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Sgt_Hakeswell

Invisi Fire

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I thought this had been removed from the game now but I have been noticing for a while now ships firing from out in the open yet not being visible.  Notice I said out in the open so not in smoke or not behind cover.  I have even happened to be looking straight at the point the fire is coming from and it has taken 2 or 3 salvos for the firing ship to appear.  Have I missed something or are WG sneaking invisi fire back into game.  Has anyone else noticed this?

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This is due to one of two possibilities:

 

1. The game often takes up to 2 seconds for the client to render a ship (most noticable when a ship comes around an island inside your detection range but you cannot see it for a couple of seconds despite the client telling you that you have been detected).

2. The ship is firing from beyond his range at you because you are sailing towards him so you will sail into his shells but he will remain undetected. He will, however, suffer a dispersion penalty as he does not have target lock.

 

I use the second option quite frequently to get in a couple of early salvoes before being detected.

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Once you fire, your firing range becomes your surface detectiability range. So invisifire from open isn't possible anymore.

 

(You can try to mimic it by sailing away while enemy chases you, so you can land your shells without having the enemy on gunrange and thus, not getting spotted. Though doing this you can't get the target lock on enemy, thus leading into worse accuracy.)

 

 

Overall, we'd need a replay to be able to try to explain what happened, but the real, old style open water invisifire just doesn't exist anymore and it's not coming back.

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5 hours ago, xxNihilanxx said:

This is due to one of two possibilities:

 

1. The game often takes up to 2 seconds for the client to render a ship (most noticable when a ship comes around an island inside your detection range but you cannot see it for a couple of seconds despite the client telling you that you have been detected).

2. The ship is firing at you from beyond his range at you because you are sailing towards him so you will sail into his shells but he will remain undetected. He will, however, suffer a dispersion penalty as he does not have target lock.

 

I use the second option quite frequently to get in a couple of early salvoes before being detected.

I think there might be a third possibility:

3. That they have stealthily introduced stealth firing back into the game :cap_fainting:

...

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No, but actually I think there could be a third explanation:

There's a distance, beyond which ships are not rendered in the client. That distance depends on the ship you're sailing in and is not very large for DDs for example. So it should in principle be possible for long-ranged cruisers and BBs to be shooting at a DD from beyond the distance at which they would be rendered for that DD, so effectively stealth firing. Now if they actually also manage to land their shots from that far away, they must be on mighty good terms with the RNGesus :cap_hmm:

Were you sailing in a DD, OP?

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I guess the situation described by the OP could also happen if there's a smoke between him and the ship firing at him that wasn't noticed because smokes don't render in binocular vision.

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1 hour ago, Teob_VG said:

I guess the situation described by the OP could also happen if there's a smoke between him and the ship firing at him that wasn't noticed because smokes don't render is binocular vision.

 

Smoke (at long range) doesnt always render even out of binocs.

 

I've had situations where I can't see a smoke cloud ~20km away while in normal 3rd person view, and nor could I see it wben fully zoomed in. When I half zoomed in it appeared.

 

This is probably due to settings/hardware though

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29 minutes ago, Xevious_Red said:

 

Smoke (at long range) doesnt always render even out of binocs.

 

I've had situations where I can't see a smoke cloud ~20km away while in normal 3rd person view, and nor could I see it wben fully zoomed in. When I half zoomed in it appeared.

 

This is probably due to settings/hardware though

 

I dunno, I am playing with all graphical settings maxed out so I suspect that smoke rendering is as good as it gets for me. I don't think I've seen smoke not rendering on open water at any range. I may be wrong though.

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It could be possible that the person shooting at you actually isn't spotted but you are. Position is key to this because if you make sure you're not spotted by the enemy in other places of the map and someones smoke is obscuring you from the person you're shooting at you can shoot at him from open water and still not be detected.

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41 minutes ago, Teob_VG said:

 

I dunno, I am playing with all graphical settings maxed out so I suspect that smoke rendering is as good as it gets for me. I don't think I've seen smoke not rendering on open water at any range. I may be wrong though.

Theres a couple of graphical oddities from running lower settings. For a while (now patched out thankfully) you couldnt see the cap marker bouys unless you were zoomed in, or right on top of them.

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Hm, weird. I always thought that this game was made for potato PCs.

 

 

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10 hours ago, WolfGewehr said:

Once you fire, your firing range becomes your surface detectiability range. So invisifire from open isn't possible anymore.

 

(You can try to mimic it by sailing away while enemy chases you, so you can land your shells without having the enemy on gunrange and thus, not getting spotted. Though doing this you can't get the target lock on enemy, thus leading into worse accuracy.)

 

 

Thats not true. You can lock on targets outside your shootingrange when they are sailing towards you. Thus invisiblefire and be accurate.

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3 minutes ago, ForlornSailor said:

 

Thats not true. You can lock on targets outside your shootingrange when they are sailing towards you. Thus invisiblefire and be accurate.

 

Not as far as I know you can't. You can get a lock if you switch to torps but not with guns.

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17 minutes ago, xxNihilanxx said:

 

Not as far as I know you can't. You can get a lock if you switch to torps but not with guns.

 

I did prove this when WG introduced the change to invisible fire: You can see that on 15,0 / 15,1 km the König still is locking on to me - outside of his range. Also does not get detected while shooting. It would be even clearer, if I would straight chase the König. We did another test where I had a Budyonny and a Fuso was chasing me. There I could lock on 16,8/16,9 km while my range ofc is  only 16,6 km.

 

 

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I always found this works well to my advantage, when running away in my Nurnberg (and with that ship, you tend to run away a lot) while firing outside my actual range towards an oncoming ship (well, the once chasing you should be slower than Nurnberg, which tends to be a problem). Of course, you have to maintain the distance just right or it won't work and they might even get rather unsporting and be able to shoot back (shudder).

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1 hour ago, ForlornSailor said:

 

I did prove this when WG introduced the change to invisible fire: You can see that on 15,0 / 15,1 km the König still is locking on to me - outside of his range. Also does not get detected while shooting. It would be even clearer, if I would straight chase the König. We did another test where I had a Budyonny and a Fuso was chasing me. There I could lock on 16,8/16,9 km while my range ofc is  only 16,6 km.

 

 

 

That doesn't show anything of the sort. Every time you have target lock your shells are able to hit the target, therefore it is within your gun range. You do understand that, in many cases, the numbers displayed in game are only shown to one decimal point so are not entirely accurate? If you have target lock then you are in range to hit the enemy.

 

Show me a video of you firing from a stationary ship with target lock at a stationary ship and not reaching the target. It won't happen.

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Im not open when i fire in the video thus invisi firing. And i also have a lock on the target. And if u say "therefore it is within your gun range", then my detection is lower as my gun range obviously.

Ofc in a real match this tends to be almost impossible, and this was purely done for showing how BBs could invisifire after the stealthfire removal and couldnt have done it before.

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2 hours ago, ForlornSailor said:

Thats not true. You can lock on targets outside your shootingrange when they are sailing towards you. Thus invisiblefire and be accurate.

 

2 hours ago, xxNihilanxx said:

Not as far as I know you can't. You can get a lock if you switch to torps but not with guns.

 

11 minutes ago, xxNihilanxx said:

Show me a video of you firing from a stationary ship with target lock at a stationary ship and not reaching the target. It won't happen.

 

All of a sudden changing the setup? Why should I show you something that I never claimed possible. Is it so hard to admit you are wrong? Obviously @RAHJAILARI is using this same mechanic or is he making that up also? Nürnberg is a perfect ship to do it anyway.

 

btw 2 things: You do understand ships are moving? And Detection range equals Shooting range since WG changes the mechanics?

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Isn't it like this: When the max firing range of a ship is 19 km and it has 12 km concealment, and you fire at a target 15 km away, then you're only visible for people within that 15 km? Thought it is something like that now. Depending on the distance you're shooting, not the max distance.

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37 minutes ago, Cyanide_NL said:

Isn't it like this: When the max firing range of a ship is 19 km and it has 12 km concealment, and you fire at a target 15 km away, then you're only visible for people within that 15 km? Thought it is something like that now. Depending on the distance you're shooting, not the max distance.

 

No, your detection blooms to your maximum firing range regardless of who you're targeting and how far away they are. That also includes launching a spotter plane, your detection radius will extend to the new maximum range offered by the plane.

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Detection range is always the same, as the maximum range of your guns, if you are firing them. However, you can theoretically invisi-fire if you are moving away from the target (which is slower than you) at maximum range because you keep popping in and out of view due to moving out of range ahead of him, while he keeps moving towards you and under the falling shells. Also any islands or smoke in-between yourself and the oncoming ship can cause you to disappear from view (even already dissipating smoke can conceal a bit). Also keep in mind, you can actually fire on and hit a target, which is moving towards you beyond your actual gun range (sometimes even if you cannot get your guns locked on it)...

 

This is very difficult to accomplish deliberately though and only occasionally works, so you cannot use it as a consistent tactic, as such. It all depends more on dumb luck and sheer circumstance. Oh yeah and it also requires an enemy player, who is dumb enough to persistently try and chase you down with a clearly slower ship (yes there are some, but sadly, you cannot count on it). So it is a rare occasion indeed...

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