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BrettMRC

Penetrations that cause no damage

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I've noticed a few times lately, mostly whilst playing Hood, that I get a shell penetration ribbon but cause no damage at all with that shell.

Is this an intended game mechanic?

 

Apologies if this question has been posted before.

 

Will try and get a screen grab next time.

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[ONE2]
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That is called OP = Over-Penetration. it happens, when you use AP on a ship, which has either no armor or a very weak armor. The shell just makes a hole and passes harmlessly through the ship without causing any damage (this is how Taffy won the battle os Leyte gulf in WW2).

 

If that happens, quickly switch your shells to HE and next time remember which enemy ship it was so you won't waste your AP on them.

 

I learned this the hard way trying in vain to citadel a Fiji with my Kongo's 356mm AP rounds... Wasted 2 salvos that hit but caused no damage whatsoever. BUT managed to kill it almost instantly after switching to HE (including 1 citadel - Finally).

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I get that, but this is not showing as an over penetration on the ribbons - its showing as a penetration but causing zero damage.  (Unlike the c10% damage you get for an over penetration)

 

Apologies if I am being thick here!

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9 minutes ago, RAHJAILARI said:

That is called OP = Over-Penetration. it happens, when you use AP on a ship, which has either no armor or a very weak armor. The shell just makes a hole and passes harmlessly through the ship without causing any damage (this is how Taffy won the battle os Leyte gulf in WW2).

 

If that happens, quickly switch your shells to HE and next time remember which enemy ship it was so you won't waste your AP on them.

 

Sorry, but you're completely wrong. Overpenetrations do 10% damage and have their own symbol, and is nothing like the OP explains in his post.

 

According to developers, these are penetrations to modules that cause module damage, but not enough to break it (typically, main gun turrets) so you can't see the greyed icon popping up. My opinion is that they have no clue on what's going on.

 

 

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Maybe you only penetrated a smokestack or a deck chair or laundry hung out to dry or something (somebody's got a gaping huge hole in their johnsons now, weee!)? Dunnoh, if those count...

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Aaa, module damage? I always thought there would be an icon coming up, when that happens though? Maybe there should be be a ribbon for that so we know?

 

That would make sense, since we also have some missions, which require certain numbers of damaged module so it would be easier to track one's progress.

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6 minutes ago, JapLance said:

 

Sorry, but you're completely wrong. Overpenetrations do 10% damage and have their own symbol, and is nothing like the OP explains in his post.

 

According to developers, these are penetrations to modules that cause module damage, but not enough to break it (typically, main gun turrets) so you can't see the greyed icon popping up. My opinion is that they have no clue on what's going on.

 

 

 

It can also be penetrations against ships that have layered armor. HE shell impacts on the outer layer and explodes but only penetrates 1 layer even if this layer is only 1mm thick. This counts as a penetration with 0 damage. It mostly affects HE shells against things like french cruisers but it can also affect AP shells in some situations.

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Oh you mean the shells shatter, so to speak? Happens a lot with Akitsuki's HE (which are absolute rubbish BTW, only use them to get a fire, then switch back to AP).

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31 minutes ago, BrettMRC said:

I've noticed a few times lately, mostly whilst playing Hood, that I get a shell penetration ribbon but cause no damage at all with that shell.

Is this an intended game mechanic?

 

Apologies if this question has been posted before.

 

Will try and get a screen grab next time.

Most likely either the above explained modulepenetration (the extra icon only pops up if the module is destroyed (or crippled if it is the engine or the rudder).

You also get a pen with no damage if you pen the (torpedo-)armourbelt but not the armour under it.

 

 

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7 minutes ago, RAHJAILARI said:

Oh you mean the shells shatter, so to speak? Happens a lot with Akitsuki's HE (which are absolute rubbish BTW, only use them to get a fire, then switch back to AP).

Well, technically against a layered armor the AP shell shatter on the 2nd layer but the client reports back a penetration with 0 damage because it penetrated the outer layer (usually a 25mm torpedobelt or something)

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All this is most interesting and useful. I have so far mostly played DD so all this stuff doesn't really much come into consideration there (barring Akitsuki), but since the Yamamoto Campaign I had to start trying out cruisers and that is a whole different ballgame (not to mention that i often get spotted, citadelled and killed just because I push too much in front as I annoyingly keep forgetting that my spotting range is now 12+km instead of 6 km). This bit certainly helps understand how things work when playing with the bigger boys.

 

Thanks! You all have been most useful mammals...:cap_hmm:

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You might have been shooting at French cruisers, they have troll armour.

Between layers of their double layered armor there is no hitbox. This means that short fuse AP (RN CLs for sure, dunno bout Hood) and HE can register penetration of the first layer and explode between plates, dealing no damage.

And because there is penetration, it gives you penetration ribbon.

 

Seen on YouTube a video in which guy took T5 Baguette and Yamato into training room, fired full broadside of 460 mm HE from point blank range and delt no damage :D

 

I think this is the one:

 

 

Edit: it was Montana, not Yamato and it's in this video at  8:00:

 

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1 hour ago, SomeoneYouKnow2 said:

Well, technically against a layered armor the AP shell shatter on the 2nd layer but the client reports back a penetration with 0 damage because it penetrated the outer layer (usually a 25mm torpedobelt or something)

 

Old torpedo bulges on IJN ships are not part of any compartment and have no HP associated with them. They shouldn't interact with AP/HE shells but do seem to mess things up quite a bit. (Zao is the biggest offender)

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Really? I have some Jap cruiser and BB, they have bulges and it helps? Never actually noticed any effect (but then I have not played them much as of yet). They mitigate also other damage than torps then?

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This is only one side of the medal . In a other Topic they discuss how one Pen from one Bismarck at a z23 can do double pen dmg . Actualy Wg staff confirmed something is wrong with thier Dmg calcs .

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To be correct it is not always wrong but sometimes ( and they know about that prob and are working on it to fix it as Octa said very focused and hopefully for the next patch  ) it get lets call it hickups .

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[KL]
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Not to flog a dead horse but the last few weeks have been horrible, in high tier ships at least one pen out of every salvo does 0 damage and even on more than one occasion around 4 shell hits 3 pens 1 over pen and 1k damage, where did the rest of the damage go? this was in a musashi against a montana at around 7k range, and it's even worse at long range, you get one or two hits, one bounces the other pens and 0 damage, just left there thinking fffffffffffffffffff!

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6 minutes ago, jhnshep said:

Not to flog a dead horse but the last few weeks have been horrible, in high tier ships at least one pen out of every salvo does 0 damage and even on more than one occasion around 4 shell hits 3 pens 1 over pen and 1k damage, where did the rest of the damage go? this was in a musashi against a montana at around 7k range, and it's even worse at long range, you get one or two hits, one bounces the other pens and 0 damage, just left there thinking fffffffffffffffffff!

 

They wanted to "fix" that lately by having penetrations deal atleast 10% damage (like an overpen) on saturated areas, modules and torpedo bulges (last one would have been horrible) But they didnt go through with it... Not sure why they couldnt only implement damage on saturated areas or modules and not to torpedo bulges, i think that would have fixed those 0 damage penetrations.

Other than that, i totaly agree that its no fun having a salvo deal 1k damage while you have 2-3 penetrations...

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22 minutes ago, jhnshep said:

where did the rest of the damage go?

Modules. Main batteries (and barbettes). Secondaries. AA mounts. Possibly some fully saturated areas. That's what you hit

 

 

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