smoke From the Dev Blog... Smoke!

[Fat_Maniac]

Heres the latest dev blog posts.

 

ST, IFHE changes. The penalty to firing chance changes with caliber now. It is set to -1% for light calibers up to 139 mm, and to -8% for the rest. This change should make IFHE more viable on DDs and reduce its excessive performance on some cruisers. In case the change is adopted, IFHE is automatically reset for 4 skill points.

 

ST, Smoke mechanics update. Ship-to-ship detection for smoke firing now applies not only for the ship in smoke, but also if there is a smoke cloud on LOS between the shooter and the target. That will allow to exclude a highly illogical situation when hiding behind smokes gives better concealment than hiding inside smokes. Ship-to-ship detection for smoke firing is calculated for each hull, based on caliber and base concealment, it is not influenced by any skills or upgrades. It does not replace guaranteed detection and still requires LOS (smokes excluded for this check). The exact value for each ship can be found in Port specs. Similar to current main gun firing penalty, the effect lasts for 20 seconds only if the ship was detected as a result of firing.

 

[rvfharrier]

8 minutes ago, Zero_Strikez said:

in any case it seems WG wants to make smoke a last Resort Defensive tool then a aggressive tool

 

Which is pretty ridiculous given how passively games are already played with offensive smoke being just about viable. It makes you wonder... is WG actually pushing for passive, long range game play rather than trying to fix it?

[Kashuken]

11 minutes ago, Fat_Maniac said:

Heres the latest dev blog posts.

 

ST, IFHE changes. The penalty to firing chance changes with caliber now. It is set to -1% for light calibers up to 139 mm, and to -8% for the rest. This change should make IFHE more viable on DDs and reduce its excessive performance on some cruisers. In case the change is adopted, IFHE is automatically reset for 4 skill points.

 

ST, Smoke mechanics update. Ship-to-ship detection for smoke firing now applies not only for the ship in smoke, but also if there is a smoke cloud on LOS between the shooter and the target. That will allow to exclude a highly illogical situation when hiding behind smokes gives better concealment than hiding inside smokes. Ship-to-ship detection for smoke firing is calculated for each hull, based on caliber and base concealment, it is not influenced by any skills or upgrades. It does not replace guaranteed detection and still requires LOS (smokes excluded for this check). The exact value for each ship can be found in Port specs. Similar to current main gun firing penalty, the effect lasts for 20 seconds only if the ship was detected as a result of firing.

 

 

Looks like my IFHE ships will require either a respec or DE but putting back on 2% more fire when i lose 8 anyways seems pointless now, makes it a bit of a buff for BB now since they will most likely be on fire alot less.

 

So as some people in this thread said 'just hide behind the smoke you will be fine' are wrong and you will be fucked yet again by WG bad ideas team, seriously they might aswell just remove smoke at this rate because it will be [edited]useless to the ship that deploys it and the ship that tries to use it and the ship behind it and any ship that thinks they can move up using smoke as a screen and firing.

 

Looks like setting smoke screens in ranked is [edited]pointless now, you get spotted no matter what.

[Culiacan_Mexico]

15 minutes ago, Fat_Maniac said:

Heres the latest dev blog posts.

 

ST, IFHE changes. The penalty to firing chance changes with caliber now. It is set to -1% for light calibers up to 139 mm, and to -8% for the rest. This change should make IFHE more viable on DDs and reduce its excessive performance on some cruisers. In case the change is adopted, IFHE is automatically reset for 4 skill points.

 

That seems like a significant nerf to some cruisers.  

[Culiacan_Mexico]

18 minutes ago, Fat_Maniac said:

... That will allow to exclude a highly illogical situation when hiding behind...

 

...an Island radar and sonar see through it?   

[Reisen__]

ST, smoke firing detection range - test values for IJN DDs (km).

Minekaze 2,22
Kamikaze 2,22
Mutsuki 2,22
Shiratsuyu 2,49
Akatsuki 2,75
Hatsuharu 2,49
Kagero 2,55
Akizuki 2,39
Yugumo 2,62
Shinonome 2,62
Fubuki 2,62
Shimakaze 2,83

 

[ForlornSailor]

Why all these straight nerfs to Cruisers? They are underperforming and underplayed anyway, especially on high tiers! Its hard enough right now to get by in a T8+ Cruiser. I dont even know where to start....

[mtm78]

4 hours ago, Gudgeon said:

Most of your posts involve arguing with people and being cocky. A meme will be the reply now I guess. You sound like a knowledgeable guy, how about using this thread to come up with suggestions/idea's, as hopefully the creator of the thread can feedback our thoughts back into wargaming (not that they will 100% listen)?

 

Awwwww... my meme posting has been limited because forum doesn't like to embed images atm for some reason ( looks like image proxy is set up wrong ). Anyway, looks like you think I didn't spend more than a year giving ideas already, how cute. You do realize I have ZERO trust in my feedback being used constructively, so I rather talk with 'important' people and try to get them to say the things I want to say. Seems it's easier that way, also it's not like I have to change people's mind to say BB camping in smoke might be an issue in competitive, in randoms it's not. It's way easier to have actual people involved give the structured feedback WG 'requires' to be taken seriously, and it won't make me feel like killing someone if the game goes in the exact opposite direction anyway. 

 

Quote

So, you don't like 'twitch shooters'. What is your suggestion for making cruisers more survivable against battleship RNG then? Kiting is the only option. Smoke on RN CL's was the other. Harder to hit cruisers mean that battleships may shoot battleships first, instead of wasting salvo's on harder to hit targets.

 

Kiting is fine with me, it's the overmatch which I don't like. Negating skill through angling because baby took a battleship... You know it COULD be alright, as long as there weren't 5 BB's per game each game in the upcoming year or so at least. See, I don't have problems with CA / BB balance, it's mostly fine. There are just 2x as many BB's per game as I would like. One or two bb's, with three BB's max per side, would already give a lot of cruiser some air. 

 

Quote

BTW this re-balance could potentially kill all cruiser play in this game and convert it to world of battleships and torpedo DD's. That will be a fun and interesting game. 

 

Cruiser play been threatened for a LONG time already, sadly WG thinks that catering to BBabies is the most profitable in the long run. Anyway, I don't use smoke that often in my Hindenburg, not in my Zao and not in my Moscva ( and don't even get me started on lower tiers ). It's only 15xmm cruisers for me which make me want to sit in smoke as often as possible. But yeah I don't have a Des Moines and I know how it loves being smoked up near or in a cap and just melt anything which comes to try and contest it. 

 

Cruiser play isn't going to die.

 

Also, why do you have trust in those 'anti bbaby' torpedoes? They are for hurting BBabies, chances that will be good at their job is not that high. 

 

1 hour ago, Fat_Maniac said:

Heres the latest dev blog posts.

 

ST, IFHE changes. The penalty to firing chance changes with caliber now. It is set to -1% for light calibers up to 139 mm, and to -8% for the rest. This change should make IFHE more viable on DDs and reduce its excessive performance on some cruisers. In case the change is adopted, IFHE is automatically reset for 4 skill points.

 

ST, Smoke mechanics update. Ship-to-ship detection for smoke firing now applies not only for the ship in smoke, but also if there is a smoke cloud on LOS between the shooter and the target. That will allow to exclude a highly illogical situation when hiding behind smokes gives better concealment than hiding inside smokes. Ship-to-ship detection for smoke firing is calculated for each hull, based on caliber and base concealment, it is not influenced by any skills or upgrades. It does not replace guaranteed detection and still requires LOS (smokes excluded for this check). The exact value for each ship can be found in Port specs. Similar to current main gun firing penalty, the effect lasts for 20 seconds only if the ship was detected as a result of firing.

 

 

IFHE changes == BBaby buffs. I was waiting for those really. Ofc I did say myself it could be toned down a little bit because it seemed over the top... but this is to much ( as expected off course ). 

[Listy]

I'm sitting here in game staring at my Edinburgh, and thinking "What's the point now". Can't bring myself to hit battle either.

[Reisen__]

you know what could really tick off bb players
allowing German (and when them come into the game the RN DDs) to have Magnet lock-on torpedos

[ForlornSailor]

1 minute ago, Listy said:

I'm sitting here in game staring at my Edinburgh, and thinking "What's the point now". Can't bring myself to hit battle either.

 

100% my feeling. Was about to grind to Minotaur but I dont even want to invest in the Edinburgh since the rumors about the smoke started....

[Listy]

Just now, ForlornSailor said:

 

100% my feeling. Was about to grind to Minotaur but I dont even want to invest in the Edinburgh since the rumors about the smoke started....

 

Sod it, I'll play a battleship instead.

[Haleos]

IFHE change is completely absurd and pointless. IFHE is perfect as it is. Nerfing IFHE would only be yet another buff to Battleships and would cause another reason NOT to play a cruiser.

 

Sub_Octavian, I really wonder: Do you, as a whole developer team, have a really deep and colossal grudge against cruisers?

 

Because every change you propose here, is basically a buff to Battleships and an axe on the Cruisers.

[HotshotJimmy]

12 minutes ago, Listy said:

I'm sitting here in game staring at my Edinburgh, and thinking "What's the point now". Can't bring myself to hit battle either.

 

I have had 800+ games of pure love and hate in the Minotaur and all of these changes are going to completely ruin RN cruisers if they bring these into the game which if they are considering them enough to let us know they probably will in some way shape or form. Lucky the RN bbs are just around the corner! Oh well looks like the World of Battleships is coming to me too 

F*** you WG. 

[robihr]

my opinions on this change:

 

Random battles:

• RN CL should have lower detection range.. at least 4.5-5km. their only defense is smoke. even dd has more survivability cause they dont have citadels. VMF DD or US DD can easily kill RN CL 1v1 from that range without being spotted.
• DD arent affected much/at all
• it is relatively bad change for CA survivability and only viable play for CA will be long range sniping (he spamming)
• BB arent affected much (around 10% of BB actually stay in smoke when i lay it out for them, other 90% just go through it)
• almost no teamplay (as if that existed in randoms)
• reduced impact of good divisions

Ranked battles:

• DD gain supremacy in ranked (as if that was ever in question)
• RN CL become more viable for ranked (smoke+hydro+lots of dd)
• other CL/CA become totally shitty cause they cant contest caps anymore
• BB wont push anymore (as if they were pushing now ) and will just concentrate on sniping
• more selfish play from DD (no point in smoking when people will get detected anyway)

Team/Clan battles:

• less smoke camping for BB

[Listy]

4 minutes ago, robihr said:

• BB arent affected much (around 10% of BB actually stay in smoke when i lay it out for them, other 90% just go through it)

 

 

To be fair I think that is more a breaking issue than a game play one. We'd love to stay inside the smoke, but physics is a right swine, especially momentum.

[MaxxyNL]

Thank you for the info @Tuccy and @Sub_Octavian 

[robihr]

4 minutes ago, Listy said:

 

To be fair I think that is more a breaking issue than a game play one. We'd love to stay inside the smoke, but physics is a right swine, especially momentum.

 

nah.. its the player stupidity mostly. i usually either warn people to brake so i can smoke them, or lay it few km in front or both. people are zoomed in on their target and dont see anything else...

[mtm78]

5 minutes ago, Listy said:

 

To be fair I think that is more a breaking issue than a game play one. We'd love to stay inside the smoke, but physics is a right swine, especially momentum.

 

Nah momentum can be managed, you're making it sound like it's the DD's fault for setting the smoke 'wrong' so the BBaby can't slow down. It's the other way around in 99% of the cases, the smoke is perfect and the BB 'player' just ignores.

[Aragathor]

1 hour ago, Fat_Maniac said:

ST, IFHE changes. The penalty to firing chance changes with caliber now. It is set to -1% for light calibers up to 139 mm, and to -8% for the rest. This change should make IFHE more viable on DDs and reduce its excessive performance on some cruisers. In case the change is adopted, IFHE is automatically reset for 4 skill points.

 

Here are some numbers for IFHE with this change including DE:

Cleveland - 14% -> 6%

Kirov - 15% -> 7%

Budyonny - 14% -> 6%

Shchors - 14% -> 6%

Galissonniere - 14% -> 6%

Duca - 9% -> 1%

 

IJN and KM cruisers are unaffected by this change, as the first goes 203mm at T5 and the second doesn't need IFHE. Atlanta gets a buff through this change as it gains 1% fire chance through DE, since IFHE for 127mm is only -1%.

If anything this is a massive nerf to Russian cruisers and a death sentence for the Duca.

[Fat_Maniac]

4 minutes ago, Aragathor said:

If anything this is a massive nerf to Russian cruisers.

 

What comrade! 

нет!

So it wont go thru then. Russian ships are stronk! and must remain stronk! 

[mtm78]

Let's make 2018 the year of the Battleships WG, please just remove all cruisers from the game no one likes playing those anyway   

[Aragathor]

1 minute ago, mtm78 said:

Let's make 2018 the year of the Battleships WG, please just remove all cruisers from the game no one likes playing those anyway   

 

The remove CVs, as no one in his right mind would play them. Then make AP work 100% against DDs.

WG throwing the baby out with the bath water.

[Allied_Winter]

31 minutes ago, Aragathor said:

 

 

 

IJN and KM cruisers are unaffected by this change, as the first goes 203mm at T5 and the second doesn't need IFHE. Atlanta gets a buff through this change as it gains 1% fire chance through DE, since IFHE for 127mm is only -1%.

If anything this is a massive nerf to Russian cruisers and a death sentence for the Duca.

 

Belfast might have a word with you ;)

 

 

Greetings

[Isalani]

So...

IFHE cruisers will now be next to useless against saturated targets.

Cruisers will no longer be comfortable firing from smokes.

Cruisers will suffer from deep running torps as well.

 

Why is it when WG wants to bring BB's in line they end up nerfing other classes instead?

 

Good times incoming ^^