Brace yourself, DX 11 is comming - or how WG is "only" a little over decade behind soon

[havaduck]

From the portal:

Starting with Update 0.6.9, the game by default will use DirectX 11 for Windows platforms. The only exception will be game stations using Intel graphics processors—for these models, the game client will still be using DirectX 9. All players will have an option to manually switch between DirectX 9 and DirectX 11. DirectX 11 implementation will allow us to implement new graphics technologies to the game in the future and in version 0.6.9 will not affect the graphics or client performance.

 

 

Lets get the big elephant out of the room: I cant see and DX 11 specific features yet. The switchback mode explicitly implies that there is nothing DX 11 specific (like Tesselation "instead" of POM in other games)  that couldnt be done (slower) with D10 or 9.    With that update WG is "only" lagging behind a little bit more than a decade! (8800 GTX, DX 10, 2006, no more relevant (Intel, mobile ...) DX 9 cards afterwards.

 

To be more specific: They already used an DX 9E mode, and I have been questioning ever since why the wouldnt just translate the rendering path to DX 11 -> Experiments in the era a decade ago showed that most work is easily done automated with only minimal human polishing required for an respectable performance gain. Further, DX 11 without those exclusive features actively used can be run on any DX 9c, or at least 10 card. The only exception is a non-DX 11 capable OS. So thats 10, 8 , 7, Vista with 10 only and ...... oh yeah, Windows XP without.  According to their own minimum specs: Windows 7 is required (even on the ru page). Further all the graphics card there mentioned are at least DX 10 only .....

 

 

So DX 11 here, everything well? ........ well not really.

WG still hasnt found the sekrit documents  from 3dfx (over 2 decades ago) for SSAA or at least MSAA. Ingame you get only sucky blurr-aa. This is a big deal because in DX 11 you can only enhance, but not generally force an AA mode. You see this shitty blur AA is a post processing effect, and has as much to do with real AA as coating your monitor in grease! There you go, you can see even less aliasing with even less of a performance hit.

Right now I am forcing 8x FSSSAA - and with it, the  aliasing   Eyecancer is  gone  lowered to acceptable levels.

 

I am to lazy to take new screens - have some really old  comparison with 4 x SGSSAA from back then (8 is better obviously).

 

.... and ffs view the pictures with 1:1 pixel mapping and not scaled down!

 

 

So everything is lost?

Well down sampling will still work, since it doesnt force a AA mode (which the DX 11 specs prohibit, and it now rests specifically on the game side for AA to be called onto the driver, which then can be swapped out for a higher quality one via settings/[haggs ]). The thing is: Downsampling is OGSSAA, its inferior, more expensive (aka same card, you will be only able to afford less iq), and best of all: With this shitty not scaling UI - you will need a microscope.

 

An example: I run 8xSGSSAA, on 1920x1200. For this at least 3x3 down sampling would be appropriate ....... thats 5760 x 3600!

 

 

I have to give them one thing:

DX 9 mode is still staying, so there is nothing forcing DX 11 upon you - which is uncommonly considerate from WG. I bet they only want a fail save in case they (again) fail really hard .......

 

Thing is:

Games like Metro 2033 started using things like tesselation (and Metro did it truly russian stronk programming style be "pumping up" typewriters ) in 2010. The first DX 11 cards are from 2008 ....... so I expect WG with their "2 steps ahead in being a decade behind everyone else"-agenda to throw some additional things in, beginning in the next 1-2 years as timeframe. Who knows, they might even fix the Carrier UI and the damn chat because game 2 - 3 decades ago got that one right!

Anyway, sooner or later there will be probably be a choice between Eyecancer or no new graphic-features - or they might just switch of the DX 9 mode entirely off because its no longer relevant in their eyes. At least bugfixing will be mainly on the DX 11 client after a while, while DX 9 will be attended too, but only in legacy mode ....... a horrible prospect for anyone in DX 9 mode because WG is horrible in the bug fixing even when you are in the primary group.

 

 

 

 

Hope some found it interesting. I hope even the ones using AA found it even more useful .....

One disclaimer here: I am not up 2 date when it comes to the graphics part. I pretty much dont have the time anymore. What I want to say there is I am not up to date anymore so I might miss out on crucial information ....... if so, you know where the reply button is.

 

 

 

 

 

tl;dr - I got at least Win 7 with a at least a DX 11 card, what will change for me?

Knowing WG, some new crashes and bugs to enjoy. Maybe a performance boost, but knowing them it might as well be a loss initially due to framedrops (which you dont want torp beating or meleeing somebody). Basically have fun being the guinea pic for WG. In general? Nothing, maybe a driver update when the DX 11 client releases and you want to use that. Some more eyecandy in  next 1-3 years. If you want a preview, go look up some 8 year old games ........

 

[Tungstonid]

Expected a ship design planned during the last decade.

Got disappointed.

[mtm78]

Someone is salty....

 

As an AMD user, any game moving from old DX to new DX is a good thing. My (also very old) hd7850 has much better Dx11 performance as Dx9. 

[MaxxyNL]

I love the fact that we finally (it took a long time WG) get DX11 in WoWs.

Now we have to wait another 4-5 years before we can have DX12 in WoWs.

 

[El2aZeR]

Tbh there are a lot more pressing issues to fix rather than switching to DX11 or 12.

[havaduck]

3 hours ago, mtm78 said:

Someone is salty....

 

 

 

....that they didnt do it earlier.

 

 

3 hours ago, mtm78 said:

As an AMD user, any game moving from old DX to new DX is a good thing. My (also very old) hd7850 has much better Dx11 performance as Dx9. 

 

Exactly.

 

Honestly Marvin, I get the feeling you didnt read at all. ;)

 

 

WoWs should have never even released as an DX 9 game. Well, it also should have included things like AA, a working chat and ......... trees! Yeah, I remember that one, because WG "praised themselves for adding that". Trees, a "feature" I came to enjoy from the Atari 2600 and C64, and they wanted a damn medal for finally adding that.

 

Years later:

- no working chat.

- trees.

- still only cheat aa.

.......

 

..... and like I said: Their innovation (that is upcomming) will still still put them in lagging behind over a decade.

 

Let me put it into perspective: If I think "shitty graphics that have to run on every potato PC" and then add "DX 11", I immediately think World of Warcraft. Now ask yourself: When did that game get DX 11? Could it be 2011?

Or other shitty f2p games like ...... I dont know, Star Trek online have DX 11 for how long? Half a decade?

 

 

Or my favourite of them all, World of Tanks:

 

 

Spoiler

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I rest my case ........

 

also ........ *I regret nothing*.

 

Spoiler

 

 

3 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

Tbh there are a lot more pressing issues to fix rather than switching to DX11 or 12.

 

True, very true actually. I dont even take it as aimed at me, but as a general statement, again, one which I agree with.

 

The thing is that with 2 years "of release into the game" (I still remember the "Release Party" - WG was also "soiling us" back then already), its still in a state of not being "release worthy". Seriously, come back when you have a hinge of balance, a working chat, social features (clans, not FB ), a working UI, AA, a engine from this millennia and then we will talk about this game being "fit for release".

[RUSSIANBlAS]

54 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

Tbh there are a lot more pressing issues to fix rather than switching to DX11 or 12.

You mean like that patch a few months back where they nuked support for Windows XP so all those Russian calculator PCs will be forced into playing WoWS Blitz or something? 

[Takru]

Time for a new toaster?

[mtm78]

1 hour ago, havaduck said:

Right now I am forcing 8x FSSSAA - and with it, the  aliasing   Eyecancer is  gone  lowered to acceptable levels.

 

I stopped reading after that, or well I glanced over but really couldn't be arsed to actually read  

 

20 minutes ago, havaduck said:

also ........ *I regret nothing*.

 

pff you.. you .... 

 

21 minutes ago, havaduck said:

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*pets*

 

 

[robihr]

10 minutes ago, Takru said:

Time for a new toaster?

 

new toaster have faster CPU than russian PC-s

 

[Spellfire40]

3 minutes ago, robihr said:

 

new toaster have faster CPU than russian PC-s

 

if they ad Things like geting you citadel higher above the water in a turn id like to stay at 9.0. In tanks they basically nerfed light tanks when they made teh physics Change. Nicer eyecandy quite ok. Messing with gamemechanics as a result please no....

[havaduck]

40 minutes ago, mtm78 said:

I stopped reading after that, or well I glanced over but really couldn't be arsed to actually read  

 

 

Well its a long accepted truth that people react different to aliasing. (As a hint: Other people are forcing SGSSAA on Minecraft! Yes, Minecraft!)  I "can" play without, but here, in this game, you pretty much (except CV obviously) spend the entire game focused on horrible edgy ships with chainsaw teeth running all around and inside them. Ofc content creators, could have designed their content in the first place to be less AA dependant (aka good content creators and content), but thats not the case in this game. But to give them credit, they are somewhat working on that now. After 5 years of development. So excuse me, Ill stop giving them shít for that in 5 years too after they have completely rectified that situation. Earliest will be 2022.

Thing is, remember the original foliage hell that was Crysis 1 - even that game looks better now, and consumes less resources than WoWs with similar forced settings. But hey, its only 10 years old, and it had DX 10 from the beginning.

 

...... also I like the "how low can it go" approach (Ever seen the old UT 2k games on Voodoo cards? ), but this game fails there too! Even without the horrendous costs for proper AA (either have a performant good working one ingame, or dont complain when you get strapped onto your back the costs for forced one), this game consumes way to much resources for the result. Going back to Crysis 1, you could tone that one down to look like Return to Castle Wolfenstein (2001); but guess what? It also needed a graphics card of the same magnitude as RtCW (good old 9700 pro will do nicely - 2002)!

 

So lets recap:

- It consumes way to much resources in potato-mode.

- It wastes already available potential for a speed-up that has been there for years! - just like your card. Thats basically a Deadly Sin right there - (Remember: No new DX 9 cards past 2006! - even PCI-E -> AGP bridge cards had DX 10.1 in ATIs case), so this means being even more horrible in potato mode.

- It looks like crap on a performant rig because basic features from the last millennia are missing - and the consumption to output ratio again is bad anyway, compared to what could be run there too. 

- You gotta have a top notch rig and use haggs(r) to get it to look acceptable, and then we better not talk about any input output ratios there any more.

 

 

Congrats, it doesnt look good or is performant for neither segment of players, high end nor potatoes. So please no BS about russian potato PCs, because its wasteful there too and fails there pretty hard too.

 

 

Remember Torchlight? That one looked ..... humble. No problem with that, still a fun game - but it basically consumed no resources, so that matches. It had even an Netbook mode! And these old Atom-Netbooks with Intel-IGP were the epitome of shít! They needed an NV 8400 IGP (instead of that pos Intel licensed and then failed even on the drivers hard!) or something similar like the good ATI 4200 IGP to help the Atom decode, so you could at least watch 720p on YT without hickups and lags because it (and the Intel IGP) was such a slow pos.

 

 

 

[Ferry_25]

Err. Yeah. I totally understand what you're talking about OP.... I could prescribe some medications to make you make giving more sense though. Or I am the one needing it? On a serious note: could you please explain the generation of the 70's WTF you're talking about??

[krautjaeger]

Playing 0.6.9.0 on NA, personally it's all good. Game transitions faster in and out of battle, really noticeable, and textures load instantly. Feels like an improvement.

[havaduck]

53 minutes ago, krautjaeger said:

Playing 0.6.9.0 on NA, personally it's all good. Game transitions faster in and out of battle, really noticeable, and textures load instantly. Feels like an improvement.

 

 

Thats some pretty important information! Thx for the bringing it here!

Any indication of WG using some DX 11 texture streaming or maybe the compressing/decompressing features? (Using DX 11   ≠   using any features it offers!)

 

€: deleted the part about DX 11.x - its delusional with WG .......

 

 

(See, this is what I have been talking about. "People dont care about graphics", yeah right, but maybe loading into the game with the same hardware before the 5 minute mark would be nice, now wouldnt it?)

 

 

1 hour ago, Ferry_25 said:

On a serious note: could you please explain the generation of the 70's WTF you're talking about??

 

No problem, pops, Ill try to explain.

(Dont take it seriously, if anything I belong in the geriatric category too because I played 3 of the 4 following games). ;)

 

 

This is the current game:

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There are  talks   an announcement about moving it to at least that techlevel:

 

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or maybe that one:

 

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(thats actually an insult to those games, because esp. Power at Sea was downright awesome for the time!)

 

 

 

Meanwhile the real current tech standard looks like that:

 

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I hope that last game didnt give you tachycardia. ;)

 

 

Now we are talking about implications, consequences and how poor or not their DX 11 implementation is.

[krautjaeger]

5 minutes ago, havaduck said:

 

Thats some pretty important information! Thx for the bringing it here!

 

Any indication of WG using some DX 11 texture streaming or maybe the compressing/decompressing features? (Using DX 11   ≠   using any features it offers!)

 

Not sure, though it just feels smoother and looks better imho, to me. I'm really happy with it. Though there may be some people with low spec laptops and old desktops that may have issues, I dunno.

[svadilfari]

"2 steps ahead in being a decade behind everyone else"-agenda

WG in a nutshell

[Ferry_25]

1 hour ago, havaduck said:

 

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https://www.google.nl/search?q=point+break+respect+for+the+elderly&client=firefox-b&source=lnms&tbm=vid&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjbqIbvicvVAhXEJ1AKHXLGB4cQ_AUICygC&biw=2560&bih=1276

[Hades_warrior]

My GTX 970 from ASUS will be happy with new improwed technology in the future of this game.

[havaduck]

2 hours ago, Ferry_25 said:

https://www.google.nl/search?q=point+break+respect+for+the+elderly&client=firefox-b&source=lnms&tbm=vid&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjbqIbvicvVAhXEJ1AKHXLGB4cQ_AUICygC&biw=2560&bih=1276

 

 

;)

 

 

 

[svadilfari]

if the WoWs graphics team moves at the same rate as WoT, i.e. slowly backward in time, we shouldn´t expect new graphics anytime soon.

joking aside, i´m perfectly happy with WoWs graphics in-game. improvements are welcome, of course, but nowhere near on top of my "to do list" for the game.

the first graphics issue i would tackle is a 2D port, or at least a somewhat optimized 3D one...

[havaduck]

I started the game just now in DX 11 mode ........... well and I didnt want to immediately uninstall it.

 

Well, the 8x MSAA enhanced to 8xSGSSAA looks ......... ok tbh. Backgrounds could be a little bit calmer, but I admit, in a match having to look onto the ships on the sea, its probably ok.

 

 

How stable this whole thing is? We will see; but lets just say I am all ready and set: 

 

 

 

 

[loppantorkel]

I just increased the graphic settings to high after having played at medium for two years. It looks pretty beautiful

[CptQanuk]

Question is can I finally run WoWs in SLI with my nvidia cards and enjoy the game without any graphical bugs?

[robihr]

9 minutes ago, HalSteiner said:

Question is can I finally run WoWs in SLI with my nvidia cards and enjoy the game without any graphical bugs?