Commonwealth Tree Cruisers

[Iron_Walls]

The problem with getting enough cruisers was primarily due to the fact that most were in the same class.  I was able to find 9 tiers and that by using the Leander class from the RN tree and the fact the Leander class Leader was the HMNZS Leander. The other was the HMCS Ontario was the ex-HMS Minotaur . I suggest for a replacements a Tiger class ship to replace the Minotaur is now going to be tier 9 and the Tiger was a improvement on it. Leander there are several classes that could be used to replace it at tier 6. Players who own these ships would have them replaced with their new tier ships or transfer them to the Commonwealth tree.

 

 

 

                                 Cruisers                                                                               Battleships                                                      Premium ships 

Tier 1                        HMAS Encounter       PC Challenger/Protected cruiser             x                   

    
Tier 2-                         HMCS Niobe           PC Diadem class/Protected cruiser        x                                   

Tier 3                          HMNZS Philomel,    CL Pearl-class cruiser                            x                                               
             

 

Tier 4                          HMAS Pioneer        CL Pelorus-class light cruiser                 x
      
                                      
Tier 5                          HMAS Adelaide      CL Town-class light cruisers                   x  

Tier 6                          HMNZS Leander*(1) CL    Leander class                              x                                                                      Perth , 

Tier 7                          HMAS Shopfort      CA     Colony class/london sub-class     x                                                                     Canberra

Tier 8                          HMCS  Uganda       CL   Crown Colony Class                     x                     

Tier 9                         HMCS Ontario *(2)   CL   Minotaur  Class                            x 

Tier 10                        

*(1) The Leander was a RNZ ship so a replacement is requird in the British Cruiser tree.

*(2) The HMCS Ontario is the ex-HMS Minotour. I suggest its replacement with a Tiger class ship. 

** Player who own these ships would have them replaced with their replacement or transfer them to the Commonwealth tree.

[CommanderCorrigan]

Need some Canadian ships!

[LastButterfly]

Wooo. Er, pardon me if I start saying some insanities because I'm not the most knowledgeable in these ships but...

Minotaur was... a fancy Fiji, wasn't she ? For TIX that's pretty overtiered, isn't it ? And Fiji is Crown Colony.
It's not that i'm against having copies of ships that are already in a British tree in the Commonwealth tree, (it'd be impossible without it anyway). but... The tiering will ask for way too much buff or nerf if done like that won't it ?

[Jellicoe1916]

Id love to see HMAS Canberra (D33) in game

[Trainspite]

The commonwealth can't manage any cruiser higher tier than 6 or 7. 

Quite a few premiums, maybe some Free XP, but nothing gets beyond tier 7. 

 

RAN:

- Pioneer (T2)

- Adelaide (T3)

- Encounter (T3)

- Perth/Hobart (T6)

- Canberra/Shropshire (T7)

- Cockatoo Cruiser Design (T7)

 

RCN:

- Niobe (T3)

- Quebec/Ontario (T6)

 

RNZN has Achilles, but given Perth, she is redundant, especially since most would probably prefer a premium Ajax for the RN anyway. 

[creamgravy]

The light cruisers are sweet.

 

Tier 5 - HMNZS Achilles (1944) AA light cruiser.

6 x 6" guns, 2x4 6km torpedoes.

Defensive fire replaces spotter/fighter plane.

 AA

Achilles (1944)	DPS	Range (km)
102 mm/45 QF Mk XIX (4)	38	5
Mk III Bofors (4)	30	3.5
40 mm Vickers 2-pdr. Mk VII (4)	56	2.5
‎20 mm Oerlikon (5x1, 5x2)	48	2

 

Tier 6 - HMAS Hobart (1945) AA light cruiser.

8 x 6" guns, 2x4 torpedoes.

Defensive fire replaces spotter/fighter plane.

AA

Hobart (1945)	DPS	Range (km)
102 mm/45 QF Mk XIX* RP52 (4)	60	5
Bofors Mk1 (3), Mk3 (5)	71	3.5
40 mm Vickers 2-pdr. Mk VII (2)	28	2.5
Oerlikon (2x1, 1x2)	13	2

 

Tier 6 Reward premium - HMAS Sydney (1941) Standard cruiser.

8 x 6" guns, 2x4 10km torpedoes.

A standard cruiser with no smoke or heal but with a 15km gun range, HE/AP and 10km torpedoes.

AA

Sydney (1941)	DPS	Range (km)
102 mm/45 Mk V (4)	10.8	3.5
‎20 mm Oerlikon Mk IV ??	7	2
12.7 mm Mk III (3)	6.6	1.2

 

Tier 7 - HMCS Ontario (1941) AA light cruiser.

9 x 6" guns, 2x3 10km torpedoes.

Adds defensive fire and HE to Fiji setup.

AA

Ontario (1946??)	DPS	Range (km)
102 mm/45 QF Mk XIX* (5)	75	5
Bofors Mk III (13)	98	3.5
40 mm Vickers 2-pdr. Mk VII (4)	56	2.5

 

Tier 8 - Didn't Australia have a super Dido planned or something?

 

 

[cracktrackflak]

Why not make all of the Commonwealth ships premiums in the RN line, or have them as tier options within the RN tech tree?

 

That would only reflect historical reality, after all (all of these navies were specifically set up to operate as divisions within the overall global RN fleet & base structure) - and it solve the terrible continuity and training issues that you get in single/double-ship lines.

 

Grinding a Perth or Blysk captain from a zero/three start is a real chore without a silver line to progress through. Its going to be years before WG populates Poland/ Asia/ Commonwealth/ Italy/ etc with complete tech trees.

 

[Fat_Maniac]

1 hour ago, creamgravy said:

The light cruisers are sweet.

 

Tier 5 - HMNZS Achilles (1944) AA light cruiser.

6 x 6" guns, 2x4 6km torpedoes.

Defensive fire replaces spotter/fighter plane.

 AA

Achilles (1944)	DPS	Range (km)
102 mm/45 QF Mk XIX (4)	38	5
Mk III Bofors (4)	30	3.5
40 mm Vickers 2-pdr. Mk VII (4)	56	2.5
‎20 mm Oerlikon (5x1, 5x2)	48	2

 

Tier 6 - HMAS Hobart (1945) AA light cruiser.

8 x 6" guns, 2x4 torpedoes.

Defensive fire replaces spotter/fighter plane.

AA

Hobart (1945)	DPS	Range (km)
102 mm/45 QF Mk XIX* RP52 (4)	60	5
Bofors Mk1 (3), Mk3 (5)	71	3.5
40 mm Vickers 2-pdr. Mk VII (2)	28	2.5
Oerlikon (2x1, 1x2)	13	2

 

Tier 6 Reward premium - HMAS Sydney (1941) Standard cruiser.

8 x 6" guns, 2x4 10km torpedoes.

A standard cruiser with no smoke or heal but with a 15km gun range, HE/AP and 10km torpedoes.

AA

Sydney (1941)	DPS	Range (km)
102 mm/45 Mk V (4)	10.8	3.5
‎20 mm Oerlikon Mk IV ??	7	2
12.7 mm Mk III (3)	6.6	1.2

 

Tier 7 - HMCS Ontario (1941) AA light cruiser.

9 x 6" guns, 2x3 10km torpedoes.

Adds defensive fire and HE to Fiji setup.

AA

Ontario (1946??)	DPS	Range (km)
102 mm/45 QF Mk XIX* (5)	75	5
Bofors Mk III (13)	98	3.5
40 mm Vickers 2-pdr. Mk VII (4)	56	2.5

 

Tier 8 - Didn't Australia have a super Dido planned or something?

 

 

I quiet like the sound of these. 

[Iron_Walls]

21 hours ago, LastButterfly said:

Wooo. Er, pardon me if I start saying some insanities because I'm not the most knowledgeable in these ships but...

Minotaur was... a fancy Fiji, wasn't she ? For TIX that's pretty overtiered, isn't it ? And Fiji is Crown Colony.
It's not that i'm against having copies of ships that are already in a British tree in the Commonwealth tree, (it'd be impossible without it anyway). but... The tiering will ask for way too much buff or nerf if done like that won't it ?

No the Minotaur is a separate class and is currently the RN 10th tier cruiser.  Yes the Uganda is also a Crown Colony ship.  In the case of Uganda it would be simply to exchange tiers with the Shopfort, so both Crown Colonies cruisers are at tier 7.

[Iron_Walls]

9 hours ago, creamgravy said:

The light cruisers are sweet.

 

Tier 5 - HMNZS Achilles (1944) AA light cruiser.

6 x 6" guns, 2x4 6km torpedoes.

Defensive fire replaces spotter/fighter plane.

 AA

Achilles (1944)	DPS	Range (km)
102 mm/45 QF Mk XIX (4)	38	5
Mk III Bofors (4)	30	3.5
40 mm Vickers 2-pdr. Mk VII (4)	56	2.5
‎20 mm Oerlikon (5x1, 5x2)	48	2

 

Tier 6 - HMAS Hobart (1945) AA light cruiser.

8 x 6" guns, 2x4 torpedoes.

Defensive fire replaces spotter/fighter plane.

AA

Hobart (1945)	DPS	Range (km)
102 mm/45 QF Mk XIX* RP52 (4)	60	5
Bofors Mk1 (3), Mk3 (5)	71	3.5
40 mm Vickers 2-pdr. Mk VII (2)	28	2.5
Oerlikon (2x1, 1x2)	13	2

 

Tier 6 Reward premium - HMAS Sydney (1941) Standard cruiser.

8 x 6" guns, 2x4 10km torpedoes.

A standard cruiser with no smoke or heal but with a 15km gun range, HE/AP and 10km torpedoes.

AA

Sydney (1941)	DPS	Range (km)
102 mm/45 Mk V (4)	10.8	3.5
‎20 mm Oerlikon Mk IV ??	7	2
12.7 mm Mk III (3)	6.6	1.2

 

Tier 7 - HMCS Ontario (1941) AA light cruiser.

9 x 6" guns, 2x3 10km torpedoes.

Adds defensive fire and HE to Fiji setup.

AA

Ontario (1946??)	DPS	Range (km)
102 mm/45 QF Mk XIX* (5)	75	5
Bofors Mk III (13)	98	3.5
40 mm Vickers 2-pdr. Mk VII (4)	56	2.5

 

Tier 8 - Didn't Australia have a super Dido planned or something?

 

 

No,  The Sydney and Hobart are the the same class as the premium Pert!  The HMNZS Achilles is the Sister ship of the HMNZS Leander of the Leander class.

The Dido class was all RN.

20 hours ago, Trainspite said:

The commonwealth can't manage any cruiser higher tier than 6 or 7. 

Quite a few premiums, maybe some Free XP, but nothing gets beyond tier 7. 

 

RAN:

- Pioneer (T2)

- Adelaide (T3)

- Encounter (T3)

- Perth/Hobart (T6)

- Canberra/Shropshire (T7)

- Cockatoo Cruiser Design (T7)

 

RCN:

- Niobe (T3)

- Quebec/Ontario (T6)

 

RNZN has Achilles, but given Perth, she is redundant, especially since most would probably prefer a premium Ajax for the RN anyway. 

Sorry , but you are just wrong.   The Ontario was the ex-Minotaur which is tier 10 currently in the RN line. The Uganda is the same Crown Colony class as the Fiji at tier 7 in the RN tree!.  There was no Cockatoo cruiser.  The Perth is already a premium and the Canberra was a promo premium so will probably will be added as a premium.  The RNZN cruiser, HMNZS Leander was the name ship of that class and is currently tier 6 in the RN line.  All NZ cruisers were the Leander class and they had 2 of them.  The Leander and Achilles!  The RN had 3 Leander class cruisers.  They were classed as the Leander Group

The Amphion  sub- Group consisted of the Perth ex-Amphion, Hobart ex-Apollo , and the Sydney . The Pert is already a Premium ship so adding one of the 2 amphion sub-group in the regular tree is unlikely.

 

[Trainspite]

29 minutes ago, Iron_Walls said:

 

Sorry , but you are just wrong.   The Ontario was the ex-Minotaur which is tier 10 currently in the RN line. The Uganda is the same Crown Colony class as the Fiji at tier 7 in the RN tree!.  There was no Cockatoo cruiser.  The Perth is already a premium and the Canberra was a promo premium so will probably will be added as a premium.  The RNZN cruiser, HMNZS Leander was the name ship of that class and is currently tier 6 in the RN line.  All NZ cruisers were the Leander class and they had 2 of them.  The Leander and Achilles!  The RN had 3 Leander class cruisers.  They were classed as the Leander Group

The Amphion  sub- Group consisted of the Perth ex-Amphion, Hobart ex-Apollo , and the Sydney . The Pert is already a Premium ship so adding one of the 2 amphion sub-group in the regular tree is unlikely.

 

 

 

Nope I'm not wrong, HMS Minotaur in game is the Minotaur Design ZA (Or Z4) from 1946/7. She is equipped with 5 of the twin autoloading 6"/152mm turrets as found on the later Tiger class. The HMS Minotaur transferred to the Canadians was this one. Effectively, a slightly modified Ceylon sub-class of the Crown Colonies. Built from the start with only 9x 6".

 

Uganda was part of the Ceylon sub-class of the Crown Colony class. Instead of the 12x 6" the Fiji sub-class has, she would only have 9x 6", as the X turret from Fiji was deleted. Hence, she is not the same, as she has 1/4 of her main firepower removed right off the bat. Uganda/Quebec & Minotaur/Ontario would require major buffing and consumables to get them to work at tier 7.

 

Cockatoo is an Australian design for a heavy cruiser 9x 8". It's about the most unique ship the Commonwealth would get, given the rest of the ships are RN hand-me-downs. 

 

Perth is already a premium, hence I listed it. 

 

There has been no mention of Canberra at all to my knowledge. She is a mostly unrebuilt Kent sub class of the County class, so would be a better fit for tier 6, while the Australia would be better as a tier 7. Shropshire is a mix of the two, she lacks the armour of Australia, but is more rebuilt than Canberra, receiving significant AA as she survived the war.

 

HMS Leander was built and commissioned as an RN ship, and decommissioned as an RN ship. The Leander class is a British class of cruiser, even if Leander herself was manned by a New Zealand crew from 1937 to 1945. Hence, the class of cruiser is definitely more apt for the RN line, and should not transferred to the commonwealth. Achilles works as a premium however, she is not the lead ship of the RN Leander class, as the lead ship takes the tech tree spot. 

 

It would possible to split the Leander class into two groups, Leander & Amphion, it is nothing I already know, but using the lead ships as the regulars. Perth is already a premium, and rules out a regular Amphion sub-class, at least for the Commonwealth, it would still be technically possible to have a regular HMS Amphion, however pointless it would be.

 

I have to repeat, it is highly unlikely that there will be a commonwealth tree. The line would basically be a line of RN clone ships. The most unique you get are the designs, a few post war ships, and refits/sub classes that were mostly used by the Commonwealth, like the Amphions, which the RN sold.

 

 

[LastButterfly]

3 hours ago, Iron_Walls said:

No the Minotaur is a separate class and is currently the RN 10th tier cruiser.  Yes the Uganda is also a Crown Colony ship.  In the case of Uganda it would be simply to exchange tiers with the Shopfort, so both Crown Colonies cruisers are at tier 7.

 

I know Minotaur is not theorically part of the Crown Colony class, but nevertheless, she's basically a minor upgrade of Corwn Colony isn't she ? I doubt she belongs anywhere above TVIII at most.

 

By the way, if one were to make a Commonwealth tree, wouldn't it be the occasion to use a few heavy cruisers here and there ? It'd at least make it different from the RN branch. DIdn't Canada, Australia and New Zealand had a few of them ?

[Iron_Walls]

The Minotaur was one of the last all gun (no missiles) Light Cruisers, the last was the Tiger class and they were just modified Minotaur class.  The only Heavy cruisers the Commonwealth had was the Australian Country class 3 Kent sub class, when the Canberra was sunk, the RN sent the Shopfort a Country class, London sub class.  All the others were light cruisers

13 hours ago, Trainspite said:

 

.   as were the majority of all Cruisers 5 classes of Heavy cruisers and 24 classes of Light cruisers. The RN classified as Heavy Cruisers based on gun size or over 6.1".                    Bellerophon

 

13 hours ago, Trainspite said:

 

 

Nope I'm not wrong, HMS Minotaur in game is the Minotaur Design ZA (Or Z4) from 1946/7. She is equipped with 5 of the twin autoloading 6"/152mm turrets as found on the later Tiger class. The HMS Minotaur transferred to the Canadians was this one. Effectively, a slightly modified Ceylon sub-class of the Crown Colonies. Built from the start with only 9x 6".

 

HMCS Ontario was a Minotaur-class light cruiser built for the Royal Navy as HMS Minotaur (53) she was laid down in 1941 and launched in 1943.  http://www.wwiivehicles.com/great-britain/ships/cruisers/minotaur-class-cruisers.asp   No mention of any design for the 1946 as even the Tiger class built and originally Minotaur class was considered as obsolete as they were all gun cruisers and was completed in 1959.

 

Uganda was part of the Ceylon sub-class of the Crown Colony class. Instead of the 12x 6" the Fiji sub-class has, she would only have 9x 6", as the X turret from Fiji was deleted. Hence, she is not the same, as she has 1/4 of her main firepower removed right off the bat. Uganda/Quebec & Minotaur/Ontario would require major buffing and consumables to get them to work at tier 7

 

. While I agree that the Uganda should be at tier 6 it would to fill in the tree, have to be put in tier 7 with a buff. The Minotaur then at tier 8 with a  buff.

 

Cockatoo is an Australian design for a heavy cruiser 9x 8". It's about the most unique ship the Commonwealth would get, given the rest of the ships are RN hand-me-downs. 

 The ship design was 1924 copy of the Effingham class. It was decided not to have it produced and instead purchased 1 or 2 County class Kent sub class (they went with 3)

 

Perth is already a premium, hence I listed it. 

 

There has been no mention of Canberra at all to my knowledge. She is a mostly unrebuilt Kent sub class of the County class, so would be a better fit for tier 6, while the Australia would be better as a tier 7. Shropshire is a mix of the two, she lacks the armour of Australia, but is more rebuilt than Canberra, receiving significant AA as she survived the war.

Canberra was one of seven Kent-class cruisers—a subclass of the County-class cruiser. Canberra's wartime service was recognized with four battle honours: "East Indies 1940–41", "Pacific 1941–42", "Guadalcanal 1942", and "Savo Island 1942"  It was also a promo Premium ship for WWS.

 

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HMS Leander was built and commissioned as an RN ship, and decommissioned as an RN ship. The Leander class is a British class of cruiser, even if Leander herself was manned by a New Zealand crew from 1937 to 1945. Hence, the class of cruiser is definitely more apt for the RN line, and should not transferred to the commonwealth. Achilles works as a premium however, she is not the lead ship of the RN Leander class, as the lead ship takes the tech tree spot. 

 

It would possible to split the Leander class into two groups, Leander & Amphion, it is nothing I already know, but using the lead ships as the regulars. Perth is already a premium, and rules out a regular Amphion sub-class, at least for the Commonwealth, it would still be technically possible to have a regular HMS Amphion, however pointless it would be.

The Leander along with Achilles she served in the New Zealand Division of the Royal Navy. In 1941 the New Zealand Division became the Royal New Zealand Navy (RNZN) and she was commissioned as HMNZS Leander in September 1941. for New Zealand players she is important and should be in the Commonwealth Tree.

 

 

 

 

 

 

l

Quote

I have to repeat, it is highly unlikely that there will be a commonwealth tree. The line would basically be a line of RN clone ships. The most unique you get are the designs, a few post war ships, and refits/sub classes that were mostly used by the Commonwealth, like the Amphions, which the RN sold.

 I think it is very possible to have a Commonwealth Tree for Cruisers and Destroyers.  Many were either gifted, lent or sold to the Commonwealth countries as they had no ca-passivity to build them and it was beneficial in economic terms for those Commonwealth countries to crew them and maintain them out of their funds.

 

 

13 hours ago, Trainspite said:

 

[Trainspite]

I don't think you get me. 

HMCS Ontario - ex HMS Minotaur is not tier 10 worthy. She is a slightly modified Crown Colony class, the new Minotaur/Swiftsure class. The Minotaur in game at tier 10, is this design:

The HMCS Ontario is not capable of tier 8 even with buffs. She is effectively the same as HMCS Uganda/Quebec in basically all terms, and therefore only fits the same tiers as Uganda/Quebec. Tiers 6/7. 

 

Cockatoo is not a copy of the Hawkins class cruisers, and doesn't resemble one. The design more closely resembles a modified county class. The RAN did eventually decide on using the Kent sub class Counties instead.

 

Promo-premium ship means nothing when you just say it. I have never seen anyone say definitively that Canberra will be a premium, WG or otherwise, even if she is likely to end up as one. 

 

For British players, she is also important, being the leader of the Leander class cruisers, which served with distinction in the Mediterranean. Achilles maybe, as a premium, but unlikely as a regular. 

 

When I say there will probably not be a Commonwealth line, I am speaking about it not being viable since basically all the ships are far too similar to the RN ships in the RN line. Most people don't tend to like 'clone' ships, even if said ships have some degree of history behind them. So yes, it is technically possible to build a DD line in part for the commonwealth, but it is not viable. 

 

[Iron_Walls]

Quote

  HMCS Ontario is not capable of tier 8 even with buffs. She is effectively the same as HMCS Uganda/Quebec in basically all terms, and therefore only fits the same tiers as Uganda/Quebec. Tiers 6/7.      

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       

The Ontario ex-Minotaur is already at tier 10 in the British line so at tier 8 it should do just fine, also as you know any ship can be made to fit whatever tier they want( by HPs, ROF, range and detection range*(1).) The Canberra was released as a Promo in the past, so it will be a premium when released again. the Minotaur did represent a substantial advance towards more sophisticated weapon control and integration of command and control and AIO and developments towards operation room control of fighting ships. Unlike the Crown colony

Quote

For British players, she is also important, being the leader of the Leander class cruisers, which served with distinction in the Mediterranean. Achilles maybe, as a premium, but unlikely as a regular. 

Leander was launched at Devonport on 24 September 1931. She was commissioned into the RN as HMS Leander on 24 March 1933. Along with Achiles she served in the New Zealand Division of the RN..

In 1941 the New Zealand Division became the Royal New Zealand navy and she was commissioned as HMNZS Leander in September 1941.

So no!   Further the 5 ships of the First group 3 were in the RN, 2 in RNZN and all three of the second group "Amphion", or "Perth" class went to the RAN. So 5 of 8 served in the commonwealth navies. 3 of 8 in the RN.  The Orion, Neptune and Ajax is the most famous (  Battle of the River Plate) and I can see it being a premium cruiser in the RN tree.

 

Quote

When I say there will probably not be a Commonwealth line, I am speaking about it not being viable since basically all the ships are far too similar to the RN ships in the RN line. Most people don't tend to like 'clone' ships, even if said ships have some degree of history behind them. So yes, it is technically possible to build a DD line in part for the commonwealth, but it is not viable.

I disagree every class in my example tree was listed.  The tree doesn't have to be 10 tiers, but easily 7 or 8!  The RN had 5 CA classes and 24 CL classes so clone ships are not really a problem problem.  The Leander class as well as the Minotaur class as By 1944 the 7 Minotaur cruisers under construction represented four different groups, which were significantly different that they should probably be regarded as four different classes of cruiser. The  Minotaur(1), Swiftsure (1) , Superb (1) and Tiger ( 4).

[Trainspite]

22 minutes ago, Iron_Walls said:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       

The Ontario ex-Minotaur is already at tier 10 in the British line so at tier 8 it should do just fine, also as you know any ship can be made to fit whatever tier they want( by HPs, ROF, range and detection range*(1).) The Canberra was released as a Promo in the past, so it will be a premium when released again. the Minotaur did represent a substantial advance towards more sophisticated weapon control and integration of command and control and AIO and developments towards operation room control of fighting ships. Unlike the Crown colony

Leander was launched at Devonport on 24 September 1931. She was commissioned into the RN as HMS Leander on 24 March 1933. Along with Achiles she served in the New Zealand Division of the RN..

In 1941 the New Zealand Division became the Royal New Zealand navy and she was commissioned as HMNZS Leander in September 1941.

So no!   Further the 5 ships of the First group 3 were in the RN, 2 in RNZN and all three of the second group "Amphion", or "Perth" class went to the RAN. So 5 of 8 served in the commonwealth navies. 3 of 8 in the RN.  The Orion, Neptune and Ajax is the most famous (  Battle of the River Plate) and I can see it being a premium cruiser in the RN tree.

 

I disagree every class in my example tree was listed.  The tree doesn't have to be 10 tiers, but easily 7 or 8!  The RN had 5 CA classes and 24 CL classes so clone ships are not really a problem problem.  The Leander class as well as the Minotaur class as By 1944 the 7 Minotaur cruisers under construction represented four different groups, which were significantly different that they should probably be regarded as four different classes of cruiser. The  Minotaur(1), Swiftsure (1) , Superb (1) and Tiger ( 4).

 

Read above. Ontario/Minotaur is not in game. Some ships share the same name, and hence the HMS Minotaur at tier 10 is a design, which I posted above. And while ships can be buffed all over the place, having something so oddly out of place like Ontario at tier 8 or 10 or Yamato at tier 6 is extremely undesirable and unlikely. For in game purposes, and what this game takes account of, Minotaur/Ontario / Swiftsure class / HMS Superb is not different enough from a 3 turret Crown Colony.

 

As I said before, please provide evidence of Canberra being mentioned at all in the game. Maybe you are thinking of a different game, because I have seen no evidence of a County class appearing any time soon.

 

No. There was no RNZN Leander class. Leander was crewed by a NZ crew, and in the RNZN, but handed back to the RN at the end of WW2. She was born an RN ship, and died an RN ship, and while she was used by the RNZN, her place in the RN tree as the lead of the Leander class is fully justified. All 5 ships in the Leander class started with the RN. The RNZN used 2 of them (Leander & Achilles), but both were returned to the RN post WW2. They are RN ships through and through, and while a premium HMNZS Achilles could be considered a possibility, Leander is definitely not, since she is the lead of the class, and the lead of the class almost always takes the tech tree spot for her navy (which is RN, even if the RNZN used her). Orion, Neptune or Ajax are not suitable as they are not the lead of the class. Ajax would make a good premium on her own however. 

 

7/8 of the entire class served in the RN to correct you, the only one that did not was Sydney, since she was sold to Australia before being commissioned as HMS Phaeton. 2 were transferred to the RNZN, before being given back to the RN. Since the RAN triplet were sold, the only survivor, Hobart was not given back to the RN. The class is more significant as an RN design, and given 7 of them served with the RN, they are in the right place in the RN CL tree at tier 6, instead of being solely Commonwealth exclusive.

 

It's like talking to a brick wall at times...

 

As for the Minotaur/Swiftsure class cruisers, Ontario (Ex Minotaur) can be used for the commonwealth, but bear in mind that this ship is basically just a Crown Colony minus 1 turret with improved AA.

 

As I said, the highest tier in cruiser you would probably get up to is 7, maybe 8 at a push if really buff Shropshire or the Cockatoo. But that leaves gaps, such as a tier 4 or 5 cruiser, as there are no suitable candidates for those tiers, unless you want to nerf Achilles into tier 5, which I don't like.  

 

Here, I will list the suitable candidates for Commonwealth cruisers at each tier:

I have left out those which will clash with other ships. You could in theory move each ship up/down a tier, though the thought of Niobe or Encounter at tier 4 makes for going for the Commonwealth ship. 

 

I - Prince David

II - Pioneer, Philomel

III - Niobe, Encounter, Adelaide, Brisbane

IV -

V -

VI - Canberra, Achilles, Perth, Ontario, Quebec

VII - Shropshire, Gambia

VIII -

IX -

X - 

[triumphgt6]

Trainspite is completely correct - the real Minotaur was laid down on 20/11/1941 at Harland and Wolff and given to the Canadian Navy on 25/5/1945. It had 9x6" guns 10x4" dp guns and some more AA guns. It had 6 torpedo tubes. 8000 tons and similar in armour to the Uganda. It could be tier 7 but is not as powerful as the Fiji as these modified Colony class had the X turret suppressed. Better AA though.

The Minotaur seen in game is not related and is a paper ship that was never really built but was a design study that was postulated for after the war.

[Praetorias]

Exactly, why dont people listen to others and research before being so bloody minded. Multiple ships of same name, applied to diff ships and diff classes through history.

[Solo_Wing_Potato]

I can't say I was particularly interested in Commonwealth Cruisers but this thread turned out to be a bit of a gem

 

 

@ OP, just because there was a ship built, called Minotaur, you cant automatically assume that it is the ship we have in the game at T10.........especially when they look nothing alike.  Navies have a habit of reusing names through the years.

 

 

[LastButterfly]

12 hours ago, Trainspite said:

Here, I will list the suitable candidates for Commonwealth cruisers at each tier:

I have left out those which will clash with other ships. You could in theory move each ship up/down a tier, though the thought of Niobe or Encounter at tier 4 makes for going for the Commonwealth ship. 

 

I - Prince David

II - Pioneer, Philomel

III - Niobe, Encounter, Adelaide, Brisbane

IV -

V -

VI - Canberra, Achilles, Perth, Ontario, Quebec

VII - Shropshire, Gambia

VIII -

IX -

X - 

 

Dyou think the Black Prince class from New Zeland could fit at Tier V ? Maybe she'd be a bit too OP AA-wise, so she would fit at tier VI. I'm not too sure.

[Iron_Walls]

54 minutes ago, Ace_Rimmer01 said:

I can't say I was particularly interested in Commonwealth Cruisers but this thread turned out to be a bit of a gem

@ OP, just because there was a ship built, called Minotaur, you cant automatically assume that it is the ship we have in the game at T10.........especially when they look nothing alike.  Navies have a habit of reusing names through the years.

 

 

Okay, I consed that point.  However the ships can be made to fill any tier.  The Prince David for example isn't a cruiser it's a late 40's sloop. 

Quote

No. There was no RNZN Leander class. Leander was crewed by a NZ crew, and in the RNZN, but handed back to the RN at the end of WW2. She was born an RN ship, and died an RN ship, and while she was used by the RNZN, her place in the RN tree as the lead of the Leander class is fully justified. All 5 ships in the Leander class started with the RN. The RNZN used 2 of them (Leander & Achilles), but both were returned to the RN post WW2. They are RN ships through and through, and while a premium HMNZS Achilles could be considered a possibility, Leander is definitely not, since she is the lead of the class, and the lead of the class almost always takes the tech tree spot for her navy (which is RN, even if the RNZN used her). Orion, Neptune or Ajax are not suitable as they are not the lead of the class. Ajax would make a good premium on her own however. 

Let me see if I understand your point, there was no RNZN when the Leander  the RN's in the New Zealand Division of the RN crewed by New Zealanders until 1941 when the RNZN came into being when it was commissioned into the new navy with the same crew! .  You then consider it is a Royal Navy ship?  False, It was a ship gifted to the RNZN, owned by New Zealand, manned by New Zealand and under New Zealand operational control until it was severely damaged in 1943 and was out of the war until it rejoined the RN in 1947 until scrapped in 1950

 

You need to remember that there 6 different forms of Dominion warship ownership/operation!.

1 Ship ordered by dominion, manned by dominion personnel, under Dominion operational control. WWI DD Parramatta. WII, Australia, Canberra, Arunta, Warramunga, Sydney, Perth, Hobart etc.
2 Ship ordered by dominion, manned by Dominion personnel with key RN personnel on loan for command and technical roles, WWI Battlecruiser Australia, WWI CLs.
3 Ship gifted by RN to dominion, owned by Dominion, manned by Dominion and under dominion operational control. Example WWI Encounter, Canadian cruisers, WWII Shropshire, Canadian/NewZealand cruisers.
4 Ship owned by RN, under RN operational control, manned by Dominion and commissioned as a Dominion warship. WWII, N and Q destroyers.
5 Ship owned by RN, under RN operational control, manned by Dominion but commissioned HMS example New Zealand division CLs, early WWII.
6 Ship entirely RN, with Dominion naval personnel on board on exchange, up to and including captain and in various proportions (countless RN capital units and escort carriers).

[dasCKD]

They should just clone the British tree, but give them better armor and HE whilst taking away their smoke.

[1MajorKoenig]

On 17.7.2017 at 1:28 AM, CommanderCorrigan said:

Need some Canadian ships!

 

+1 

 

Oh, Canada! (Eh?)

[MaxxyNL]

Still wating for a HMAS Perth in a SC. 

Was waiting for it in the Summer Sale, but apparently WG hates me and/or does not want my money.

 

 

[Trainspite]

10 hours ago, LastButterfly said:

 

Dyou think the Black Prince class from New Zeland could fit at Tier V ? Maybe she'd be a bit too OP AA-wise, so she would fit at tier VI. I'm not too sure.

 

Nah, I think V is a good fit for the Bellona sub-class. 

 

9 hours ago, Iron_Walls said:

Okay, I consed that point.  However the ships can be made to fill any tier.  The Prince David for example isn't a cruiser it's a late 40's sloop. 

Let me see if I understand your point, there was no RNZN when the Leander  the RN's in the New Zealand Division of the RN crewed by New Zealanders until 1941 when the RNZN came into being when it was commissioned into the new navy with the same crew! .  You then consider it is a Royal Navy ship?  False, It was a ship gifted to the RNZN, owned by New Zealand, manned by New Zealand and under New Zealand operational control until it was severely damaged in 1943 and was out of the war until it rejoined the RN in 1947 until scrapped in 1950

 

You need to remember that there 6 different forms of Dominion warship ownership/operation!.

1 Ship ordered by dominion, manned by dominion personnel, under Dominion operational control. WWI DD Parramatta. WII, Australia, Canberra, Arunta, Warramunga, Sydney, Perth, Hobart etc.
2 Ship ordered by dominion, manned by Dominion personnel with key RN personnel on loan for command and technical roles, WWI Battlecruiser Australia, WWI CLs.
3 Ship gifted by RN to dominion, owned by Dominion, manned by Dominion and under dominion operational control. Example WWI Encounter, Canadian cruisers, WWII Shropshire, Canadian/NewZealand cruisers.
4 Ship owned by RN, under RN operational control, manned by Dominion and commissioned as a Dominion warship. WWII, N and Q destroyers.
5 Ship owned by RN, under RN operational control, manned by Dominion but commissioned HMS example New Zealand division CLs, early WWII.
6 Ship entirely RN, with Dominion naval personnel on board on exchange, up to and including captain and in various proportions (countless RN capital units and escort carriers).

 

- Yes, however HMS Black Swan is also a sloop. USS Erie is a gunboat. Tier 1 is the region of gunboats and sloops and possibly a few frigates even though they are shown as cruisers in game. Hence Prince David is in good company at tier 1.

 

- Eh, you did not quite understand my point. What I am saying is that while Leander as a ship was crewed by New Zealanders throughout the war, she is the lead of the class, the Leander class, which is a significant RN class, having had possession of 7 of the class, building the 8th, and operating them throughout the war. Therefore, the class (and therefore name Leander) should be used in the RN tree, not the commonwealth one. In effect, the RN takes priority for the ship as she represents the class. Even if Leander herself had a more active war career with the RNZN. Achilles as an individual works since she doesn't clash with the RN Leander class. Achilles would also make more sense from a commonwealth point of view, as she was loaned out first, and is a bit more famous.

 

I am also generally opposed to completely siphoning classes of ships off the RN for exclusivity to the Commonwealth. While it might give the Commonwealth ships a bit more selling power, I don't really like that it detracts from the RN. For example, if HMAS Australia (the BC) appeared in game, I would want an HMS Indefatigable to go with it. (or HMS New Zealand, but Indefatigable would be a better choice). So keeping Leander exclusive to the commonwealth at the expense of the RN tree is not something I would want, especially given that she is the existing tier 6 in the RN CL line, and very unlikely to move from that, since she is quite well liked.