[UFQ] _AbleArcher83_ Beta Tester 2 posts 17,724 battles Report post #1 Posted July 17, 2017 Hey guys, since the past few weeks (2-3 i think) I have had a significant increase of matches where either my team or the enemy went full on "lemming train mode". The outcome was at least most questionable, but most of the time the team which went lemming train mode lost the match. In the past the teams at least would try to go for 2 caps, but now it seems they all just follow one ship and yolo into the battle? Have you guys similar experiences? How do you cope with your team going "lemming train mode"? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[HU-SD] Prospect_b Players 2,655 posts 14,214 battles Report post #2 Posted July 17, 2017 lemming train can be viable in certain situations/maps IFF (if and only if) the lemming keeps pushing. Most time it doesn't, comes to a halt and starts jerking off. What your priest didn't tell you is that jerking off not only leads to hairy palms and a straight way to hell, it also loses matches. How do I cope? Dependent on ship. In a DD I'll practice zenmeditation to prevent launching torps at friendlies and try to take another direction. Any other ship really has no choice than to follow the lemming I'm afraid. In a BB in that situation, maybe you can continue the push by leading by exemple. I have seen quite some stopped lemmings win anyway, because enemy charged one by one. So never abandon all hope: enemy can be even more stupid than friendlies... 8 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[-SBG-] ColonelPete Players 38,559 posts 19,178 battles Report post #3 Posted July 17, 2017 I rarely see teams going only for one cap. Most of the time one or more ships go for the other caps. Depending on map, going for one cap is bad. On maps where you already own a cap, it works fine, unless you forget to defend your initial cap. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[RONIN] 22cm Beta Tester 6,377 posts 36,667 battles Report post #4 Posted July 17, 2017 18 minutes ago, PzychoPanzer said: lemming train can be viable in certain situations/maps IFF (if and only if) the lemming keeps pushing. Most time it doesn't, comes to a halt and starts jerking off. What your priest didn't tell you is that jerking off not only leads to hairy palms and a straight way to hell, it also loses matches. Jerking off in group in public is a felony and punished by the law. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[HU-SD] Prospect_b Players 2,655 posts 14,214 battles Report post #5 Posted July 17, 2017 3 minutes ago, 22cm said: Jerking off in group in piblic is a felony and punished by the law. Anonymity on the internetz is priceless. so, when doing it solo it is allowed. What country you from? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[B0TS] philjd Beta Tester 1,806 posts 7,738 battles Report post #6 Posted July 17, 2017 A lemming train only comes into being when an overwhelming concentration of force meets up with the possibility of getting paint scratched and starts to dither pointlessly. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[SICK] Exocet6951 Weekend Tester 5,151 posts 11,809 battles Report post #7 Posted July 17, 2017 Lemming trains have always been a viable (and frankly the only good) tactic for 12v12 randoms if done right. Unlike a game in which you can tank without taking damage, and holding off an enemy in a slight numerical superiority is a possibility, in this game it's not. So if you split up too much, you'll face too many enemies and will either end up running away or dying, both end up with a net lose for your side. On the other hand, a "lemming train" that steamrolls one side and keeps on steamrolling correctly is incredibly hard to stop, and can only be countered by DDs throwing torp walls and playing the caps, pressuring the lemming train to break up. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[POI--] aidenthedestroyer Players 767 posts 7,825 battles Report post #8 Posted July 17, 2017 I had this experience today in my Hiryu. Half the team went for the C cap and everyone else just went to A. Long story short, we got rolled. How do you cope with this ? Just kill as many as you can because people dont listen to people. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[UFQ] _AbleArcher83_ Beta Tester 2 posts 17,724 battles Report post #9 Posted July 17, 2017 2 minutes ago, aidenthedestroyer said: I had this experience today in my Hiryu. Half the team went for the C cap and everyone else just went to A. Long story short, we got rolled. How do you cope with this ? Just kill as many as you can because people dont listen to people. Yeah, completely splitting up is also bad. I just dont get why the team doesnt split more or less equaly and focuses two neighbouring caps... I feel that with this tactic you are most likely to achieve map control and thus win the match. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[SLAPP] lameoll Players 1,792 posts 10,834 battles Report post #10 Posted July 17, 2017 1 hour ago, _AbleArcher83_ said: The outcome was at least most questionable this is because most of the players do not know how to deal with it. they either charge in afraid to turn and die. OR they instantly turn around at the wrong time and proceed to be nuked and losing half or more of their hp in the turn. and when it does not work its because the lemming train stops all of a sudden and then they get surounded. iif i see a lemming train i just kite them let them all follow. even if i die they spend a lot of efford in the process to kill me and i probably do more damage to them then they to me. most of the times my team insta dies on the side im not on.causing a roflstomp .getting trains multiple games gets a bit annoying tho. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[SCRUB] Aotearas Players 8,460 posts 13,076 battles Report post #11 Posted July 17, 2017 A lemming train is a concentrated blob of ships, that's a lot of shared firepower and HP, nothing wrong with that. If that blob pushes hard, it's going to simply roll over inferiour opposition, which is good. If that blob is gragging their feet and turning around scared shitless because there's a DD around, then it's going to get chipped away whilst the enemy can leisurely secure the objective, which is bad. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[NKK] valrond Beta Tester 884 posts 12,999 battles Report post #12 Posted July 17, 2017 1 hour ago, Exocet6951 said: Lemming trains have always been a viable (and frankly the only good) tactic for 12v12 randoms if done right. Unlike a game in which you can tank without taking damage, and holding off an enemy in a slight numerical superiority is a possibility, in this game it's not. So if you split up too much, you'll face too many enemies and will either end up running away or dying, both end up with a net lose for your side. On the other hand, a "lemming train" that steamrolls one side and keeps on steamrolling correctly is incredibly hard to stop, and can only be countered by DDs throwing torp walls and playing the caps, pressuring the lemming train to break up. Agreed, lemming train is a much better tactic than "everyone do whatever you want to do". I just have a game like that in my FdG, the enemy did a Lemming train to C, our team scattered, they picked us one by one with focused fire. An average tactic is a lot better than no tactics at all. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[L4GG] Butterdoll Players 3,470 posts 11,414 battles Report post #13 Posted July 19, 2017 well, I've been in many battles with the presence of the lemmings parade, soon I see this I now we are going to loose, badly. I don't get it. I simply refuse to take part of it. the major problem it's not to stop or when it stop. the major fault in this tactic, it's the flanking manoeuvring by the enemie that remains unchecked. Splitting the forces more than two flanks is bad, but sometimes when the fight over two caps is fierce, a ship or two can probe the third cap, many times left forgotten to cap it, with that I'm fine. What to do? After all attempts to stop the lemmings parade. Do many points, the most that you possibly can do until the fat lady stops singing Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[BAD-A] xxNihilanxx Beta Tester 2,018 posts 13,254 battles Report post #14 Posted July 19, 2017 On 17/07/2017 at 5:45 PM, _AbleArcher83_ said: Yeah, completely splitting up is also bad. I just dont get why the team doesnt split more or less equaly and focuses two neighbouring caps... I feel that with this tactic you are most likely to achieve map control and thus win the match. True, with five exceptions that I can think of. A&C is probably the most viable starting tactic on Solomon Islands, Strait and Fault Line as these maps are so small that going for B will lead to an early trip back to port on the majority of occasions. On Estuary and Two Brothers the team needs to split evenly for both A&D with one flank switching to a fighting defense if they encounter a lemming train coming down either flank. In that case the flank that is facing the lemming train should kite the enemy and reposition to the spawn cap as soon as possible as that tends to provide the best cover from which to hold off the push and also allows the friendlies on the other flank to either push around after securing their cap or, better still, join the team at spawn to meet the enemy. Of course, this requires a DD to go each side as torps can help turn back/slow down lemming train pushes easier than anything else. If the team has less than two DDs then it is time to pray that the enemy are terrible. As far as lemming trains as a tactic go these are actually viable in practice so infrequently that it is not really worth trying. They generally, in a group of randoms, have about as much chance of success as sailing up the middle in Two Bros. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[-SBG-] ColonelPete Players 38,559 posts 19,178 battles Report post #15 Posted July 19, 2017 A cannot help C on Solomon Islands. A-B or B-C is better, unless you think plowing into the middle channel is a good idea. If you ignore B, the enemy can get through and get you from behind. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[BUSHI] Odo_Toothless Players 5,402 posts 24,784 battles Report post #16 Posted July 19, 2017 Most games whith lemming train is due MM place huge amount of below average players in such team. In 70-90% it's lost game becouse not an idea of mass assault but concentration of bad players. They happily push even to empty cap and soon got sourrounded by enemy DD which capped others. And the final question what can do 20 knots US BB, which hopelessly lag behind and are smashed to pieces from behind without any "team" help. "Lemming train" could work if ex. moved to one flank, smash enemy there and got cap and next return to second flank and do the same. Pushing into "emptiness" in circle movement often is ending in having all the time only one cap and fast lost on points. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Isalani Players 160 posts 9,857 battles Report post #17 Posted July 19, 2017 Depends on the class how I deal with it. I tend to play cruisers mostly: I find myself dragging my feet usually when the team trains to one cap. If the enemy faces our team with most of their ships (both lemming to the same cap) I often go elsewhere to try and cap an objective/flank the enemy while covering our flank. If the enemy have split off or lemming to another cap then ours, I'll hang back a bit, supporting the ships in the back (slow BB's) while protecting the open flank as well as I can. At the very least I try to stop DD's from flanking our train ;) In a BB I'm pretty much doing the same. Staying at mid range from cap so I can support, while keeping an eye on the flank, and getting myself ready to push tot he adjacent cap when the train starts breaking up. Or I'm spearheading and tanking if the team trained after me. In a DD I'll either smoke the train while spotting, or in a torp dd I'll try and torp so the enemy has to show broadside to the train while they dodge them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[CLADS] lycea Players 152 posts 16,068 battles Report post #18 Posted July 19, 2017 1 enter a match. 2 seeing all lemmings push 1 flank together. enemy holds 2 out of 3 caps by that time. friendly DD's dead because they got no support on the other side of the map. 3 one enemy DD gets briefly spotted near the lemmingpush and the whole lemming push turns into a lemmingretreat because dodging a few torps every minute is SOOoo scary. 4 lose by points because enemy holds 2 caps, or because the lemmings get pincered. myeah it can turn out differently but it all depends on a few individuals that -depending on the role they play: - lead the charge without getting killed, taking the heat for the rest of the lemmings - blocking the enemy push from the other side of the map without getting overwhelmed and killed - DD's that recognize when they have to give up a cap instead of die trying to take it without support Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Titan_net Players 120 posts Report post #19 Posted July 19, 2017 I hate this anti "Lemming Train" whining. Staying together as a team has to be the most import tactic in a naval game because having more guns equals win. Overextending Completely ignoring the caps No recon, no screens Leaving slow ships behind to die or leaving the base undefended Are specific failings that can and should be addressed. But simply crying "It's A Lemming train, I hate you" is annoyingly stupid. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
anonym_MfZ6T7iwWpUC Players 1,139 posts Report post #20 Posted July 19, 2017 Lemming train is only viable, if they continue to move together and sweep through the map. If, on the other hand, they move to one side of the map and then just hand around, then no its not a viable tactic. Keeping your momentum going is vital. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[-SBG-] ColonelPete Players 38,559 posts 19,178 battles Report post #21 Posted July 19, 2017 Depends on gamemode... Moving on is bad in standard battle as it exposes you base. And there are some domination maps were moving back and forth between your bases is smarter than moving on and start a merry-go-around. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[BUSHI] Odo_Toothless Players 5,402 posts 24,784 battles Report post #22 Posted July 19, 2017 24 minutes ago, Titan_net said: I hate this anti "Lemming Train" whining. Staying together as a team has to be the most import tactic in a naval game because having more guns equals win. Overextending Completely ignoring the caps No recon, no screens Leaving slow ships behind to die or leaving the base undefended Are specific failings that can and should be addressed. But simply crying "It's A Lemming train, I hate you" is annoyingly stupid. Problem is when all at once go to one cap and nobody is talking about strategy and thinking about defending the rear in most cases means just lost game on points and even fast slaughter. When I see this I know "team" average must be very low and this is an excuse to hide and run from real fight and going after objectives. The best target for such "push" is empty space. How many times I capped ex. empty A and said all go to B !!!, but hell no - 3/4 of "team" still is going into A, while fight is starting around B now. This knowledge that there is not enemy around, makes this place very tempting to camp and watch how others try to save the game. As an excuse is given this argument as you stated: "Staying together as a team has to be the most import tactic in a naval game because having more guns equals win", but the more I hear that in a chat - the worse stats of such players. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mtm78 Alpha Tester 19,378 posts 6,105 battles Report post #23 Posted July 19, 2017 30 minutes ago, Titan_net said: I hate this anti "Lemming Train" whining. Staying together as a team has to be the most import tactic in a naval game because having more guns equals win. Overextending Completely ignoring the caps No recon, no screens Leaving slow ships behind to die or leaving the base undefended Are specific failings that can and should be addressed. But simply crying "It's A Lemming train, I hate you" is annoyingly stupid. Winning what? Engagements? So what, doesn't do you much good in domination when you 'kill everything at D' while ignoring all the other caps because you lemming train. Also, new account, 25 posts and most importantly Quote This user profile is private. Notice the differences with most of the people disagreeing with you. I love lemming trains on enemy team, let's me cap in peace and then farm some blob off concentrated ships somewhere. edit: Also, sometimes when you see people be salty in chat about lemming trains, it's the people complaining in the wrong. But sometimes, those people are usually correct. It's a minority though, because the people who are usually right have given up on team chat because most of them know it's effort wasted. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[-SBG-] ColonelPete Players 38,559 posts 19,178 battles Report post #24 Posted July 19, 2017 In my opinion, topics like these are just fails as they completly ignore map and game mode specific tactics and just generalise. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mtm78 Alpha Tester 19,378 posts 6,105 battles Report post #25 Posted July 19, 2017 Well the biggest generalization is the term 'lemming train', some people think a lemming train is any concentration of ships moving together when it's only an actual lemming train when they stop on first engagement when they should push, or when they push when being engaged when they should disengage. Other than that, @Titan_net is right as well and basically said the same. Maybe the topic should be left to rest in peace as it's not constructive unless specified. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
