Gallant in Dunkirk containers, broken promise?

[zaaaaaaP]

Hello everyone!

 

In the current Dunkirk event, you can earn special containers in order to complete the Dunkirk collection, which will give you the legendary british Captain Jack Dunkirk as reward.

 

Each of those containers also has the (small) chance of rewarding you the new british premium destroyer Gallant.

 

Players who have already bought Gallant in the webshop have the option to complete additional missions with the ship to get more containers, in order to complete the collection faster and easier.

 

The newspost on EU (and also on Asia) for the Dunkirk event says this:

Quote

 If the player already has HMS Gallant, then a random ship from the super containers will be rewarded. If the player has all the premium ships from this list, then they will be recompensed the cost of HMS Gallant in doubloons. 

 

If you buy the Gallant now, you can complete the collection faster and you have the chance at winning another premium ship. If you already own every ship that is possible to get from the SC's, then you get 4.500 doubloons. Sound quite nice! And a good additional motivation to potential Gallant buyers.

 

But what did happen instead?

 

Players who were so lucky to receive the Gallant "twice" did not get any chance at any other premium ship (even tho they do not own every ship that is in the SC loot table). And they also did not receive doubloons, but instead the credit worth of the ship, 6.750.000 silver credits. (One example here, and a reddit discussion here)

 

This issue became public recently and after players made a fuss about it, it was atleast acknowledged and we were told to write a ticket to Customer Support if you want the doubloons asap, or wait for the event to finish and WG will credit all affected accounts then.

 

Today the servers on EU (yesterday NA too) received a small update with this fix:

Quote

Fixed an issue, which caused compensation for receiving duplicates of the ship Gallant from a container to be in Credits rather than Doubloons

 

So it is nice that those players who already own every single premium ship from the SC's will now receive the proper reward (doubloons) instead of silver credits.

 

Interestingly enough, the newspost on NA is phrased differently. They only promise that each container has the small chance to get Gallant, which is true. No word about the duplicate Gallant and what would happen then, no promise of Supercontainer ships or doubloons or credits. Did they notice these issues upfront?

 

But what has happened to the chance at the other ships? Nobody seems to mention that anywhere. The newspost did promise that first you have the chance at another ship, and only if that fails, then you get the doubloons.

 

For many people the chance at another ship could be worth much more than the 4.500 doubloons for the duplicate Gallant. And i am sure some amount of players who bought Gallant did so with this promise in mind (i know i did).

 

So every player who has bought Gallant has been lied to about this chance to win another ship. And those players who did receive a duplicate Gallant where robbed of the chance of another ship.

 

Apparantly, saying something which is not true is not a lie, according to Tuccy in a reddit comment. I have a hard time following that logic tho.

 

For me that (even tho small) chance at winning another ship from one of these containers added to my decision to buy Gallant, i am pretty sure i am not the only one.

 

So i have to ask WG, what is going on with that promise? Its nice that the doubloon/silver issue has been fixed now (after almost 2 weeks). But are you trying to just sit this issue out and hope nobody notices it?

 

@MrConway @Tuccy @Kandly

 

 

[RenamedUser_92906789]

Lets be honest ... win "another" ship seems kinda "complicated"...

So the doubloons for the value is fair.

 

[zaaaaaaP]

53 minutes ago, nambr9 said:

Lets be honest ... win "another" ship seems kinda "complicated"...

So the doubloons for the value is fair.

 

 

Why is that complicated? Same logic behind that as if you would open a Supercontainer and RNG has decided you get a ship.

 

And complicated or not, it was a promise that contributed to the purchase decision of some people. Does the fact that it might be complicated to do ingame (which it isnt) make it okay to lie to us?

 

Yes the doubloons are fair, no isse with that. If they had never promised the chance at another ship, and only the doubloons (even tho that was bugged but oh well..), fine!

 

But they did promise the chance, and it is not there.

[ColonelPete]

Was already answered. They will get the ship.

No need to complain. 

[zaaaaaaP]

5 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

Was already answered. They will get the ship.

No need to complain. 

 

Where was that answered? Can you link me to it please.

 

And what ship? These players already own the Gallant, which other ship are you referring to?

[ColonelPete]

They will get a new random ship.

[zaaaaaaP]

Just now, ColonelPete said:

They will get a new random ship.

 

Can you link me to that information please, thank you.

[RenamedUser_92906789]

18 minutes ago, zaaaaaaP said:

 

Why is that complicated? Same logic behind that as if you would open a Supercontainer and RNG has decided you get a ship.

 

And complicated or not, it was a promise that some people based their purchase decision on. Does the fact that it might be complicated (which it isnt) make it okay to lie to us?

 

Yes the doubloons are fair, no isse with that. If they had never promised the chance at another ship, and only the doubloons (even tho that was bugged but oh well..), fine!

 

But they did promise the chance, and it is not there.

 

I heard ... promised (couple of times) and lie to us :)

I to think they will give you a "random" ship... and next time they should know better then promising some weird implementation :D

Doubloons for ship is good enough reward if you already have the damn ship.

[T0byJug]

39 minutes ago, zaaaaaaP said:

 

Can you link me to that information please, thank you.

https://worldofwarships.eu/en/news/common/mine-your-own-business/

 

 

Mate make an effort before you rage. This took 2 mins to find as it also  was in one of the most obvious places. The Dunkirk Mission or Operation Dynamo Post. That is also  linked to in the 6.8 patch notes

[zaaaaaaP]

19 minutes ago, T0byJug said:

https://worldofwarships.eu/en/news/common/mine-your-own-business/

 

 

Mate make an effort before you rage. This took 2 mins to find as it also  was in one of the most obvious places. The Dunkirk Mission or Operation Dynamo Post. That is also  linked to in the 6.8 patch notes

 

Can you please make an effort to actually read my post? I did link to that exact newspost myself. And the exact text you marked in your screenshot was quoted by me.

 

And as i said, the information there is false, which is what the entire post here is about.

 

If you have missed the other posts about the duplicate Gallants, here is a example for you. And here is a discussion about it on reddit. I have added those links to the OP now to make it even more clear.

[ASharpPencil]

this is what OP said m8, so "move a long"...

 

[xxNihilanxx]

1 hour ago, zaaaaaaP said:

SNIP...

 

But what has happened to the chance at the other ships? Nobody seems to mention that anywhere. The newspost did promise that first you have the chance at another ship, and only if that fails, then you get the doubloons.

 

For many people the chance at another ship could be worth much more than the 4.500 doubloons for the duplicate Gallant. And i am sure some amount of players who bought Gallant did so with this promise in mind (i know i did).

 

So every player who has bought Gallant has been lied to about this chance to win another ship. And those players who did receive a duplicate Gallant where robbed of the chance of another ship.

 

Apparantly, saying something which is not true is not a lie, according to Tuccy in a reddit comment. I have a hard time following that logic tho.

 

For me that (even tho small) chance at winning another ship from one of these containers added to my decision to buy Gallant, i am pretty sure i am not the only one.

 

So i have to ask WG, what is going on with that promise? Its nice that the doubloon/silver issue has been fixed now (after almost 2 weeks). But are you trying to just sit this issue out and hope nobody notices it?

 

@MrConway @Tuccy @Kandly

 

 

 

I could be wrong but I think I understand what is happening here and where thus where the confusion lies. I'll try to explain...

 

As far as I understand things if one opens a supercontainer and "wins" a premium ship that one already owns then the ship will be substituted for a premium ship of the same tier.

 

Looking at the reddit thread there is talk of a guy not getting a ship despite not owning "Atlanta, Indianapolis or any of the Omaha clones"

 

Atlanta and Indianapolis are T7, the Omaha clones are T5 whereas the Gallant is T6.

 

If somebody wins a Gallant but already owns it then it should be substituted for another T6 premium but if said lucky so and so already has all premium T6 ships then he will be given the value in doubloons.

 

 

[zaaaaaaP]

17 minutes ago, xxNihilanxx said:

 

I could be wrong but I think I understand what is happening here and where thus where the confusion lies. I'll try to explain...

 

As far as I understand things if one opens a supercontainer and "wins" a premium ship that one already owns then the ship will be substituted for a premium ship of the same tier.

 

Looking at the reddit thread there is talk of a guy not getting a ship despite not owning "Atlanta, Indianapolis or any of the Omaha clones"

 

Atlanta and Indianapolis are T7, the Omaha clones are T5 whereas the Gallant is T6.

 

If somebody wins a Gallant but already owns it then it should be substituted for another T6 premium but if said lucky so and so already has all premium T6 ships then he will be given the value in doubloons.

 

 

 

 

I am very sure that the Supercontainer RNG algorithm does not care about the ship tiers. Instead each ship in the loot table has its own "drop chance". It used to be that you could get duplicates in SC's, that was changed around the time of the christmas captains presents. Now in the moment the container is added to your account (not when opening it), RNG  excludes every premium ship that you already own from that loot table. Left are only ships that you dont have, each with its own drop chance. Then the first one picked is given to the player. In the case that a player already owns every ship from the loot table, he will not get any ship from the SC and the RNG will instead go for other SC options (doubloons, flags, premium time, etc).

 

Now with this event and the Dunkirk containers they decided to add a chance to each container to win the Gallant. And it was stated that those players who already own the Gallant (from the webshop), will instead have the chance to win any other premium ship from the SC loot table (regardless of tiers). Only in the case if such a player already owns every ship from that selection, he should be given doubloons.

 

The mention of Indianapolis, Atlanta and Omaha clones are just examples to show that this specific player does not own every ship that we know exists in the SC loot table.

 

I do understand your thinking with the tiers, but i am very sure that thats not how the SC algorithm does it.

 

 

[xxNihilanxx]

14 minutes ago, zaaaaaaP said:

 

 

I am very sure that the Supercontainer RNG algorithm does not care about the ship tiers. Instead each ship in the loot table has its own "drop chance". It used to be that you could get duplicates in SC's, that was changed around the time of the christmas captains presents. Now in the moment the container is added to your account (not when opening it), RNG  excludes every premium ship that you already own from that loot table. Left are only ships that you dont have, each with its own drop chance. Then the first one picked is given to the player. In the case that a player already owns every ship from the loot table, he will not get any ship from the SC and the RNG will instead go for other SC options (doubloons, flags, premium time, etc).

 

Now with this event and the Dunkirk containers they decided to add a chance to each container to win the Gallant. And it was stated that those players who already own the Gallant (from the webshop), will instead have the chance to win any other premium ship from the SC loot table (regardless of tiers). Only in the case if such a player already owns every ship from that selection, he should be given doubloons.

 

The mention of Indianapolis, Atlanta and Omaha clones are just examples to show that this specific player does not own every ship that we know exists in the SC loot table.

 

I do understand your thinking with the tiers, but i am very sure that thats not how the SC algorithm does it.

 

 

 

It seems you are right. I had to go searching but found this...

 

https://worldofwarships.eu/en/news/updates/patch-notes-0515/

"Other Updates

Containers

Premium ships possessed by a player will now be taken into account when a container is collected. If a container includes a Premium ship already possessed by a player, it will be replaced by another randomly selected ship. Moreover, in case a player already possesses all ships that can be obtained via containers then the player will receive a bonus (in Doubloons) equal to the price of the ship in the collected container. For promo ships, this bonus is fixed. For ships that are available for purchase, this bonus is equal to the current ship price (displayed in the game client) for the server (rather than the Premium Shop) in the corresponding region."

 

I could have sworn I read somewhere that it was tier based but I guess not. So this really is WG up to their usual, trustworthy tricks then.

[T0byJug]

1 minute ago, zaaaaaaP said:

 

Can you please make an effort to actually read my post? I did link to that exact newspost myself. And as i said, the information there is false, which is what the entire post here is about.

So let me get this correctly.. Nekrodamus did not get Dubloons he expected WG acknowledged there was an Error in system and gave him the Gold.. The guy is happy. All he stated is he got Credits instead  of Doubloons. AT no time did he complain about not getting a different ship Even though he is completely Aware of the FULL compensation that was stated in the Thread 

Wargaming response was, sorry he should have got Dubloons not credits and its was corrected.

They also stated they would fix this error after the operation was over for all effected OR do it immediately if a support call was Logged.

The site still states you will get a Ship if you have Gallant and do not have all the Prem ships. You have made a rage thread where there is none..

 

IF you get a Gallant reward and it gives you Dubloons/Credits not a alternative ship.. LOG A SUPPORT CALL. If they say Bugger of we dont care

 

THEN LOG A RAGE THREAD ABOUT BEING LIED TO

 

Not before

[zaaaaaaP]

25 minutes ago, T0byJug said:

The site still states you will get a Ship if you have Gallant and do not have all the Prem ships.

 

The site still makes that false claim. How is it okay for you that they make such false statements, especially if it contributes (regardless how much) to a consumers purchase decision?

 

Quote

THEN LOG A RAGE THREAD ABOUT BEING LIED TO

 

Not before

 

Does anyone currently have the chance at another premium ship when opening the containers while owning the Gallant? Yes or no? No, then its a false claim by them which should be ackknowledged and either corrected long ago (the newspost updated) or fixed ingame (actually adding that chance).

 

And this is what this entire topic is about. I do believe i have explained it more than clear and i have provided you the additional links. If you still dont understand it, then i cannot help you and we simply have to disagree.

[T0byJug]

24 minutes ago, xxNihilanxx said:

 

I could have sworn I read somewhere that it was tier based but I guess not. So this really is WG up to their usual, trustworthy tricks then.

You probably just mixing up the drop chance,,, the Sea guys mined data a while ago and found (APPARENTLY) the following

There is a 5% chance of a SP

In that SP there is a 1.2% chance of a prem ship with  1% chance of it being tier 5 ot 6 ship and a 0.2% chance of a tier 7 or 8 ship..

I would think we would ALL hope that if we were lets say rewarded with an Atago and we already had it we would get a Different tier 7 or 8 and not some tier 5

[T0byJug]

40 minutes ago, zaaaaaaP said:

 

The site still makes that false claim. How is it okay for you that they make such false statements, especially if it contributes (regardless how much) to a consumers purchase decision?

 

 

Do i currently have the chance at another premium ship when i open my containers while owning the Gallant? Yes or no? No, then its a false claim by them which should be ackknowledged and either fixed (the newspost updated) or fixed ingame and affected players compensated in some form.

 

And this is what this entire topic is about. I do believe i have explained it more than clear and i have provided you the additional links. If you still dont understand it, then i cannot help you and we simply have to disagree.

Ok how do you know this? How do you know you have no chance of getting a second ship where is the evidence?

Nekrodamus  stated he got Credits where he expected Dubloons. WG agreed they messed up and fixed it. Nekrodamus  is happy.

We have no evidence to say that this has happened to all users that have been in the scenario of Getting the Gallant when they already have her.. The German and English forums would be very Vocal if this happened and we have no posts (that i can find) on either. apart from Nekrodamus  So unless you are saying that Nekrodamus  is the only Forum or Reddit user across all the regions that has been lucky enough to get Gallant after buying her.

The web page still tells us we get a alternative ship. So unless you find a user that did not get a ship but got Dubloons and WG say Tuff Doubloons is all you are getting.

They have not made a false statement

 

 

What i am saying is you have grounds to ask WG to clarify the status of Rewards but NO grounds to call them Liers or claim they are making False staments

[Azrael_Ashemdion]

Got one in a container, same day I bought it, and got the 6.75m then - looking forward to seeing the doubs or a different ship when this event is over.  

 

Az

[T0byJug]

4 minutes ago, Azrael_Ashemdion said:

Got one in a container, same day I bought it, and got the 6.75m then - looking forward to seeing the doubs or a different ship when this event is over.  

 

Az

Much safer to log a support call mate

[zaaaaaaP]

2 hours ago, T0byJug said:

Ok how do you know this? How do you know you have no chance of getting a second ship where is the evidence?
 

 

The "evidence" are multiple players who have received duplicate Gallants, and none of them received a ship. Check the comments on the reddit thread linked above for more people affected.

 

Quote

Nekrodamus  stated he got Credits where he expected Dubloons. WG agreed they messed up and fixed it. Nekrodamus  is happy.

 

From @Nekrodamus's post in the german forum:

 

Quote

Offensichtlich hat es hier technische Probleme gegeben - wofür wir alle Verständnis haben - und ich konnte leider "nur" das Gold für die Gallant erhalten, anstatt eines anderen SC-Schiffes. Letzteres wäre mir ob der Überraschung "beim Auspacken" zwar lieber gewesen, aber ich kann mit der zweitbesten Lösung hervorragend leben.

 

Roughly translated to:

 

Quote

Apparently there were technical problems - for which we all have appreciation - and sadly i could "only" get the doubloons for Gallant, instead of another SC-Ship. I would have liked the latter because of the surprise "when opening", but i can live with the second best solution just fine.

 

 

So even he (since you quote from him so much) says that he did not get any chance at another ship and he would have liked that the most. Is he happy with 4.500 doubloons? Of course, but thats because he actually got one of these containers. If you ask most players to pick between 4.500 doubloons, or any SC premium ship, the more "hardcore" players and collectors would probably go for the ship, where as casual players might tend to like the doubloons more because they dont care about some rare ship or the value. You could also sit down and calculate the average doubloon value of all the ships in the SC loot table, i would bet it is higher than 4.500. But that is beside the point. It was promised a chance at another ship, when in fact there is none.

 

Quote

We have no evidence to say that this has happened to all users that have been in the scenario of Getting the Gallant when they already have her.. The German and English forums would be very Vocal if this happened and we have no posts (that i can find) on either.

 

As i said, check the comments on reddit for more users who did receive only silver credits and if you ask them, they would tell you that they would have liked the chance at another ship more than the doubloons.

 

Or ask @Azrael_Ashemdion right here in this thread how he feels about his chance at another ship. Azrael, do you already own every single premium from the SC loot table? Are you happy about this situation?

 

And there are very few posts about this because the vast majority of players are not aware of it. Does that make it okay?

 

Quote

The web page still tells us we get a alternative ship. So unless you find a user that did not get a ship but got Dubloons and WG say Tuff Doubloons is all you are getting.

 

Find a user? How about hmmm @Nekrodamus? Did he get a ship? Nope. WG Support told him "sorry only doubloons, technical issue".

 

 

Quote

What i am saying is you have grounds to ask WG to clarify the status of Rewards but NO grounds to call them Liers or claim they are making False staments

 

How do you define a false statement?

 

WG still says on the event newspost that Gallant owners first have the chance at another ship, and if that selection fails, then they receive doubloons. If that statement would have been true, then Nekrodamus and others would have received a ship (and some of them maybe doubloons). But when every player i can find has received only the silver credits (and later doubloons through support), and not one has received a ship, i would say that is very strong proof that the statement is false.

 

On the other hand, if you are so keen on defending WG on this, where is your counterproof? Where is a player who did receive another ship from these containers? Can you find one? I can find more players who have not.

 

1 hour ago, T0byJug said:

Much safer to log a support call mate

 

Why not fix the actual problem and correct the statement? Or fix the ingame algorithm to match the statement? Too much to expect?

[xxNihilanxx]

1 hour ago, zaaaaaaP said:

 

Or ask @Azrael_Ashemdion right here in this thread how he feels about his chance at another ship. Azrael, do you already own every single premium from the SC loot table? Are you happy about this situation?

 

 

Better yet, ask the lucky sod how many ships he has had from containers thus far?

[T0byJug]

@zaaaaaaP 

Clarification...

We ask if this is happening to ALL players that have Gallant and win a ship. Or is it just some. As for fixing it and giving them a SC.. That puts WG between a rock and a hard plate. 

give people a SC  guaranteed to give them a ship.. All players that get one that is no perceived as good  or worth less than 4.5k doubloons will claim it was rigged against them and can they have the Doubloons instead. Also programming giving a player a SC is a lot harder than just crediting the account with Doubloons.  Guarantee those players that get the Gifted SC a tier 6+ ship,,, Well that would be just great..

BUT... what about Gremyashchy or Nikolai I, because if I am lucky enough to get a ship that's what I want. 

BUT what if this is not affecting All players in this scenario.. And some players got a Krasny Krym say.. Well if i found out all players that it went wrong fr got a tier 7 to 8 ship I would be pissed.  The only option is to give doubloons.

Before pitch forks ask for clarification 

[zaaaaaaP]

12 minutes ago, T0byJug said:

@zaaaaaaP 

Clarification...We ask if this is happening to ALL players that have Gallant and win a ship. Or is it just some.

 

If you would like to contact ALL players who have a Gallant and received such a container, go ahead... obviously we cannot do that.

 

So far i know 4 players who were affected by this. And not one of them received a ship, they all received silver credits. Can you show me one player who did receive a ship? No?

 

Quote

As for fixing it and giving them a SC..

 

I never said to give them a SC.

 

Quote

That puts WG between a rock and a hard plate. 

give people a SC  guaranteed to give them a ship.. All players that get one that is no perceived as good  or worth less than 4.5k doubloons will claim it was rigged against them and can they have the Doubloons instead.

 

A rock and a hard place where they put themselves. They were the ones who made the promise of first having a chance at a ship, and if that fails, doubloons. For me, people who would then complain that they won a Emden (worth less than the 4.500 D) have zero right to complain. Because then WG would have lived up to their promise. This has nothing to do with getting more or being greedy. Very simply about keeping a promise.

 

Quote

Also programming giving a player a SC is a lot harder than just crediting the account with Doubloons.

 

Again, that is a problem that WG created, not us. They made the promise. How to satisfy those players now? I dont know. First step is to acknowledge the issue, then those players can either contact support individually and get some compensation (if any at all), or WG comes up with a solution that will be applied to all of them.

 

Quote

BUT... what about Gremyashchy or Nikolai I, because if I am lucky enough to get a ship that's what I want. 

BUT what if this is not affecting All players in this scenario.. And some players got a Krasny Krym say.. Well if i found out all players that it went wrong fr got a tier 7 to 8 ship I would be pissed. 

 

As i said, everyone who then would complain about the type of ship they received can just shut the f*ck up, they have zero right to complain about a free ship and the promise by WG would have been kept.

 

Quote

The only option is to give doubloons.

 

The only option is for WG to acknowledge that there is a problem. Then WG can discuss possible solutions.

[Juanx]

3 minutes ago, zaaaaaaP said:

 

If you would like to contact ALL players who have a Gallant and received such a container, go ahead... obviously we cannot do that.

 

So far i know 4 players who were affected by this. And not one of them received a ship, they all received silver credits. Can you show me one player who did receive a ship? No?

 

 

I never said to give them a SC.

 

 

A rock and a hard place where they put themselves. They were the ones who made the promise of first having a chance at a ship, and if that fails, doubloons. For me, people who would then complain that they won a Emden (worth less than the 4.500 D) have zero right to complain. Because then WG would have lived up to their promise. This has nothing to do with getting more or being greedy. Very simply about keeping a promise.

 

 

Again, that is a problem that WG created, not us. They made the promise. How to satisfy those players now? I dont know. First step is to acknowledge the issue, then those players can either contact support individually and get some compensation (if any at all), or WG comes up with a solution that will be applied to all of them.

 

 

As i said, everyone who then would complain about the type of ship they received can just shut the f*ck up, they have zero right to complain about a free ship and the promise by WG would have been kept.

 

 

The only option is for WG to acknowledge that there is a problem. Then WG can discuss possible solutions.

 

Ignore the dude, hes a DG apologist, as has been seen every week.