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Thracen

Top tier DDs 8-10, do people enjoy them?

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[DAVY]
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Hi there,

I just went back into my high tier dds for this torp and fire quest. I left dds when RPF came out, figured with the new skill tree and the ijn nerfs there was no fun in it at my skill level. I thought I'd come back to them when I have some more games under my belt.

 

So on my return I played a few games and invariably I felt like a mouse in a cage full of tigers. Radar and hydro on nearly every ship, CVs are suddenly way more common. The dds I'm in handle worse than some CCs, the torps are slow or short range and pointless anyway with all the aircraft around.

So my points of discussion:

1. Do dds have to play so terribly defensive for the first 10 minutes and hope their team doesn't lose?

2. Do you enjoy the current DD play style in the top tiers? If so why?

 

Personally I think my biggest problem with dds is how helpless they are without good teammates, CCs can kite from range when a team is less than stellar, BBs can tank it out, dds can't even use their own smoke for damage if a their team is losing ground. That and the art of getting torp hits through dds, ccs, hydro and aircraft seems impossible with 8-10 km range and travel at 56 knots in some cases? lol the Khaba could almost outrun them!

 

(Note, I know this topic does cross into balance realms. Ideally I want to avoid that discussion since it's already everywhere on the forum, what I'm after is the mentality it takes to be the patient stealthy hunter in a dd and not the panicked prey.)

Much appreciated.

 

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Players
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I like playing top DDs.....single most important class if not CV in game. If your DDs dies match is lost.....no spot=lost game. .....dds are not dmg dealers. They deal smallest dmg....but cap, spot, space control.....precious. 

 

 

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[-AP-]
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I still like them, the new meta makes it more challenging but more rewarding.

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[CZWSM]
[CZWSM]
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Playing almost only DDs - Fletcher is my beloved, after her Gearing, Lo Yang... et cetera. Using torpedo setup, smoke teammates, capping, spoting and sending torps. Guns only in knife fights if really I have no other possibility. But thanks to radars, hydro and planes is game sometimes very risky...

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[AKI]
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I still enjoy it I must say. trying new stuff out (after every nerf WG does to my beloved IJN dd's :Smile_hiding: ). Like using torp reload on Kagero and Yuugumo (since smoke would be useless with all those radar), or specking the Akizuki for max range (15km) and play her like a cruiser and rain fire from behind an island (gotten a witherer achievement with her) :cap_rambo:

Best way to play stealthy dd's is just look at the compostion of enemy ships (evil ships that have radar for example, how many of them), other dd's that could harm you. Try to avoid them, look at your minimap etc

 

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I love my IJN DDs (only line of them I went up with and single line with the T10 ATM), specially Kagero due to her being the stealthiest. My gameplay philosophy is similar to Max_Kammerer's: I tend to provide my first smoke for the team in certain maps, laying a screen for an undetected approach or to conceal the number of supporting barrels (even if the guy right behind me is a RN CL, so he can spare his first smoke for later), then entering the dangerous zone (about 6-7km of the expected location of an enemy destroyer, which usually is also around 9-10km of the expected location of a supporting radar ship, but this obviously varies with other nations' DDs) in an oblique path in order to minimise the chances of being counter-spotted. So I basically force myself into being more cautious, but not utterly defensive, spotting targets for others. If detected, depending on the circumstances, either turn away and do The Salmon Dance or go full knife-fight.

 

I'm not that a big fan of torp reload although I use it from time to time, but keya_kin's advice is spot-on: don't jump directly into battle, take some of the time you're given in the pre-battle roster to analyse the enemy composition and even ships' stats (you can see them by placing the cursor above the silhouette). You may think it's funny, but I've encountered quite a lot of CV players (not to mention those that don't play them) that can't tell the flight control (or CAW -carrier air wing- as I prefer to call it) of their counterpart until they're actually facing it, and they could have known because the info is right there in the roster to interpret it. I've been asked many times if I had a special mod that showed it to me and had to explain where and what to look for in order to attain such "arcane" knowledge.

 

Salute.

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[DAVY]
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I just find it so inconsistent and frustrating.

 

Variables that can ruin your day in a dd:

 

Radar, hydro, spotting planes, CVs, High CC count, the class is also more dependant on team damage and unrewarded for it's  spotting and smoke cover. AP pens hurt like hell, especially in the gearing. You're target number one under any circumstance and if your team don't follow you all you can do is turn around and run most of the time.

My credit to you that remain DD players in the high tiers, it requires patience I simply don't have. I wonder why British CCs don't suffer the same problems? Smaller smoke, worse torps less stealth and a crit spot everyone loves but their style of play feels so much better to me somehow. That said I'm only t7 in those, maybe the dreaded T8 will put an end to that line for me as well :(.

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[KUMA]
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I can vouch for the Kebab. That thing is unbelievable, although it barely classes as a DD.

 

Aside from that, I still like my Akizuki, although I might be in a minority now and Kagerou still has a place in the game as the stealthiest DD out there. I can't comment on Benson or the German thing, as I've played neither, but by all accounts they appear to be very strong and have a strong impact on the outcome of the game.

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have both Khaba and Gearing as well as Udaloi. Nothing wrong with those, although Khaba hardly qualifies as a DD.

I never liked the IJN torpedoboats and only made the Hatsuharu (almost freeXPed that sh*t) so cant speak to those or the german things. I do grind RN CAs and love them. 

 

Gunboats are easy - you kill other dds so incredibly fast and then the map is your playground (unless that sky-disease is around). Its fun and impactful most of the time, although the camping BBabies meta can make dds a bit lonely.

 

The start of the game is rough - usually its about hitting "S" as fast as possible when spotted (except Khaba) and smoking up. Since everyone and their mother will turn their guns around and light up a spotted dd, you tend to see any radar ships before they are in range. After that, just keep track of their position and either stay out of range or bait radar from max range and permaspot them after. 

 

Hydro? Who cares about hydro (unless its that german dd)

Anything that get to hydro range means you mispositioned and usually have to all-in counter-rush and torp.

Anything outside hydro range, you just spot for the big guns (except in Khaba). 

DD play these days isnt so much about damage, although Gearing torping smoked up blobs of ships 10-15 km away sometimes makes me feel dirty. Its zoning off areas, spotting, smoking and capping. 

 

 

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[N3XUS]
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imo Yugumo (12kms torps + torp-booster + good shell velocity+ very low detectability) + Udaloi (fast, good turret traverse + shooting+ good shell velocity/ the torps 8kms i do not use often) are ok ships. I play them with special +100% XP-camo and 19 points-capts. The ships are also ok to play caus the camo (100% extra XP) is kind of rewarding since we now can tranfer the capts-xp to other capts cross-nations(!!), is ok, a  motivation. So, yes, realy worth playing those ships from time to time.

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Higher tiered DD's are at the greatest risk of struggling to do anything without support.  These tiers with the Battleships, Cruisers, some DD's and of course the CV's with manual drops, spotting craft that follow you all game and then the Hydro to spot all your fish and then finally the Radar to catch you after trying to get away.    You can spend the whole game simply trying to get a spot to make an impact.  DD's in the higher tiers cannot carry a team alone.  However i can carry a team in the lower tiers even in ranked.  So it is very much the hardest group of ships to play T8 and above.   This is why the BB's have such a good W/R at these levels and why you see so many more of them.  You can be a potato in a BB and still win, in DD potatoes = Loss to your team.

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[BONI]
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Got into t8 for the first time recently with Ognevoi. Twas okay and I expected worse. It's true there are a lot more things that have radar, but otoh CVs are rare and when you do get them, it can't be 2x CVs per team. Now basically every DD has long-range torps, even the USSR, so Vigilance is pretty important to have if not hydro. Maybe I just suck but if I get 5 torp hits with a dedicated torpboat like Ognevoi, it's been a decent match. At this point, players know to wasdhax, have high-level captains with Vigilance, and the most popular BBs have hydro, so it's hard times for torpboats. I would go with the low-mid tiers instead for that. Although high is still playable, it's overall harder to get hits.

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Its more of an risk management than playing overly defensive. Also wich nation you play has huge impact what you should do. I have played now more Benson ( since ranked is over ) and i try to be agressive in caps if team supports me and quite passive if they dont.

 

As contrast kagero i played passive and focused on spotting + torping and opened fire only if i could sink or make enemy retreat.

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[ONE2]
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it is definitely harder to play DD's at high tier, as there are so many radar equipped ships in almost any game. Also carriers add an extra challenge and when the enemy team has 4 radars and a carrier it is almost impossible to even survive past the first contact. So yeah, often times it is not enjoyable at all.

 

I do like DD play in general, but due to aforementioned reasons I find mid-tier (5-7) games much more enjoyable, when playing DD. You might still bump into the occasional radar, but not in every game, so the risk to DD players is more balanced.

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Beta Tester
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The current problem with T10 is not enough people are there. So a lot of t8 gets screwed over by MM. WG needs to make it if you queue up in a t10 ship your rewards are doubled or at least give people incentive to playing high tiers. It's sad watching a NC or any other t8 try to fight a t10 ship..This might make people dust off their t10's..

 

Perhaps they need to start giving DD radar.

 

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[QTAZ]
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29 minutes ago, Freyr_90 said:

I love my Fletcher <3

Great torps and concealment, excellent smoke, etc. It's a challenge with all the hydro and radar, but also way more fun

How did you spec it? I decided to pick up the torp reload upgrade in 3rd slot and pick TAE perk to enjoy the boost to torp reload.

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[ONE2]
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Well, true dat. I have been at times in 10 match with my Bismarck and you are basically just lunch for the big boys. But for a DD (the topic of this discussion) this is less of a problem, as they have concealment and their torps will still deal good damage (providing you get to hit anything). However, most tier 8 DD's (and some higher tier DD's as well) would have only 8km torpedo range. So if the opposing team has multiple radar ships with 9-11.5 km radar range each, they will render the DD completely impotent for the beginning half of the game. One basically just has to wait and hide at the back until the radar charges have been used up before moving on. While entirely sensible, this makes for a boring gameplay.

 

Of course, all this would be less depressing if the sonar / radar could not see through islands (which is absurd) as it does now. That would give the plucky DD a fighting chance at least.

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Occasionally I dip into my Yugumo but if I'm honest I don't enjoy high tiers as much as 5 to 8 for all the reasons stated above and as this is a game and NOT a job I play where I get the most fun and enjoyment so I can unwind after a day at the office and not get wound up more.  All my T10 ships of which I've got most including Missouri are rusting hulks in my port.. I burnt my Shima the other day whilst I was chucking stuff on the bonfire.

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[ONE2]
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Awww, but Shima is so cute! I wish it was more useful though. Tend to get radared / aircraft spotted way too much, so I have admittedly reduced the number of times I take it out for a spin. It just ain't so much fun to merely act as suicide-target practice all the time. Occasional survival beyond the 2 minute-marker is actually desirable.

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58 minutes ago, HalSteiner said:

How did you spec it? I decided to pick up the torp reload upgrade in 3rd slot and pick TAE perk to enjoy the boost to torp reload.

Pretty much the same, although I went with SE, AR and Superintendent instead of TAE. Still not sure about the last 4 points. Either TAE and priority target or RPF :)

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Alpha Tester
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I have ONE tier X DD..... and it's a Shima.. and torpedo gameplay is death... so no I don't enjoy Shima.

 

But I enjoy my gunboats / hybrids. 

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[CZWSM]
[CZWSM]
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2 hours ago, HalSteiner said:

How did you spec it? I decided to pick up the torp reload upgrade in 3rd slot and pick TAE perk to enjoy the boost to torp reload.

IMHO Fletcher is one of the best real torpedo boats (if not the best :) ) in the game and after removing of stealth fire is use of guns not so safe thanks to long bloom. OK, guns are also usable for knife fights with some other DDs or for occassional harrasing of BBs babies from smoke (rare in my style of playing).

 

My 19pts skipper:

1 Preventive Maintenance

2 Last Stand

3 Survivability Expert / Torpedo Armament Expertise / Basic Firing Training / Superintendent

4 Concealment Expert

 

Modules:

Main Armaments Modification 1

Aiming Systems Modification 1

Torpedo Tubes Modification 3

Propulsion Modification 1

Steering Gears Modification 2

Concealment System Modification 1

 

It's a final "build" of my Fletch after more than 500 battle with her... And she's my most beloved barge :).

 

PS: premium camouflage installed and DFAA used as the last of consumables

PPS: training of the 2nd "hi-risk battle management" skipper where SE and SI are changed to AR and RPF is in process

 

 

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[QTAZ]
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12 minutes ago, Max_Kammerer said:

IMHO Fletcher is one of the best real torpedo boats (if not the best :) ) in the game and after removing of stealth fire is use of guns not so safe thanks to long bloom. OK, guns are also usable for knife fights with some other DDs or for occassional harrasing of BBs babies from smoke (rare in my style of playing).

 

My 19pts skipper:

1 Preventive Maintenance

2 Last Stand

3 Survivability Expert / Torpedo Armament Expertise / Basic Firing Training / Superintendent

4 Concealment Expert

 

Modules:

Main Armaments Modification 1

Aiming Systems Modification 1

Torpedo Tubes Modification 3

Propulsion Modification 1

Steering Gears Modification 2

Concealment System Modification 1

 

It's a final "build" of my Fletch after more than 500 battle with her... And she's my most beloved barge :).

 

PS: premium camouflage installed and DFAA used as the last of consumables

 

 

Wow, seems I did the right thing because I picked exactly the same perks for my dedicated Fletcher captain. I took my time with deciding about whether to build the modules and the captain around guns / torpedoes but finally I couldn't resist how strong this ship is with upgraded torps. Thanks for your input, Max. I'm sure I will enjoy this ship now!

 

Also I think this captain will fit alright for my Sims.

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[TTT]
Moderator
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I play t10 DDs almost exclusively so yeah, I enjoy them a lot.

 

It's much more difficult than it was in the past though.

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