Tactics

[deBanfield]

I notice that often players have no clue how to achieve a victory which often is hit or miss and every man for himself. They do not seem to know that cooperation and concentration are the keys to a victory. Frequently, players go off half cocked in every direction and no coordination is possible.

I think that with 12 ships in a squadron, a division of 4 is too few. IMHO it is best to divide into two battle groups of 6 ships and attack 2 separate objectives.

The most important thing is not to abandon single ships in your group to overwhelming numbers of the enemy. Many times I have been left to fend for myself against multiple opponents and have lost my ship. The more ships you lose because of outnumbered combat, the less likely you are to win the battle.

Always, concentrate and never abandon. If you want to run, you should give notice so that all the members of the battle group have the choice to run with you or fight on, perhaps, outnumbered.

[Culiacan_Mexico]

1 hour ago, deBanfield said:

...The most important thing is not to abandon single ships in your group to overwhelming numbers of the enemy... 

I believe the most important thing is to know your ships.  To understand its abilities and its limitations, because if you know these, many tactical situations that would lead to losing your ships can be managed or avoid altogether.

[txtspeak]

Know your enemy and know yourself, and the outcome is never in doubt, not in 100 battles.

-Master sun.

 

Know your ship and know that of the enemy

[anonym_yHbO7kUt9ZH4]

It's also important that you have a bit of luck ;)

[Tungstonid]

3 hours ago, deBanfield said:

The most important thing is not to abandon single ships in your group to overwhelming numbers of the enemy. Many times I have been left to fend for myself against multiple opponents and have lost my ship. The more ships you lose because of outnumbered combat, the less likely you are to win the battle.

Always, concentrate and never abandon. If you want to run, you should give notice so that all the members of the battle group have the choice to run with you or fight on, perhaps, outnumbered.

 

Just out of curiosity: Who is at fault when you are left against several opponents? You because you maneuvred yourself into this position and didn't pay attention to your surroundings or your team mates who recognized the disadvantageous position? Just want to know if you are someone who knows when he made a mistake or rather the typical holiday admiral everyone just has to follow or they are stupid.

 

Sure, sometimes a hint by others that they will retreat is desirable. However, if you know that your ship is prone to be left behind because it has the speed of a tectonic plates and a turning circle as big the lunar orbit, yet you don't act accordingly, or if you rushed in without paying any attention to if you actually have backup then it ultimately is your fault.

"Always, concentrate and never abandon" sounds nice and all but I will happenly abandon any team mate, even the top tier BB, if he stubbornly goes up against a clearly superior force without even trying to get out or make use of alternative ways. In the end, one, two or three survivors, and be it "only" the low tier CAs, are better than four or five sunken ships.

[Butterdoll]

big mistake.

the two flanks never have to push forward at the same time.

the other team is attacking to, that means if one flank collapses, the other can't manage to defend base, or will be outflanked.

the attack must be on the enemy's weaker side, with the defensive forces tie the other flank, if that happens, you could execute a pincer manoeuvre to the rest.

And if the attack fails, you give the opportunity to the remaining of that flank to come back to something and avoid total loss and the opportunity to bounce back from the defeat.   

good spotting on the wings it's fundamental to avoid surprises.

being alone or in inferior numbers sometimes renders results, delay actions can mean the difference, I manage to do this today.

we were capping a and b but the adversaries forces were small, so I headed for the other point, 2 ships there, so from mid range I started the delay action, then I retreated with ships in my pursuit I was in trouble then, by the time I was sunk we controlled the two points, capping the third one and the adversary's five remaining  ships were displaced in open water well beyond the capping zones. we won.

If no one went there those ships could do some damage. or even mean defeat.

 

[KarmaQU_EU]

I'll sum tactics up as simple as I could:

 

A good offence is the best defence.

If there is something precious to the enemy, take it away from them. Guard your own precious.

You will depend on others and others will depend on you.

It's not who makes the best decisions, it's who makes the least mistakes.

Rout your enemy. Remember that feeling, and never fear defeat again, even in the face of death. 

[ColonelPete]

On 30/07/2017 at 0:07 AM, Tungstonid said:

 

Just out of curiosity: Who is at fault when you are left against several opponents? You because you maneuvred yourself into this position and didn't pay attention to your surroundings or your team mates who recognized the disadvantageous position? Just want to know if you are someone who knows when he made a mistake or rather the typical holiday admiral everyone just has to follow or they are stupid.

 

Not really.

A BB, a cruiser and a DD move together and attack the middle cap. Two ships of the team move to west border alone, 3 ships are still in spawn and 4 ships attack the east cap.

The cruiser turns around and goes into stealth, the DD gets sunk and that leaves the BB alone at B. 

 

[ShinGetsu]

What the point of these topics when there are still players going D on North with battleships ? In tier X battle.

I mean, we have to start from there. We have to start from explaining people that being useless for 5 minutes with the biggest hitting power and tank ability in the game isn't a good tactic. In tier X. And they still do it.

That's how bad the players are.

 

Another completely obvious thing : your team is winning, you have the caps advantage, and the enemy team is camping. DON'T. FREAKING. PUSH. Just snipe them from safety and prevent recaping, if you starts pushing you get focused from all sides and the cap advantage is void !

 

This is completely obvious, yet there are a good numbers of tier X players that can't graps this. What to do at this point ? I don't know. They don't even have the basics, so any advanced tactics is doomed to fail...

[Lord_WC]

Bollocks.

Have more caps than the enemy. Most players are bad, BBs especially so and they can't contest caps. Just cap everything, BBs will do their usual job of sailing away from any objective and you will win by points.

[philjd]

A few times as a DD, I have been left high and dry by those who used to be behind me, supporting me and preventing the 'rush the DD' tactic - hopefully you realise before it is too late to beat that hasty retreat (had that happen twice yesterday).

 

Tactics -

1) support each other and stay alive but active/effective at the same time. (no point in being in the game if you are alive but not active....and that includes spending most time at a 'pray to rng for a hit' range)

2) know when to "run away!" (Monty Python), I mean 'tactical withdrawal'.

[Fat_Maniac]

Still lots to learn here.

Biggest thing for me right now is knowing when to push and when to disengage. I know its all down to knowing the capabilities of you ship, those of your teammates ships and your enemy, map positioning and situational awareness. And that just comes with experience for me.

I have good games and I have bad games, and I have epic failures. Those epics are the ones I watch on replay so I can confirm or find where I went so badly wrong. Those are the ones I concentrate my learning efforts on at the moment

And then of course there is no way to account for the shear lack of 'ability' you get on your team sometimes, usually weekends and now during the holidays, when all the weekend warriors are out.

[anonym_MfZ6T7iwWpUC]

1 hour ago, Lord_WC said:

Bollocks.

Have more caps than the enemy. Most players are bad, BBs especially so and they can't contest caps. Just cap everything, BBs will do their usual job of sailing away from any objective and you will win by points.

 

Do NOT assume all BB players are the same. I get tired of people like you, who do not look in the mirror often enough and ask yourself if you are doing everything for the team or just assume its always the big guys fault.

 

If I am chugging along in my 21knt BB and you have shot off in your DD/CA at full speed, I am vulnerable because I cant catch up. That puts in doubt any assistance I can give you because there is nobody to watch my back. It also makes me think hard about moving in and out of islands on my own as my visibility is impaired, so I could become a sitting duck. That will make me consider going around (and not through), which takes longer still. If I am isolated (for what ever reason) I will act completely different to if I am in a group. If I doubt my teammates resolve to stay with me, I will hesitate before fully committing myself as I will be isolated with no way out. I will get focused and wont survive, especially if I don't have any rear turrets.

 

As a BB player I am more than happy to go forward with you, but a) I need you to slow the hell down b) I need you to stay with me when the going gets hot c) I need you to watch my back. If you do all that, I will stay with you and take as much heat away from you as I can.

 

Figuratively speaking, if you are not prepared to die for me, why should I die for you?

[warsinger2]

One flank pushes with the majority of ships, the other flank delays with a handful of ships. People however need to have an understanding about what is required.

If you are pushing, do push, do not turn around and if you do, make sure someone else takes your place, if you run into the main enemy fleet, inform the other flank, try to encourage them to push while you duke it out with the main fleet, hoping your other flank manages to break through and attack the enemy main force from behind. Otherwise you break through and catch the fleet on the other flank from behind while capping. Just one example.

 

However all this is for naught if people are afraid of having the paint of their ships scratched, camp behind islands and are afraid in general. This goes especially for BBs.

What is there to lose? This is a game, a game I play to have fun, if you are afraid of bad stats, well just hide them. There is actually no sane reason to play like a coward.

Tirpitz "sniping" from 18 km, never moving further from their spawn point than 3 km, this is just lunacy.

Therefore I have said it numerous times already and will repeat it even more often, reward mechanics for BBs need to change, less XP and creds for damage done, more XP and creds for damage tanked! WG must promote aggressive game play for BBs or nothing will change. If you get crap rewards for sniping people will sooner or later try other tactics and maybe drive more aggressively. This does not mean you should Leeroy Jenkins your ship of course!    

[Lord_WC]

2 hours ago, atlasapl said:

Do NOT assume all BB players are the same. I get tired of people like you, who do not look in the mirror often enough and ask yourself if you are doing everything for the team or just assume its always the big guys fault.

I'm not assuming.

If every BB player would be the same I would have 100% WR not 60%. However by far the biggest margin of them are bad, so tactics aiming using this knowledge are easy to grasp and are the most effective.

[Prospect_b]

1 hour ago, Lord_WC said:

I'm not assuming.

If every BB player would be the same I would have 100% WR not 60%. However by far the biggest margin of them are bad, so tactics aiming using this knowledge are easy to grasp and are the most effective.

I run this wowstats thingy. Lord_WC is, in general, right.

That is to say: most players are bad, but the highest number of people in general on any team in the 40-45% WR bracket will be found in the BB class, all the way to tier 10.

Of course there will be other types that bad too, but it is very noticeable.

edit: It could btw be very close to carriers, who also often are extremely bad. (that is, one of the two on either team... and which really needs to be adressed...)

[Tungstonid]

7 hours ago, ColonelPete said:

Not really.

A BB, a cruiser and a DD move together and attack the middle cap. Two ships of the team move to west border alone, 3 ships are still in spawn and 4 ships attack the east cap.

The cruiser turns around and goes into stealth, the DD gets sunk and that leaves the BB alone at B. 

 

 

This is a situation where I'dsay it would be nice to have a warning by allies that they are about to retreat.

BUT: If you always have an eye on the minimap and your allies, you should know when they try to run or get sunk and adapt accordingly. You might still not survive it but sometimes it is enough to delay the enemy, e.g. by kiting.

[deBanfield]

It's good to see that other players are thinking about tactics. Good food for thought.

[Asakka]

I just sail and shoot everything while taking caps. Looks like its working for me

[_Teob_]

I think calling it "tactics" implies that we're at that level of sophistication. A lot of people simply aren't. We're at the "common sense" barrier at the moment.

For example, yesterday, I totally lost my calm in chat on a standard battle on hotspot. 

We were south and at the start of the match, I saw most of my team going west while the enemy team was massing to go through what would be point C in a domination match.

I typed in chat that we have to defend our base and that if we move into positions it's an easy fight (it's always easier to defend than to attack in this game). Everyone except a khaba ignored me. So another DD and I got destroyed on the cap, we also had a cruiser that died like a fly at a fly swatter convention at which point the khaba (who had been the most western ship) got to the cap and was focused down quickly by like 8 enemy ships (that by this time had taken positions around our cap and in the cap itself).

 

I totally lost my cool - I can't remember everything I said, but it wasn't nice. Although in my defense, a Yam did call me a c-word and then he said he couldn't turn (I don't know why) - this only triggered me even more. Of course he could have turned but he was afraid of the enemy ships at like 16-18km.

 

This was a matter of common sense and using the minimap - you see the enemy going toward your cap, you go there... or at least you read chat.

 

I felt bad after for being rude but goddamn was it frustrating - not an excuse though. But my point I genuinely don't understand how people can be like this. I don't think it's difficult, we are not talking competitive-level tactics here just common sense.

[lycea]

Every human is unique, every mindset is different.

Accept this and you will never be frustrated by players that don't play the way you want them to. 

 

 

ps. this excludes vegetables. vegetables don't think, they just float on the seas to wherever the seas take them, like potatoes for example. 

[SDGsteve]

On ‎31‎/‎07‎/‎2017 at 0:10 PM, atlasapl said:

 

Do NOT assume all BB players are the same. I get tired of people like you, who do not look in the mirror often enough and ask yourself if you are doing everything for the team or just assume its always the big guys fault.

 

If I am chugging along in my 21knt BB and you have shot off in your DD/CA at full speed, I am vulnerable because I cant catch up. That puts in doubt any assistance I can give you because there is nobody to watch my back. It also makes me think hard about moving in and out of islands on my own as my visibility is impaired, so I could become a sitting duck. That will make me consider going around (and not through), which takes longer still. If I am isolated (for what ever reason) I will act completely different to if I am in a group. If I doubt my teammates resolve to stay with me, I will hesitate before fully committing myself as I will be isolated with no way out. I will get focused and wont survive, especially if I don't have any rear turrets.

 

As a BB player I am more than happy to go forward with you, but a) I need you to slow the hell down b) I need you to stay with me when the going gets hot c) I need you to watch my back. If you do all that, I will stay with you and take as much heat away from you as I can.

 

Figuratively speaking, if you are not prepared to die for me, why should I die for you?

 

Well nothing can be further form the truth well said ,

 

 

 

[Fat_Maniac]

This game seems like it should be played more like chess.

The more I play the more I see opening moves from one team that should be countered with a particular response from the other.

The more I get to know the maps the more I see strategically important squares which allow you to control movement and interdict the enemy. I allow see areas which if occupied effectively remove you from the game. 

Of course the whole thing is complicated by individual team makeups changing every battle, and of course the biggest unknown if you are not in a div, can I rely on my teammates.

[Xanta99]

Reactions can save the day, even in games that look like a complete disaster.

 I remember a great game on two brothers where we (south) had 2/3 going east and 1/3 holding the west and not pushing too far.  Well it turned out that 1 of our 4 defenders was afk, and two more were demolished fast as a good chunk of enemy came that way.  That left one leander running for his life from a leander, Myoko, gneis, scharn and fuso who were heading right for our cap at speed.  At this point we're down  11-7 in ships and it's looking very very bad.  On the east side however we did react and turn around as soon as we saw what was happening.  Two Gneis, a bayern (me) and a furu got in range as the enemy entered the cap and our leander exploded.  Still looking very bad, not least because our furu lasted 10 more seconds and one of our Gneis took a full spread of red leander torps soon after and blew up.  So Bayern and Gneis vs 3 full HP BBs and two cruisers.  Time to brawl....when 4/5 of the enemy have torps.  Ok well, here we go...

 

We sank them all.  It was just one of those awesome moments you sometimes find in game.  Ok so we were both at 20% afterwards but that was much, much better than I expected.   A special show of appreciation to the full health yet broadside sailing HE firing enemy Fuso who was last, who took  three torps from our Gneis and two citadels from me at the same moment and went from 100% to 0% in 0.3 seconds having done almost no damage to us.  I was actually worried because our HP was so low but he was utterly clueless.  I think I came out of that 4 minute maelstrom with about 180 secondary hits, 120K damage and somehow only ate one torp.

Meanwhile up north all that was left from our push was one Colorado, who had done an amazing job given how outnumbered he was by then with two DDs chasing him and two BBs joining in.  However he was up against three ships (he got a Fubuki) and we were still south in our cap.  It was *gulp* middle time....ok so we knew where all the enemy were and none were anywhere near the middle to ambush us and we HAD to get there, so for once sailing up there was not just justified, but required..  We were still behind on points, the clock was getting low and the Colo was about to die, putting us yet further behind.  At least we're 3-3 again but it's still looking like a loss.

 

Boom the Colo explodes.  Points are now terrible, the clock is at about 2.30 left and to win we need to kill all but one ship and take no losses......we sail out of the channel and immediately citadel a (half dead) broadside BB who dies fast, just as my secondaries take the last 3% off the last enemy DD leaving one New York 10km north who is angled.  But we are 4 points ahead.  All we really have to do is not die.  We're at about 7000hp or so now, the NY is at 90%.  Angle like crazy and pray time.  Either one of us dying would seal it as a loss. Luckily he thinks firing AP at a bow on BB is a good idea.  Bounce, bounce bounce.   Tick tick tick tick tick tick WIN.  

Sit back and wait a few minutes until it's safe to breathe again.  How did we manage that?   I'd say good reactions, a bit of skill and some luck.  It seemed like a guaranteed steamroll, and it wasn't.

[Armorin]

I'm pleased some people see the value in playing in groups, but not just one big group. Take the ring dominance game for example. "Everybody go for A", shouted one captain. I responded, "go for the closest and form a pincer movement." Nobody know what the enemy is going to do, and one flank might get an easy cap whilst the other cap has to fight a holding action (preventing enemy cap) whilst the other flank has one cap and is now able to attack the enemy from the rear.

"But what about sticking together in one group!" shouted the captain. "As long as you don't form a lemming train!" I responded. Unfortunately, the latter becomes a natural formation due to start positions, and lemmings running around in circles might be lucky enough to win to justify there thinking.

On dominance games, I usually take my starting position into account as to which flank I belong on, but so many people seem to go where they want to go, cutting up others and colliding with allies in the process. Sometimes I find myself with very little support and facing an overwhelming enemy when the lemmings have changed direction to follow the majority force. Then I'll play a hold up and prevent cap strategy for as long as possible. Even though the result is usually exploring the seabed, if you have kept a large part of the enemy force occupied whilst the other bases are easily capped, it can be a game changer.