Graf Zeppelin - SOLUTION

[WarSurfer]

At the time of this posting, it has been only a few hours since Graf Zeppelin aircraft carrier is released on live server.

The forum and the comments section of its announcement page is full of negative comments, full of hatred and disappointment towards Wargaming and the product (Graf Zeppelin).

 

This product is broken and needs to be fixed.

 

If you have bought this product or if you play with CVs, please write your suggestions that can be implemented staying within the boundaries of Wargaming company policies.

 

IF YOU HAVE NEGATIVE OPINIONS PLEASE WRITE IT ELSEWHERE. There are many other threads that talk about Graf Zeppelin. Please keep your posts short, to the point and LIMITED TO YOUR SOLUTIONS.

 

My solutions:

1- A second hull option for a 2-3-0 setup

2- Shorter delay time for AP bombers

3- Extra upgrade slot with T9 upgrade choice

I believe all these, if implemented will fix the problem.

 

Best Regards,

 

WarSurfer

 

P.s: To Wargaming: I enjoy playing your game. I have 14 premium ships. I have made all kinds of different in-game purchases of your products worth 100s of Dollars. I also bought the highest priced package of Graf Zeppelin. I enjoy and support your company's passion for creating new content. After buying and playing with Graf Zeppelin, for the first time after a premium ship purchase, I felt that it needed fixing. I read the forum but I don't post so I sincerely hope this will be helpful and you will take note of these suggestions. I firmly believe you will fix this product as soon as possible and earn praise, support and respect from your players.

[Jethro_Grey]

+1

 

Your suggestion 1 and 3 are the only ones that could make the GZ competitive not only vs same tier CVs, but also viable against TX MM, which it will face a lot.

I'd only like to add to make the fighters a tiny bit more survivable and/ or increase their damage output.  

 

[Commander_Cornflakes]

2-0-4 Setup with stronger bombers (more hp) (definitely HE and maybe AP as second option),

One more fighter per squad

[El2aZeR]

Honestly I'd revamp her completely and maybe bump her down a tier. Refund everyone who bought this abomination.

She's pretty much unworkable right now from what I've seen. Fighters will remain weaksauce unless you give them ridiculous squad numbers. Only having DBs is utterly worthless, too. Heck, she was sub-par when she had 3x TBs. Trashing her concept completely and starting anew is the only viable path I see.

[Seeigel]

A plus/point for her: she has the fastest fighters (you can choose where to fight)

 

Only played 1 game, used mainly auto-drop cause I didnt know the flight time yet, was quite good. She feels like a CV with a very high skill ceiling. I dont want to know what a skilled player can do with those AP bombs. Time will tell me how I do with her.

 

To buff her, you could give her a fighter setup (maybe with 1 TB and 1 DB?) or/and reduce the flight time of the AP bombs a little bit.

 

Otherwise I want to wait with my opinion, its to early to say.

 

edit:

or to give her a little gimmick and something real special:

keep those fighters, but split the divebomber (modules) to two, with 2 squadrons with 3 planes each (maybe buff their HP a little bit)

 

To explain it a little bit: you have 2 different dive bomber modules to chose. You could equip now:

2*3 planes with HE bombs and 2*3 with AP, 4*3 with HE or 4*3 with AP

(with the level 4 skill you get 16 bombers, 1 more than now)

 

With that kind of setup you could choose how you want to play and dont limit you to one bomb type.

[WingedHussar_Adler]

They will not change it. Just don't buy it. 

[MoebeIwagen]

The Ship and two dive bomber setups aren't bad at all(always with one eye on the historical usage of air to sea torps of Luftwaffe and Marine bombers). But it seems the AP dive bombers are broken.
At the first glance the drop pattern of the dive bombers setup with AP bombs look pretty much the same decent like the Enterprise's dive bombers.
But then i had to determined that there is a delay between the dive and the hits. So the most ships i tried to bomb went out of the auto drop zone and the bombers hit nothing. No matter if an cruiser or battleship not even an aircraft carrier by itself were adequate hittable with that delay.

Only one out of over 50 drops hitted with more than one or two bombs, most of them hit nothing. And strangely, the dive bombers were on their way back to my carrier when the hit count comes in. Like three or four seconds later then their drop was. Not to say that i was unable to land any hit with alternative(manual) drop. Even "landed"(ships which stucked at islands) weren't hittable with that delay.

On the other hand the HE dive bomber setup, which i also tried out, works fine. You order the drop, the bombers dive, drop and hit just as usual, including the combat text about the damage amout of the hits came instandly.

I guess there is something wrong with the AP dive bomber setup. Seems they don't work as intended.

[WarSurfer]

Thank you for your replies. Especially Jethro_Grey, Commander_Cornflakes, El2aZeR and Seeigel.

 

Please continue to contribute with POSITIVE, CONSTRUCTIVE and PRODUCTIVE replies.

 

There is another wonderful topic started about this matter by Ishiro32, discussing the Graf Zeppelin issue in a wider scale. The link is here:

Best Regards,

 

WarSurfer

[Spellfire40]

Well in the Gamecom Vid they talked about things like giving it her old config but with deepwater Torps and that she will get another setup wich still leads to the point she is a unfinished product and you dont need a CV that can only hurt still standing german BBs... Giving her Enterprises DB Drop delay would instant kill any german BB,,,,,,,Lack of reserves subpar fighters bad ap mechanik the only point were she shines is her HE bombs that can really screw up DDs....

She needs to be fully overhauled and its not our Job to tell them what to do because its hard to balance on feelings alone. They have the data but the idia of a CV that is good agist a backward driving BB that heads south on a sunday IS not the way to go! it need to be able to deal with any situation and with that i dont mean one shoting a Des Moins under def AA but Hurting the Targets its desighned agist while being able to defend itself and its team resonable vs another balanced or strike setup. CVs are NOT just one of 10 ships in a Team they allways face another CV on top of AA defence..... GZ in her curent state cannot deal with that at all...........

[valrond]

On 23/8/2017 at 8:13 PM, El2aZeR said:

Honestly I'd revamp her completely and maybe bump her down a tier. Refund everyone who bought this abomination.

She's pretty much unworkable right now from what I've seen. Fighters will remain weaksauce unless you give them ridiculous squad numbers. Only having DBs is utterly worthless, too. Heck, she was sub-par when she had 3x TBs. Trashing her concept completely and starting anew is the only viable path I see.

Agreed. I played one in my 1-1-1 Lexington and I killed all their fighters and bombers in a couple of strafes. Not much he could do. And that's with 1 squadron. Of course, My lone Squadron of 7 was stronger than his 4+4 squads of bf109.

[Temeteus82]

25 minutes ago, valrond said:

Agreed. I played one in my 1-1-1 Lexington and I killed all their fighters and bombers in a couple of strafes. Not much he could do. And that's with 1 squadron. Of course, My lone Squadron of 7 was stronger than his 4+4 squads of bf109.

I'm going to take my 2-0-2 lex out for a spin ;)

[valrond]

10 minutes ago, Temeteus82 said:

I'm going to take my 2-0-2 lex out for a spin ;)

Not bad, even the 1-1-1 is better than that POS the WG is selling for 50 euros.

The poor guys that bought it thinking it was good.

 

As it is, the easiest fix is putting it on tier 7. Will stick suck, but less.

It needs a complete rework.

1 more fighter per squad

Higher fighter dps

AP bombs with usable delay

Add one torpedo squadron of 5 planes

That would make it usable. 

2-1-3, with tier 7.5 planes and 72 total planes. It could work. Shokaku and Enterprise would still be better, but it could be usable in randoms.

 

[Sams_Baneblade]

6 hours ago, valrond said:

As it is, the easiest fix is putting it on tier 7. Will stick suck, but less.

It needs a complete rework.

 

I agree with this.
In my opinion:

-Slap it at Tier 7 with Tier 7 planes (those were historically obsolete compared to what other Tier 8 carriers can launch)
-Improve detectability
-Remove the AP bombs and make the HE workable
-Because WG doesn't want to introduce a premium CV without silly gimmick, they could make the ship unique instead of its plane:
     PROPOSAL: Enable the possibility to launch planes while being set on fire with a minimal timer malus and buff the turning circle. With the secondaries, it could allow to the GF to come closer of the frontline, thus reducing the flight time to the objective. If needed, also reduce the damages inflicted by AA furing the dive manoeuver. Et voilà, you get the first firespammer-frontline CV.
-The said gimmick could open the door to a more regular  flight deck of 2-1-2

[Ferry_25]

the best solution I can bring in is free of cost at the same time...

[Lord_WC]

My proposal is to play your GZ and WG will decide what kind of buffs they will make, if at all.

Don't want to spoil your fun, but it sits currently above the lexi, so it can be considered okay.

[fumtu]

On 8/23/2017 at 5:49 PM, WarSurfer said:

My solutions:

1- A second hull option for a 2-3-0 setup

 

Wasn't three torps squadrons shows to be too powerful? But you think this is only other configuration that could work, no for example 3/2/0 or 2/1/2 or any other configuration that could be made more balanced or maybe better planes. And what would be point to have a second hull option if the one of them is a crap. Yes, ship needs to be fixed but solution isn't to go to opposite direction and make it OP. And three torp squadron is too much.

[Azrael_Ashemdion]

My solution:

 

Refund ticket issued.

 

  Az

[Hidoc]

I do not understand all this rage.

Before buying as a consumer, you must first know if you like the product in its current state. If not, it's very simple, do not buy it and move along.

[Jethro_Grey]

9 minutes ago, Hidoc said:

I do not understand all this rage.

Before buying as a consumer, you must first know if you like the product in its current state. If not, it's very simple, do not buy it and move along.

 

Oh really? Got more smart a$$ ideas?

 

Pls point me to reviews of this ship that were released at the time it came on sale and which players could get an idea on whats the ship like.

 

Waiting....

 

 

You said it yourself, you do not understand, maybe because you are missing the point?

[Hidoc]

Just now, Jethro_Grey said:

 

Oh really? Got more smart [edited]ideas?

 

Pls point me to reviews of this ship that were released at the time it came on sale and which players could get an idea on whats the ship like.

 

Waiting....

 

Yes, just one.

 

If you do not know how the product is, do not buy it. Do not buy things with your "eyes closed", simple 

[Jethro_Grey]

1 minute ago, Hidoc said:

 

Yes, just one.

 

If you do not know how the product is, do not buy it. Do not buy things with your "eyes closed", simple 

 

...whatever m8, whatever.

[beercrazy]

remove from sale refund all them that bought it and send it back to testing

rework it completely in testing then send back to shop for sale and offering the people who already bought it the option of a one time special to repurchase for 50% discount

 

 

[Blooddancer]

They should fix the AP Bomb mechanic and move it to Tier VII

[G01ngToxicCommand0]

This ship is gonna require a 'final solution' before it worthwhile to spend money on - hell even His Majesty's crap Nelson can swat the GZ's airplanes from the air like they were flies

[SBS]

WG will not change the ships, as we have clearly seen before, premiums are never changed, even when they deperately need it.

 

That is why OP premiums stay OP and UP premiums stay useless.

 

But to be honest. What I think needs to be done to fix the GZ or CV in general, is stop making HP difference of aircraft at the same tier so drastic, it just means that some carriers end up having a very hard time.

After all, if you end up as low tier, doesn't matter if you have 3 torpedo squadrons, if the HP is soo low that they die to tier 10 AA before they reach the target, they might as well not exist.

 

With that set, I think they need to at the very least buff the bombs majorly on the GZ. I do not think 3 squadrons of torpedo bombers will fix it, as that will just make the strike too godly, and noone will be able to dodge that.

And no, weak fighters does not make up for it.