Upcoming nerfs on smoke and IFHE. PLEASE STOP THIS MADNESS

[Grumpy_Shark]

WG, what a terrible nerf is this? I have been in matches where people would manage to score big hits against me on smoke while being undetected. So what happens is that the good players have gradually developed a "sense" of where to shoot in smoke etc to hurt you.So if you happen against good players (and I happen a lot for some reason) the smoke is only a marginal defense cause as I said a good player knows pretty much where to shoot you while you are in smoke "undetected". Now it will be even harder for cruisers especially the glass cruisers that for them the smoke was the only mean to survive. Well, at least I don't use the ships that NEED IFHE to perform any more sincei i have moved to hier tiers now that don't need that skill. and my ratio win/loss is crap because when i was grinding my way up in tiers the IFHE was not there for me. But I believe it was a nice skill to be around nevertheless.

PS and an opinion of a guy on youtube i totally agree so i post it here

"I don't see a need to change smoke. Smoke fields are torpedo magnets and are countered by radar and hydro. Also, spotter plane sniping makes it easy to delete squishy cruisers who think they are safe in smoke. Some say they slow down game play or stagnate matches. On occasion I see this happen for a short period, but as soon as torp spreads hit the smoke, ships leave and continue to move. Why does smoke need to nerfed? Some changes make me think the game is moving in the direction of 18th century musket infantry: everyone line up at close range and fire as fast as you can at the enemy until one side is dead. Skill level = 0 "

[bouncer8409]

Well said

[P2Win]

If you're sitting in smoke..YOU SHOULD NEVER BE ABLE to shoot from it(Don't care who is spotting). Smoke is supposed to be a last minute escape tactics not to sit in it for 2 minute and dakakakak. Now people will pay the ultimate price for that.

[Azalgor]

Rather than nerfing anything, they should BAN all the mods that help you shoot targets in smoke and others, leaving only cosmetic ones...

[Bladezfist]

11 minutes ago, P2Win said:

If you're sitting in smoke..YOU SHOULD NEVER BE ABLE to shoot from it(Don't care who is spotting). Smoke is supposed to be a last minute escape tactics not to sit in it for 2 minute and dakakakak. Now people will pay the ultimate price for that.

Okay, if they make that change then they should revert the stealth fire nerf or DDs will just never fire their guns. They then just need to completely rework one whole line of ships and a few premiums.

Or you could just realise that smoke was never a great defensive tool for good players, if you need to use it for this reason then you made a mistake. It's an offensive tool.

[Mydgard]

31 minutes ago, P2Win said:

If you're sitting in smoke..YOU SHOULD NEVER BE ABLE to shoot from it(Don't care who is spotting). Smoke is supposed to be a last minute escape tactics not to sit in it for 2 minute and dakakakak. Now people will pay the ultimate price for that.

Up against it ships who have smoke usually paper ships - british cruisers and DDs - so they have only advantage they can shot from their time-limited smoke screen. If they loose it, no reasonable cause to play with them.

[_VAMPA_]

29 minutes ago, Bladezfist said:

Okay, if they make that change then they should revert the stealth fire nerf or DDs will just never fire their guns. They then just need to completely rework one whole line of ships and a few premiums.

Or you could just realise that smoke was never a great defensive tool for good players, if you need to use it for this reason then you made a mistake. It's an offensive tool.

Did you realize that DDs are only that will not feel that 2 nerfs 1 is actually bufff  for gunboats, Benson will be visible from ~2.8km that is just 800m more than proxy spot range and ifhe for low calibers (under 139mm) will reduce just 1% FireChance.

btw when in dd i use my guns a lot out of smoke......more than in smoke

[Bladezfist]

8 minutes ago, _VAMPA_ said:

Did you realize that DDs are only that will not feel that 2 nerfs 1 is actually bufff  for gunboats, Benson will be visible from ~2.8km that is just 800m more than proxy spot range and ifhe for low calibers (under 139mm) will reduce just 1% FireChance.

btw when in dd i use my guns a lot out of smoke......more than in smoke

What I said was in regard to P2Win saying you should not be able to fire from smoke at all. But on your points...

 

Do any DDs benefit from taking IFHE enough to take it over any of the other skills?

You are definitely in the minority. Most games I play now have DDs rush to the cap, smoke up and exchange torps while fleeing. Hoping that they can lure the other DD into firing upon them to keep them detected as they leave detection range. 

DD gun duels on the cap are a thing of the past, at least for the first half of the match. It's super passive now.

[Seeigel]

If a good player hits you in smoke its still LUCK.

 

All he can do is to aim where your shots come from and hope for a hit. Because he can lock onto your ship, the dispersion is high and auto corrections are not there.

Its something different if you just popped your smoke because there is a small delay between you get undetected and the lock on your ship disappears.

 

There was a good topic about dispersion a while ago, maybe read it.

 

Its something different if a cruiser or DD fires at you in your smoke because of their high fire rate it is much easier for them to follow your gunfire and see if they hit.

 

No magic, no skill, all luck. (more or less)

[Bladezfist]

4 minutes ago, Seeigel said:

If a good player hits you in smoke its still LUCK.

 

All he can do is to aim where your shots come from and hope for a hit. Because he can lock onto your ship, the dispersion is high and auto corrections are not there.

Its something different if you just popped your smoke because there is a small delay between you get undetected and the lock on your ship disappears.

 

There was a good topic about dispersion a while ago, maybe read it.

 

Its something different if a cruiser or DD fires at you in your smoke because of their high fire rate it is much easier for them to follow your gunfire and see if they hit.

 

No magic, no skill, all luck. (more or less)

 

If that's the case then why do I hit with 90% of all my salvos fired against ships in smoke? Granted, I mainly only fire at RN CLs in smoke as it's pretty much impossible not to hit them.

[Aragathor]

1 hour ago, P2Win said:

If you're sitting in smoke..YOU SHOULD NEVER BE ABLE to shoot from it(Don't care who is spotting). Smoke is supposed to be a last minute escape tactics not to sit in it for 2 minute and dakakakak. Now people will pay the ultimate price for that.

 

Ok, if so then how should WG change RN cruisers? Because they built the whole line around sitting in smoke and firing their sAP.

 

1 hour ago, Azalgor said:

Rather than nerfing anything, they should BAN all the mods that help you shoot targets in smoke and others, leaving only cosmetic ones...

 

Do you know the greatest HAX to kill people in smoke? It's called "Spotter Airplane" consumable and is not a mod. You just activate it and wait for the other guy to fire. Then you see where he exactly is.

 

47 minutes ago, Bladezfist said:

 

If that's the case then why do I hit with 90% of all my salvos fired against ships in smoke? Granted, I mainly only fire at RN CLs in smoke as it's pretty much impossible not to hit them.

 

Some people mistake luck with skill. They will argue that your achievements are pure luck even though you can prove that you knew exactly what you were doing.

[Takru]

Do you guys realize that when those articles on the Dev Blog are posted, it's an information on what is going on on the Supertest?

A whole lot of that stuff never makes it to the live server, so calm your pants. Just because stuff is being tried doesn't mean it's coming OR is coming like it is now.

[SirAmra]

14 minutes ago, Takru said:

Do you guys realize that when those articles on the Dev Blog are posted, it's an information on what is going on on the Supertest?

A whole lot of that stuff never makes it to the live server, so calm your pants. Just because stuff is being tried doesn't mean it's coming OR is coming like it is now.

I agree, but seeing how they ignored their supertesters in wot....well.

[Tyrendian89]

2 hours ago, Azalgor said:

Rather than nerfing anything, they should BAN all the mods that help you shoot targets in smoke and others, leaving only cosmetic ones...

 

this...

 

26 minutes ago, Aragathor said:

Do you know the greatest HAX to kill people in smoke? It's called "Spotter Airplane" consumable and is not a mod. You just activate it and wait for the other guy to fire. Then you see where he exactly is.

 

 

and the mods that help you shoot targets in smoke ARE cosmetic mods... namely those that apply cosmetics to shell tracers.

[wilkatis_LV]

Thing is, you can't balance the game around only the "good players" or only around the "potatoes".

Just because "good" players can hit something in smoke doesn't mean it's a good mechanic for the rest of the community.

Just because something is easy enough for a "potato" to do doesn't mean a highly skilled player won't be able to abuse it.

Game has to be balanced for the average not one of the extremes.

 

At the same time I do dislike these PROPOSED (as they are just testing them, no need to overreact just yet) smoke changes. Smokescreens are torpedo magnets already, and there are many ships balanced around having a smokescreen (looks at British CLs).

[ShinGetsu]

1 hour ago, Bladezfist said:

Do any DDs benefit from taking IFHE enough to take it over any of the other skills?

You are definitely in the minority. Most games I play now have DDs rush to the cap, smoke up and exchange torps while fleeing. Hoping that they can lure the other DD into firing upon them to keep them detected as they leave detection range. 

DD gun duels on the cap are a thing of the past, at least for the first half of the match. It's super passive now.

It totally depends on the DD.

 

Akizuki and Harekaze needs IFHE to be competitive with their 100mm. Their HE just doesn't have enough penetration to keep up with the armor of tier 8+ DD without the skill.

Blyskawica is the same btw, but I never wanted to take IFHE on Bly because of the -3% fire chance. With a -1% it's starting to  get very interesting for DD knifefights.

[WingedHussar_Adler]

2 hours ago, P2Win said:

If you're sitting in smoke..YOU SHOULD NEVER BE ABLE to shoot from it(Don't care who is spotting). Smoke is supposed to be a last minute escape tactics not to sit in it for 2 minute and dakakakak. Now people will pay the ultimate price for that.

What ultimate price? DD will get 0.9 km increase in spoting range and cruisers 3.9.....it is ok. 

 

It will stop BS shooting from smoke.....15 km range......so most will still dakakakakka from smoke

[G01ngToxicCommand0]

3 hours ago, P2Win said:

If you're sitting in smoke..YOU SHOULD NEVER BE ABLE to shoot from it(Don't care who is spotting). Smoke is supposed to be a last minute escape tactics not to sit in it for 2 minute and dakakakak. Now people will pay the ultimate price for that.

Ran out of likes so you will have to settle with a +1

[Z_OnkelE]

3 hours ago, P2Win said:

If you're sitting in smoke..YOU SHOULD NEVER BE ABLE to shoot from it(Don't care who is spotting). Smoke is supposed to be a last minute escape tactics not to sit in it for 2 minute and dakakakak. Now people will pay the ultimate price for that.

 

I would like to see your elaborate rework for the RN cruiser line with all obviously so much knowledge and experience of the game and its mechanics.

 

Regarding OP: this nerf, if it ever will be implemented, is tailored towards large calibre guns shooting from within smoke without being spotted. Basically it is designed to prevent battleships from sitting in smoke and farm easy damage while undetected. Light cruisers and destroyers will be, with the proposed chage, pretty much not affected. Unfortunately all those light cruisers still have to fight experienced players sometimes and can get hit while undetected (thanks to a certain spotter plane technique or just educated guess due to the mentioned experience). At least your ship still will not be detected, not before the killing blow will have happened.

[Aragathor]

1 hour ago, Takru said:

Do you guys realize that when those articles on the Dev Blog are posted, it's an information on what is going on on the Supertest?

A whole lot of that stuff never makes it to the live server, so calm your pants. Just because stuff is being tried doesn't mean it's coming OR is coming like it is now.

 

If we keep silent hoping that they figure out that the previewed material is bad for the game, then we might as well all start playing battleships.

Time and again the devs have shown us that they don't understand the game and its game play. We need to be the loud voice of disagreement, because only then we can prevent them from destroying the game.

Even so they don't listen enough to us, as the issues that plague the game and which we mention almost every day are being ignored.

[159Hunter]

1 hour ago, Takru said:

Do you guys realize that when those articles on the Dev Blog are posted, it's an information on what is going on on the Supertest?

A whole lot of that stuff never makes it to the live server, so calm your pants. Just because stuff is being tried doesn't mean it's coming OR is coming like it is now.

And if WG would have had a good track record of communication with its playerbase and actually discussing ( not posting a topic, replying the first hour and then nothing ) we wouldn't be bringing out our pitchforks every single time.

I love the fact that they are trying ( trying being the keyword ) to improve, but they have a long way ahead of them. Especially WG EU. So I'm sorry, you may defend them, but for now I'll keep sharpening my pitchforks and preparing fires for my torches.

[svadilfari]

cant believe they want to nerf light cruisers even more. 

nevermind that. i cant believe they want to buff battleships even more.

insanity

[Gleb_Reawer]

1 hour ago, Takru said:

Do you guys realize that when those articles on the Dev Blog are posted, it's an information on what is going on on the Supertest?

A whole lot of that stuff never makes it to the live server, so calm your pants. Just because stuff is being tried doesn't mean it's coming OR is coming like it is now.

 

I wish I was as optimistic as you are but...

 

4 minutes ago, 159Hunter said:

And if WG would have had a good track record of communication with its playerbase and actually discussing ( not posting a topic, replying the first hour and then nothing ) we wouldn't be bringing out our pitchforks every single time.

I love the fact that they are trying ( trying being the keyword ) to improve, but they have a long way ahead of them. Especially WG EU. So I'm sorry, you may defend them, but for now I'll keep sharpening my pitchforks and preparing fires for my torches.

 

^ This is why I don't. Coming originally from WoT where this kind of "balancing" was even worse, I too shall keep sharpening the pitchforck and keep browsing for cheap torches

[HotshotJimmy]

4 hours ago, P2Win said:

If you're sitting in smoke..YOU SHOULD NEVER BE ABLE to shoot from it(Don't care who is spotting). Smoke is supposed to be a last minute escape tactics not to sit in it for 2 minute and dakakakak. Now people will pay the ultimate price for that.

 

Then the large citadels need to be removed from the RN cruisers. Simple as that.

[Culiacan_Mexico]

4 hours ago, P2Win said:

...Smoke is supposed to be a last minute escape tactics...

Your opinion... Not WGs.