smoke From the Dev Blog... Smoke!

[Grumpy_Shark]

On 18/8/2017 at 11:12 PM, Humorpalanta said:

WG at work:

-Hmmm, give something more to BBs.

-Hmmm, give something again to BBs.

-Hmmm, we have too many BBs, let's help it with giving more to BBs.

-Hmmm, BBs are already the last ships in a game 90% of the time, we should help them more!

-Hmmm, nerf everything that isn't a BB. Destroyer with 11 km shooting range? Who cares? Give a BB secondaries, that shoot further than its guns and torps. So balanced. Also, give it hydro. Just for reasons.

-Hmmm, nerf visibility of vulnerable ships, so they can be more easily killed by BBs that can heal up more than the counter's HP (with one heal). Because destroyers causing 100 broken pen, 10 times 500 HP and 1 fire is ridicolously much that a 80k HP Bb just can't deal with.

-Hmmm, nerf smoke, cos you know, BBs can get hurt. 11 km DD shooting range, only option to do it from smoke, while getting close enough not meeting huge amount of (double) planes, hydro, radar, torps, blank shots to smoke, and naturally, fun and engaging mechanics. So in this way, BBs can more easily kill anything and doesn't need to worry about smokes anymore.

-And yet, give BBs absolute hilarious AP pens on DDs, that way they don't even need to think a little bit to you know, change to HE. Because DDs haven't got enough nerfs yet.

-Next idea should be to completely turn off invisibility, and make every ship visible all the time, so BBs don't need to think at all.

Because 8-9 km visibility on a destroyer, 15 on a cruiser and 12 on a BB is completely balanced.

 

Hey WG! Answer me something. What is left from BBingo?

You are an amateur. The true professional way would be this:

Make islands transparent and make BBs to be able to shot through them,  it makes sense since BBs supposedly have "special radar" systems able to do such things.  :P

[RAHJAILARI]

Weel, as I like to drive DD mostly and I never saw BB's or cruisers hiding in smoke as a problem... After all I have gotten several double strikes with my Yugumo (with a torpedo booster) and Shima, by just shooting random torps into rather angry smokescreens...  I have always relished the chance, since the thing is - Those guys hiding in the smoke also cannot spot my torps until it is way too late (well, except for the Sonar of course, but it cannot be on all the time and even with it working, if you have stopped, it will take too late too long to start moving again to avoid them all).

 

I have also recently begun trying to play BB (but I am atrocious atr it so far, much to learn) and discovered tomy dismay that in the one minute, that you have time in a smokescreen you will at most manage one or two salvos before it disappears, so not much advantage seems to be gained there.

 

I also wonder, what will Kutuzov do now that both smoke and IFHE are getting nerfed? Will it become entirely useless? I do not have it myself, but I know it is very vulnerable (easy target to citadel at any distance) and the guns seem to be quite ineffective against BB apart from a chance of fire?

 

Smoke nerf just seems to be entirely unnecessary to me. Fine if they do, fine if they don't as far as I am concerned but it seems quite bad for ships like the Kutuzov, which rely on this one trick, just to accomplish anything in any given game.

 

Of course, i see ships like Kutuzov and perhaps also Belfast, as pretty much "one trick ponies", but take away that trick and what is going to be left?

[ionutdragut]

the smoke nerf it's bad for "gunship smokers"... it seems the whole enemy fleet can see you if one ship its close enough to detect your firing guns, and that's not normal. Its normal to detect you only the ship in detection smoke firing range, from all other ships your position its hard to detect

[ionutdragut]

I have Belfast and i think WG turned my investment to garbage.... so i don't buy ships from WG anymore because they decide to ruin the performance of premium ships after they spend my money, and give me doblons instead. I don't pay for dublons .... i pay for Belfast with certain characteristics. I was intending to buy Kutuzov and i changed my mind . In fact i decide to not spend other money buying other ships from this diddlers. They can decide to nerf and broke any ship i can buy in the future.

[RambaRal]

You can have a refund for your Belfast:

 

Quote

After announcing changes to the way Smoke Screens will operate, the World of Warships Dev Team made a decision to give players that own Premium ships carrying a Smoke Generator (Mikhail Kutuzov, Belfast and Perth) an option to exchange the ships for Doubloons in an amount equaling to the ships' price, no discounts applied, if they feel those ships no longer meet their gameplay expectations.

To exchange a ship for Doubloons, sell her and get your Doubloons right in the game client. The exchange option will be available until the release of Update 0.6.14.

Apart from that, with the release of Update 0.6.12 the cruisers Mikhail Kutuzov and Belfast will be unavailable for purchase in Premium Shops, whereas Perth will not be available for purchase until further notice. This is because those ships turned out to be excessively efficient in certain battle situat

 

Here's the link to the patch notes:

https://worldofwarships.asia/en/news/announcements/ver-06_12-patchnotes/

 

[Tanaka_15]

After some games in Brit CAs and DM this change is bad. Just stupid and bad. And now we have like 150 ++ BBs in line for a game and 1-2 CAs. Well done WG.... 

[RUSSIANBlAS]

7 minutes ago, Tanaka_15 said:

After some games in Brit CAs and DM this change is bad. Just stupid and bad. And now we have like 150 ++ BBs in line for a game and 1-2 CAs. Well done WG.... 

Must admit, the MM is a bit of a mess. Although I think the changes are in reality not a big a deal as people think, the perception of it has a lot of folk running scared.

[RambaRal]

The biggerst drawback, from my DD player point of view, is that I noticed a sensible increase of Moskva Cruisers in the last weekend. Not funny at all...

[Tanaka_15]

2 hours ago, Negativvv said:

Must admit, the MM is a bit of a mess. Although I think the changes are in reality not a big a deal as people think, the perception of it has a lot of folk running scared.

Well i think it is also point of skill. For me mino now is very hard to play right (by right i mean contest caps from start of the game and push dds out of caps).The 5 km detection from smoke is instant delete for me to often. I will play Mino or Fiji and I will have a good games in them but I will not contest caps, and if i will not do this, I will not have inpact on wining games and thats why i think this change is crap. We will see how it will work in longer period. 

[RUSSIANBlAS]

23 minutes ago, Tanaka_15 said:

Well i think it is also point of skill. For me mino now is very hard to play right (by right i mean contest caps from start of the game and push dds out of caps).The 5 km detection from smoke is instant delete for me to often. I will play Mino or Fiji and I will have a good games in them but I will not contest caps, and if i will not do this, I will not have inpact on wining games and thats why i think this change is crap. We will see how it will work in longer period. 

Mino is best employed as a radar Cruiser imo. Brutally effective but also very knife edge.

 

Try it and island hug. You might be surprised at the result.

[ForlornSailor]

22 minutes ago, Tanaka_15 said:

Well i think it is also point of skill. For me mino now is very hard to play right (by right i mean contest caps from start of the game and push dds out of caps).The 5 km detection from smoke is instant delete for me to often. I will play Mino or Fiji and I will have a good games in them but I will not contest caps, and if i will not do this, I will not have inpact on wining games and thats why i think this change is crap. We will see how it will work in longer period. 

 

Confirmed. This is not possible anymore, unless you are suicidal or have so much luck, that you win the lottery weekly. I still think, that RN CLs need a lower smoke detectability. Something in the range of 4,x would be a start. It could balance the risks out, that you take to support your DD.

[Humorpalanta]

2 hours ago, RambaRal said:

You can have a refund for your Belfast:

 

 

Here's the link to the patch notes:

https://worldofwarships.asia/en/news/announcements/ver-06_12-patchnotes/

 

It's not a refund. A refund is when you get your money back. In this case I don't get back my money. So it doesn't cause any harm to the company meanwhile that is the reason of refund. So the company can feel throught its vein that what he had done was wrong.

After all these changes (stealth fire nerf, smoke nerf,  etc) core base mechanics of the game were changed. If they were a company that actually cares about their customers they wouldn't have done it in the first place but if the did it they would have offered some refund. Not all of your invested money, but like 50% of them. Because it isn't the same game what it was when i payed for it.

I'm actually thinking about sueing them for some refund and EU justice system actually makes it possible to win.

[RambaRal]

6 minutes ago, Humorpalanta said:

It's not a refund. A refund is when you get your money back. In this case I don't get back my money. So it doesn't cause any harm to the company meanwhile that is the reason of refund. So the company can feel throught its vein that what he had done was wrong.

After all these changes (stealth fire nerf, smoke nerf,  etc) core base mechanics of the game were changed. If they were a company that actually cares about their customers they wouldn't have done it in the first place but if the did it they would have offered some refund. Not all of your invested money, but like 50% of them. Because it isn't the same game what it was when i payed for it.

I'm actually thinking about sueing them for some refund and EU justice system actually makes it possible to win.

 

Fair enough, besides I just noticed that, as per his second post, Iondragut was already aware of the sell-for-full-doubloon-price option, so my post was useless anyway.

[Aragathor]

58 minutes ago, Humorpalanta said:

I'm actually thinking about sueing them for some refund and EU justice system actually makes it possible to win.

 

And this is what they are scared of, someone taking them to court claiming they took the money and then changed the game so you can't use what you paid for.

 

1 hour ago, ForlornSailor said:

I still think, that RN CLs need a lower smoke detectability. Something in the range of 4,x would be a start. It could balance the risks out, that you take to support your DD.

 

4,x would be a start and maybe some more shell velocity.

[Noobsplatter]

1 hour ago, Humorpalanta said:

I'm actually thinking about sueing them for some refund and EU justice system actually makes it possible to win.

I hope you do and win.

 

If so then maybe, just maybe they would improve in regards to testing stuff properly instead of releasing stupid stuff to make a quick buck because they can just nerf it later without caring about how the game suffers. 

[Jethro_Grey]

6 hours ago, ionutdragut said:

I have Belfast and i think WG turned my investment to garbage.... so i don't buy ships from WG anymore because they decide to ruin the performance of premium ships after they spend my money, and give me doblons instead. I don't pay for dublons .... i pay for Belfast with certain characteristics. I was intending to buy Kutuzov and i changed my mind . In fact i decide to not spend other money buying other ships from this diddlers. They can decide to nerf and broke any ship i can buy in the future.

 

And you still have Belfast with the same characteristics, she still has Radar, she still has hydro, she still has her base concealment, the guns, the speed and maneuverability, and the all the other stats she had.

What changed was a global(!!!) mechanic and that was never ever advertised anywhere and sure as hell not in the premium shop on Belfast's or MKs page.

 

Since it is a global change, one could argue that it's an F2P thing since silver ships are affected as well and thus no eligibility for refunds is given.

 

Seriously, get over it and adjust or take the doubloons.

Neither of these ships has become unplayable as nothing significant has changed, they are still as OP as before.

If someone was ignorant enough to smoke up 5km of an enemy ship before the - very welcome -  smoke change, WG should consider handing out Premiums to players who made a "premium driving license" beforehand.

 

 

There are many reasons to give WG $hit, this global smoke change is not one of them.

 

 

[Drunken_Jedi]

6 hours ago, ionutdragut said:

I have Belfast and i think WG turned my investment to garbage.... so i don't buy ships from WG anymore because they decide to ruin the performance of premium ships after they spend my money, and give me doblons instead. I don't pay for dublons .... i pay for Belfast with certain characteristics. I was intending to buy Kutuzov and i changed my mind . In fact i decide to not spend other money buying other ships from this diddlers. They can decide to nerf and broke any ship i can buy in the future.

 

Dude if you think the ship is useless, I'm sorry to say it's your ability that's holding you back not the ship. She does just fine!

[ionutdragut]

26 minutes ago, Jethro_Grey said:

 

And you still have Belfast with the same characteristics, she still has Radar, she still has hydro, she still has her base concealment, the guns, the speed and maneuverability, and the all the other stats she had.

What changed was a global(!!!) mechanic and that was never ever advertised anywhere and sure as hell not in the premium shop on Belfast's or MKs page.

 

Since it is a global change, one could argue that it's an F2P thing since silver ships are affected as well and thus no eligibility for refunds is given.

 

Seriously, get over it and adjust or take the doubloons.

Neither of these ships has become unplayable as nothing significant has changed, they are still as OP as before.

If someone was ignorant enough to smoke up 5km of an enemy ship before the - very welcome -  smoke change, WG should consider handing out Premiums to players who made a "premium driving license" beforehand.

 

 

There are many reasons to give WG $hit, this global smoke change is not one of them.

 

 

I can take over that IDIOT idea, and i will argument that, i will not trade my Belfast and i will use it as it is .... But i can consider not buying ships anymore because they can ruin theirs characteristics withe several clicks, like messing airspeed of my planes or other thing.

The idiot fact is that whole enemy fleet can see and target you sitting duck in "smoke cover" only if you have a 5,5 KM unseen enemy DD detecting your firing main guns. I can live with that detection, OK the DD can see me, but why 15 16 KM enemy BB can shoot and wipe me from the map ....  with that i can't live with, that BB in real life can't pin point me with that great accuracy given by the fact he can target me like smoke doesn't exist. It's ok DD can see me... he can see guns firing and smoke shifting and dispersing, but 16 KM BB ????? WTF ???

[Jethro_Grey]

7 minutes ago, ionutdragut said:

I can take over that IDIOT idea, and i will argument that, i will not trade my Belfast and i will use it as it is .... But i can consider not buying ships anymore because they can ruin theirs characteristics withe several clicks, like messing airspeed of my planes or other thing.

The only time Premioums were adjusted was, when WG buffed them in one way or another. They have never, and will never nerf premiums in WoWS.

 

The idiot fact is that whole enemy fleet can see and target you sitting duck in "smoke cover" only if you have a 5,5 KM unseen enemy DD detecting your firing main guns.

A DD was able to spot you before the smoke change if he strayed into detection range of 2 or 3 km. If a player in a Belfast lets a DD get to either range, and doesn't klilled him within two salvos, he effed up badly.

 

I can live with that detection, OK the DD can see me, but why 15 16 KM enemy BB can shoot and wipe me from the map .... 

That's because your detection range is the firing range. Be happy that the BB at 17km can't shoot you. ^^

 

with that i can't live with, that BB in real life can't pin point me with that great accuracy given by the fact he can target me like smoke doesn't exist.

WoWS is not a virtual representation of real life^tm naval combat. It doesn't even come close to the real deal. It's a game and an arcade game at that. 

 

It's ok DD can see me... he can see guns firing and smoke shifting and dispersing, but 16 KM BB ????? WTF ???

 

 

Idiot idea? I see.

 

So, thx to your post we can see the core of your issue here.

Are you sure you want to keep playing WoWS? The core of this game is in continuous development and what we have to today, i.e. the current smoke mechanics are most likely to change sometime in the future. Not to mention other mechanics which are currently in place.

Since you have trouble adjusting, maybe you should play something that has fixed mechanics like Navyfield and similar games.

 

I will address some of your points in the quote, written in arcade navy blue. 

 

[EsaTuunanen]

2 hours ago, ionutdragut said:

with that i can't live with, that BB in real life can't pin point me with that great accuracy given by the fact he can target me like smoke doesn't exist. It's ok DD can see me... he can see guns firing and smoke shifting and dispersing, but 16 KM BB ????? WTF ???

In real life active radar emissions would be detected far farther than radar can detect other ships.

And with two ships detecting emissions that would fast result in rough triangulated position.

Similarly active sonar would be detected from lot farther distance than it can detect something.

Passive sonar of that era likely wasn't again that good at detecting torps from any longer range and passive sonar definitely wouldn't detect stationary ship.

And they would work even less through some Mt. Everest pretending to be island.

 

And at the same time it's OK for you to be able to shoot at DD spotted by someone else?

[ionutdragut]

3 hours ago, Drunken_Jedi said:

 

Dude if you think the ship is useless, I'm sorry to say it's your ability that's holding you back not the ship. She does just fine!

I don't like how this smoke mechanics affect my Belfast and i want my MONEY back.... not dublons. I dont intend to buy dublons, when i want dublons i buy them. Simple as that. My point is : i don't buy premium ships anymore because i don't have certainty of WG don't mess it again. I will play Belfast and adjust my game play, but i don't like to pay real MONEY for a thing at WG disposal. It's my choice how i spend my money and for what products.

[Humorpalanta]

8 hours ago, Jethro_Grey said:

 

And you still have Belfast with the same characteristics, she still has Radar, she still has hydro, she still has her base concealment, the guns, the speed and maneuverability, and the all the other stats she had.

What changed was a global(!!!) mechanic and that was never ever advertised anywhere and sure as hell not in the premium shop on Belfast's or MKs page.

 

Since it is a global change, one could argue that it's an F2P thing since silver ships are affected as well and thus no eligibility for refunds is given.

 

Seriously, get over it and adjust or take the doubloons.

Neither of these ships has become unplayable as nothing significant has changed, they are still as OP as before.

If someone was ignorant enough to smoke up 5km of an enemy ship before the - very welcome -  smoke change, WG should consider handing out Premiums to players who made a "premium driving license" beforehand.

 

 

There are many reasons to give WG $hit, this global smoke change is not one of them.

 

 

A would agree with you, except:

Ship visibility from smoke isn't consistent. It was calculated for each ship by different measures. So, if you think about it, it's actually not a global change. It's a big change, reached every ship, but changed every ship differently, so it's not exactly global.