Make Spotting Aircraft great again (or for the very first time would be fine too)

[RAHJAILARI]

Hookeys, began playing (or trying to) BB's after a loong pause (1 year or more) and of course immediately noticed that the much vaunted Spotting Aircraft were just as useless as they have always been Why even bother putting them there?

 

This matter is even more annoying, since I have recently received 4 of the awesome "Spotting Aircraft Modifications" in sk. super containers (admittedly i fail to notice, what is so super about them), all of which are pretty much useless as well and the exchange of mounting them instead of the main armaments mod, for example, just is not worth it. My points, which everyone probably knows already:

 

1. The range increase they offer, is pretty much useless, unless the target is fully stationary and does not move, as the lead, you have to take for such long ranges means that you are likely to miss (since the target would have to travel in straight line for ages, which is not very likely. Also the atrocious dispersion at long ranges likely guarantees that none of your shots will hit.
2. If you hit anything with AP, it will likely bounce from the hilariously "thick" deck armor of any ship it might hit so HE is the only choice of ammo, which in turn causes minimal damage thus removing the incentive to even bother (why break concealment for a likely failure anyway).

 

So a proposal, what IF we could make those aircraft useful again in a few easy steps?:

1. Make it so, that while the spotting aircraft is airborne, ship's dispersion ellipse will be a little tighter, say by 2% or something at any range. Thus temporarily improving the BB's chance to hit something. This would of course only work as long as the aircraft is airborne.
2. Spotting aircraft could actually "spot" (I know Woah!) and Increase the effective detection / spotting range of the BB for a short while, for example so that they would temporarily be able to detect an approaching DD, which has a concealment of 6km from 6,6km away (so +10% buff). This would also work on other ships, while the aircraft is flying.

 

PS. I normally play DD, so I fully know this would increase the challenge, but then again a plucky and attentive DD player could still just observe that AHA! There are spotting aircraft about, wait for a while and approach again after they are gone and in cooldown, then torp the fiendish BB or then just torp it from a bit further away.

 

Just thinking, I have so many of the dratted SUPER spotting aircraft mods and absolutely no use for them or even for the regular kind... Oh yeah and before anyone says so, I know they could help in spotting incoming torps a little earlier but that just ain't enough.

 

[Armorin]

I would prefer it if spotting aircraft actually spotted. Don't know why they should be able to pump up the guns whilst in flight.

[RAHJAILARI]

Weel, just though that it might be nice touch, since in addition to scouting their role sometimes actually included acting as airborne fire-control posts (and besides the BB's which only have them available usually have atrocious dispersion anyway, so for a few minutes per game, one could shine - Hehe!). Especially for long ranges so you could at the least attempt to hit something there. Not a compulsory buff though, i would be happy with any improvement, which would make them practically useful.

[Captain_Singleton]

each ship has it's own spotting distance by air, so why increase DD spotting by 10% when the aircraft will just spot them anyway?

[RAHJAILARI]

As mentioned before... Not DD alone, all those within range, of course... They ARE called "Spotting Aircraft" for some strange reason, so might as well earn their keep, so to say.

[Captain_Singleton]

11 minutes ago, RAHJAILARI said:

As mentioned before... Not DD alone, all those within range, of course... They ARE called "Spotting Aircraft" for some strange reason, so might as well earn their keep, so to say.

but they do that anyway...

[RAHJAILARI]

Ahh, but therein lies the problem, the spotting aircraft cannot be made to track an already spotted target so it will soon lose it again and so become useless yet once more. So either it should be possible to assign it to actually tail a target (ctrl L-click perhaps) until shot down, lose it in smoke or due to cooldown or to make it so it generally increases overall ranges. Either would be fine by me but actually this would also create problems for DD players especially, so that is why I came up with the plan to add the dispersion improvement. just as a general increase in practical usefulness instead.

[gekkehenkie50]

33 minutes ago, RAHJAILARI said:

-Snip-

 

Im a little double on this idea:

• Spotting aircraft atm are kinda meh, I agree on that. They help with sniping a max range carrier who is stationary... I guess... They really do help when blind firing into smoke, but it seems not alot of players know this (by the reactions of the until recently AP spamming RN CL....)
• The problem is that this would, yet again, be a direct buff to BBs. Cruisers? Not really, how often do you see a cruiser with a spotter aircraft?

In general, I still think WG should bring out BBVs and CAVs. Cruiser/Battleship X Carrier hybrids that can perform both roles, but neither as well as a true Carrier/Battleship/Cruiser. Then you could look at rebalancing all ship mounted aircraft, and CVs. Which would make AA cruisers viable again, which would lower the BB overpop--- Ive gone too far havent I?

 

But yeah, I agree that spotter aircraft are a bit UP. Then again, do we really need more buffs to BBs?

[RAHJAILARI]

You are correct there, in fact... Originally I did not want to post this, since I too think that generally BB's are quite OP at the moment (and also because I still like to play DD myself). But it had to be said. It would be good, if there was SOME way to make Spotting Aircraft more useful, since mid tier BB's often only have access to those and not the more useful Catapult Fighter. Could also well be something else than I have proposed here too, but just thinking about what their role actually should be, so that's why these ideas.

 

OR (and this just came to me), perhaps it could simply be made possible to send them to spot a certain area of the map, which player could choose, just kinda like when carriers send planes to a certain location (maybe just by clicking the minimap while clicking on S-key or something)? That would be useful, but not necessarily OP.

[ShinGetsu]

I'm actually using the spotting aircraft on Montana.

Not for sniping long range of course, but it's actually pretty effective when it comes to accurately snipe a ship firing from smoke, and even better when it comes to island huggers. Also sometimes it gives a better vision of the trajectory of an angled ship. With Montana accurate rifles it allows for very, very mean salvoes.

And I don't really need the fighters given my base AA rating.

 

But overall this consumable is quite weak. It's very situational and gives just too few advantages. Also the cooldown is just too damn long.

[RAHJAILARI]

Good point(s) all of them... Come to wonder if anyone has ever used a single Premium Spotting Aircraft consumable? Hehe! Would heff to be Mad to do so, I expect.

[ShinGetsu]

I do use it. I'm most of the time running all premium consumable on all my ships.

I don't have any issues with credits, and if that allows me to use it more than once in the game, it's worth. It's not like I'm playing Montana to make money with it anyway. I have other ships for that.

[gekkehenkie50]

2 minutes ago, ShinGetsu said:

I do use it. I'm most of the time running all premium consumable on all my ships.

I don't have any issues with credits, and if that allows me to use it more than once in the game, it's worth. It's not like I'm playing Montana to make money with it anyway. I have other ships for that.

Same here, although if you play better than most BBs, which isnt that hard, you usually make credits anyway, even at tier IX (cant say for tier X, dont have my Monti yet)

[ShinGetsu]

Tier X are quite hard to make money with if you're not using premium camo or premium account, or running a whole load of flags.

I got 100 gamescom camo in a Supercontainer and that's what I'm using on Monty at. +50% credits bonus on it. Quite effective I'd say.

Maybe I'll buy prem camo for Monty, but only after I see how the RN BBs fares in comparison.

[RAHJAILARI]

Yeah have heard Montana is quite accurate (not that far yet myself), so for that it makes sense. I was mostly thinking of the mid-tier BB's, which only have the spotting Aircraft available and no chance to change it to a fighter, for example and which also have quite horrible accuracy, so no chance to hit anything at long range anyways.

 

So in their case even a slight temporary buff to accuracy would make this a useful asset. Or maybe, it would only buff accuracy, when it is the only type of plane available or in certain tiers or something... Dunnoh how that would work tho... Hmmh..

[ShinGetsu]

4 minutes ago, RAHJAILARI said:

Yeah have heard Montana is quite accurate (not that far yet myself), so for that it makes sense. I was mostly thinking of the mid-tier BB's, which only have the spotting Aircraft available and no chance to change it to a fighter, for example and which also have quite horrible accuracy, so no chance to hit anything at long range anyways.

Overall the fighter is better for most ships. For the BBs that only have the spotting aircraft available it's indeed not very useful. I did some good salvoes at range with Kongo but that's about it.

I do think WG should at least reduces the cooldown between uses of spotting aircraft, and maybe make it so that, instead of flying in circle around your ship, it only flies in the direction you're pointing your bow main gun at. This way it could spot incoming torpedoes from where you're looking at, and you could somehow direct it a bit.

[RAHJAILARI]

6 minutes ago, ShinGetsu said:

... and maybe make it so that, instead of flying in circle around your ship, it only flies in the direction you're pointing your bow main gun at. This way it could spot incoming torpedoes from where you're looking at, and you could somehow direct it a bit.

Ooh yees... That is close to one of the things I was thinking of before... Press "S"-key and point at the minimap,  spotting aircraft flies there for a time or it could just follow the guns. That could work too.

[Flid_Merchant]

Give them a longer view range and a buff to your ship's dispersion.

[ShinGetsu]

13 minutes ago, Flid_Merchant said:

Give them a longer view range and a buff to your ship's dispersion.

No.

No need to encourage BB to snipe.

[Flid_Merchant]

I meant as in not increase to main battery, but so they can spot other ships closer to you. For torps, spotting ambushing ships, etc. AFAIC they don't need to boost range at all. Eg I will launch one if I know a DD is nearby to try to spot him, or check whats around an island.

[Exocet6951]

25 minutes ago, Flid_Merchant said:

I meant as in not increase to main battery, but so they can spot other ships closer to you. For torps, spotting ambushing ships, etc. AFAIC they don't need to boost range at all. Eg I will launch one if I know a DD is nearby to try to spot him, or check whats around an island.

 

I use the spotting plane exclusively for that and firing at smoke.

I wish there was a way to toggle the inclined view though, I just don't click with it.

[RAHJAILARI]

I have the same problem also... Hmm, maybe it could be alleviated somewhat by simply providing a more enhanced "Gunsight" view for whenever spotting aircraft is being used?

[mtm78]

9 hours ago, RAHJAILARI said:

Hookeys, began playing (or trying to) BB's after a loong pause (1 year or more) and of course immediately noticed that the much vaunted Spotting Aircraft were just as useless as they have always been Why even bother putting them there?

 

This matter is even more annoying, since I have recently received 4 of the awesome "Spotting Aircraft Modifications" in sk. super containers (admittedly i fail to notice, what is so super about them), all of which are pretty much useless as well and the exchange of mounting them instead of the main armaments mod, for example, just is not worth it. My points, which everyone probably knows already:

 

1. The range increase they offer, is pretty much useless, unless the target is fully stationary and does not move, as the lead, you have to take for such long ranges means that you are likely to miss (since the target would have to travel in straight line for ages, which is not very likely. Also the atrocious dispersion at long ranges likely guarantees that none of your shots will hit.
2. If you hit anything with AP, it will likely bounce from the hilariously "thick" deck armor of any ship it might hit so HE is the only choice of ammo, which in turn causes minimal damage thus removing the incentive to even bother (why break concealment for a likely failure anyway).

 

So a proposal, what IF we could make those aircraft useful again in a few easy steps?:

1. Make it so, that while the spotting aircraft is airborne, ship's dispersion ellipse will be a little tighter, say by 2% or something at any range. Thus temporarily improving the BB's chance to hit something. This would of course only work as long as the aircraft is airborne.
2. Spotting aircraft could actually "spot" (I know Woah!) and Increase the effective detection / spotting range of the BB for a short while, for example so that they would temporarily be able to detect an approaching DD, which has a concealment of 6km from 6,6km away (so +10% buff). This would also work on other ships, while the aircraft is flying.

 

PS. I normally play DD, so I fully know this would increase the challenge, but then again a plucky and attentive DD player could still just observe that AHA! There are spotting aircraft about, wait for a while and approach again after they are gone and in cooldown, then torp the fiendish BB or then just torp it from a bit further away.

 

Just thinking, I have so many of the dratted SUPER spotting aircraft mods and absolutely no use for them or even for the regular kind... Oh yeah and before anyone says so, I know they could help in spotting incoming torps a little earlier but that just ain't enough.

 

 

No. 

[RamirezKurita]

To be honest, even something simple such as having the spotter circle (in a much narrower circle to what it currently does) around a point several km in front of where you are aiming would be a great start, possibly by reactivating the consumable while the aircraft is in the air (effectively it would toggle the spotter between circling the host ship and providing forward scouting). It would effectively give you increased sight range in the direction you are looking, but would make them vulnerable to being shot down and wouldn't provide vision towards the sides or back.

 

Seaplanes in general are something that I feel need a pretty serious revamp though. They were integral to several ship classes historically yet they seem to be a bit of an afterthought in WoWS.

[Estaca_de_Bares]

It's true that the given name is deceptive, because the main mission of the spotters is acting as a complement for the fire-control directors, observing the fall of the shells from a "better" (you need to get used to it) PoV. Their main use is, as already stated, hitting ships in smoke or close behind a landmass, but they also serve for some long range AP firing (contrarily to OP's thoughts, once you somewhat master the aiming citadels by plunging fire are not that uncommon, although heavily RNG based).

 

The idea of the plane doing circles in a forward scout from your current aiming doesn't sound bad (it would be more realistic), but it reduces your chances of spotting torpedoes or DDs, or even CV squadrons, coming from unexpected locations (something that happens more the longer the battle drags). You'll have to have an extremely good situational awareness and check the minimap constantly, which is something the average player does not do.

 

Salute.