Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Ferry_25

French cruiser line. Did I miss something?

29 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

[NED]
Players
4,181 posts
11,672 battles

I highly like the French cruiser grind. Y'day I unlocked and bought Charles Matrel. There is 1 thing which I've noticed in the grind so far. It seems like I am an extremely popular target for the reds. Often I find myself being hunted by 2 or 3 BB's for at least 10 minutes of a match like I am the most leathal ship possible... Had hilarious matches with that: kept them occupied and I could almost hear the screams of frustration when they kept missing on long range because of the excellent speed and maneuvrability, drawing them nicely away from the caps and the main battle so the rest of the team could harvest their friends. So when they did finally managed to sink me and cheer, they saw 3 red caps while seeing no other green icons on the minimap.

Now my question. I can understand Zao, Des Moines and RN cruisers being focussed heavily. And of course: each target is important. Also I understand I could have positioned myself so I was the only visible target. The "hey it's a new shipline ship, so let's kill it" effect should have worn off by now. But things considering: being THAT important and dangerous? I haven't figured that out yet. I have the nagging feeling I missed something. Can you help me or am I only imagining things?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[2137]
Weekend Tester
290 posts
5,212 battles

High tier french cruisers are dedicated long-range HE spammers. People jus hate HE spammers, so they get a lot of attention. Without smoke and with shitty armour, they make a perfect target. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[ST-EU]
Supertester
2,835 posts
4,190 battles

I think the fact you know how to make yourself a difficult target and do well in them doesn't change the fact the overall perception is that they are easy targets. Which is largely true in my experience, big ships with poor armour, decidedly mediocre agility. Obviously I don't tunnel vision on them and look for better targets closer by if they are actually at max range, and definitely don't keep taking shots once it's obvious I missed. But if it looks like their captain isn't on the ball you can usually predict a turn and delete them with some reliability. Reducing the enemy team's firepower in the most efficient way possible is always a big consideration in target selection.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Tester
1,339 posts
5,178 battles

I'm just at the tier 5 at the moment, but I do realise why people focus them. Left unchecked they are very potent damage dealers, and with their incredibly flimsy armor cruisers and DD's love shooting both AP and HE at you. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
3 posts
801 battles

My experience in the french line is mixed. The first 4 are ok even good in places. The fifth feels like a fat destroyer, fast, agile and flimsy. The sixth one feels like a barge in comparison. La Gallisoniere has ok guns but few torpedoes. The shells take ages to get to the target. It is also slow, when not using the speed boost.It is a ship that needs a buff, but probably wont get one.

 

I have not been any higher than tier 6. I hope the next won't feel so bad.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[UTW]
Weekend Tester, In AlfaTesters
8,064 posts
6,701 battles

Algérie is quite good, but not really interesting.

Martel is amazing but I have horrible luck with my team on it. I play it like a russian or japanese cruiser, spamming HE and kiting at long range, it has my best average damage from all my tier 8 cruisers (though my recent average with Kutuzov is probably so damn higher), and where I managed some 55/60%WR with all my tier 8 cruisers with around 45k average, Martel doesn't want to get higher than 47%WR with 65k average... at this point, I call it bad luck. That or the meta changed since I did the grind for Edinburgh.

However, forgetting this issue of "you-can't-win-curse" (slowly getting out of it with clan mates divisions tho) Martel is a very good and very dangerous cruiser. AP are very brutal if you find the opportunity to uses it (blessed a Fiji with a 19k salvo at close to max range yesterday), and the HE are very reliable. Still only a few torpedoes but you can uses the angle to surprise your opponents chasing after you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Tester
990 posts
3,372 battles
3 hours ago, ShinGetsu said:

Martel doesn't want to get higher than 47%WR with 65k average... at this point, I call it bad luck.

 

 

You think that's bad luck? I managed a 40% win ratio with 103,5k average damage before I gave up and free XP'd the Saint Louis.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[UTW]
Weekend Tester, In AlfaTesters
8,064 posts
6,701 battles
2 minutes ago, Sander93 said:

 

You think that's bad luck? I managed a 40% win ratio with 103,5k average damage before I gave up and free XP'd the Saint Louis.

I don't have 68%WR.

But losing 10%average WR while I'm doing more than 20k average more than on my others cruisers is definitely weird. I play Atago the same way, bait the reds the same ways, do the same kind of damage, and yet I have no problem winning with Atago... Why ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[ST-EU]
Supertester
2,835 posts
4,190 battles

If you say you play other ships the same way I don't know, but I had the same issue with Russian cruisers. Huge damage from long range fire spam and kiting but close to zero game impact, as your targets munch your team in the time it takes your damage to build up and you can't threaten or hold a position at all. Now, I haven't played high tier French cruisers but if they are the long range HE spammers that most people claim they are I would think the situation is the same. High damage, low impact gameplay. Atago at least forces you to get a bit closer and that aggression makes people react to you more.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
160 posts
7,447 battles

Playstyle can make some diffirence in my experience.

On the martel I managed 84k average with a 47% winrate.

On st. louis I took sander's advice and shifted things around a bit. I actually have less avg damage now (82k while a tier higher) but I do have 67% in it atm.

I still do the HE spam thingy early on and hope I can start kiting half the enemy team for 10 minutes. But people are catching on and are less likely to take the bait then they used to be ;) However once the game progresses I tend to play way more agressive and use the AP more. Works very well :)

 

Still, I'm not an expert. Maybe I'm on the other side of things and just got lucky with teams =) A sample size of 30 games isn't spectacular either ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[NED]
Players
4,181 posts
11,672 battles

OK, so nothing really definitive about the French cruisers I might have missed I guess. Thanks for the feedback. Am I the only one, btw who is struggling a bit with the shell trajectories? Can't really prove it but to me the shells seem to have a long "horizontal" path and suddenly dropping vertically down. So I often over- or undershoot at the enemy ship flanks where in other lines I have the feeling I would have hit them more often.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
1,008 posts
8 hours ago, Ferry_25 said:

OK, so nothing really definitive about the French cruisers I might have missed I guess. Thanks for the feedback. Am I the only one, btw who is struggling a bit with the shell trajectories? Can't really prove it but to me the shells seem to have a long "horizontal" path and suddenly dropping vertically down. So I often over- or undershoot at the enemy ship flanks where in other lines I have the feeling I would have hit them more often.

 

There is something odd about the flight of French shells. I guess they start out quick, but loose speed quickly. I have trouble adjusting to them when I have played something else for a while.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Tester
1,339 posts
5,178 battles
13 hours ago, atlasapl said:

 

There is something odd about the flight of French shells. I guess they start out quick, but loose speed quickly. I have trouble adjusting to them when I have played something else for a while.

Was this not sort of confirmed a while back? I have not noticed anything on the tier 5, but watching some replays it looks like the higher tier frenchies have a noticable shell drag at longer ranges. This could just be confirmation bias however.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
1,008 posts
2 hours ago, ollonborre said:

Was this not sort of confirmed a while back? I have not noticed anything on the tier 5, but watching some replays it looks like the higher tier frenchies have a noticable shell drag at longer ranges. This could just be confirmation bias however.

 

It was the tier 8 & 9 I noticed it on, last couple of times I played on the PTS.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[L4GG]
Players
1,534 posts
6,233 battles

wining rate has nothing to do with the ship's damage capability's, I think.

but more to do with victories or defeats. To how the team behave.

 

 

perhaps mislead overall perception. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[ST-EU]
Supertester
2,835 posts
4,190 battles
7 hours ago, Butterdoll said:

wining rate has nothing to do with the ship's damage capability's, I think.

but more to do with victories or defeats. To how the team behave.

 

 

perhaps mislead overall perception. 

 

It's true damage is not directly related to win rate, but to just blame it on the team is also wrong.

 

The thing with damage is it depends a lot on WHEN you do it, WHO you do it to and what is the RESULT of that damage plus your other actions. In total that forms part of your game impact, which drives win rate. Usually ships that can do a lot of damage have some other downsides that reduce their total impact.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[10GO]
Players
181 posts
10,071 battles

Baltimore maneuvers to assist in a DD kill at the start of a match, which results in a cap advantage and a snowball to victory. Another cruiser positions defensively and farms 100k fire damage on a Montana and Yamato, which do not die by end of match. Result for Baltimore: 50k less average damage (e.g.) and much higher win rate. It depends very heavily, who you deal damage to and when and if your damage reduces the amound of enemies in the game and especially high threat enemies afloat.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Tester
990 posts
3,372 battles
1 hour ago, Viktor_Slanski said:

 It depends very heavily, who you deal damage to and when and if your damage reduces the amound of enemies in the game and especially high threat enemies afloat.

 

True, and the French cruisers are a prime example of this.

I could easily do over 150.000 average damage in the Henri IV by kiting and burning but I would be at the mercy of my teams for actually winning matches.

Or I can choose to use the ship aggressively from time to time and lower my chances of survival and the average amount of total damage, but secure wins more often. 

 

It's more exciting to play aggressively anyway. 

  • Cool 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Tester
623 posts
380 battles

I haven't played the game in some time now but I'm coming back. I saw that the French are introduced. I watched some videos from The Migthy Jibgles about them and they left confused. What's up with cruiser line in comparison to the British? Why did they buffed them a couple of hours after Jibgles first vidoe?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[-T-O-]
Alpha Tester, Players, In AlfaTesters
2,130 posts
5,893 battles

I like when enemy BB is aiming at my high tier french cruiser. With that boost speed they barely scratch my paint. At least I know my bug boys are safe from him so they have a chance to punish that plonker for trying to hit a fast CA from 17 km +

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[SICK]
Weekend Tester
4,682 posts
9,234 battles
11 hours ago, Ambiorix1032 said:

I haven't played the game in some time now but I'm coming back. I saw that the French are introduced. I watched some videos from The Migthy Jibgles about them and they left confused. What's up with cruiser line in comparison to the British? Why did they buffed them a couple of hours after Jibgles first vidoe?

 

They're completely different to the British.

The French CL/CAs are all about speed and evasion tanking, all while using long range guns.
As far as the branch goes, every ship is either a hit or miss. Some of them are absolutely great and fun (Emile Bertin, Charles Martel), others are just bland and have no real purpose or flavor other than to fill the branch (La Galissonière, arguably Algérie).
 

 

Some of them might have been buffed, depending on when Jingles made his video.
The tier 10, the Henri IV, had a very rocky start in supertesting, and some of the other ships were just plain inferior.
From what I remember, everything below tier7 had a RoF nerf compared to what Jingles showed, and everything tier7 and above had a RoF buff, with a general buff to speed boost as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Tester
623 posts
380 battles
2 hours ago, Exocet6951 said:

 

They're completely different to the British.

The French CL/CAs are all about speed and evasion tanking, all while using long range guns.
As far as the branch goes, every ship is either a hit or miss. Some of them are absolutely great and fun (Emile Bertin, Charles Martel), others are just bland and have no real purpose or flavor other than to fill the branch (La Galissonière, arguably Algérie).
 

 

Some of them might have been buffed, depending on when Jingles made his video.
The tier 10, the Henri IV, had a very rocky start in supertesting, and some of the other ships were just plain inferior.
From what I remember, everything below tier7 had a RoF nerf compared to what Jingles showed, and everything tier7 and above had a RoF buff, with a general buff to speed boost as well.

OK thank you I just couldn't se the difference. But are they singled out as much as I hear ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[SICK]
Weekend Tester
4,682 posts
9,234 battles
8 hours ago, Ambiorix1032 said:

OK thank you I just couldn't se the difference. But are they singled out as much as I hear ?

 

They're rare, annoying,and they're cruisers, so yeah people like to focus them.
Perhaps a bit more than Russian, American and Japanese cruisers, but still less than the horrendously squishy British CLs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[UTW]
Weekend Tester, In AlfaTesters
8,064 posts
6,701 battles

I'm at Saint Louis right now, and I'm enjoying it a lot. It's impressively fast, got great range, is accurate, reasonably stealthy, the speed boost special upgrade give 4 minutes going at 40+ knots with 1 minute 30 seconds reload in between, the heal makes it great like all high-tier cruisers, and the gun reload upgrade gives it 8.8s reload. The HE are still good and the AP works like a charm.

Only issues I find are the armor and the rudder. It's great at evasion tanking but every stray shell penetrate it and that's 3500-4000 damage per battleship AP, though the heal helps a lot. And the rudder is very, very fragile, especially since I traded the rudder module for the speed boost module. I believe Algérie, Martel and Saint Louis deserves a buff in that regard.

 

Oh, and also Saint Louis is kinda blind... speed boost forces to gives up the fighter plane, and if you want to uses its great AA you need to gives up the hydro for the AA boost. On my end I mounted the hydro.

Martel doesn't have that issue. You have no heal though, but at least you can mount AA boost, speed boost and fighter plane.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[H_FAN]
Players
1,938 posts
22,465 battles
11 hours ago, ShinGetsu said:

I'm at Saint Louis right now, and I'm enjoying it a lot. It's impressively fast, got great range, is accurate, reasonably stealthy, the speed boost special upgrade give 4 minutes going at 40+ knots with 1 minute 30 seconds reload in between, the heal makes it great like all high-tier cruisers, and the gun reload upgrade gives it 8.8s reload. The HE are still good and the AP works like a charm.

Only issues I find are the armor and the rudder. It's great at evasion tanking but every stray shell penetrate it and that's 3500-4000 damage per battleship AP, though the heal helps a lot. And the rudder is very, very fragile, especially since I traded the rudder module for the speed boost module. I believe Algérie, Martel and Saint Louis deserves a buff in that regard.

 

Oh, and also Saint Louis is kinda blind... speed boost forces to gives up the fighter plane, and if you want to uses its great AA you need to gives up the hydro for the AA boost. On my end I mounted the hydro.

Martel doesn't have that issue. You have no heal though, but at least you can mount AA boost, speed boost and fighter plane.

I am up on Henri IV now, and I can also feel the same thing as you did in your previous posts f.e. 8 and Viktor_Slanskis response. I have compared with other T8/9 cruisers (which I played before the Frenchies) in some cases long before where I did not understand high tier play at all, but even if my dam stats in some if not many cruisers are poor they are on the whole better WR wise. I played Edinburgh with radar and I regardless of my WR rate felt that both in the US T8-10 and Edinburgh I had more influence on the game. Success with radar attack regardless if I was killed or not and high damage percentage on DDs made a larger correlation between my personal success and the teams success. I have had some witherers in the Frenchies starting from T6, but even if long range spamming gives high damage numbers, it often gives less impact to the game. Zao is a little of the same but it easier to play at least sometimes closer to enemy. If I want/need huge damagenumbers in fires I try often French but I am better with Zao now that I unlocked her and I found the French ships rather onedimensional. I recieved a negative karma from two players yesterday in my Zao (but it could well have happen in a HenriIV or other French cruiser. They did not think I contributed enough. Well I ended third in the standings with 117 K in that game and have had similar games with my Frenchies but I responded to them you play your ship to your strength which is kiting and I can understand why that is annoying to players in more close-up friendly ships. You do not play distant by personal choice , you do it because of your ship choice. In Hindenburg you can play very different. Few ships I have had so many games with really OK games damagewise that I felt that I did what I could in the French high tier ships but with so little game impact.

 

But they are probably the most consistent line and easy for beginners to reach decent numbers in, I am struggling however with them to carry games. Obviusly if you have exceptional games you will influence, but as such a large part of your damage is on BBs it is difficult. It might be easier in divisions with a BB perhaps, that is a question I have asked myself as you have a BB that can take advantage of your HE spam. As I play solo your impact is decided on how well the cooperation goes with the BBs. 

 

Nevertheless I find Martel and Saint Louis good ships that I enjoy play from time to time, they are ships that I return to, now that I got 14p captains on them but they are not ships that I want to play huge numbers of games in. I have now all T10 cruisers and if I want to HE spam I play Zao, and Henri IV is the least desirable ship. I might change opinion in the future.   I have speedboost on every French cruiser T6 and up as I bought 3 from the COTE and have won a few in SC, so this helps a lot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×