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aidenthedestroyer

Aircraft Carriers. Whats wrong with them?

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Short Disclaimer, Many of you who would be reading this, Take this how you want to but Im just getting this off.

Aircraft Carriers. What comes to mind? The most used type in most WW2 battles. The most strongest and best Team Player, Support type ship.

Aircraft carriers have been in the game since the Beta Days. Uptil now only 2 main lines are there and that too only with the Americans and the Japanese because the other trees are still getting built slowly.

If you look at it, Aircraft Carriers did not really recieve many updates geared to them (over my career as a WoWs player that is). Ive played this game since the 6.0 update so im not really a seasoned person yet, but I have a huge interest in carriers as a class. Lets take a look at the current lines in game. American carriers, AS majors. Japanese Carriers, Strike Majors. Not much to say bout em. Technically, if an AS american carrier were to go up against a Japanese one, the result, by technical default would favour the American rather the Japanese, yet the Japanese beats up the American everywhere (Player wise that is). What am I implying? Im saying that, American Carriers are THE most "unbalanced" so to say till tier 9. How is it unbalanced? Well at tier 4 its fixed but from tier 5 onwards you have the oppurtuniy to be either a Plane eater and a CV dream killer, or an enemy CVs dream and let him eat up your planes  but you being able to put out some more damage. Now what I mean by unbalanced. If the enemy is AS, then you dont really stand a chance if the player is good. if he is Strike, he would be smart with his aircraft and would most probably strike you immediately, taking you out would mean that he has control of the sky. Japanese Carriers are more balanced in loadouts.Defensive capabilities and strike in one package. these are just the standard ones. If premium ones were to go against each other, its totally different. tier 7. Saipan vs Kaga. Saipan has tier 9 aircraft distributed on 220 while Kaga has tier 6 ones distributed in 221. Obviously the Saipan player has the major advantage.  Tier 8, Enterprise vs Graf Zeppelin (soon) Big E has tier 7 aircraft which can be buffed by upgrades from tier 9 and 10 slots. GZ has tier 8s but really bad fighters. The Enterprise would take the cake here but this is still WiP. Overall Premium Carriers are unbalanced If against other carriers or normal ships. Thus there is a major need for a carrier Rework, and Im NOT a Battleship player asking for this. No Im a Carrier player asking for this. WG, the amount of negligence put into carriers means that either you dont KNOW how to work on them or you dont WANT to. The current state of carriers in the game isnt really good. Youve got one side where people love AS, and the other side where people worship Strike. Thus, leading to America vs Japan. (Im gonna trigger many here now...) If you dont know how to balance them, just SCRAP carriers as a class. But if you are willing to work on carries, Start with the loadouts. US Carriers boast Air Supremacy but lack Damage, while the Japanese are just really all rounders. How bout making them both the same?

US Carriers- Changes to Flight decks mod 2 (mk5,6,7,8,9,10 mod 2)

Tier 5 - MK5 MOD 2  

Current - 012

Change - 111

Tier 6 - MK6 MOD 2

current - 012

change - Im not sure

Tier 7 - MK7 MOD 2

Current - 013

Change - 112

Tier 8 - MK 8 MOD 2

Current -013

Change - 112

Tier 9 MK9 MOD 2

Current 113

Change 122

Tier 10 MK10 mod 2

Current 113

Change 222.

As you can see, the changing of the squad arrangement would at least enhance the amount of players using these fight decks. Tier 10 Midway has 222 due to the fact that she has a large Hangar and would be able to work with it.

Anyways, If you agree/disagree, do tell.

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They "said" they will rework USA decks.....and introduce AP bombs.   

 

2-2-2 Midway would be op.....also is have no problem with IJN=torpedos and USA=bombs......but they need to rework decks in a way like it was ment

 

In strike setup IJN dominate dmg but USA dominate fighter.....right now ijn dominates fighters and dmg in strike setup what is just plain stoopid. 

 

Reduce number of planes to 5....give one more fighter to Essex and Midway in strike setup, give lex 2-1-1 in strike on 2-0-3.....

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Just now, 15JG52Adler said:

They "said" they will rework USA decks.....and introduce AP bombs.   

 

2-2-2 Midway would be op.....also is have no problem with IJN=torpedos and USA=bombs......but they need to rework decks in a way like it was ment

 

In strike setup IJN dominate dmg but USA dominate fighter.....right now ijn dominates fighters and dmg in strike setup what is just plain stoopid. 

 

Reduce number of planes to 5....give one more fighter to Essex and Midway in strike setup, give lex 2-1-1 in strike on 2-0-3.....

I dont really look at 222 midway OP. A good Hakuryu Player can outmatch it. he fact about IJN dominating in Fighters and dmg is why im trying to make MOD 2 decks more used and more powerful on US CVs because right now IJN CVs just face each other in battle.

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2x6 torp with narrow spread of USA. torps and slihtly increased dmg will kill almost any DD in onestrike also it would made 10 torpedos to BS plus 2 bomber strikes while have dominate fighters. 

 

 

Midway was like that and it had jet planes. It dominate EVERYTHING :)

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1 minute ago, 15JG52Adler said:

2x6 torp with narrow spread of USA. torps and slihtly increased dmg will kill almost any DD in onestrike also it would made 10 torpedos to BS plus 2 bomber strikes while have dominate fighters. 

 

 

Midway was like that and it had jet planes. It dominate EVERYTHING :)

true but getting used to the American drop spreads and the torp arm time is quite hard. Especially if you are used to the Japanese one

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1 minute ago, aidenthedestroyer said:

true but getting used to the American drop spreads and the torp arm time is quite hard. Especially if you are used to the Japanese one

Well to me it is easyer to it with USA. You can drop them closer to ship and they have much smaller spread so from 6 with ease you hit 4 while with ijn you need to drop them from longer range to hit more than 2 per squad so they start convergate

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1 minute ago, 15JG52Adler said:

Well to me it is easyer to it with USA. You can drop them closer to ship and they have much smaller spread so from 6 with ease you hit 4 while with ijn you need to drop them from longer range to hit more than 2 per squad so they start convergate

I dont know how you find it easy. I find it very hard when I had indy I actually sold the ship because it was bland. Y`see I like to deal damage and thus in American carriers I try to make do with strike but In Indy I couldnt really get a proper grip and had to stay with stock

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5 minutes ago, aidenthedestroyer said:

I dont know how you find it easy. I find it very hard when I had indy I actually sold the ship because it was bland. Y`see I like to deal damage and thus in American carriers I try to make do with strike but In Indy I couldnt really get a proper grip and had to stay with stock

 

Well Saipan has eaven worst patern and arming time so needs drop from longer range :)  no idea. For me USA has easier drop but there are 2 big problems

 

1. No cross drop so killing DD is harder

2. Everybody focus your sinle TB squad so 6 never aproach ship. 2-3 dies in approach while ijn have 2-3 squads and focus fire don't criple you so hard

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Just now, 15JG52Adler said:

 

Well Saipan has eaven worst patern and arming time so needs drop from longer range :)  no idea. For me USA has easier drop but there are 2 big problems

 

1. No cross drop so killing DD is harder

2. Everybody focus your sinle TB squad so 6 never aproach ship. 2-3 dies in approach while ijn have 2-3 squads and focus fire don't criple you so hard

Thats why its harder to deal dmg in US CVs where currently you need to rely on Dice Bombers (I said DICE on purpose cause they are RNG related)

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44 minutes ago, aidenthedestroyer said:

Thats why its harder to deal dmg in US CVs where currently you need to rely on Dice Bombers (I said DICE on purpose cause they are RNG related)

 

I call bs on this. People say stock USN CVs can't do alot of damage, yet why is my avg damage for tier 5 to 7 usn cv way higher than the avg server damage when I only play stock on then? Even with the lexi i've only been playing strike but more team orientated than damage orientated. Still higher avg damage compared to server. As rng as dbs are, with 21 1000 pd bombs and the ability to do dot damage its not that difficult to do alot of damage with them. And those USN Tbs have the ability to 1 strike DDs and low tier CAs. Thats why i said Bogue was a good USN CV trainer in the other thread. You focus solely on manual dropping 1 torp squad only instead of having multiple damage dealing squad. U miss u dont do damage u hit you get rewarded with devastating strikes. With the 1 fighter squad u train how to strafe in order to make up against the multiple squad a zuiho has.

 

On a side note i wish lexi gets a 1/1/3. Too bad im almost done with my lexi grind. For Essex and Midway i think having 2/1/3 for strike would be a good balance. 2 usn tb squad is kinda crazy tbh cause nothing would be able to shoot them down if they're stacked since they already have more health per squad than an IJN one. With the Hakuryu they only have 4 planes=less health=easier to shoot down.

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1 hour ago, pra3y said:

 

I call bs on this. People say stock USN CVs can't do alot of damage, yet why is my avg damage for tier 5 to 7 usn cv way higher than the avg server damage when I only play stock on then? Even with the lexi i've only been playing strike but more team orientated than damage orientated. Still higher avg damage compared to server. As rng as dbs are, with 21 1000 pd bombs and the ability to do dot damage its not that difficult to do alot of damage with them. And those USN Tbs have the ability to 1 strike DDs and low tier CAs. Thats why i said Bogue was a good USN CV trainer in the other thread. You focus solely on manual dropping 1 torp squad only instead of having multiple damage dealing squad. U miss u dont do damage u hit you get rewarded with devastating strikes. With the 1 fighter squad u train how to strafe in order to make up against the multiple squad a zuiho has.

 

On a side note i wish lexi gets a 1/1/3. Too bad im almost done with my lexi grind. For Essex and Midway i think having 2/1/3 for strike would be a good balance. 2 usn tb squad is kinda crazy tbh cause nothing would be able to shoot them down if they're stacked since they already have more health per squad than an IJN one. With the Hakuryu they only have 4 planes=less health=easier to shoot down.

hmm true yea now that you mentioned it, at higher tiers those TBs will be harder to shhot down but I didnt know this because I only have Indy so I end up losing 2-3 torps just coming in the approach

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21 minutes ago, aidenthedestroyer said:

hmm true yea now that you mentioned it, at higher tiers those TBs will be harder to shhot down but I didnt know this because I only have Indy so I end up losing 2-3 torps just coming in the approach

You will lose 2-3 whole time on any tier. On higher tier maybe all of them if you dont spot on time Minotaur wit 8.5 km AAA in smoke :)

Funny thing or not so funny. Not on a single tier USN CV wins over IJN one in Winrate. Higher we go difference is larger for IJN

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6 minutes ago, aidenthedestroyer said:

hmm true yea now that you mentioned it, at higher tiers those TBs will be harder to shhot down but I didnt know this because I only have Indy so I end up losing 2-3 torps just coming in the approach

 

I thinks its more of a comparative thing. If you take 1 USN TB squad and 1 IJN TB squad and drop against Nagato, the USN TB will come out of it alive with 1 or 2 planes loss but the IJN has a chance of losing the whole squad. The concept applies to the whole line. A Hakuryu can only 1 strike a Yamato if its stacks all 3 tb squad together and drop at the same time. If it sends in 1 TB at a time to drop on the Yamato it will lose all of its planes (and also why cross dropping on anything not a DD is a bad idea. Against DDs you need a cross drop to trap them. Against other class you need your planes  to survive and drop on them) That is also why the 2 TB Midway is so strong. In a situation where both CVs stack their TB squad, Haku has 3 squad of 4 while Midway has 2 squad of 6. You can focus fire and probably take down more of the Haku squads if you're good enough since 4 planes per squad=less health=easier to shoot down. But Midway 6 planes per squad=more health=harder to shoot down so they can do whatever they want more so over a Hakuryu.

 

An example of how hardy USN planes can be. I stacked 3 squadrons of lexi db (7 planes per squad, so 21 in total) together and dropped it on an Atlanta using defensive fire (dun ask why i did it lol). On the way in I lose 2 planes and on the way out another 3 planes. So in that 1 engagement with the Atlanta using defensive AA i loss only 5 out of 21 planes. Thats why my lexi can drop on tier 10 BBs without excessive loss. Stack them together, drop the bombs on a yamato, set fire on him while destroying his AA then send TB to finish it off.

 

If you want to progress up the USN CV line you have to learn to plan your drops and pick targets wisely. Its like playing a game, IJN CV is like the easy mode of playing CV where you're easily rewarded because of the loadout you have. On the otherhand, USN CV is the hard mode, where unless you play correctly, you will not be rewarded. Have a look at this:

 

 

Stranger's Midway game using a 2/1/2 loadout. Lol I'll probably need like a 2/2/3 to reach that damage but yeah its not that USN CVs can't do alot of damage, its just that they have to be played slightly differently compared to IJN CVs given their loadout.

9 minutes ago, 15JG52Adler said:

Funny thing or not so funny. Not on a single tier USN CV wins over IJN one in Winrate. Higher we go difference is larger for IJN

 

Wierd thing is I actually perform way better in my USN CVs I think lol.

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22 minutes ago, pra3y said:

 

I thinks its more of a comparative thing. If you take 1 USN TB squad and 1 IJN TB squad and drop against Nagato, the USN TB will come out of it alive with 1 or 2 planes loss but the IJN has a chance of losing the whole squad. The concept applies to the whole line. A Hakuryu can only 1 strike a Yamato if its stacks all 3 tb squad together and drop at the same time. If it sends in 1 TB at a time to drop on the Yamato it will lose all of its planes (and also why cross dropping on anything not a DD is a bad idea. Against DDs you need a cross drop to trap them. Against other class you need your planes  to survive and drop on them) That is also why the 2 TB Midway is so strong. In a situation where both CVs stack their TB squad, Haku has 3 squad of 4 while Midway has 2 squad of 6. You can focus fire and probably take down more of the Haku squads if you're good enough since 4 planes per squad=less health=easier to shoot down. But Midway 6 planes per squad=more health=harder to shoot down so they can do whatever they want more so over a Hakuryu.

 

An example of how hardy USN planes can be. I stacked 3 squadrons of lexi db (7 planes per squad, so 21 in total) together and dropped it on an Atlanta using defensive fire (dun ask why i did it lol). On the way in I lose 2 planes and on the way out another 3 planes. So in that 1 engagement with the Atlanta using defensive AA i loss only 5 out of 21 planes. Thats why my lexi can drop on tier 10 BBs without excessive loss. Stack them together, drop the bombs on a yamato, set fire on him while destroying his AA then send TB to finish it off.

 

If you want to progress up the USN CV line you have to learn to plan your drops and pick targets wisely. Its like playing a game, IJN CV is like the easy mode of playing CV where you're easily rewarded because of the loadout you have. On the otherhand, USN CV is the hard mode, where unless you play correctly, you will not be rewarded. Have a look at this:

 

 

Stranger's Midway game using a 2/1/2 loadout. Lol I'll probably need like a 2/2/3 to reach that damage but yeah its not that USN CVs can't do alot of damage, its just that they have to be played slightly differently compared to IJN CVs given their loadout.

 

Wierd thing is I actually perform way better in my USN CVs I think lol.

Thats why USA lost 2x6 TB.....and they were jets on Midway :)......total domination :).

 

We missed big part of problem too.......reload times. Because of 4 planes TB of ijn reloads much faster so you can have eaven 2 strikes more in game than USA.

 

And last problem is HE saturation dmg.....I checked my average dmg per bomb on top USA bombs 10 k ones......and average nonfire dmg per bomb is patetic 1300. So 10k bombs on average do 1300 dmg....epic.....it does not happen to torpedos. 

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I dunno this loadout is just based on what I would see from the basis of a Japanese carrier player. I know for a fact that the USN actually did have 2 torps on their carriers from tier 5 in beta so It would be cool but I guess its too powerful. But the USN CVs definately need one fighter squad in their strike loadouts so that they dont get raped by IJN CVs. Well I guess the torpedo squadron thing will be left up to WG (if they even plan on doing this?). But WG pls do add 1 fighter for US strike. About Indy. I dont know what could be good for strike just because her stock is 111 and strike is 012 so strike cant be 111, any suggestions?

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15 minutes ago, aidenthedestroyer said:

I dunno this loadout is just based on what I would see from the basis of a Japanese carrier player. I know for a fact that the USN actually did have 2 torps on their carriers from tier 5 in beta so It would be cool but I guess its too powerful. But the USN CVs definately need one fighter squad in their strike loadouts so that they dont get raped by IJN CVs. Well I guess the torpedo squadron thing will be left up to WG (if they even plan on doing this?). But WG pls do add 1 fighter for US strike. About Indy. I dont know what could be good for strike just because her stock is 111 and strike is 012 so strike cant be 111, any suggestions?

1-1-1 all the way

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7 hours ago, 15JG52Adler said:

a) We missed big part of problem too.......reload times. Because of 4 planes TB of ijn reloads much faster so you can have eaven 2 strikes more in game than USA.

 

b) And last problem is HE saturation dmg.....I checked my average dmg per bomb on top USA bombs 10 k ones......and average nonfire dmg per bomb is patetic 1300. So 10k bombs on average do 1300 dmg....epic.....it does not happen to torpedos. 

 

a) In return for survivability. But yeah I agree maybe WG should decrease the reload time abit.

 

b) I'm actually happy with the 1000 pd bomb because they do actual damage compared to the 500 pd ones which can't do much.

 

4 hours ago, 15JG52Adler said:

Why? What mod have to do with deck you chose?

 

He's referring to the loadouts. Remember in game when you have to pick your loadout? They're known as "mods" if I remember correctly like the MK6 MOD2 is the strike loadout if I'm not wrong for Inde.

 

6 hours ago, aidenthedestroyer said:

 About Indy. I dont know what could be good for strike just because her stock is 111 and strike is 012 so strike cant be 111, any suggestions?

 

I would say play 1/1/1 on both Inde and Ranger. That is because at those tiers its still ok to strike with 1 tb or db given the lower tier ships you'll play against and the higher tier ones. However at tier 8 with the Lexi, a 1/1/1 is not feasible with all that AA going on, especially when you end up in tier 10 matches so swap to 0/1/3 so that you can do actual damage. That or 2/0/2 since you can stack 2 DB together but definitely not 1/1/1. Your planes will just melt and die.

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I played:

independence 1-1-1  -> best loadout for me

works great against any setup the enemy carrier has

 

ranger 0-1-3 -> mixed feelings 

one word: saipanfightersfromhell 

 

lexington 0-1-3-> best loadout for me

against another strike lex: farm farm farm

against a carrier with 2 figher squads: [in theory] you have to distract him/her with max 2 bomber squads, which still enables you to strike with the 2 remaining squads 

had great fun in her

 

essex 1-1-3-> best loadout for me

I think this is the best loadout, but the ship itself is garbage. 

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