Conceilment for Cruisers: how big a deal is it realy?

[Yaskaraxx]

I am talking cruisers here. Question: did anyone ever TEST the real difference it makes whether one CA/CL capt has CE (conceilment-4 points) or not? Let me explain bit more: I went experimenting with Algerie (T7) first playing it with CE giving it a detect of 11.8 kms and later I played the Algerie without CE = 13.4 conceilment. I noticed NO difference in ships-performance (Algerie even scores better results than even my Indianapolis having 10.8 conceilment, realy). So I got to wonder about: "how big a deal is conceilment realy for a cruiser'? Maybe others with more experience can ecxplain to us if it is realy necessary to invest 4-precious-capt-skill-points in CE?? Plse do base your comment on facts and your own personnel experience. I am realy wondering about it & still testing my Algiers with 13.4kms detect and sofar all goes well (meaning: not realy different from playing it with CE).

 

Maybe: what does an extra 1.6 kms realy offer us: sofar I can see it it only makes positioning yr ship during beginning stage of a battle easier, yes. But is that realy worth 4-skill-points?? At some point of time you wanna get shooting & participate in the ongoing battle and as from that moment your ship will be almost permanently detected. Yes, one can choose to stay undetected more easily, but, that means that one chooses not to participate in the battle during that time and one cannot do any damage nor contribute to the team. So, as from yr very 1st salvo yr ship will be detected anyway (and almost permanently)...so why invest in 4-points CE anyway? We have the CV-planes/DD's/other CA's + their onboard fighterplanes (some have even 2 of em lol) detecting yr ship permanently anyway?

 

Maybe for cruisers, wouldnt it be more productive/better to invest your 4-skill-point in some other (better) capts-skill-option?

 

Anyway: I tested this with Algiers (T7) and I realy didnt notice any difference. When I decided to allocate my 19-points-capt to La Gallissonniere (caus like that ship somewhat more than Algiers) I went experimenting with my new permanent Algiers capt without CE...and at that time I got to wonder: "I dont realy miss my CE...same results and gameplay".

 

So, in short: whats yr opinion based on fact and yr experienced gameplay: with CE compared to NONE-CE?

 

 

[mtm78]

Playing without CE is giving the enemy more chances to catch you broadside as you give up some range to fade out and turn when needed. 

 

You can't use a Charles Martel to judge CE since CM is based around max range he spam anyway ( and it is VERY good at that ). Try playing something like a Mogami with 16km range and tell me if CE isn't useful when you need to turn to evade an island so you can't keep kiting away. 

[WingedHussar_Adler]

One of most important skill for cruisers. 

 

It is as ofensive as defensive important. Stealth saves life. 

 

Only cruiser that can play without it is Moskva because basicly it is BBs:)  

 

But still EVERY single cruiser benefit from it greatly. 

[Armorin]

I haven't got any 4 point skills yet, but for RN CL cruisers, I would think CE would be good for getting up close before opening fire and giving them hell. For cruisers with HE, I wonder if the extended 20% gun range would be a better option. So perhaps vigilance/CE on an RN CL cruiser, DE/AFT for cruisers who can sit back a bit.

[Tyrendian89]

Just now, Armorin said:

I haven't got any 4 point skills yet, but for RN CL cruisers, I would think CE would be good for getting up close before opening fire and giving them hell. For cruisers with HE, I wonder if the extended 20% gun range would be a better option. So perhaps vigilance/CE on an RN CL cruiser, DE/AFT for cruisers who can sit back a bit.

you may want to pay a bit more attention to how AFT works before you spend your points there... this isn't 2015 anymore sadly^^

 

on the main topic: Does depend on the ship in question - Algerie&co certainly need it a lot less than others. But then again, I dont really see any skills that I would prioritize over CE on the french heavy cruisers either...

[mtm78]

3 minutes ago, Armorin said:

DE/AFT for cruisers who can sit back a bit.

 

The only cruisers which benefit still from AFT are very VERY low tier seal clubbers ( if you have DE + AFT at this tier, you're a seal clubber, it's not an accusation just a fact I've done it as well ;) ). 

 

edit:

 

Just now, Tyrendian89 said:

you may want to pay a bit more attention to how AFT works before you spend your points there... this isn't 2015 anymore sadly^^

 

There is a tier 3 cruiser which is an excellent seal clubber with this setup, well at least I been told  

 

[rvfharrier]

It's all about over-extension. Having CE allows you to get closer to the action, making you more useful, without risking putting you all-in and faced with a situation of dead if you turn and dead if you don't. The notion that a cruiser that's not shooting is useless is wrong, it can be maneuvering to a better position or saving crucial health in a clutch situation. A truly useless cruiser is a dead cruiser that didn't know when to stop shooting and stealth up!

 

Just now, Armorin said:

I haven't got any 4 point skills yet, but for RN CL cruisers, I would think CE would be good for getting up close before opening fire and giving them hell. For cruisers with HE, I wonder if the extended 20% gun range would be a better option. So perhaps vigilance/CE on an RN CL cruiser, DE/AFT for cruisers who can sit back a bit.

 

The extended gun range is only effective for guns of 139mm calibre and smaller. All but a select few cruisers use guns of 152mm and larger and so don't benefit from it.

[WingedHussar_Adler]

3 minutes ago, Armorin said:

I haven't got any 4 point skills yet, but for RN CL cruisers, I would think CE would be good for getting up close before opening fire and giving them hell. For cruisers with HE, I wonder if the extended 20% gun range would be a better option. So perhaps vigilance/CE on an RN CL cruiser, DE/AFT for cruisers who can sit back a bit.

Most cruisers on tier 6 -7 plus don't benefit from AFT because their guns are higher caliber :)

Still I prefer AFT on my cruisers for AAA......AFT + CE as 4th skill

[Tyrendian89]

1 minute ago, mtm78 said:

 

The only cruisers which benefit still from AFT are very VERY low tier seal clubbers ( if you have DE + AFT at this tier, you're a seal clubber, it's not an accusation just a fact I've done it as well ;) ). 

 

edit:

 

 

There is a tier 3 cruiser which is an excellent seal clubber with this setup, well at least I been told  

 

 

there's also a pair of T7 "sealclubbers" that can make very good use of AFT... pewpewpewpewpew!

[mtm78]

2 minutes ago, Tyrendian89 said:

there's also a pair of T7 "sealclubbers" that can make very good use of AFT... pewpewpewpewpew!

 

Huh.. which tier seven's have such low caliber main guns? Though if you get around those tiers and up you might as well have AFT to boost your German secondaries and put two Gearings worth of firepower to your battleship  ( with manual targeting ofc ). 

 

[HyoukaYukikaze]

3 minutes ago, mtm78 said:

 

Huh.. which tier seven's have such low caliber main guns? Though if you get around those tiers and up you might as well have AFT to boost your German secondaries and put two Gearings to your battleship  

 

Atlanta and Flint have 127 mm for example.

On topic: I can't imagine plaing Mino or Atago without CE. Tried buiding Takao with rudder shift module instead of concealment and i didnt like it much.
That bit of detectibility makes a huge difference. Even more on Atago, she then has a possibility to stealth torp (not that it is of much use, but it is nice to have options)

[Tyrendian89]

Just now, mtm78 said:

 

Huh.. which tier seven's have such low caliber main guns? Though if you get around those tiers and up you might as well have AFT to boost your German secondaries and put two Gearings worth of firepower to your battleship  ( with manual targeting ofc ). 

 

how dare you forget about Atlanta and Flint! HERESY!

and yes, the Atlanta is a sealclubber - at leat in my hands it bloody well is :D

[mtm78]

Yeah.. true I guess, if you know how to hug your waifu she is a sealclubber for sure

 

I might actually buy one someday.... maybe. Probably not if they want to introduce a choice for destroyers to choose between being able to torpedo battleships or lighter targets ( BEFORE game... so you can't switch in game.... ). 

[Armorin]

Thanks for the advice on AFT. I think most seals play coop anyway. There are some very good players at lower tiers. In fact, it is a more fun game than at higher levels.

I believe 19 points is the max for a captain? I think in most cases, only 1 4 point skill gives a very good use of the skill distribution. So for example 1 x 4, 2 x 3, 3 x 2, 3 x 1 doesn't seem to bad to me.

[SirCaitlynJenner]

Any sort of concealment buff will help you either get a good inital salvo or fade out of enemy fov faster. Besides there aren't really any other skills i would consider for most cruisers (talking about maxed out captains)

[WingedHussar_Adler]

3 minutes ago, Armorin said:

Thanks for the advice on AFT. I think most seals play coop anyway. There are some very good players at lower tiers. In fact, it is a more fun game than at higher levels.

I believe 19 points is the max for a captain? I think in most cases, only 1 4 point skill gives a very good use of the skill distribution. So for example 1 x 4, 2 x 3, 3 x 2, 3 x 1 doesn't seem to bad to me.

It depends on the cruiser line. 

 

On usa you want AFT (it is must have) because you will mostly spec for full AAA range. 

 

On some others you will go for IFHE.

 

And so one....usually at least 2 tier4 skills will be used. 

 

 

[Armorin]

I like to have PT/PM/IFA tier 1 skills on anything none CV. -30% module decapitation risk is a lot of bang for buck, and the others are key information. EL is useless on a RN CL, and sometimes I wonder if it is better firing off a round before changing shell types anyway.

 

So what tier skill combo's do other people use?

[ColonelPete]

Without the concealment module the difference is not that big, but it can help.

With the module, the difference is like between night and day.

 

 

[Tyrendian89]

4 minutes ago, Armorin said:

I like to have PT/PM/IFA tier 1 skills on anything none CV. -30% module decapitation risk is a lot of bang for buck, and the others are key information. EL is useless on a RN CL, and sometimes I wonder if it is better firing off a round before changing shell types anyway.

 

So what tier skill combo's do other people use?

I've probably got damn near every mathematically possible combination on one captain or another... completely depends on the shp

[Strapps]

I think it depends on the ship. I didn't have it on my Nurnberg captain for a while as I was using RPF instead but having switched over, I wouldn't go back (though I would put RPF on as a second 4-point skill). I don't agree that it's necessary on all cruisers; I understand it allows you to get a bit closer and break off a bit sooner but the moment that first volley goes out, you're usually spotted anyway so it's better to use cover and position effectively than rely on CE.

[mtm78]

Most of my captains are quite alike. All cruiser have PT, almost all have EM, the one's who benefit from SI have that, others DE ( and sometimes both ). Then EVERYTHING I have has CE, even my Yamato, even my Moskva and even my Tashkent ( though that is what I am going to change, I did fine with Tashkent on tier 8 but I fail on tier 9 and I think I'm not playing cruiser like enough because I didn't spec out of CE yet... ). Khaba was the first ship I never planned to run concealment on. 

 

I feel like WG has made very specialized builds very unviable, since you have to give up so much other stuff. Which is good I guess, but it didn't make me spec lots of different combinations. 

 

Ofc my DD's have torpedo centered skills ect ect, but that's class specific. If you compare my BB's and my cruisers it would be hard to really tell them apart on most ships ( IJN BB's don't really attract me to spec for AAA or anything other 'exotic' ). 

 

Doesn't that site allow you to see the most commonly picked or most 'popular' builds for each ship? I forgot the name.. 

 

 

[rvfharrier]

2 minutes ago, Armorin said:

I like to have PT/PM/IFA tier 1 skills on anything none CV. -30% module decapitation risk is a lot of bang for buck, and the others are key information. EL is useless on a RN CL, and sometimes I wonder if it is better firing off a round before changing shell types anyway.

 

So what tier skill combo's do other people use?

 

Could be worth considering dropping IFA, especially when you already have PT it simply seems a bit redundant. If you know you're being targeted then it's pretty safe to assume incoming fire and maneuver accordingly. The skill point you free up may give you more options further down the tree.

 

It's different for every ship but generally for cruisers I'll take PT as my only single-point skill, PM for BBs and often both PM and PT for DDs. Japanese DDs I'll forgo the PT. Adrenaline Rush, Superintendent and Concealment Expert seem to be mainstays almost regardless of ship type, the only ship I feel really needs EM is the Yamato. After those it simply becomes too dependent on the individual line the captain is for.

[Armorin]

There is the World of Warships Wiki page which gives a list of reliable skills, but it's probably a little too generic in places, or out of date. T1 ships really don't need some of the skills they recommend, as they don't meet T2 ships. (unless some [edited] forms a T1/T2 division to kindly hobble the team)

Something seems wrong if BB's are speccing for concealment rather than firefighting skills.

[Tyrendian89]

2 minutes ago, Armorin said:

 

Something seems wrong if BB's are speccing for concealment rather than firefighting skills.

say that again when a North Carolina opens fire at you from concealment at 11.8km... good luck angling against that in time... stealth BBs are among the most deadly things that exist in the game.

[Xevious_Red]

Concealment expert lets you:

 

-Get closer without being detected

-Disengage easier

-cap easier

-stealth torp in some cases

-get closer to radar range for more suprise

-in some cases stealth radar

-in some cases stealth AA (carriers hate that)

-not be the first person spotted (everyone shoots at the first spotted)

-work out whats near you based on enemy detection ranges vs yours. If you have 8.7 detection and are spotted the obly thing near you is a DD. Its also quite close to you. If your detection is 15km and you're spotted it could be anything and they could be in lots of places.

 

There's probably more benefits if I think about it, suffice to say its an incredibly useful skill