Kutuzov is almost OP

[Favuz]

PREMISE: I am not a unicum nor a potato, i am an average joe by all means, 51% WR, sometimes i go top on the scoreboard, sometimes in the bottom half, i've got ships in which i perform decent, othrs in which i can't perform at all

 

That said

 

I am a cruiser main, and casually my first line are russian cruisers;

Currently i am at the Chapayev, 50k xp to the Donskoi, anyway i have played about 100 games in it, with average results.

Saw the Kutuzov on sale at a decent price and decided to pick it, as a captain trainer and credit earner.

 

It's only my second premium ship (got the Duca when released, he's a fun ship but results are mixed with her).

 

Slapped my 14 pts IFHE Captain on him, and played 4 matches.

 

1st match: 40k damage without Landing a single shell on a BB, only sitting in my smoke and shooting cruiser and dd in the nearby, like a RN cruiser, all while destroying 4 full squadrons of a Ryujo who didn't notice me in smoke.

2nd match: 113k damage and my 2nd overall witherer

3rd match: 108k damage

4th match: 40k damage potatoing.

 

 

Let's compare Chapayev with Kutuzov

 

Chapayev Has

-Nice Radar

-0.8km Concealment less when fully specced

 

Kutuzov has (in increasing order of importance)

-3000 HP more

-Extremely Good AA (better than very good Chapa)

-8km usable torps instead of 4

-Smoke instead of radar

-19.1km range instead of 17.3 upgraded Chapa)

 

and the most important thing

Handling

 

Weak points of all Russina Cruiser is Handling, they turn like a BB

 

Kutuzov turns almost like a Fiji, while retaining the good guns and all the upgrades over Chapayev.

 

Never played Tirpitz or Belfast, but to me this is the most close to P2W ship i've ever seen

If you have ever played a Russian Cruiser, it is disgustingly strong.

 

 

 

 

[ImperialAdmiral]

If Kutuzov is OP then what Charles Martel is? XD

 

Kutuzov suffers a lot from Błyskawica syndrome.

Player needs to be good to actually make those ships work.

Majority of time though this ship either dies first or last since player was sniping from all across the map without any results.

[dasCKD]

Kutuzov is a little too powerful, but then almost all premiums are. To be honest, the Kutuzov is fine. She's not blatantly overpowered like the Saipan, Belfast, or the Black. She has notable advantages over her tech tree counterparts, but they don't break the game. She's one of the few premium ships that I am honestly fine with WG not nerfing if (not when) they ever grow a pair.

[IVebastien]

not op at all ... no really the firepower is ridiculous (especially with IFHE). If you compare it to the edinburgh for exemple, it's better in every aspect except the concealment and 0,5s of RoF. 

[BIG6969]

Saipan is not OP, not in the hands of average joes. It is only considered OP if it's in the hand of a very good player AND WHEN YOU HAVE AN INCOMPETENT CV PLAYER ON YOUR OWN TEAM. 

[philjd]

42 minutes ago, Favuz said:

 

(got the Duca when released, he's a fun ship but results are mixed with her).

 

Does this mean that the Duca swings both ways, bats for both sides..isn't sure whether it is a kilt or a skirt etc? ..sorry couldn't resist. 

 

And I am rubbish in my Kutuzov so far.

[Gojuadorai]

2 hours ago, Favuz said:

Kutuzov is almost OP

 

 

FTFY

[SirCaitlynJenner]

One of the best ships in the game imo. It does not care about mm. Great at kiting as it is and smoke just makes farming easy. I tend to play it a bit too agressive at the start of the match but "high risk high reward" style really pays off especially when you slap AR on it. Probably the best purchase you can make if you like cruisers

[ClappingLollies]

WG said that HE on RN CL's would be OP. Guess they forgot about Kutuzov.  Saying that, she is not Belfast OP. But she is one of those ships that does not suffer from T10 MM all the time. 

[Allied_Winter]

Kutuzov, the only ship (so far) that I can reliably farm Witherers (almost predicting it when I see the matchup). 

 

But defo needs more balans comrade. How about better armour and longer smoke da?

 

 

Greetings

[Exocet6951]

What I really dislike about the Kutuzov is that it has absolutely no weakness, no real disadvantage.

I don't mind it being deadly with IFHE, as it's not a Kutuzov problem, it's an IFHE problem and not the topic at hand.
I don't mind her having 19km range or smoke, or top kek AA.

What I mind is that unlike other Russian cruisers who compensate their 4x3 152mm with great range and fire chance, and their high speed by absolutely awful maneuverability and generally only okay AA, the Kutuzov gets the best AA and very good maneuverability.
In fact, the only thing in which she's well below average: concealment, is in large part mitigated by having smoke.

 

I mean, surely WG could have given her ONE actual weakness.
Even the Martel, which I consider to be iffy in terms of balance has the decency of being not great in terms of AA and a very poor rudder shift time which pushes you to take the -40% rudder shift module.

[1MajorKoenig]

Picked her up at the Summersale as I thought she would be borderline OP playing against her. Now after my first impression I have the feeling she's even more than that  and straight overpowered :-)

 

Only weakness is lack of brawling capabilities but she is a cruiser so who cares.

[ShinGetsu]

Why "almost" ?

 

- Awesome torps

- Can't tank sh#t but nobody cares anyway

- Awesome handling

- Decently fast

- Decently stealthy

- Smoke

- Awesome AP

- Awesome HE

- Incredible range

- No fly death zone even without being specced in AA

 

I love that cruiser. Best way to relax after being nuked by RNG on a standard cruiser.

[lameoll]

1 hour ago, Exocet6951 said:

What I really dislike about the Kutuzov is that it has absolutely no weakness, no real disadvantage

its a squishy cruiser thats the disadvantage. the aa is op the dpm is op smoke is great for that ship and the range.

but u can still 1 shot it with a bb even in a smoke. good players know how to position tho and Then it will probably not have a disadvantage :P

[Squidpusher]

One weakness with the Kutuzov is that, while she is good at sinking DDs, she's not particularly good at hunting them down, with no planes or radar, and only a very short range hydro (of equiped). 

 

She's also a bit on the large side. And squishy. 

 

But I don't know if I would call her OP, or just somewhat closer towards what cruisers should be. I mean, with all this whining about the underperformance of the entire class. 

[lameoll]

6 minutes ago, Squidpusher said:

But I don't know if I would call her OP,

nah she is idd OP in the right hands kutuzov (apart from the armor) is basicly  a T10 not a T8.

Still i dont mind with all the bbs these days camping annyways.

[Prospect_b]

"Almost" 

 

Sure, she is a little less "almost" OP tier by tier compared to missouri/black/saipan/belfast... I'll give you that.

 

The amount of non-OP premium ships is quite limited. Eugen would be the one that immediately springs to mind (but that is compensated by her OP prizing). Maybe Duca? (don't have her). And tier 5 ships like marblehead and that russian BB, but that has more to do with ret@rded mm.

[GulvkluderGuld]

5 hours ago, dasCKD said:

Kutuzov is a little too powerful, but then almost all premiums are. To be honest, the Kutuzov is fine. She's not blatantly overpowered like the Saipan, Belfast, or the Black. She has notable advantages over her tech tree counterparts, but they don't break the game. She's one of the few premium ships that I am honestly fine with WG not nerfing if (not when) they ever grow a pair.

 

 

Kutuzov is the only cruiser that is as OP as Belfast (or even more, considering Belfast has very limited range). The only other ship in the same league is the Saipan.

I'm excluding the Ranked reward ships Flint and Black as they arnt generally available. Belfast has a weakness: AA. Kutuzov just doesnt have one.

 

Or to put it another way: Kutuzov is one of only 3 HE spammers with a smoke, the other 2 being Belfast and Flint.  And not even Belfast can smoke while going full speed and remain smoked.

 

Kutuzov could use a radar though ..... wonder when they give it Chapayev Radar? 

[Procrastes]

I've never been able to make the Kutuzov work, but given the opinion of the forum/player majority, that is almost certainly due to me not being able to play her to her strengths.

[El2aZeR]

5 hours ago, operationalpha said:

Saipan is not OP, not in the hands of average joes. It is only considered OP if it's in the hand of a very good player AND WHEN YOU HAVE AN INCOMPETENT CV PLAYER ON YOUR OWN TEAM. 

 

You're joking, right?

 

Remember when Kutuzov was actually performing better than pre-nerf Mogami (aka one of the most overpowered cruisers of all time) in the hands of a skilled player when she came out? WG actually stated that they were not satisfied with her statistical performance as a reason for her buff after they nerfed BFT/AFT.

One can only conclude from that that her overperformance is actually wanted by WG.

[CaptainThunderWalker]

3 hours ago, Exocet6951 said:

What I really dislike about the Kutuzov is that it has absolutely no weakness, no real disadvantage.

I don't mind it being deadly with IFHE, as it's not a Kutuzov problem, it's an IFHE problem and not the topic at hand.
I don't mind her having 19km range or smoke, or top kek AA.

What I mind is that unlike other Russian cruisers who compensate their 4x3 152mm with great range and fire chance, and their high speed by absolutely awful maneuverability and generally only okay AA, the Kutuzov gets the best AA and very good maneuverability.
In fact, the only thing in which she's well below average: concealment, is in large part mitigated by having smoke.

 

I mean, surely WG could have given her ONE actual weakness.
Even the Martel, which I consider to be iffy in terms of balance has the decency of being not great in terms of AA and a very poor rudder shift time which pushes you to take the -40% rudder shift module.

Well, Kutuzov is good, and Martel is iffy (though I doubt it's much better than the Atago, if at all), and Chapayev and Edinburgh are fine too.

But I think it's actually that these ships are balanced. And all other Tier VIII cruisers just need a buff of some sort.

 

Note that I don't speak out of experience, though. But just looking at the complaints the Eugen and Hipper get, or the New Orleans even... and Mogami just looks like a strictly worse Atago unless you have an IFHE captain.

 

[Exocet6951]

1 minute ago, CaptainThunderWalker said:

Well, Kutuzov is good, and Martel is iffy (though I doubt it's much better than the Atago, if at all), and Chapayev and Edinburgh are fine too.

But I think it's actually that these ships are balanced. And all other Tier VIII cruisers just need a buff of some sort.

 

Note that I don't speak out of experience, though. But just looking at the complaints the Eugen and Hipper get, or the New Orleans even... and Mogami just looks like a strictly worse Atago unless you have an IFHE captain.

 

 

I don't actually have anything fundamentally against the Kutuzov, I just think that it could have done with either one actual weakness, or just tweaking some more stats so it's a bit more average in some aspects.

I object to the Martel because it's essentially a tier9 cruiser without a heal compared to other tier 8 CAs.
I wouldn't mind if all tier8 cruisers were brought up to its level as it would probably be the best possible thing for them, but as it stands, I consider the Martel to be superior in all but useful consummables (read: radar).
Atago being a different beast because of the heal.

[principat121]

Kutuzov is soviet-russian and thus per definition never OP.

 

Some ships are more balanced than others!

[Desteban]

I think you guys just sold me on a Kutuzov...

[CaptainThunderWalker]

45 minutes ago, Exocet6951 said:

 

I don't actually have anything fundamentally against the Kutuzov, I just think that it could have done with either one actual weakness, or just tweaking some more stats so it's a bit more average in some aspects.

I object to the Martel because it's essentially a tier9 cruiser without a heal compared to other tier 8 CAs.
I wouldn't mind if all tier8 cruisers were brought up to its level as it would probably be the best possible thing for them, but as it stands, I consider the Martel to be superior in all but useful consummables (read: radar).
Atago being a different beast because of the heal.

Isn't the Charles Martel allowed to have better stats to be balanced to offset the lack of Smoke (Kutuzov), Radar (New Orleans/Chapayev) or Heal (Atago)?