Currywurst/Gneisenau 0.6.8 IFHE secondary build finally worth it?

[Affeks]

Anyone tested this have any opinions?

[tsounts]

I'd say that a secondaries' built is fun on German BBs (particularly from tier 7 and above).  In the end it's always up to the player's personal style.

[Affeks]

16 minutes ago, tsounts said:

I'd say that a secondaries' built is fun on German BBs (particularly from tier 7 and above).  In the end it's always up to the player's personal style.

Yeah sure, thats not really the question here though.

 

THis thread is about whether or not IFHE build on GK or Gneisenau is worth it after the range and reload buff to the 128mm secondary guns on those ships in perticular

[deadly_if_swallowed]

A friend of mine uses IFHE on his Freddy (105mm and 150mm guns, no 128mm) and the penetration buff is enough to make it his main source of damage. Needless to say, he charges in "stupidly aggressive" and hence gets sunk very quickly very often. And he is a lousy shot with the main guns anyway. But the secondary dmg can be quite impressive.

Personally, i would not give up the 4 points though, especially on Gneisenau. She is so much more fun with a pure AA build.

[Affeks]

15 minutes ago, deadly_if_swallowed said:

A friend of mine uses IFHE on his Freddy (105mm and 150mm guns, no 128mm) and the penetration buff is enough to make it his main source of damage. Needless to say, he charges in "stupidly aggressive" and hence gets sunk very quickly very often. And he is a lousy shot with the main guns anyway. But the secondary dmg can be quite impressive.

Personally, i would not give up the 4 points though, especially on Gneisenau. She is so much more fun with a pure AA build.

I find Gneisenau guns to be so underwhelming a secondary build is literally a must.

 

On the other hand though I have tried IFHE on Bismarck and Freddy a few patches ago and the buff is enough to make the 105s pen tier 8 DD hulls and tier 8 BB superstructure, so yeah it helps on those but the fire chance reduction is not worth let alone the 4 extra points wasted. However on with the 128s with IFHE can pen 32mm and 38mm plates meaning the brawling against enemy BBs and even some cruisers just that much stronger especially since BBs are so large and easy to hit targets for secondaries.

[Ferry_25]

I posted another thread about the T10 BB's. I've come to find out Curry isn't that much the close range brawler it's predecessors were. No, I don't mean not a long range sniping BB. But where I found myself very succesfull in creeping up and tanking forward to get as close as reasonably possible in Bayern - Friedrich I suddenly found that tactic isn't working for me in Fat Freddy anymore. So I specced it primary + fire prevention and didn't focus on secondaries. I'm sure people would disagree. But I find it to be working for me. Yes: still tanking but not as aggressive as in previous said BB's.

[Sander93]

8 hours ago, Ferry_25 said:

But where I found myself very succesfull in creeping up and tanking forward to get as close as reasonably possible in Bayern - Friedrich I suddenly found that tactic isn't working for me in Fat Freddy anymore. So I specced it primary + fire prevention and didn't focus on secondaries. 

 

Currywurst secondary spec might not be the perfect build for the ship but at least it's a fun and diverse alternative to the regular long-medium ranged gameplay of the Montana and the Yamato. 

 

I would be very interested to hear about the exact effects of IFHE on these secondaries. 

[Guillotine]

FdG i went survival + main guns first but its too eradic and im testing 2ndary build to get more consistant dmg, not enough games in 2ndary spec but main gun focus is good for tanking and bad for DMG. With TX i will go survivability again since it has enough guns to negate that dispersion.

[anonym_MfZ6T7iwWpUC]

I had my Amagi on full secondary build for a while, but I only had 2 real epic games that were down to the secondary guns (poor visibility and pot luck). Currently deciding if I should go main+fire prevention or concealment.

[Guillotine]

36 minutes ago, atlasapl said:

I had my Amagi on full secondary build for a while, but I only had 2 real epic games that were down to the secondary guns (poor visibility and pot luck). Currently deciding if I should go main+fire prevention or concealment.

Consealment in ijn first then fire prevention.

[lycea]

Well if go you full IFHE build (so also with demo expert) then you give up some skills that will help you survive longer, which opens the question: are germans better brawlers with secondary build or with the 'tank' build? 

 

If you check out Aerroons youtube channel, you can find a video of him testing IFHE on his currywurst 

 

For me, I would rather invest in the 'tank' build because it also applies at longer ranges, so it's less situational. 

[Guillotine]

16 hours ago, lycea said:

Well if go you full IFHE build (so also with demo expert) then you give up some skills that will help you survive longer, which opens the question: are germans better brawlers with secondary build or with the 'tank' build? 

 

If you check out Aerroons youtube channel, you can find a video of him testing IFHE on his currywurst 

 

For me, I would rather invest in the 'tank' build because it also applies at longer ranges, so it's less situational. 

Also tank build is better at TX where dispersion is negated by more barrels, same as gneisenau to bishmarck. Did amazing game in 2ndary build FdG ( no IFHE ) without 2ndary spec i would have been sunk faster and with far less impact to the match overall, around 40k dmg with 2ndaries at the end and ~80k with mainguns.

 

I get a feel FdG is really a crossroad for builds, with slight buff to dispersion it would be great with mainguns and do the tanking while punishing enemies. But wild dispersion leads to closer engagement ranges, wich leads to requirement for 2ndaries vs multiple foes or DDs.

[Mucker]

On 24.7.2017 at 8:18 PM, Affeks said:

Anyone tested this have any opinions?

With IFHE you gain the ability to pen 32 mm plates with the 128 mm guns. Whlie it is true that Gneisenau and GKurfürst meet mostly BBs  with this kind of plating, there are other issues that.

First, afaik, secondaries always aim center/center, so if your target is broadside, they'll aim at the midship waterline. Not too many 32 mm plates there i'm afraid. End on is another issue, but the small silhouette coupled with bad dispersion isn't an effective combination either. 

IMO not worth 4 points at all. I'd rather spend them on Adrenalin Rush - probably the same effective boost to the secondaries and all the other benefits for 2 points less, 

[RUSSIANBlAS]

Secondaries should be buffed to max range on Germans and Manual Fire if you can afford it but that's it.

 

Ultimately your main guns will do in one good salvo what your secondaries need minutes of sustained fire to do. The purpose of secondaries is in their name, they're not your main source of damage. Don't forget German BB guns have pretty good close range penetration (I don't know the stats but they're pretty much on par with 16" guns when close in).

[Sander93]

I've been testing the IFHE secondary build on GK for a few matches now. It really melts US and IJN battleships (15,5k damage to angled Iowa in about 30 seconds). 

 

However, as far as I'm aware the bow armor on US and IJN battleships (and a small area of the KM ones) is also the only area that IFHE secondaries have an effect on. All cruisers/dds get penetrated by the secondaries anyway (except Mosvka's and Khaba's ridiculous 50mm plating ofcourse because Russian, but even IFHE won't do anything there). 

 

So the IFHE secondaries do great against bow-in IJN and US battleships but those are rarer than the KM battleships anyway. The question is if sacrificing 4 points for a pretty situational skill is really worth it. 

[Mydgard]

We tested in training room IFFH GK vs. GK, Yamato, Montana, IFFH skill is more worse than without. Lower fire chance ergo fewer fire damage and don't hit normally much more. Exactly, Yamato killed GK and kept half of his HP, so IFFH secondary build is a piece of sh*t.

Test distance 7.5 km between ships.

 

IFFH GK lost all pvp against non-IFFH built BBs.

[Sander93]

You tested it when both ships were broadside to each other?

[Mydgard]

37 minutes ago, Sander93 said:

You tested it when both ships were broadside to each other?

Both ships were totally parallel, 7.5 km distance between them. All pvp tested with this method. We used damage control party + only secondaries hit + all ships were secondary build, manual secondary, basic and advanced firing training.

[Sander93]

Well the IFHE secondaries don't do much against broadsided ships because then they'll mostly hit the armored belt which they can't penetrate. 

 

The power of the IFHE secondaries is that they can penetrate the bow and stern armor of the IJN and USN BBs and some parts of the KM BB bow/stern, when they are sailing head-on to you or when they're bow-on camping. 

Do the same test with the Yamato facing you with its bow or stern and it will quickly melt. 

As demonstrated by this video: 

 

This makes the skill rather situational though.

[SirAmra]

I moved away from a complete secondary built when grinding the Grosse. Times when BBs wanted to brawl was few and far inbetween for it to be justified. I went for accuracy built and with flags I still retain 9,6km range on my secondaries. And with AR u put out lots of hurt those times stuff get into range. Just my 2 cents.

But, I still remember me and a division mate played our Tirp when it got buffed, and we met 2 Bis. 4 ships with massive secondaries at same cap. We all laughed so hard from all the shells flying in the air.

[WingedHussar_Adler]

I tested it over 50 battles. It is not wort it. It cost 3 tier 4 skills and it still does low dmg 10k max in 200 hits and still with camping meta you can use it in limited times or you need to rush forward and get focusedkilled first. 

 

Tank build still will be much more useful for team and you will live longer and do more dmg (by living longer).....secondaries are nice gimmicks and half usefull but to expensive and too situational and to low dmg to full spec to them (ifhe)

[Strategikon]

Well... in my experience with the Kurfurst the secondary build is a must. Beyond that is fun as hell seeing DD's panicking when venture too close.

[Redcap375]

Screw BB's! Am I the only one that uses secondary guns on cruisers or DDs only. Its the perfect "get out of my face" weapon.

 

I really can't make up my mind chaps regarding IFHE. I have it on my bis,sharn and freddy. I'm sure it melts DDs and cruisers quicker but does it make a difference?? Would it pen them anyway? Got fed up doing the math's and just have them because.

[deadly_if_swallowed]

15 hours ago, Redcap375 said:

Screw BB's! Am I the only one that uses secondary guns on cruisers or DDs only.

 

Heh. Yesterday I met a Hindenburg with full secondary build, so for a moment I read that wrong :) I presume you use your BB secondaries to target DDs and CA/CLs tho

[Redcap375]

2 hours ago, deadly_if_swallowed said:

 

Heh. Yesterday I met a Hindenburg with full secondary build, so for a moment I read that wrong :) I presume you use your BB secondaries to target DDs and CA/CLs tho

 

Oh yeah, could have read it like that. Been writing off a pad, just not the same as a good old keyboard!I did mean against CA/DD. I did look at the Hind for a secondary build But not got round to it, fire starter?

 

Anyway, i use them against cruisers and keep the big guns fixed on BBs. They melt it seems. I tend to do alot of multitasking in German BBs and I only play them one way. In your face son.

 

I can't stand camping BBs that sit at the back and lob shells. What's the point in all that HP? Leaving cruisers to do all the dirty work.

 

The Freddy with secondary mod (20%) and all the rest is fun to play. 11.5 km of secondary death. But the camping meta at high tiers are showing so the next step up will be boring. No one pushes and teamwork is painful.