Team's expectations over CV

[Captain_Bloodless]

Hello,

i'm here to discuss what a team can expect from a CV in a T8 game.

I only own a Lexi and after playing some games i think strike is WAY BETTER than AS because every other CV in game has 2 fighters squadrons and if you face a competent player he will try to protect his bombers with his fighters locking down yours.

In this situation he will apply more damage than you to his targets and when your team starts losing 1-2 BB early you are probably doom to lose.

On the other side a strike setup can put weight on the table, usually i try to 1st blood a DD on the central cap with torpedo bombers @ start and then lure the fighters away from my dive bombers aiming a lonely BB on a side of map.

If enemy has fighters always try to lure them over strong AA mates, if enemy is strike Lexi start a damage rush to help your team pushing and possibly spotting him.

While i loved to snipe enemy CV with Hiryu, now @ tier 8 i find very situational a CV snipe since defensive fire last 2 mins, improved AA mounts, bigger distance to travel, more hp. Of course if enemy is strike Lexi u can trigger defensive fire with 1 squadron a keep rest of planes parked out of AA bubble for 2 whole mins... but no really efficient.

Back to the topic, what do you think is legit to expect from a CV @ T8?

Because i took 2 reports from 2 genius in 2 different games.

 

1) AS setup ---> 52 planes killed and 129k damage

2) Strike setup --> 240k damage and missed kraken by matter of secs, we lost before time

 

Ok numbers don't talk by themselves, sometimes RNG bless u. Manual drop can score 3k or 14k damage. Keeping empty bombers around to spot DD or torpedo waves is often critical even if you lose travel time and these are all things i do when possible.

But honestly when u punch 240k damage into enemy ships, 4 kills, high caliber, witherer in less than 20 mins... am i misjudging CV's role?

 

P.S. the report came from a pensacola asking for air support.

[Corvi]

Dont bother with the potatos reporting you. When i play my strike Lex i get reported nearly every game by some noobs who whine that i have no fighters, yet end up obliterating the enemy team with sheer dmg and carrying the game for them .. 

[Tungstonid]

I think you summed up nicely what to expect from a CV. It very much depends on the loadout.

 

On the one hand you should help your team as much as possible (damage, spotting, air support if possible etc), on the other hand you are not anyone's servant and have to run as soon as they cry for help and you have better things to do or can't make it in time.

[Xevious_Red]

You'll get reported regardless.

 

If you somehow manage to avoid being reported for not having your fighters in 12 different places at once, or not having fighters, or not killing the full health Des Moines, or for "stealing" someone's kill, and if you manage to avoid being reported by the enemy team for killing/spotting/strafing, then you'll get reported anyway for playing a carrier because some dullard has decided its easy mode.

[rvfharrier]

Strike load-outs are inherently selfish in so far as they maximize your damage output at the total expense of your ability to shield your team from the enemy carrier and spot for them. Hypocritical when you then go on to use your team mates' AA to shield your planes from enemy fighters. There simply shouldn't be load-outs available to choose which don't have any fighters.

[WingedHussar_Adler]

well you have one big problem, LEX is just bad teamplay ship....it is bad ship all over compared to its contrapart.

 

in LEX you only can do DMG....so strike is way to go....but you lack so much more what IJN can provide.....so normaly peoles are angy when they got raped or permaspoted by IJN cv from other side and you can not help them......but it isn ot your foult....it is ship.

 

and if you play AS...it would be eaven worst.....he would outdmg you, and you could not eaven do your part of dmg

 

main teamplay component that LEX misses is:

 

1 - scout - 6 squads in air, air superioriti means permaspot because nobody can contest fighters of IJN

2 - air dominatio - prrotection of fleet.....he can shut down much of your strike force, and can protect dds 

3 - DD killer - you are not, well if RNG gives you luck you can kill dd with bombers, he does need luck, he needs good crosdrop

[RAHJAILARI]

What! You did not deliver miracles! What an outrage!

 

Clearly you are to blame for everything.. Hehe!

 

But seriously, nevermind that rubbish. people sometimes like to blame someone else for misfortunes, since they are not man enough to accept any themselves (female players exempted, of course) there are some real wack'os in this game, i can tell you. There are also always whiners and blamers and they are best left ignored.

 

I once got reported in my Akizuki by an enemy Bismarck for first torpedoing him from stealth (who does crap like that?) and then rather more unsportingly also setting him on fire soon after (sadly he did not survive the experience and sunk). That's just how the cookie crumbles. So keep on ticking and BTW it is a good thing that you explained the bit about your tactics - I'll be well reminded to avoid you, if ever I find you in the other team, eh (yeah, i like to play DD)?

 

Always did suspect that some CV players indeed try to hunt down the DD first (which is a good plan BTW).

[Exocet6951]

I grinded the Indy last month, and in 34 battles, I managed to lose every single karma point I had.

Strike someone => rage in chat
Hit that same person again with a DB hanging around for easy fire damage farming => reported
I didn't have to say anything in chat, other than "I'm striking this person" or "I'm out of planes, sorry"

 

At the same time, I'm getting reported by by own team because I'm not magically destroying a blob of 7 ships.

 

 

So yeah, CV is most of the time a thankless job in which no matter what you do, you're getting raged at.
It's a bit like being tech support.
It's your fault if your team gets crushed, and you're useless if the enemy team gets crushed.

[Skyllon]

4 hours ago, Captain_Bloodless said:

Team's expectations over CV

 

Who cares.

Just play the objectives as well as you can and most important, enjoy it in the process. It is supposed to be fun, not some sort of horrible chore.

[Torped1ne]

I usually get blamed in my ruijo (tier 6 jpn) and of course reported for don't do something or i case of the enemy for doing it too well ,yes still talking about tier 8 game, and often you meet that write in chat "cv sky cancer" and pour all his report on you, it is annoying even knowing well how online gaming work, so all i can say is ,i can feel it mate

[RAHJAILARI]

Well, a good CV play is critical to team's success in any game. So naturally expectations are high, but of course a CV alone cannot win any game and sometimes we got also new CV players, that is a given. My take on it is that as long as there are noob and stupid BB, DD or Cruiser players a loss is possible and sometimes even likely... People are only entitled to expect our own level of competence from other players and griping about if's and but's is just an absolute bore anyways.

 

I of course, assume everyone here is a Unicum-level player at all times, so no worries. Hehe!

[pra3y]

I dunno about you guys but so far I've only been reported once or twice for playing strike lexi but complimented more than 5 playing one. I guess its how you play your strike lexi. I usually use my tb as bait and scout at the start of the game and also scout with my dbs when possible. Scouting seem to pacify my teammates compared to AA i think, especially in the tier 9 and 10 matches where most ships have way better aa. Had a recent match where i fed most of the the enemy's fighters (AS CV) to my team's mino while spotting for him and got complimented even though he died 3/4 way through the game.

 

Tbh i think alot of people are either used to seeing strike lexi or have played the lexi and know of its problem. When people complain I just tell them to blame WG for giving lexi such a crap loadout. Those guys dont report me for some reason also so in the end I guess is how you play?

 

Edit: You can still play support playing strike. Prehaps not direct aa support but scouting and baiting are also support. Don't play strike with a one track mind of just dealing damage only. If yr teammate needs a dd to be scouted out, help them or better yet sink it first before dealing with the other ships.

[jss78]

CV games often suck because you're the brunt of much of the whining. People basically expect you to be everywhere. Five seconds later the melodrama starts. Spot that, delete this, fighters there. Please be in 6 different places at the same time -- with 3 squadrons. Can't do that? fu cv noob plz uninstall.

 

Also a lot of guys are passive-aggressive towards their CV from the first minute of the game.

 

It'd be GREAT for the game if the in-game chat was only activated after you've done 100 games in EACH ship class. Would really cut down on ridiculously dumb whining.

 

2 hours ago, rvfharrier said:

Strike load-outs are inherently selfish in so far as they maximize your damage output at the total expense of your ability to shield your team from the enemy carrier and spot for them. Hypocritical when you then go on to use your team mates' AA to shield your planes from enemy fighters. There simply shouldn't be load-outs available to choose which don't have any fighters.

 

I agree, but the problem with Lexington is the "balanced" loadout is awful. 1/1/1 is great at ... tier 6. At tier 8, Lexington is pretty much the poster child of what's gone wrong with USN CV's.

 

Ranger and Lexington are so unattractive that I simply stopped at Independence, which gets a reasonable, well-performing balanced loadout. Got Saipan and Enterprise to throw that captain in when I feel like it.

[RAHJAILARI]

Yeah, you can get reported even if you play the best frigging game ever and try to help everyone out and then suddenly get mysteriously complimented when you thought you had a real crap game. I just had a series of 31 real flunky games in which I managed to get absolutely nothing done in my DD, but my karma still increased by 10 points, go figure, I thought I was going insane or hallucinating or something.

 

Sometimes also, eventhough your own scores / damage done has suffered, if you have compromised it just to help out a team mate and they actually notice it (no guarantees there) they might compliment you anyway.

 

People may or may not see your good deeds during the game (because they are busy with their own) and it cannot be helped so do not obsess about it. It is just an opinion poll after all, not like you will get banned or prosecuted for that anyways.

 

Of course, granted that it is generally more pleasing to feel appreciated.

[pra3y]

How I play my strike lexi

[El2aZeR]

9 hours ago, Captain_Bloodless said:

am i misjudging CV's role?

 

No, you're not. The inherent problem here is that you're fundamentally limiting yourself by playing USN CVs. A CV's role in this game is to spot, contest air superiority and deal damage. With USN CVs you're usually giving up at least one of these crucial roles and/or perform all of them far worse than an IJN CV can.

 

I once got reported for refusing to strike an Iowa with my Hiryu. Or another time for not lending AA support to a friggin' Des Moines (who proceeded to murder every single strike plane sent his way, but reported me anyway). You're gonna get reported when playing CVs. It's a sad inevitability you'll have to deal with.

[Mangrey]

yeah ... i got the Tir 6 US CV .... and untill the fix the US line im not going feather... the only thing i expect from a CV is that he help out in any way  he can..... Im a CV player my self so i know the limitations. some times i wich I was able to stalk a CV like the normal ships so i can se what he is going with the planes(to learn and help ofc)

 

mang  

[_Teob_]

I will say this though, I did recently get annoyed with a friendly CV when I died while he was hovering planes right next to me. I was in a Grozo and I had already killed 17 planes so it's not like I wasn't trying (I think that killing all those planes made the enemy CV angry with me or something) and I just needed 10 more seconds until my def AA was back up. I saw the strike coming (courtesy of friendly ships) and I was on like 4k health... but I also saw the friendly fighters so I thought I'd be fine.

 

But I swear it looked like the friendly CV waited until I was bombed into oblivion before he strafed them all basically. His planes had been hovering in the same spot for more than 2 mins at that point. And I did ask politely in chat for help and told him the enemy CV is coming for me.

 

Playing CV is tough and, especially at high tiers, it's very frustrating for everyone not in a CV to be at the "mercy" of a random plane god that might or might not be good enough to counter the enemy plane god. It makes people feel helpless and that results in a lot of anger. And skill differences are higher among CVs than any other class as far as I can tell (on top of the high skill floor and ceiling inherent to the class)

 

To be fair, if you get two good CV players in Hakuryus then it's a pure DPS race between them. It's almost funny when a couple of people recognize the enemy CV player and they start "yelling" in chat telling everyone to stay together, and that lone warriors will get killed, provide DDs with AA etc. and invariably you get people sailing off ignoring all the warnings because they simply haven't met a really good CV before. It's almost like a horror movie "Tipitz, come back! Don't go there, it's certain death!" 

[Strikerman1]

You are playing Lexi exactly right, it is just a limited ship compared to the Shokaku or Enterprise. I played through the Lexi and it was a pain, I stopped US CVs for half a year afterwards. But the Midway is finally a nice ship to aim for after recent changes to strafe-out-mechanics.

 

But please dont take the reports of some BB players serious. They mostly have no idea how to play the game, other classes or strategic objectives and sail around like a drunk babys. By dealing damage, preferably to DDs, you are doing way more than by protecting all these useless BBs, sailing alone at the map border, as they do not understand to play together. There is just one CV on each side, so all you do is noticeable by others. When there are 5 BBs in the 40% winrate region in your team, who have no clue what they are supposed to be doing, especially how easy it is for them to stick together and make any CV strike impossible, is hardly noticed by themselves. They just sail away to some random map border, do not care about map or cap control, letting their DDs and Cruisers get killed and then they start crying about their team while they protect A1.

[HatsuzukiKaiNi]

Whatever you don't do in carriers is your fault by most player reckoning, even if you play absolutely perfectly someone will probably complain they haven't seen you do anything.

 

Strike lexington is a magnet for it because the only carrier it can reasonably counter is another Strike Lexington and then it's just a damage race which is irritating to be against, honestly almost the entire US CV line needs a fix and i'm not even sure where i'd start.

[Amon_ITA]

As a player with a decent experience in all classes except carriers i can tell the op quite well what are the expectation of other players about the Cv that's playing with them.

 

First of all every offensive action made by the Cv to distant enemies is like doing nothing, at least in the opening phases of the match. There is lots going on and when checking the map you always look at what's happening around you. So you often don't realize what's happening far away. 

 

For the same reason, you appreciate plane support around you. Fighters spotting enemies dds near caps or defending attacking ships from enemy planes. Dive bombers or torpedo bombers attacking enemy ships directly engaged.

 

Another thing that in my opinion the Cv player should bear in mind is that air cover in the form of spotting promotes aggressive behavior. If you want the team to push, spot the place the you want them to go. No one likes to advance without knowing what's waiting for them. 

 

As the match goes on, and the ships become less players can become progressively more aware of what's happening in the totality of the map and understand better what's really happening. 

 

In particular I think that during the end game a request to cooperate made by the Cv player is always appreciated and it's easy to find people eager to listen.

[Captain_Bloodless]

Regarding balance between CV the only complain i have is about enterprise.

Shokaku 2+2+2 if fair enough since their fighters are weak and in matter of seconds u can lure them on friendly AA or even down 1-2 planes with rear gunner.

Enterprise is another story, i found there are 2 types of Enterprise's player:

1) Potato that bough it without any clue of CV gameplay and those are easy to deal even with strike lexi

2) Hardcore CV player that invest $ on OP CV since they know AP bombs are a bit imba and those will make you cry even on AS lexi, best u can do is deny them kills.

Honestly Saipan and Enterprise are ruining game balance more than any good belfast/kutuzov/perth player.

RN AP spammer can be countered with angling and radar/hydro, IFHE premium HE spammer mentioned are harder to deal but still balanced.

Only counter to saipan/enterprise is probably lemmingtrain which often result in comedy loss anyway.

[Gnomus]

3 hours ago, Strikerman1 said:

You are playing Lexi exactly right, it is just a limited ship compared to the Shokaku or Enterprise. I played through the Lexi and it was a pain, I stopped US CVs for half a year afterwards. But the Midway is finally a nice ship to aim for after recent changes to strafe-out-mechanics.

 

But please dont take the reports of some BB players serious. They mostly have no idea how to play the game, other classes or strategic objectives and sail around like a drunk babys. By dealing damage, preferably to DDs, you are doing way more than by protecting all these useless BBs, sailing alone at the map border, as they do not understand to play together. There is just one CV on each side, so all you do is noticeable by others. When there are 5 BBs in the 40% winrate region in your team, who have no clue what they are supposed to be doing, especially how easy it is for them to stick together and make any CV strike impossible, is hardly noticed by themselves. They just sail away to some random map border, do not care about map or cap control, letting their DDs and Cruisers get killed and then they start crying about their team while they protect A1.

 

Strike always and doing lot of damage is not necessary a good thing. Dealing damage to DD's and engaged enemies is a good thing, but not all CV players going for strike do that.

 

I have seen numerous times how enemy is melting in front of our flank, but then they simply disappear out of spot. You know there are 1-3 destroyers below 10km of you, but unseen. There are few beaten CA's 13-15km from you retreating, but you can't see them. All easy kills if only spotted. You should be pushing fast to relieve other flank where enemy has superiority, but doing that risk a lot because all the torps and flame throwers doing strikes from behind islands and you and your fellows never see a single enemy even if taking fire all the time. Same time CV is striking some high hp BB 20km from closest enemy to rack up his stats so he can show of how well he did while team failed.

 

It all comes down to your skill, your teams skill, enemy CV skill and enemy team skill. If you are superior to enemy CV you can do well with strike and out DPS him. If enemy CV is superior he can either out DPS you or just shut you down. If your team (or even some ships) is good then spotting and defending them can be worth much more than strike or two. On the other hand if your team is just bad then no matter how well you spot for them or try to cover them from enemy they will find a way to fail.

 

For a skilled CV players strike might be good option, as it works even with bad teams, and they generally have skill superiority that allow them to out play enemy CV even without fighters. For someone not so good strike might still let them have nice numbers, but they will fail their team and lose battles because they strike wrong targets (ones giving lot of damage, but unimportant for the battle) and do not do supporting work.

 

I have nothing against strike CV's that know which ships need to sink and when they need to use, or even sacrifice, planes to spot enemy to help their team instead of farming damage and sinks (that's how good CV's work). I have problem with mentality that always go for strike and do maximum damage while disregarding rest of the fleet and their needs (that's how bad CV's work after reading good players explaining how AS is wrong and strike is way to go). 

[Estaca_de_Bares]

You'll probably be reported by someone no matter what you do or which CAW (carrier air wing, i.e. flight control mod) you use. This is exacerbated if your team-mates don't see fighters of yours in the air, because their latent hope of having air cover in time crumbled is by far the main reason for the wrath against USN T6-8 strike CVs. IMHO, as an IJN-only CV player right now (so this is a pure subjective impression out of the opponents I've faced), USN AS is the right way to go for an average player if your gameplay is team-oriented, although it limits yourself into spotting, air cover and forcing ships to use their damage control, which reduces your damage dealt and thus hardens the grind. Strike can deal a lot more damage with limited losses if, and only if, the player is skilled enough and doesn't go for the single devastating strike at once (it doesn't matter which carrier line you follow, not being in a hurry and timing the attacks is an important skill).

 

When I'm not the one playing carriers I tend to consider that there won't be air cover whoatsoever and I'll have to deal with the incoming strikes all by myself. This saves me a lot of rage and frustration in the first place, and allows me to be in a better mood if our CV actually wipes out the menace. The carrier guy is the one in charge of evaluating the pros and cons of sending the planes to one location or another after all, so I'm nobody to discuss his decisions unless they seem blatantly wrong (and the worst one is by far not putting your planes in the air when all squadrons are ready to go, followed by not moving the ship at all).

 

About flight controls, 1/1/2 strike CAWs for Ranger and Lexington instead of the current 0/1/3 would be nice, because actual CVs shouldn't be without some fighters. The problematic one here is the Independence due to having only 3 squadrons, but she's a CVL, so it can be argued that this class was used mainly for ground attack during the later stages of the war, thus no need to carry them (air supremacy was already attained by the big sisters) in her strike CAW. Let's consider it this way: IJN mod 1 is 1/2/2, then mod 2 is 2/2/2 (increase in fighters for better aerial survivability in engagements), and USN mod 1 is 1/1/1, so it would be more logical for mod 2 to be 1/1/2 (increase in SDBs for more striking capabilities) instead of 0/1/3 (the extra SDB squadron compared to the former doesn't improve your damage that much further, and you're potentially -and in many cases it is so- giving the royal sceptre in the air to the enemy in exchange).

 

Salute.

[BIG6969]

The only times I play strike loadout in any US CVs are In coop games vs bots or those PVE missions. In random, hell no. No fighters = no air control = loss. 

 

Yes, you might find yourself lucky facing a potato and doing a tons of dmg in one match. But, you are relying too much on favourable MM and any competent player will effectively kill all your striking power with acceptable losses or damage to allied ships. 

 

Please do your future teammates a favour, and stop using the strike loadout. Imagine you play in a BB, CL and getting nuked by enemy CV because your own CV player, regardless his skill, is a strike US CV. 

 

Or keep playing strike and let me farm more xp and credits from strike cv players like you :)