Harekaze's Captain Skills

[Sukasaa]

I wanted a good Captain build for Harekaze I am using the 3rd Hull. =)

[tank276]

Dont own the ship, since I own most of the other DDs though, I would recommend :

Priority Target, Last Stand, Super Intendent and Concealment expert for the first 10 points.

From there on you can go Survivability Expert, Demo Expert, Adrenaline Rush and Preventive maintenance to reach 19 points.

[Robber_Baron]

Here sre also some tips: https://forum.worldofwarships.eu/topic/83196-hsf-harekaze-build-suggestions/

[ShinGetsu]

27 minutes ago, tank276 said:

Dont own the ship, since I own most of the other DDs though, I would recommend :

Priority Target, Last Stand, Super Intendent and Concealment expert for the first 10 points.

From there on you can go Survivability Expert, Demo Expert, Adrenaline Rush and Preventive maintenance to reach 19 points.

Survivability Expert as a first 3 point skill. Not second.

[mtm78]

I have +- 70% in her now, and I didn't pick SE because I am using my Akizuki captain in her ( also using the best hull, with the 100mm  ).

 

I think I would like to make it even more of a DD bully, I mean that is how I been playing mine and it's fun and effective. Sure, not farming a lot of damage, but 5.4km concealment and 3x2 100mm daka daka on a ship which can actually turn and evade torps if needed? It's probably my new 'most played ship' for the future.

 

I've beaten Fletchers already, yes it sucks that your hp pool is so low but SE is what, 400 per tier, so 8x4 = 3.2k extra. Sure would help in a DD vs DD fight, I'm probably going to respec at some time, but with the B hull you need IFHE to fight other DD's which are higher tier. If otherwise I would probably go for an ultimate DD bully and equip WallHack™

[ShinGetsu]

51 minutes ago, mtm78 said:

I have +- 70% in her now, and I didn't pick SE because I am using my Akizuki captain in her ( also using the best hull, with the 100mm  ).

 

I think I would like to make it even more of a DD bully, I mean that is how I been playing mine and it's fun and effective. Sure, not farming a lot of damage, but 5.4km concealment and 3x2 100mm daka daka on a ship which can actually turn and evade torps if needed? It's probably my new 'most played ship' for the future.

 

I've beaten Fletchers already, yes it sucks that your hp pool is so low but SE is what, 400 per tier, so 8x4 = 3.2k extra. Sure would help in a DD vs DD fight, I'm probably going to respec at some time, but with the B hull you need IFHE to fight other DD's which are higher tier. If otherwise I would probably go for an ultimate DD bully and equip WallHack™

I'm at 12 points right now, waiting patiently to get my 13th and 14th in order to spec it with IFHE. Right now I'm spamming AP and that works very well considering 90% of the DDs in the server play broadside in a DD vs DD duel.^^

 

I specced it with PT, LS, SE and CE for now. With the 100 of course. I'll get IFHE next, then AR, and last but not least TAE. 

16.1k HP is great, seriously. That's a 20% improvement over your base HP. Also I love that 9.4 km range. It's awesome to disappear the second you killed your DD opponent because nobody else is in your range.

[Sukasaa]

I am currently using 

 

Priority Target - Last Stand - TAE - CE

I am using (B Hull.) I honestly like this Hull more than C one now. So which skills should I get  from here on ? :)

[Lord_WC]

2 hours ago, mtm78 said:

I've beaten Fletchers already, yes it sucks that your hp pool is so low but SE is what, 400 per tier, so 8x4 = 3.2k extra. 

That's 25% bonus hp.

[ShinGetsu]

I suggest this build for hull B :

http://shipcomrade.com/captcalc/1000000000000011011000000010000119

But I REALLY insist you get Survivability Expert. It's a 21% improvement ffs ! Biggest benefit you'll ever get from a skill !

 

AP are surprisingly effective on broadside battleships. You're doing almost the same output as a Fiji I'd say. Instead of doing 4-5k every 8 seconds you get 1500-2500 every 3 seconds.

 

And IFHE is obligatory in order to fight other DD effectively. When they broadside you can just wreck them with AP, but if they angle they are useless.

[Sukasaa]

2 minutes ago, ShinGetsu said:

I suggest this build :

http://shipcomrade.com/captcalc/1000000000000011011000000010000119

But I REALLY insist you get Survivability Expert. It's a 21% improvement ffs ! Biggest benefit you'll ever get from a skill !

 

Ap are surprisingly effective on broadside battleships. You're doing almost the same damage overtime as a Fiji I'd say. Instead of doing 4-5k every 8 seconds you get 1500-2500 every 3 seconds.

Ermm why I need IFH thing if I use AP shells? .-. just wondering I will get  SE when I get more points. :3

[ShinGetsu]

Just now, Sukasaa said:

Ermm why I need IFH thing if I use AP shells? .-. just wondering I will get  SE when I get more points. :3

As I said, AP are effective only on broadside target.

Say you're in a duel against a Benson. It has 19mm armor almost everywhere. 100mm penetrate 16.6mm with HE. If the Benson is broadside, you just wreck him with AP. He has no chance and you can even kite him easily.

If he angle, your AP are useless, and your HE can't penetrate the 19mm armor. But with IFHE you get 21.6 mm penetration.

[Sukasaa]

2 minutes ago, ShinGetsu said:

As I said, AP are effective only on broadside target.

Say you're in a duel against a Benson. It has 19mm armor almost everywhere. 100mm penetrate 16.6mm with HE. If the Benson is broadside, you just wreck him with AP. He has no chance and you can even kite him easily.

If he angle, your AP are useless, and your HE can't penetrate the 19mm armor. But with IFHE you get 21.6 mm penetration.

Thanks for pointing that out :3! 

[Nechrom]

Personally I find that investing in the guns on the Harekaze is kind of pointless. Sure you can get them a bit more effective against other DDs, but the horrible range disqualifies them for use against anything else.

Using AP with the 100mm is more than enough to deal with DDs who get close. Even angled DDs have superstructures and while that's significantly harder to hit, it's enough for a ship which is going to want to disengage from a fair fight anyway.

 

I play her like a scout/torpedo boat, using the low gun range to my advantage when other DDs come knocking. As soon as they smoke up, I disappear as well.

She has way too low health and even with the most gun-focused build not much to compete with USN or RU DDs. So you stay hidden, spot and torp. Until you find yourself a low health DD, then you quickly burst them down with AP and disappear.

 

Amazing ghost ship.

[Commander_Cornflakes]

2 minutes ago, Nechrom said:

She has way too low health and even with the most gun-focused build not much to compete with USN or RU DDs.

With SE and IFHE she can even outgun a Benson in a one-on-one.

[mtm78]

1 hour ago, Lord_WC said:

That's 25% bonus hp.

 

As I said, for a dedicated captain I would probably respec, I normally only use SE on my VMF DD's. 

 

But yeah, 25% is quite a lot. 

 

edit:

 

15 minutes ago, Nechrom said:

Personally I find that investing in the guns on the Harekaze is kind of pointless.

 

Tell that to the Fletcher and Benson's I've gunned down  

[Nechrom]

14 minutes ago, Commander_Cornflakes said:

With SE and IFHE she can even outgun a Benson in a one-on-one.

 

6 minutes ago, mtm78 said:

Tell that to the Fletcher and Benson's I've gunned down  

 

Except both have more health and higher DPM than the Harekaze even under optimal conditions, and that's without them needing to spend 4 point on IFHE.

 

So yes, if you are better enough of a player you can probably take on a Benson or a Fletcher on full health. But assuming that the other DD player is a potato can be very dangerous.

They hold the actual numbers advantage.

[Lord_WC]

18 minutes ago, mtm78 said:

As I said, for a dedicated captain I would probably respec, I normally only use SE on my VMF DD's. 

I honestly can't imagine a scenario where I wouldn't pick that skill on a DD. Especially on japanese DDs which have the lowest hp.

 

18 minutes ago, mtm78 said:

Tell that to the Fletcher and Benson's I've gunned down  

I also find the harekaze pretty counterproductive. I mean if you want a torpedo boat a kagero is still better - there's not enough CV (and the AA isn't so hot on it either) to warrant the worse torpedoes. And if you want to gunboat the leningrad is simply superior (which tears up harekazes btw - not like it's a big feat since it tears up basically anything it meets).

For captain training there's always the fujin/kamikaze R which are simply awesome.

[mtm78]

That is the thing, you have the superior concealment and you should always already be kiting away when you open fire. A USN destroyer which is stupid enough to try and chase you is a dead one if he persists even with the low hitpoints ( in my experience ). 

 

Sure I also lost to a Benson which chased me and cornered me close to an island so I couldn't kite away, but that is me getting outplayed 

[Lord_WC]

8 minutes ago, mtm78 said:

That is the thing, you have the superior concealment and you should always already be kiting away when you open fire. A USN destroyer which is stupid enough to try and chase you is a dead one if he persists even with the low hitpoints ( in my experience ). 

 

Sure I also lost to a Benson which chased me and cornered me close to an island so I couldn't kite away, but that is me getting outplayed 

You can't kite a leningrad though.

Again, I'm not debating that you can kill bensons and stuff, I am saying if you want a half-assed torpedo boat that gunboats you could pick a leningrad which does the job far better.

Also, personal opinion, russian captains are much more captainy than japanese ones. I mean they have beards and stuff.

[Sukasaa]

1 minute ago, Lord_WC said:

personal opinion, russian captains are much more captainy than japanese ones. I mean they have beards and stuff.

Lol A good beard is a worthy Beard. :3

[mtm78]

4 minutes ago, Lord_WC said:

You can't kite a leningrad though.

Again, I'm not debating that you can kill bensons and stuff, I am saying if you want a half-assed torpedo boat that gunboats you could pick a leningrad which does the job far better.

Also, personal opinion, russian captains are much more captainy than japanese ones. I mean they have beards and stuff.

 

The torps are bad yeah, and when on low hp it's pretty shitty to have to play crippled Kagero since you can't engage in gunfights. I still think all IJN torpedoes could use a concealment buff. Also, the captain of the Harekaze having a beard would be mildly disturbing  

 

 

[Lord_WC]

20 minutes ago, Sukasaa said:

Lol A good beard is a worthy Beard. :3

If they would see the beard of my leningrad captain I would have at least 10% higher win rate.

 

16 minutes ago, mtm78 said:

The torps are bad yeah, and when on low hp it's pretty shitty to have to play crippled Kagero since you can't engage in gunfights. I still think all IJN torpedoes could use a concealment buff. Also, the captain of the Harekaze having a beard would be mildly disturbing  

Concealment buff would mean your target has less time to react.

That's the main problem, if your detection range is too small the target can't react (say hello to accelerated gearing torps), if it's too large your torps will be spotted en route and everyone will just dodge it. WG really need to separate en route spotting somehow. If nothing else aerial spot range of torps should be less (generally, DDs need a buff anyway).

[mtm78]

1 minute ago, Lord_WC said:

Concealment buff would mean your target has less time to react.

Yup. WG justifies the difference because IJN has highest alpha and highest flooding chance, but it's detrimental to the enjoyment of playing the DD's if you so often land so few torps because they are spotted so early. Ofc, Harekaze uses the bad torps to start with, but still. 

[Lord_WC]

8 minutes ago, mtm78 said:

Yup. WG justifies the difference because IJN has highest alpha and highest flooding chance, but it's detrimental to the enjoyment of playing the DD's if you so often land so few torps because they are spotted so early. Ofc, Harekaze uses the bad torps to start with, but still. 

I somewhat disagree with you.

Reaction time is nearly the same for IJN and USN torps. The problem is that IJN torps are faster, so they have higher spot range, and they will be spotted on their way to the target. I think this results in much more misses than the marginally higher reaction time.

That's why I said that a general concealment buff would have the (unintended) result of the target having less time to react what would amplify the buff of concealment. However separating on the way spotting range (or at least getting spotted by planes) would target the problem area without having unintended results.

[mtm78]

While there are a lot of planes in the air, I don't think changing the whole spotting mechanic would be worth the effort in comparison with just slightly improving IJN concealment on torpedoes. Also, I think spotting torpedoes is something a CV should be able to do, as it's another 'skill' or gameplay aspect they need to learn.