very good, measured, communicator (even when ranting, which I have never seen him do before) so I hope WG pays attention to the points he made.

[Ishiro32]

39 minutes ago, ShuggieHamster said:

think fara said it best (in between his totally awesome ranting) when he said "ask me how to balance carriers".

 

seriously WG ... ask advice from someone who could take anyone of your staff/devs in a cv and beat the living snot out of them. you show no love for the class, ask someone who does. 

 

I don't think lack of source for proper feedback was ever a problem for WG. Here is the list of CV players that were ST:

 

-Sharana  - author of this thread and someone I consider best CV player at the time

 

- Ishiro32 (back when I was playing)

- Papedipupi (briefly, but was)

- one more CV player I can't really recall his nick (Gomen gomen)

- Strangers123 (Currently active as ST coordinator)

- Reyte (Newest CV player in ST Team, but hardly someone you can dismiss)

 

WG just knows better, but practice show that they do not.

 

There is also one fact. Even best players make mistakes or misjudge stuff. We are not game designers and while we have best experience to understand game flow that doesn't mean our propositions are ultimate solution. In case of Fara for example, I think his ideas on how to balance USN are too rigid and stuck in "let's clone shokaku", I can not agree with them. His analysis is great and I like how he approach and dissect them, but  solutions are too focused on competetive mode. Considering his backgroud it is understandable, but it also makes his views slightly skewed.

Saying that at least Fara understand this class deeply... this isn't something I can say about WG devs with conviction.

[mtm78]

So you're saying that HAVE had, and still have, access to actually relevant feedback, but they don't do anything with it? Is that why there are so many old players which aren't really happy? 

[Juanx]

1 hour ago, valrond said:

You have the secondaries to fend off against destroyers. 

 

You forgot to add  at the end.

[philjd]

Well, refund ticket submitted, I can wait until the ship is in it's final configuration.