Skip the German DD Line up to...

[xenopathia]

On 7/19/2017 at 8:44 PM, aidenthedestroyer said:

It seems kind of lazy what you are doing. I mean asking others to tell you whether a ship is good or not isnt really good.

In which of my post am I asking whether a ship is good or not?

Besides, forums are places to ask others their opinions and thats literally what I am doing here.

On 7/19/2017 at 8:44 PM, aidenthedestroyer said:

 I have no problem with people trying to skip ships...

Why would one care about what you take yourself as a problem?

 

And last not but least, as a sugestion: Dont post, just to post. Otherwise you appear as a person who has opinions without any knowledge.

 

On 7/19/2017 at 8:53 PM, rvfharrier said:

 

You have limited time? Unless you're terminally ill this isn't really a valid reason,

My personal reasons only bother me. Only I can decide what for me a valid reason is.

 

 

Sorry for this negativity. I think I have an allergy to nonsense.

[aidenthedestroyer]

1 hour ago, xenopathia said:

I think I have an allergy to nonsense

Sorry I triggered that 

[Capra76]

Played to T6 on live and have just played a few games from T7-10 on PT and my advice would be skip to T10 then skip that one too.

 

They are all

[KaLeuWillenbrock]

playing the z-23 on the live server.

 

thanks to the MM, my damage is nonexistent. Dealing damage in while low tier? Yeah right. 

 

the MM is killing this ship. Its hipper all over again.

 

[Strapps]

I can't answer the first question as I've only just reached tier 5 but so far I'm keeping the tier V-25 and V-170. I didn't enjoy the G-101 as much, it feels like the V-25 with worse match-making and although it's got an extra main gun, the placement means you don't really see any benefit from it until you've turned enough to give a nice target to the enemy.

 

The T-22 though ... I try not to make judgements on a ship until I've fully upgraded them but this one is really trying my patience. I have one positive thing to say about it - it forces me to remember that I'm saving my free xp for the Missouri.

 

And yes, it's an older thread and I'm not adding anything to it but I really just wanted to have a moan about the T-22. It's that bad. So probably skip to tier 6 if you're not a fan of low-tier headless chicken gameplay.

[Capra76]

3 hours ago, Strappster said:

And yes, it's an older thread and I'm not adding anything to it but I really just wanted to have a moan about the T-22. It's that bad. So probably skip to tier 6 if you're not a fan of low-tier headless chicken gameplay.

 

Bad news, it gets worse.

 

The killer is the horrible maneuverability of the higher tier ships, they're just too sluggish and too easy to hit.

[Strapps]

12 minutes ago, Capra76 said:

Bad news, it gets worse.

 

The killer is the horrible maneuverability of the higher tier ships, they're just too sluggish and too easy to hit.

 

Say it isn't so! I really enjoyed the earlier ships and thought it was shaping up to be a great gunboat line to complement my IJN DD torp boats. I knew the T-22 had a reputation of sorts, I didn't realise the later ships were more of the same. 

[Capra76]

2 minutes ago, Strappster said:

 

Say it isn't so! I really enjoyed the earlier ships and thought it was shaping up to be a great gunboat line to complement my IJN DD torp boats. I knew the T-22 had a reputation of sorts, I didn't realise the later ships were more of the same. 

 

I'll hold my hands up and admit that my experience beyond T6 is limited to the PT server, and better players than me may have a different opinion.

 

But AFAIK the player numbers on the line are very small so I may not be alone in my opinion.

[HystericalAccuracy]

Sadly, i couldn´t leave my vote because it offers only choices to start between T5 and T9. But i would recommend to start with T2 - four launchers with quick reload - there is always a tube ready 

 

Great fun are T2 and T5 which i kept both. Though I know that many people dont like the "tug boat" T-22 

 

Just finished Maass (T7) and about to buy the T8.

[Capra76]

42 minutes ago, drmajga said:

Sadly, i couldn´t leave my vote because it offers only choices to start between T5 and T9. But i would recommend to start with T2 - four launchers with quick reload - there is always a tube ready 

 

Great fun are T2 and T5 which i kept both. Though I know that many people dont like the "tug boat" T-22 

 

Just finished Maass (T7) and about to buy the T8.

 

How do you make them work?

[Titan_net]

Ernst Gaede

 + Feel the fun when you troll people with your great 150mm guns

 

 - Feel the rage when your wonky guns miss anything at any range

 - Feel the hurt when enemy ships hit you with every shot

 - Feel bored while your great 150mm guns reload or need to turn

 

...

Leberecht Maas

 + Fire a few shots @ 15/min

 + Never look back

[HystericalAccuracy]

11 hours ago, Capra76 said:

How do you make them work?

Depends on the situation

>In a knife-fight with other destroyers turn on hydro instantly. So the danger of eating a torpedo is eliminated. You can daka-daka them down with the okayisch guns if your torps miss. Yes, you eat some damage but the HP pool isn´t too bad on the Germans.

>Same when attacking smoked-up cruisers; hydro, rush, torp them.

>The AA is useful to shoot down spotter planes. Klick them manually and watch them fall.

 

Apart from this situations i play them like torpedo boats; cautiously and hidden and spot a lot. Deactivate AA when sneaking up to someone.

Or i am with the fleet to smoke them up and spot incoming torpedoes. Depends on the situation.

 

 

The T-22 was a torpedo boat - not destroyer - so it´s no surprise that it feels somewhat weak. Honestly, i felt forced to make it work for moral reasons: the Elbing class ships (T22 and her sisters) spent the last months of the war with evacuating civilians in the Baltikum. So those warships saved tens of thousands of lifes instead of taking lifes.

> play it as a torp boat. Use your guns only to set fires and benefit from DoT (or to reset base/cap ofc). Harrass and run away.

 

 

Disclaimer: these suggestions will probably not work for higher tiers since their guns have a higher RoF and can use their guns a lot more.

[MoveZig]

I feel this line shines more in the high tiers in the early morning hours when CVs are scarce. They're a major predator to this line. And Z-52 is a feared cap contester.

 

I feel like there are two modes to the KM DDs from t6 - you're either brawling DDs in caps with your hydro, decent guns and large HP pool, or you're stealth-torping IJN-style. The USSR thing works less well since you're not as fast, most of the guns shoot rather high, you eat a lot of pens and your smoke sucks.

[Strapps]

Finished the T-22 grind and completed the first part of Tea & Biscuits Week II with a nice victory, a fitting end to her service. 

 

 

Overall I didn't particularly like the T-22 when stock but once you get the upgraded hull the story becomes exactly the same. It's sluggish, feeling as though it takes an age to get up to speed and while the 2.9s rudder shift with the B hull is good, it's not really evident because the barge-like handling means you still have to wait for her to answer the rudder.

 

Guns are decent enough against other DDs and CLs, though a 5% fire chance means you have to be hopeful against BBs and CAs or use AP at long range in the hope of getting plunging pens. The AA guns aren't terrible and I took care of a few BB spotters with them during the grind. I used Type 1 camo to give me a 700m stealth torp window, though I'd regularly misjudge how long she takes to make a turn and get spotted anyway. I didn't have CE because tier 5.

 

Final word on the speed ... in the battle before this one I saw that our Hood was taking a pounding so I said in chat that I'd smoke for him. With the speed that's lost in a turn and the low top speed anyway, I couldn't actually catch the Hood to drop that smoke where it might help him. 

 

On 16/08/2017 at 0:36 PM, drmajga said:

The T-22 was a torpedo boat - not destroyer - so it´s no surprise that it feels somewhat weak.

 

Fair play to you for making it work, I must be too used to my IJN DD torp boats to get it working like that. 

[Fred3n]

Z-23, The worst experience in my entire wows playtime, I did however have a great time in Ernst Gaede and MAASS, I highly recommend those two ships.

[MoveZig]

8 hours ago, Fred3n said:

Z-23, The worst experience in my entire wows playtime, I did however have a great time in Ernst Gaede and MAASS, I highly recommend those two ships.

 

Probably just because of the t8 MM that screws you over, Z-23 is not radically different from those two ships. Or maybe the long grind to the 150mm got to you, it's no fun having t6 guns on a ship that faces Gearings.

[affie]

I actually quite like the T-22, just have to get into the  IJN stealth torpedo mindset and use the guns with AP-round when against broadsided targets. 

 

What I do hesitate on is if I shall continue this line or not, what is promising is that the 90 sec reload time on torpedoes are the same all the way to Z-52 and the hydro seems to allow for a new type of game-play. But at what tier does the ships start to feel like evolution, cause the T-22 seems to be the ugly duckling joining the Zerstörers with the torpedo boats on the lower tiers. Would you recommend me to grind out T6 or T7 before I can get proper feeling of how Kriegsmarine Zerstörers are played and then decide if its worth grinding all way up to the Z-52?

[MoveZig]

19 hours ago, affie said:

I actually quite like the T-22, just have to get into the  IJN stealth torpedo mindset and use the guns with AP-round when against broadsided targets. 

 

What I do hesitate on is if I shall continue this line or not, what is promising is that the 90 sec reload time on torpedoes are the same all the way to Z-52 and the hydro seems to allow for a new type of game-play. But at what tier does the ships start to feel like evolution, cause the T-22 seems to be the ugly duckling joining the Zerstörers with the torpedo boats on the lower tiers. Would you recommend me to grind out T6 or T7 before I can get proper feeling of how Kriegsmarine Zerstörers are played and then decide if its worth grinding all way up to the Z-52?

 

EG gives you a very good idea, in fact these DDs hardly change as they go up in tier:

 

t7 gets an additional gun, but doesn't get 150mm

t8 gets 150mm (5 of them, instead of the 4 128mm)

t9 gets the much faster turrets, +1 gun, no 150mm

t10 gets Hindenburg's hydro, no 150mm

 

Apart from some incremental changes like more HP and torp range, and of course the t8 and t9 mod slots, that's really about it for progression. I have heard some things about the shells being different, maybe someone can comment on that.

[romarkov]

23 hours ago, affie said:

I actually quite like the T-22, just have to get into the  IJN stealth torpedo mindset and use the guns with AP-round when against broadsided targets. 

 

What I do hesitate on is if I shall continue this line or not, what is promising is that the 90 sec reload time on torpedoes are the same all the way to Z-52 and the hydro seems to allow for a new type of game-play. But at what tier does the ships start to feel like evolution, cause the T-22 seems to be the ugly duckling joining the Zerstörers with the torpedo boats on the lower tiers. Would you recommend me to grind out T6 or T7 before I can get proper feeling of how Kriegsmarine Zerstörers are played and then decide if its worth grinding all way up to the Z-52?

Hydro indeed gives you entirely new type of gameplay, one which is centered around aggressive cap contesting. But you can only start to feel it properly with Z-46 and 4,7km hydro. When you get Z-52, smoke/hydro combination becomes brutal. The only potential problem is you can get overconfident and die because you have overextended. But you can contest caps against several enemy DDs and still come on top (especially on smaller caps). I think high tier German DDs are currently the most versatile and fun to play DDs in the game.  

[lafeel]

The only ship in the line you should even consider skipping is the T-22. All the ones before, and most after, are great.

[Altsak]

I played my KM DD line after release a bit and dropped the line quite early. After that casually played both T-22 and Gaede over a quite long period. They felt piggish marine mammals with no rudder. But then something made me want to peek my stats on those 2 ships and was blown away. T-22 WR 70% and Gaede WR 60%! Was not expecting that at all. I grinded my few last matches with Gaede and upgraded to Maass. Now after 28 games my Maaasss has a WR of 75% with abysmal damage. But I frigging love the ship!

 

And you say I should be expecting the same or if not better from the rest of the ships? I feel warm and cosy inside just for the wait.

[KaLeuWillenbrock]

the german DD line is not something a beginner should play. maybe not even the first destroyer line in general.

 

these ships simply are more difficult and less forgiving to play.

 

the higher HP-pool looks like its a good buffer but it is heavily needed, because you get hit a lot - especially with AP. 

[EmilyFara]

Yesterday I got the Maass. I just love it. The ship feels much faster, more nimble, slightly better hydro, more guns. And I have a feeling that it is smaller than the Gaede as well.

[EmilyFara]

I did the wallet warrior thing, free-xp'd both the Z-23 and Z-52 (for the super container). And I just love both of these ships. I don't know why people were complaining about them. But the KM DDs from tier 6 onwards are just great. Good torps, good speed, good guns, poor smoke (but at least has it) and hydro.

10/10 would play again.

[Dampfboot]

If you have the money play, TIII and TIV because they are basically Japanese DDs, just slightly worse. Then jump to T IX and enjoy the fun from there. The rest of the line is kind of ok to play, just not fun, so if you don't have spare time, just skip it.