Is fire damage OP?

[Xevious_Red]

If you main cruisers, and you feel that fires are OP, and that cruisers can easily sit in the open and pew pew because the battleships can't hit anything, why do you do significantly more damage/kills in a battleship?

 

For example;

Your most played BB: Tirpitz. 51k damage

Your most played HE spammer: MK. 30k damage.

 

Both are tier 8. 

So of the two, you somehow think the one you do the least in is the OP one. 

 

Btw things you can equip that reduce the impact of fire;

-premium DCP (put out fires more often)

-Premium heal (heal more times, faster cool down)

-DCP 1 equipment (makes DCP last longer)

-20% shorter fires flag

-20% more healing flag

-equipment for 5% less chance of catching fire

-equipment for 15% shorter fires

-jack of all trades skill (5% less cool down on DCP/Heal)

-flag which gives 5% faster cooldown for consumables (dcp/heal)

-skill which gives 10% faster cool down on DCP

-skill which gives 15% shorter fires (these all stack btw)

-skill whixh gives you +1 heal

-skill which gives you 10% less chance of catching fire AND 3 fires max

 

Things you can equip that reduces the impact of a stray shell going through your citadel at any angle;

-exactly nothing.

[Kartoffelmos]

1 hour ago, Xevious_Red said:

Things you can equip that reduces the impact of a stray shell going through your citadel at any angle;

 

Rudder shift mods and the concealment mod/skill, obviously!

 

As for damage, BBs are naturally at the top since they are the only reliable counter to other BBs (well, carriers as well, but...), as well as a specialised cruiser-counter and a DD-lolcounter.

 

Now, for the funny tangent as to why battleships enjoy a lower win rate than cruisers (if I remember correctly from all the "BB confirmed not stronk"-posts):

1. They have the most firepower
2. They have the highest survivability

So, what will generally happen when the players of this class do not go where they are needed but instead stray as far away from the objectives as possible?

 

To summarise: fires are fine, if you get burned down you have either failed your team or overextended (not mutually exclusive).

[darkstar73]

6 hours ago, Culiacan_Mexico said:

Really?  How did you come to that conclusion?

 

6 hours ago, Culiacan_Mexico said:

Really?  How did you come to that conclusion?

Don´t you think so? 

[Culiacan_Mexico]

1 hour ago, darkstar73 said:

...But everyone have the right to say what they want without being jumped on :)...Don´t you think so? 

The right right to speak does not include the right to be taken seriously.   Derision or criticism of others opinions/therories is fairly common.

 

"God does not play dice with the universe." 

 

 

[P2Win]

As a master cruiser player...Sometime I think fire chance/damage is dumb...Those BB that repair 2 fire and only to get burn down by another 2 fire...plus the hard 8k salvo they can't repair is lul.

[Armorin]

8 minutes ago, P2Win said:

As a master cruiser player...Sometime I think fire chance/damage is dumb...Those BB that repair 2 fire and only to get burn down by another 2 fire...plus the hard 8k salvo they can't repair is lul.

 

Interesting to learn how dumb I can be sometimes. I largely think being a flame wreck is largely a psychological feeling, as usually it is accompanied by a pelting by multiple ships. How many fires does it take to offset a heal consumable?

[P2Win]

14 minutes ago, Armorin said:

 

Interesting to learn how dumb I can be sometimes. I largely think being a flame wreck is largely a psychological feeling, as usually it is accompanied by a pelting by multiple ships. How many fires does it take to offset a heal consumable?

 

Not sure, I believe it's 1 heal. But the problem is a lot of BB players repair 1 fire only to get burn down by 3 other one full duration plus the alpha damage from the HE shells are typically all that's needed to overpower their healing consumable...

[Armorin]

Just now, P2Win said:

 

Not sure, I believe it's 1 heal. But the problem is a lot of BB players repair 1 fire only to get burn down by 3 other one full duration plus the alpha damage from the HE shells are typically all that's needed to overpower their healing consumable...

 

What I was actually thinking about was fire damage rate vs heal damage rate. So how many fires would it take before popping a heal to offfset the fire damage, then perhaps pop a DCP when the heal has finished for those with poor fire fighting skills. Is there a standard length of time for fighting fires without DCP and other skills/signals that negate the length? (For those who have no option but to stay and fight).

[P2Win]

3 minutes ago, Armorin said:

 

What I was actually thinking about was fire damage rate vs heal damage rate. So how many fires would it take before popping a heal to offfset the fire damage, then perhaps pop a DCP when the heal has finished for those with poor fire fighting skills. Is there a standard length of time for fighting fires without DCP and other skills/signals that negate the length? (For those who have no option but to stay and fight).

 

I really think it depend on the situation. Like if you're surrounded by cruisers it may be wise to pop your heal as soon as there is a second fire on you because if you repair you will get burned down with no heal/dcp for the entire duration of fire. Plus you have to be worried about torps and their flooding damage too. It also depend on how much HP you have. Generally the higher your HP the more you can play around and take fire damage but...if you're like 20K HP...I would instant DCP/Heal and try to go undetected.

[Aotearas]

Holy mods, this topic is still open? Is the forum staff not using the premium locking consumable?

 

33 minutes ago, Armorin said:

 

Interesting to learn how dumb I can be sometimes. I largely think being a flame wreck is largely a psychological feeling, as usually it is accompanied by a pelting by multiple ships. How many fires does it take to offset a heal consumable?

 

Depends on the ship's max HP, its' repair party efficacy and fire duration reduction skills/equipment.

 

A fire burns for .3% maximum HP every second for a base duration of 60 seconds (18% of your ship's max HP in total damage for a single full duration fire). You can reduce the fire duration with captain skill (Basics of Survivability: -15% fire and flooding duration), upgrades (Damage Control Modification 2: -15% fire and flooding duration) and signal flag (don't know the name of it by the top of my hat, but it's another -20% fire duration (flooding duration is a another signal flag)), so the maximum you can reduce it by is 50% (so 30 seconds duration amounting to 9% of your ship's max HP in total damage from a single fire).

 

Rule of thumb is as P2Win said, roughly 1 Damage Repair Party charge for a full fire duration (base duration, if you're specced for full fire reduction you can guesstimate one heal per two full fires), though anyone with enough time and motivation at hand could calculate the exact values and put them in relation to the ship's heal potential for an exact answer (per ship that is).

 

The important part is that fires are light damage and thus 100% repairable. Even if you suffered four full duration fires at one point during a game and one heal couldn't repair it in one go, you can still repair all that back as your heal comes off cooldown for another go.

[mtm78]

23 minutes ago, Aotearas said:

Holy mods, this topic is still open? Is the forum staff not using the premium locking consumable?

 

This is a complex mechanic, like switching ammo on DD's. I am not sure it's possible to manage things that complex   

[Darth_Glorious]

Rules of thumb :

- 1 fire : let it burn for most of the time, if your HP < 15%, put it down

- 2 fires: if your remaining HP >30%, let it burn. If < 30%, put it down

- 3 fires, if your remaining HP >60% let it burn . If < 60%, put them down

- 4 fires is extremely rare, but if it happens, put them down at soon as possible

- 1 heal can counter 1.5  fires.

- You can expect an average of 1 fire from each HE salvo from BBs, Jap and French CAs  if you put the fires down too soon. If there are CV with DBs, you can expect an average of 2 fires for each successful dive bombing attack.

[Capra76]

7 hours ago, Kartoffelmos said:

Now, for the funny tangent as to why battleships enjoy a lower win rate than cruisers (if I remember correctly from all the "BB confirmed not stronk"-posts):

1. They have the most firepower
2. They have the highest survivability

 

Nope.

 

Any difference in WR from 50% usually comes at the expense of other ships of the same class, Khaba maintains a very high WR becasue it's so much stronger than the other T10 DD, not because it's stronger than any CA or DD.

 

T10 BB all have a WR close to 50% because they are very closely balanced against each other, Hakuryu has a very high WR because Midway is bad.

[Kartoffelmos]

I think you misunderstood the point I was trying to make. It's not about battleship being superior to other classes per se, but that the class is a high-impact, low-difficulty (relatively speaking) performer. As such, it is easy to lose a game in a battleship if you do not contribute in a battle. Take tier 6 for example. If maplesyrup is correct in the win rate department, the Fuso, New Mexico and Bayern have terrible global win rates during the last week (46,7 to 48,3 %) while the premium battleship with a lot less players perform well.

 

Is the tier 6 premium battleships P2W then? No, it is just the fact that a lot of terrible players are dragging the win rate down (otherwise we would have an even 49-50 WR on all). As such, it is as you wrote: the win rate is only relevant if there is a large(r) deviation.

 

In any case, after checking the statistics of cruisers as well, the trend is the same (terrible win rates, but insignificantly less crap) so I guess the point about worse win rates is rather moot.

[P2Win]

23 minutes ago, Kartoffelmos said:

I think you misunderstood the point I was trying to make. It's not about battleship being superior to other classes per se, but that the class is a high-impact, low-difficulty (relatively speaking) performer. As such, it is easy to lose a game in a battleship if you do not contribute in a battle. Take tier 6 for example. If maplesyrup is correct in the win rate department, the Fuso, New Mexico and Bayern have terrible global win rates during the last week (46,7 to 48,3 %) while the premium battleship with a lot less players perform well.

 

Is the tier 6 premium battleships P2W then? No, it is just the fact that a lot of terrible players are dragging the win rate down (otherwise we would have an even 49-50 WR on all). As such, it is as you wrote: the win rate is only relevant if there is a large(r) deviation.

 

In any case, after checking the statistics of cruisers as well, the trend is the same (terrible win rates, but insignificantly less crap) so I guess the point about worse win rates is rather moot.

 

All premiums are P2Win. I'll give you 2 good examples...Missouri/Belfast.

 

*Please don't flame me, I am pointing out the obvious*

[mtm78]

Just now, P2Win said:

 

All premiums are P2Win. I'll give you 2 good examples...Missouri/Belfast.

 

*Please don't flame me, I am pointing out the obvious*

 

Emden is officially a premium ship. Just like Mikasa. Just like Tachibana. Just like Smith. Just like Marblehead. Just like Prins Pudding. And I don't think people told me Harekaze is p2w even while I feel it's the most interesting recent premium. 

 

There are still a lot of 'mediocre' premiums as well. 

[Kartoffelmos]

I think that was bait .

[mtm78]

Of high quality I guess  

[darkstar73]

4 hours ago, Culiacan_Mexico said:

The right right to speak does not include the right to be taken seriously.   Derision or criticism of others opinions/therories is fairly common.

 

"God does not play dice with the universe." 

 

 

 

4 hours ago, Culiacan_Mexico said:

The right right to speak does not include the right to be taken seriously.   Derision or criticism of others opinions/therories is fairly common.

 

"God does not play dice with the universe." 

 

 

Oki. Understand what you mean. :) 

[Aotearas]

1 hour ago, P2Win said:

 

All premiums are P2Win. I'll give you 2 good examples...Missouri/Belfast.

 

*Please don't flame me, I am pointing out the obvious*

 

Krasny Krim.

[_DeathWing_]

"Is fire damage OP?"

 

No

 

 

[Dominico]

OP the fire damage can be a bit crazy. But only really when you have 3 or 4 fires which means either you did something wrong or you have a lot of enemy focusing you (which you did something wrong). 

 

Without it cruisers would have little ability to damage you other than torps, so it gives them something to do at decent range.

That said i do think its a bit too high ticking up on 3 or 4 fires and unrealistic, but meh its a game. If it didnt happen you would have so much crying from other players. They did give you some skills to minimise it and as others have said its best to learn how to use the repair, dont repair 1 fire unless you are out of danger and save it for 2 or 3 if you are under fire. Repairing 1 fire when being shot at is a terrible move. Also as others have said its repairable damage. I would say its rare that you get into serious trouble with fire as a Battleship player, but for a new player it can be a shocking and a bit stupid experience to see this gameplay effect.

 

As for the guy who mentioned HMS Sheffield... it didnt sink through burning. It sank in high seas as they tried to tow it back to base! No ship has ever sunk from burning except a few galleons. 

[Dlia_Katyushi]

I have created this topic in response to this. Have fun.

[lup3s]

18 hours ago, Yankmyplank said:

cruisers can simply dodge salvos from 12km

 

?

 

If you can't hit a Cruiser at 12km with your Battleship, you should try and improve your aiming.