Cruisers dead

[bouncer8409]

Since my first game on WOWS i have been mainly a cruiser player, had some ups and downs but on the whole i have done pretty good in them, i have all the tier X cruisers and love playing them but i now believe that cruisers as a class are dead. Way too many stealth buffs to BB's have seen Cruisers fall way behind in the game. Cruisers are usually targeted first by all BB in the game so unless hidden behind an island or in smoke you are gonna be deleted first. Make even a small mistake and get caught and you will be deleted. BB can now do all cruisers used to excell at but with huge HP pool and HUGE guns, excellent AA, Hydro, Radar, HE spam with new British BB. I can no longer see any point to playing a cruiser when BB do the job just as well but with far better survivability. Over the last few days in every single game i have been deleted by long range BB fire. I am fully aware that i need to keep an eye on mini map, i know all about positioning and use patience and cover for protection but still, every game, deleted by a BB usually from long range by a BB in stealth or as usual end up trying to hold one side of map alaone against 3-4 BB and get overwhelmed,,,,,great !!!!

The new nerfs to IFHE, smoke and radar changes WILL further nerf cruisers and strenghen BB so i think its time to join the BBaby horde and sit at the back sniping.

Any one else feeling the same or have any comments ?

[RAHJAILARI]

Yups, this same thing is the talk of the day indeed in soooo many threads already. I agree though that playing a cruiser nowadays seems to be doomed to failure for an average player, of course, those at Unicum level might still do OK and since most WG test players are there it may be the reason why this is not seen, as an issue by WG. Cruiser is no ship to play for a mere mortal, especially at high tier.

[bouncer8409]

Thats just about it, i rate myself as totally average so i guess its time for me to move on,,,,oh well it was fun while it lasted. At least i have the Missouri and Montana so not starting from scratch with BB.

[Egoleter]

Just now, RAHJAILARI said:

Yups, this same thing is the talk of the day indeed in soooo many threads already. I agree though that playing a cruiser nowadays seems to be doomed to failure for an average player, of course, those at Unicum level might still do OK and since most WG test players are there it may be the reason why this is not seen, as an issue by WG. Cruiser is no ship to play for a mere mortal, especially at high tier.

 

Testers are recruited from all skill levels. Skill is not a requirement. Not every tester is good in every ship either. For sure we are not all at Univum level. I wish I were this good but I'm not. Tester feedback is also not the only, or even the one with the most influence, source of information WG uses to balance things. We are just the most visible.

 

So please do not put all the blame on us if you see balancing problems. We are just a small cog in the machine.

 

And I don't see a problem with those changes for all cruisers. In fact most are completly unaffected. If you only play those who depend on those things then you are looking at the issue with a very limited view.

[RAHJAILARI]

Ahhaah, that is good to know. Thanks for the correction then.

 

And nopes, i do not play only those ships affected - In fact I do not play them at all to be honest. I play DD's mostly in fact, which are not affected here. But I have been trying cruiser play occasionally and their overall survivability is a major problem at any tier.

[bouncer8409]

Cruiser survivability IS an isue at all tiers and WG dont seem to be interested in addressing the issue. Only seem to me to be interested in making BB as powerful as possible. 

[P2Win]

2 minutes ago, bouncer8409 said:

Cruiser survivability IS an isue at all tiers and WG dont seem to be interested in addressing the issue. Only seem to me to be interested in making BB as powerful as possible. 

 

Some of the tankiest cruisers are in T10..Moskva..Hindi...Zao. Those ships are fine where they belong.

[RAHJAILARI]

Funny thing is, I tend to survive battles to the end better in my DD, than any cruiser, while still doing some damage. This problem is perhaps best illustrated in tier 9 or 10 games, where most of the time i end up in games with 5BB/CV, 5DD and 2 very unfortunate cruisers, who nearly always die early...But then, maybe that's only me. AND as mentioned before, I mostly play DD in those games so not just another Cruiser player just whining because the game went badly, just an observation I have made.

 

Besides, I would very much like to play cruisers some more (I have dabbled in them occasionally with varying success) but as long as the current situation persists, it is quite discouraging isn't it?

[Ferry_25]

I wouldn't go as far as to claim cruisers are obsolete as OP seems. But I do see they are in very big trouble. Especially the T8 cruisers. 9 out of 10 matches I seem to be finding myself in a X match. Right now I'm @ Charles Martel. On par in a match it performs well. Uptiered I feel like a real burden to my team. Other than having to stay back and second line pewpewing I don't see that much of a role playing it.

However getting oneshot in a cruiser is very rare for me. In those occasions I was derping up completely. My role to survive is the situation awareness sign: when it switching on this means incoming from all sides. I'll start to smash my WASD like a lunatic. Oh and ONLY trust the "detected" sign when it's turned on. Just assume you're still detected at least 1 minute after it has switched off again. Don't make the mistake of thinking after 20 seconds "oh, now I'm safe. I can relax somewhat." No you can't: that's the moment those BB salvo's will somehow miraculously find you and relieve you of 90% of your HP. Of course: cover is your friend. But to be sure assume BB shells don't care for mountains. So don't rely on cover entirely. RNG can randomly switch on your Citadel magnet so the shells can angle back to you. I know it's sounding ridiculous but I've seen too much not to assume that (can never be wrong if I do). Maybe I'm the only one experiencing citadel hits when I see a shell hit my flagpole, hear only splashes around my ship and 2 seconds later while thinking "Ah, I got away with it" I'll hear that thrilling drumsound... Like saying: "oh I forgot: you got a double citadel." Which brings me to my last tip of survival: your citadel area is the most easy part of the whole game to remember: it ends at your detection range on the minimap...

[Jethro_Grey]

1 hour ago, bouncer8409 said:

Since my first game on WOWS i have been mainly a cruiser player, had some ups and downs but on the whole i have done pretty good in them, i have all the tier X cruisers and love playing them but i now believe that cruisers as a class are dead. Way too many stealth buffs to BB's have seen Cruisers fall way behind in the game. Cruisers are usually targeted first by all BB in the game so unless hidden behind an island or in smoke you are gonna be deleted first. Make even a small mistake and get caught and you will be deleted. BB can now do all cruisers used to excell at but with huge HP pool and HUGE guns, excellent AA, Hydro, Radar, HE spam with new British BB. I can no longer see any point to playing a cruiser when BB do the job just as well but with far better survivability. Over the last few days in every single game i have been deleted by long range BB fire. I am fully aware that i need to keep an eye on mini map, i know all about positioning and use patience and cover for protection but still, every game, deleted by a BB usually from long range by a BB in stealth or as usual end up trying to hold one side of map alaone against 3-4 BB and get overwhelmed,,,,,great !!!!

The new nerfs to IFHE, smoke and radar changes WILL further nerf cruisers and strenghen BB so i think its time to join the BBaby horde and sit at the back sniping.

Any one else feeling the same or have any comments ?

16

 

Odd, i don't have these issues.

 

If you are fully aware of minimap, positioning and such, why oh why would you attempt to hold a flank alone vs. 3 BBs?

Disengage and kite them would be a valid choice and one where you can easily survive while peppering them with HE.

If you stay there, it's your own fault.

[walter3kurtz]

To be honest, it's not hard to do well in cruisers in terms of getting damage. High ROF with decent damage output means you get consistent numbers. Especially when you can farm some BBabies.

 

However it's really hard to carry games in a cruiser because you are forced to play so passive. You just can't tank enough damage but need to follow the flow of battle and put as many obstacles between you and the enemy as possible. This is my main issue with cruisers, it is so boring compared to a good DD game where you 100% decide who and where to engage.

[Tekacko]

1 hour ago, P2Win said:

 

Some of the tankiest cruisers are in T10..Moskva..Hindi...Zao. Those ships are fine where they belong.

 

T10 seem more or less fine.

 

Stuff like Mogami, Ibuki, NO on the other hand... Cannon fodder. Especially in this retarded MM where they usually see 4-5 TX BBs pretty much all the time.

 

After suffering through the 203 Mogami grind (which is pretty much an uptiered Myoko) I have sworn not to grind through another T8 cruiser every again. Not in this MM and balance state.

[ClappingLollies]

2 hours ago, bouncer8409 said:

Thats just about it, i rate myself as totally average so i guess its time for me to move on,,,,oh well it was fun while it lasted. At least i have the Missouri and Montana so not starting from scratch with BB.

 

The amount of cruisers i have deleted with the Montana these last few days is nasty. When RNG agrees with you, it's so nasty and unfair against cruisers. Stealth up wait for a cruiser to make a turn. So dirty and so easy.

[Bersigil]

4 minutes ago, MortenTardo said:

 

The amount of cruisers i have deleted with the Montana these last few days is nasty. When RNG agrees with you, it's so nasty and unfair against cruisers. Stealth up wait for a cruiser to make a turn. So dirty and so easy.

And I'm so happy that the British bb are made to do even more of the same with even better concealment, great Sigma and short fuses on AP...

[RAHJAILARI]

Guess it be best to stick with my Shima for now then...

 

But as far as overall game mechanics go, I do think it makes sense that Cruisers as a class, should have better stealth than either CV's or BB's, of course there could be exceptions, but only in rare cases and with a significant compensating strength or weakness to balance it out.

[ClappingLollies]

2 minutes ago, Bersigil said:

And I'm so happy that the British bb are made to do even more of the same with even better concealment, great Sigma and short fuses on AP...

Yep. For some reason WG is making the easiest class even easier to play. Bad players will now punish cruisers even harder, but good players will just straight up crap on cruisers. RIP

[Bersigil]

4 minutes ago, MortenTardo said:

Yep. For some reason WG is making the easiest class even easier to play. Bad players will now punish cruisers even harder, but good players will just straight up crap on cruisers. RIP

 

If they would at least compensate for those amazing strenght. Bow armor so thin it can be overmatched by other BBs and citadels that can and will be hit if they Show broadside.
Then they could be called Battlecruisers and have BB-like guns (just a bit better than the average BB because of Sigma and short ap fuses + their amazing HE), Cruiser like stealth and armor (both on par or even better than crusiers) but less Speed, maneuverability and not all of the tools that cruisers have.

Right now they have the best of both worlds... and thats cant be balanced

 

 

[Oely001]

With launch of RN BB line, it is time to play DD only and torp/burn to death as many of them as possible.

[satoca1]

I agree with the first comment completely. Might as well start calling it World of Battleships the way it's going. Now that we are also facing the RN bbs it is even worse. You wait until there will be as many Conquerors as there are Yamatos or Kurfurst's now. The Nelson (tier 7) is more difficult to play against than an Izumo (tier 9). Front facing stationary battleship with same tanking capabilities, better heal and better ROF! No chance being a cruiser particularly when you are facing multiple bbs and have very little hoping of angling because you are either exposing your broadside to another bb or simply because in many situations they don't even need to broadside you. I play cruisers and dds and the only viable cruisers are T10, just and if you make no mistakes you might survive to the end, or some (not all) dds. I might just as well stick to my Fletcher and torp from distance.

I have some suggestions for WOWS, if anyone bothers listening:

 

1. History has shown battleships to be slow cumbersome boats. Their ROF and manouverability in the game are not realistic and OP. Double time on ROF and double the stopping time for a ship to get to stop and reverse or move forward. It is totally unreal how such huge ships can avoid torps from a standing start.

2. Battleships used to be called Capital Ships for a reason - they were the  most valuable ships as they were the most expensive to build and run. Double the cost of running a battleship and more importantly limit the number of battleships per game to 2, like cvs. It does not make sense that battleships outnumber cruisers and dds. It just never happened in history as countries built a lot of inexpensive ships and very very few of the big battleships.

3. If you really want to stick to the current game play and allow bbs to run riot, then make the cruiser and dd play more rewarding. This can be done if the amount of XP earned by cruiser and dds is doubled up. Currently I could be in a tier 8 cruiser facing a tier 10 bb, with the battleship carrying all the gun/armour advantages and to top it all they get more damage and XP by doing less work (tank and fire as your dispersion will annihilate the cruiser any which way the bb shoots). Cruiser and DD play is more risky and it should be rewarded better otherwise it stands to reason that everyone will go for the biggest meanest safest boat - common denominator - ie everyone in battleships.

4. Limit tiers. Stop the three tier difference games. As much as people moan about gameplay in Ranked, the best part it is that it is only one tier. Last season (7) Ranked was also dominated by bbs but at least there was not a single boat overwhelming the game.  

5. Stop sending stupid questionnaires or asking how "satisfied" I was at the end particular games. 

[VC381]

4 hours ago, bouncer8409 said:

Any one else feeling the same or have any comments ?

 

In short, no, I don't feel the same and I'm really struggling to understand why you do. I can completely understand inexperienced or plain bad players whining about cruisers, because they are hard to play. But no offense, I don't see how someone with your level of skill and experience in cruisers can come up with exaggerated absolutist crap like "cruisers are dead".

 

Cruisers are my main class as well and at no point in any of the ships I play regularly do I feel weak or that the game somehow persecutes the class. As I said, I can accept cruisers are harder to play, I jump in a BB when I just want to chill too. But I still find cruisers to be the most fun and rewarding class, and I feel that if I play my cruiser well I have the same ability to impact the game as any other ship.

 

Sorry, I don't mean to pick on you specifically. You started this thread but it's not just you. There are super unicum cruiser mains who still spout the same arguments and it just baffles me.

[G01ngToxicCommand0]

1 hour ago, Oely001 said:

With launch of RN BB line, it is time to play DD only and torp/burn to death as many of them as possible.

But the RN BB line speciality is to kill DDs and cruisers so good luck.

[Oely001]

17 minutes ago, atomskytten said:

But the RN BB line speciality is to kill DDs and cruisers so good luck.

 

This is Wargaming speech. Wargaming also says that German cruisers all have good AP...

[RAHJAILARI]

Yorck too?

[valrond]

5 hours ago, satoca1 said:

1. History has shown battleships to be slow cumbersome boats. Their ROF and manouverability in the game are not realistic and OP. Double time on ROF and double the stopping time for a ship to get to stop and reverse or move forward. It is totally unreal how such huge ships can avoid torps from a standing start.

 

Sorry, but that's not true. First, ALL ships have their manouverability buffed, by quite a big margin. Try a destroyer in War Thunder, it's even sluggish than a battleship in WOWS.

And on the RoF, It is, for battleships and for the most part, quite realistic:

Examples: Iowa, Real life ROF, 2 rounds per minute (1 per 30 seconds, sound familiar)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/16"/50_caliber_Mark_7_gun

Yamato. 1.5-2 rounds per minute

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/16"/50_caliber_Mark_7_gun

Bismack: 2.5 rounds per minute

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/38_cm_SK_C/34_naval_gun

 

However, look at the real ROF of the Aoba class cruiser:

Rate of fire varied from four or five rounds per minute firing at low angles diminishing to two or three rounds per minute firing at maximum elevation

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/20_cm/50_3rd_Year_Type_naval_gun

In game, it is 6 rounds per minute, all the time.

 

In general, reload time of the guns (not the torps, though), are quite realistic in WOWS.

[mtm78]

5 hours ago, VC381 said:

As I said, I can accept cruisers are harder to play, I jump in a BB when I just want to chill too.

 

But why do they need to be? I don't mind having skill requirements for classes, I like being challenged. But it's unfair that some one cell amoeba in a battleship can get results which are impossible for said amoeba in any other class.