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An_Ancap

Anyone knows what is good part of upgrading japanese cruisers?

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So I have played this game for a while and since Japanese ship is on the left of lobby I play only that nation. Sometimes I switch to Britain/America if I die quick or game lasts long.

When I upgraded my cruiser at level 1, 2, 3 - it was just like "Okay, more power, stronger enemies - it is a deal now!". But since I upgraded ship to level 5 it feels more like "Damn, my ship sucks, I can hardly fire one barrage and I die". Can anyone explain me this? I agree, basic stats are upgraded. Now let's see how it looks
 

Quote

Ship - Kuma (IV) / Furutaka (V)

Artilery 180 degree rotation - 22 s. / 33 s.

Artilery reload - 7 seconds / 22 s.

Artilery max damage - 2700 / 4500

Torpedoes max damage/cooldown/number of guns/range - 10833/42 s./2/7km / 14600/72 s./1/6km

Hitpoints - 23 000 (6 - 65 cm armor) / 28 300 (6-105 cm armor)

It clearly shows one thing - in time of Furutaka's one barrage that can deal up to 4500 Kuma would shoot 3 barrages that'd deal up to 8100 damage. So, if Kuma would be fighting Furutaka - Furutaka'd need 6 barrages (that is - 132 seconds) and Kuma'd need  11 barrages (That is - 77 seconds).  Not to mention that Furutaka's 6 shots in 22 s. have less chance to hit citadel in comparision to 33 shots in 22 s. of Kuma's...

 

Isn't upgrading ship supposed to upgrade ship? Or am I missing something? 

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Yes and no. Furataka has always been considered a weak ship, in the past more so than now, but it is a necessary step for the continued progression of the IJN cruiser line. You will find the same going from T6-7 on USN cruisers. Not sure what you mean about the citadel thing, as you are going from 6" to 8" guns, which obviously have better AP penetration.

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All cruisers die when a mosquito flies by. Get used to it and learn how to survive, for example by watching guys like Flamu on youtube.

 

 

43 minutes ago, PolskaZasmazka said:

It clearly shows one thing - in time of Furutaka's one barrage that can deal up to 4500 Kuma would shoot 3 barrages that'd deal up to 8100 damage.

Furutaka's 203mm has 10 mm better HE penetration than Kuma's 140mm (HE pen is calculated by dividing gun caliber by 6). Meaning Kuma's HE is more prone to shattering and dealing no damage at all, something you ignore. IFHE changes situation a bit, but very few ppl at tier IV will have it.

43 minutes ago, PolskaZasmazka said:

So, if Kuma would be fighting Furutaka - Furutaka'd need 6 barrages (that is - 132 seconds) and Kuma'd need  11 barrages (That is - 77 seconds).  Not to mention that Furutaka's 6 shots in 22 s. have less chance to hit citadel in comparision to 33 shots in 22 s. of Kuma's...

 

If Kuma was fighting Furutaka, Furutaka would load AP and cit pen Kuma from the front.
Also, citadel hits are not random rolls as you seem to think. They depend on shot placement and shell's penetration. So Furutaka's 203mm have actually higher chance of penetrating the citadel armor.

As for the whole IJN cruiser line: it's good. Some ships feel like they could use very slight buffs (Aoba for example), but nothing game breaking. And it's still line i enjoy the most (RN CL's are close behind).

PS. Your confusion seems to come from lack of knowledge about game's mechanics. Best solution to that is either getting someone on voice com to explain everything to you or watching good players on youtube.
 

31 minutes ago, Flid_Merchant said:

Yes and no. Furataka has always been considered a weak ship, in the past more so than now, but it is a necessary step for the continued progression of the IJN cruiser line.

 

At the moment she's just Aoba with less range and better torp angles. If you ask me she is at least equal if not better than Aoba.

 

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Using AP on anything appears to be useless since even if I hit them with all 6 they will - as I wrote - repell with 33 of their shots without any problem and deal higher % of my HP than it is even possible with one barrage for me. Other thing is potential of critical citadel hit. It is not quite big chance since I have 6 shots - even 1st tier ship will deal more if it hits citadel than any shot of any tier is capable if he doesn't

I mean hitting citadel is pure luck - even if you are not moving and so does target and you aim perfectly the place of citadel, having x-ray with armor of that ship in 2nd hand - 3 shots of 4 I am not able to hit citadel and half of shots goes to water. However, sometimes it happens that I hit 2 at once or hit few times a row. Or not hit anything for lodsa shots. 

Just played a game and had situation just like this - lower tier of ship (Cruiser) kept shoting me, dealing hilarious ammount of damage with each shot, yet he twice (2/30+ shots) hit citadel. Though I hit his citadel once - I was dead and couldn't even attack him 2 times because of this retarded cooldown time.

Appears like I will hardly come back to this ship, after like 12 games games I still can't even achieve XP needed for 1st barrage upgrade and I hardly get 10-20 hits whole game (every other ship appear to always hit citadel with their strategy of sinking ships with hot iron) and so far I achieved 3 citadel hits

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Ever since the Furutaka got her refit she is very good. Learn how to kite and when to enforce trigger discipline (ie stop shooting and go into camo) to stay hidden. 

 

Then just burn fools.

 

Broadsiding omahas and phoenixes, plus Kuma are citadels if you get them as well. If you dont have much experience, stick to HE when fughting the rest of your CA breathren.

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Ive made some modifications to my first post in which i adress some of your claims, i suggest you refresh and reread it :D
Also note that in Furutaka you get in matches with T7 ships, due to WG brilliant decisions you rarely are the highest tier. You have to adjust your gameplay accordingly.

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Furutaka is pretty okay for a t5 ship now. The MM screws this ship, not the ship itself.

 

The Aoba on the other hand is just weak for her tier and could use some love by WG. All other t6 cruisers are just better.

 

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I was expecting something like that IJN cruisers before Furutaka are pretty much Furutaka 2, Furutaka 3, Furutaka 4 and such, more guns at T7 but that's pretty much it so except Mogami with 155 mm guns and until you reach Zao it's like playing the same ship over and over and over again 4/5 tiers which is a boring as hell of a grind to be honest.

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21 minutes ago, SHDRKN4792 said:

I was expecting something like that IJN cruisers before Furutaka are pretty much Furutaka 2, Furutaka 3, Furutaka 4 and such, more guns at T7 but that's pretty much it so except Mogami with 155 mm guns and until you reach Zao it's like playing the same ship over and over and over again 4/5 tiers which is a boring as hell of a grind to be honest.

True. And 155mm Mogami needs IFHE, which is useless for 203mm guns. So if you don't want to respec your captain you will use 203mm on her too. At least i would.
But they are still fun if you ask me, but could use some love. Would be nice to see Type 3 shell implemented in one way or another. Would give them something uniqe, like every other line has.

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46 minutes ago, HyoukaYukikaze said:

True. And 155mm Mogami needs IFHE, which is useless for 203mm guns. So if you don't want to respec your captain you will use 203mm on her too. At least i would.
But they are still fun if you ask me, but could use some love. Would be nice to see Type 3 shell implemented in one way or another. Would give them something uniqe, like every other line has.

Mogami doesnt need IFHE. Its hilarious with it, but it doesnt "need" it.

I unlocked the 203's, found them mediocre and the grind tedious. Put the 155 back on and had lots of fun. 

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5 hours ago, PolskaZasmazka said:

Using AP on anything appears to be useless 

I mean hitting citadel is pure luck

Just no on both of those statements. The 203 mm guns of the Furutaka are great for a tier 5 ship, because you can simply overmatch any other tier 5 and even most tier 6 cruisers resulting in solid AP damage. Aiming under the turrets and beneath the smoke stacks will grant you citadels if you manage to land shells in that area.

 

Also your HE fire chance is by far the best, so targeting battleships is no issue, as you can easily set fires on them and farm easy damge.

 

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furutaka it's a fun ship but not for grinding, your 22 s slavo will decrease to 15 s. after you make a little tweaks, and no, kuma brawling a furutaka will not end good for the kuma. two or three rounds and it's over for kuma.

My first battles with aoba doesn't went peachy at all, especially after I went back to kuma (host your ship mission)

Kuma it's a love letter to us, players.

But will be even worst with Myoko, 45 s turrets transverse speed (sight).

brawling days, bullying dd's, burning bb's down to a crisp  are postponed.

I hope that Mogami will be something else, please.

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3 hours ago, Butterdoll said:

But will be even worst with Myoko, 45 s turrets transverse speed (sight).

brawling days, bullying dd's, burning bb's down to a crisp  are postponed.

I hope that Mogami will be something else, please.

If you want to brawl you picked the wrong cruiser line. IJN cruisers are medium to long range ships with nuclear HE and can slow down anything wanting to charge into you with their good torpedoes.

 

And as for the bold part, what? The Myoko is a beast of a ship, with solid armor, great guns, torpedoes and is pretty fast. And with a base 17% fire chance, great HE damage and 10 guns burning down BB's is the easiest thing in the world, not to mention a spotted DD will really be punished as long as you can hit it.

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If you do not like the 203mm of the Furutaka then you're not going to enjoy the IJN Cruiser line as I believe almost every ship thereafter in the line uses it...

 

As others have said it's a medium range HE spammer, it can AP at closer ranges but you don't really want to be brawling.

 

Learn to hold your fire until you think you're not being watched otherwise you'll be deleted fast.

 

Also I'd like to point out the Atago is the ultimate power in Cruisers up and including T8...

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1 hour ago, ollonborre said:

If you want to brawl you picked the wrong cruiser line. IJN cruisers are medium to long range ships with nuclear HE and can slow down anything wanting to charge into you with their good torpedoes.

 

And as for the bold part, what? The Myoko is a beast of a ship, with solid armor, great guns, torpedoes and is pretty fast. And with a base 17% fire chance, great HE damage and 10 guns burning down BB's is the easiest thing in the world, not to mention a spotted DD will really be punished as long as you can hit it.

 

 

yeah, with kuma I don't have any problem, it's an outstanding ship. It can do it all effortless.

gridding furutaka was fun at the beginning, great armour, agile but with that turret transverse speed it's not for close range, keeping the distance as you talked about ,got me, and it was painful, boring and dry as the desert by the end. but I will keep it to play in days without the pressure to grind to the next ship. (very nice ship).

furutaka would serve as a brawler if the turret traverse was  faster.

Aoba, not a pleasant start, it will be painful if the next hull don't put it better.

 

Mioko, let's see, seems a nice ship. apart of the transverse speed.

 

 

furutaka's guns pierce everything, that isn't a barge, tier 5, t6.

furutaka the impeller.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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24 minutes ago, Butterdoll said:

Mioko, let's see, seems a nice ship. apart of the transverse speed.

The traverse speed will be bad all the way to tier 10. And again, if you want to brawl and think it is boring sitting a bit further back then probably reconsider your choice of going up the IJN cruiser line.

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9 minutes ago, ollonborre said:

The traverse speed will be bad all the way to tier 10. And again, if you want to brawl and think it is boring sitting a bit further back then probably reconsider your choice of going up the IJN cruiser line.

 

I'm well aware of that, I know that I already seen the best of that line.

But if I want to enter the Japanese campaign, I've got to try to reach Mogami, minimal requirements stuff.

either wise I would stay at t6 max. And having a lots of fun.

But, thank you .

 

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On ‎12‎-‎08‎-‎2017 at 8:32 PM, PolskaZasmazka said:

Using AP on anything appears to be useless since even if I hit them with all 6 they will - as I wrote - repell with 33 of their shots without any problem and deal higher % of my HP than it is even possible with one barrage for me. Other thing is potential of critical citadel hit. It is not quite big chance since I have 6 shots - even 1st tier ship will deal more if it hits citadel than any shot of any tier is capable if he doesn't

I mean hitting citadel is pure luck - even if you are not moving and so does target and you aim perfectly the place of citadel, having x-ray with armor of that ship in 2nd hand - 3 shots of 4 I am not able to hit citadel and half of shots goes to water. However, sometimes it happens that I hit 2 at once or hit few times a row. Or not hit anything for lodsa shots. 

Just played a game and had situation just like this - lower tier of ship (Cruiser) kept shoting me, dealing hilarious ammount of damage with each shot, yet he twice (2/30+ shots) hit citadel. Though I hit his citadel once - I was dead and couldn't even attack him 2 times because of this retarded cooldown time.

Appears like I will hardly come back to this ship, after like 12 games games I still can't even achieve XP needed for 1st barrage upgrade and I hardly get 10-20 hits whole game (every other ship appear to always hit citadel with their strategy of sinking ships with hot iron) and so far I achieved 3 citadel hits

 

 

Man, if you lead a little better your target (deflection shot) you will see an improvement, under the left line of your crosshair, there's a number, if the target is parallel to you is that number you got to give in lead, starting in mid ship, between the smoke stacks or underneath them, you got to count with the speed, angle, distance and direction of both ships, but that it's latter. you might see ships vanishing with a salvo of your furutaka, or be very punished by your furutaka.

DD's and BB's are the exception, lead more in dd's, lead less in bb's (that's the main idea)

Don't go close range with your furutaka.  the turrets can't keep up.

the furutaka it's a resilient ship.

It's a different ship, you will be fine. 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Negativvv said:

Also I'd like to point out the Atago is the ultimate power in Cruisers up and including T8...

 

It would be the ultimate Tier 8 cruiser if it didn't have the unfortunate handicap of not being Russian. Very hard to give that title to anything but the Kutuzov which is more than Russian enough to take the top spot.

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Just now, rvfharrier said:

 

It would be the ultimate Tier 8 cruiser if it didn't have the unfortunate handicap of not being Russian. Very hard to give that title to anything but the Kutuzov which is more than Russian enough to take the top spot.

Hmm Kutuzov has become a monster since the rise of IFHE yes but she's a one trick pony. A long range HE spammer. 

 

Atago has almost 360 degree coverage of very hard hitting torps, a 9.1km detection, HEAL and the excellent 203mm flame throwers.


Her only real weakness is the relatively slow firing guns and the fact she's a cruiser with all the weaknesses of armour that come as standard. 

 

I'm of course bias as Atago gave me my first Rank 1... 

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She would be limited to being a long range HE spammer if not for her smoke and general excellence! Assuming you've checked for radar ships and German DDs/Lo Yangs, of course, you can smoke up pretty much anywhere on the map and spew forth fire and fury without much worry other than the occasional blind fire into the smoke which can be countered by a little bit of moving around. Twice the fire rate and an easier time keeping all turrets on target is a better recipe for both BB BBQ and for brawling with AP in the mid-late game I find. The heal of the Atago also comes very much in handy for that point in the game, but the Kutozov as an all-round package is simply the better cruiser for me.

 

Nothing bad to say about the Atago, love that ship as well, but the Kutuzov is quite frankly monstrously OP.

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On 12/08/2017 at 8:57 PM, PolskaZasmazka said:

So I have played this game for a while and since Japanese ship is on the left of lobby I play only that nation. Sometimes I switch to Britain/America if I die quick or game lasts long.

When I upgraded my cruiser at level 1, 2, 3 - it was just like "Okay, more power, stronger enemies - it is a deal now!". But since I upgraded ship to level 5 it feels more like "Damn, my ship sucks, I can hardly fire one barrage and I die". Can anyone explain me this? I agree, basic stats are upgraded. Now let's see how it looks
 

It clearly shows one thing - in time of Furutaka's one barrage that can deal up to 4500 Kuma would shoot 3 barrages that'd deal up to 8100 damage. So, if Kuma would be fighting Furutaka - Furutaka'd need 6 barrages (that is - 132 seconds) and Kuma'd need  11 barrages (That is - 77 seconds).  Not to mention that Furutaka's 6 shots in 22 s. have less chance to hit citadel in comparision to 33 shots in 22 s. of Kuma's...

 

Isn't upgrading ship supposed to upgrade ship? Or am I missing something? 

 

I might suggest go watch Yuro's youtube video "How to Furutaka", it's still valid.

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