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Any news on HIJMS Tone?

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I am wondering why HIJMS Tone hasn't been introduced as a premium cruiser yet given that the model and stats for it exists and it would be nice to hear from Wargaming if they ever plan to sell that ship?

Also it would be nice to have a tech tree Takao class with the option of the Maya AA build.

:cap_old:

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From what i know tone won't be released till wg figure out how to make it work, concidering the latest fashion of ship "quirks" it may take some time still, though i have been wating for that ship for too long. :cap_fainting:

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3 minutes ago, Major_Damage225 said:

From what i know tone won't be released till wg figure out how to make it work, concidering the latest fashion of ship "quirks" it may take some time still, though i have been wating for that ship for too long. :cap_fainting:

The problem with the Tone-class CAVs and per extention the Ise-class BBVs is that they merge 2 different types of gameplay. (surface ship + CV) And it'd require you to be able to control both the ship and its main guns and the air groups of floatplane fighters/bombers at the same time. The marriage of those two gameplay modes is appearantly very difficult to realize.

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I know what a nightmare that can be, but they could in theory release tone's sister Chikuma thou with a diferent name since we have a chikuma already and they have the model, give her let's say the ability to control 2-3 independent scouts and or mabe between two to four squads of two fighters (something in that manner),  use that as a testbed to see where tone could go and how it would preform, as for the Ise-Class, well just use be it Ise or Hyuga as a regular BB, and later add the other as a BBCV after some data comes in from tone's sister. 

:Smile_Default:

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22 minutes ago, Major_Damage225 said:

I know what a nightmare that can be, but they could in theory release tone's sister Chikuma thou with a diferent name since we have a chikuma already and they have the model, give her let's say the ability to control 2-3 independent scouts and or mabe between two to four squads of two fighters (something in that manner),  use that as a testbed to see where tone could go and how it would preform, as for the Ise-Class, well just use be it Ise or Hyuga as a regular BB, and later add the other as a BBCV after some data comes in from tone's sister. 

:Smile_Default:

That would be gamebreakingly powerful.

Just remember how CVs messed up matches in beta so WG had to mirror MM them.

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Yeah i remember, hmm how about 2x1 scout and 4x1 fighter, with all the AA around you couldn't use that in offence, (since one plane+AA= no plane)  but more in a defencive way, messing the attack of a DB squad etc? 

I'm still thinking of tone as the ultimate support cruiser. 

 I doubt tone would be op in the hands of a regular joe, since it will require alot of multitasking and we all know how good people can be with that (unicums dont count since in theyr hands anything can be 'op')  :Smile_teethhappy:

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The problem is with the ability to send planes wherever you want (e.g. scout), that's an incredibly powerful trait. You have to compensate the enemy team somehow for it. Imagine a situation where there aren't any CVs but one side has a ship that can send planes wherever he wants. DDs immediately are meaningless. Even if there are CVs one side would simply have more squadrons - i.e. they can cover more of the map.

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2 minutes ago, Lord_WC said:

The problem is with the ability to send planes wherever you want (e.g. scout), that's an incredibly powerful trait. You have to compensate the enemy team somehow for it. Imagine a situation where there aren't any CVs but one side has a ship that can send planes wherever he wants. DDs immediately are meaningless. Even if there are CVs one side would simply have more squadrons - i.e. they can cover more of the map.

 

I agree with you on this, lol i never though i'd say this but for the moment a mirror MM would have to be implemented to make it feasable. 

It's a tough one to crack indeed. 

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Also would love to have this ship (and other hybrids) but am happy to wait for WG to come up with something unique than just throw it in as a regular cruiser.

 

I think you don't need to use the CV view though or allow direct control of the squadrons. My idea for implementing this ship was always to just have more plane consumables but each one just press and forget (like current fighter, spotter). Maybe the fighter can have more in a squadron, a new "scout" can have no guns but orbit further from the ship for better view, and a bomber squadron that just goes and does an auto-drop on your currently marked target (e.g. use the selected target for secondary guns). I don't think that would be OP, and if it is she can just be tiered higher so she is weak as a cruiser compared to the "pure" ones at her tier.

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The Tone class only carried 6 planes and had only two catapults from which to launch them from which would make it far slower into getting a full squadron into the air compared to a carrier thus is an argument against a full player controlled squadron.

So instead of having a player controlled squadron perhaps increase the number of fighter floatplanes launched to two and have the second plane have a search radius that is double of, or at least larger than the standard search radius for the standard search plane as a solution.

Then the Tone could equally well serve as a destroyer support ship/cap contester or BB escort looking out for DDs and incoming torps plus an added AA support without being totally inbalanced VS. the carriers' strike aircraft.

 

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As mentioned by other posters, we were able to throw it in game already ages ago - but she would be a rather unimpressive heavy cruiser with no special trait. So we put her back to shipyard and the devs are working on how to make her fun while taking her special trait into account.

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17 minutes ago, Tuccy said:

As mentioned by other posters, we were able to throw it in game already ages ago - but she would be a rather unimpressive heavy cruiser with no special trait. So we put her back to shipyard and the devs are working on how to make her fun while taking her special trait into account.

 

Good to have this confirmed (again, I know this topic came up before). As I said, I agree with this approach and I am willing to wait and hope they come up with something good.

 

Are you passing suggestions on to the devs? There have been plenty of good ideas for implementing the aviation speciality of this ship, in this thread and many others in the past.

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2 hours ago, Tuccy said:

As mentioned by other posters, we were able to throw it in game already ages ago - but she would be a rather unimpressive heavy cruiser with no special trait. So we put her back to shipyard and the devs are working on how to make her fun while taking her special trait into account.

 

I don't understand what's the problem with that. I mean... look at Prinz Eugen. It's pretty much an Admiral Hipper with no difference, no special trait, no nothing, yet people who like the ship still got it. What's the difference with Tone?

 

At least Tone it's different to the other IJN heavy cruisers, there's no cruiser in the line of which Tone would be a copy paste. And even if making the ship a half heavy cruiser, half CV it's not possible, there's lots of people that would buy it regarless. Me for example, that I don't know how to play CVs and for the few times I tried I don't even like it and won't even use Tone as a CV even if she was capable of doing so.

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Tuccy i have a question for you. 

Will the kitakami ever return or has the team decided to premanantly remove her? 

 

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I always thought that the aircraft on the Tones (and the hybrid BB's) were scouts only - so that the CV's could carry more strike craft?

 

On the assumption that that is true, then the Tone a/c could by default have 2 catapult aircraft, with a possibility of 3 if the skill is taken, but with double the orbital radius? That would not be OP, nor would the driver have to worry about managing the aircraft and fighting the ship at the same time.

 

The Tone's a/c are most famous for making a mess of Midway for the IJN, so they certainly should not be 'that' capable.

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13 minutes ago, philjd said:

I always thought that the aircraft on the Tones (and the hybrid BB's) were scouts only - so that the CV's could carry more strike craft?

 

On the assumption that that is true, then the Tone a/c could by default have 2 catapult aircraft, with a possibility of 3 if the skill is taken, but with double the orbital radius? That would not be OP, nor would the driver have to worry about managing the aircraft and fighting the ship at the same time.

 

The Tone's a/c are most famous for making a mess of Midway for the IJN, so they certainly should not be 'that' capable.

Indeed and a doubling of the orbital radius should not be OP as that will also mean that the orbit time will be twice as long meaning that the plane flying the larger radius orbit pattern will check the same area half as frequently as for the normal radius which should still allow for penetration through the float planes search area allthough at a risk.

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The Tone was designed for scouting and I don't think she carried bombers. But the Ise was meant to launch a squadron of D4Y dive-bombers, although these didn't have floats and would need to find somewhere else to land (an actual carrier or a land base). Since we already have some ridiculously unrealistic floatplane fighters, WG could stretch the truth with a bomber squadron if they so chose.

 

Another scout implementation could be to have them fly out on a vector then come back. You could decide the direction but not the distance and there would be no loiter, so you couldn't perma-spot with it but could quickly get a "snapshot" of a flank.

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The later versions of the Tone's aircraft ('43-'45) could carry 2 small bombs apiece (125lb's then 250lb's), so not earth shattering.

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6 minutes ago, philjd said:

The later versions of the Tone's aircraft ('43-'45) could carry 2 small bombs apiece (125lb's then 250lb's), so not earth shattering.

 

No, but could be a fun little fire-starter.

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2 hours ago, Major_Damage225 said:

Tuccy i have a question for you. 

Will the kitakami ever return or has the team decided to premanantly remove her? 

 

 

Maybe :Smile_popcorn:Kitakami was kinda unique ship and we are still thinking about what could be done with her. 

 

2 hours ago, philjd said:

I always thought that the aircraft on the Tones (and the hybrid BB's) were scouts only - so that the CV's could carry more strike craft?

 

On the assumption that that is true, then the Tone a/c could by default have 2 catapult aircraft, with a possibility of 3 if the skill is taken, but with double the orbital radius? That would not be OP, nor would the driver have to worry about managing the aircraft and fighting the ship at the same time.

 

The Tone's a/c are most famous for making a mess of Midway for the IJN, so they certainly should not be 'that' capable.

Don't be hating on Mister Amari, the real mess was done by the No. 1 plane from Chikuma, who flew his track rather fast and most likely off course / above clouds (as its prescribed flight path would take him over both US task forces). If anything, later takeoff of Tone No.4 and either bad navigation or (more likely) cutting the search short to be home on time with the others did lead to Amari's crew finding Yorktown earlier than if they were on time (and with fuel on board to keep track of them for a longer time) ;)

 

1 hour ago, VC381 said:

The Tone was designed for scouting and I don't think she carried bombers. But the Ise was meant to launch a squadron of D4Y dive-bombers, although these didn't have floats and would need to find somewhere else to land (an actual carrier or a land base). Since we already have some ridiculously unrealistic floatplane fighters, WG could stretch the truth with a bomber squadron if they so chose.

 

Another scout implementation could be to have them fly out on a vector then come back. You could decide the direction but not the distance and there would be no loiter, so you couldn't perma-spot with it but could quickly get a "snapshot" of a flank.

The E8A was able to carry 2x30 kg bombs, the E13A could load up to ~250 kg (though the main purpose was for illumination bombs and depth charges).

 

In any case it is entertaining to see all the sugestions here, will be sure to collect the best ones and pass them on :fish_book: Of course cannot guarantee we will use any of them :cap_book:but they are a nice inspiration (though some were already considered for sure).

 

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5 hours ago, Tirande said:

The problem with the Tone-class CAVs and per extention the Ise-class BBVs is that they merge 2 different types of gameplay. (surface ship + CV) And it'd require you to be able to control both the ship and its main guns and the air groups of floatplane fighters/bombers at the same time. The marriage of those two gameplay modes is appearantly very difficult to realize.

 

firstly, combining carrier+gun ship playstyle will never work. secondly, these planes were not a big deal anyway. afaik ise's bombers werent floatplanes so werent even able to return. only solution for these planes is imho make them consumable like ctrl + click autonavigated but still you will have to do the job mainly with your guns. tone will be completelly ok for that. ise not so much i am afraid

 

4 hours ago, atomskytten said:

So instead of having a player controlled squadron perhaps increase the number of fighter floatplanes launched to two and have the second plane have a search radius that is double of, or at least larger than the standard search radius for the standard search plane as a solution.

Then the Tone could equally well serve as a destroyer support ship/cap contester or BB escort looking out for DDs and incoming torps plus an added AA support without being totally inbalanced VS. the carriers' strike aircraft.

 

yeah. thats also good idea. aa support ship is ideal role for both tone and ise

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I always thought that the basis of balancing of aviation battleships / cruisers could be the fact that they carry seaplanes. While IRL there were some impressive designs, but in wows in general they can be simply and flat-out, no-questions weaker than carrier-born aviation, such them being easy(/ier) prey for both AA and fighters.

A gimmick could be that instead of the spotter/fighter choice, one could decide between fighter or "bomber". Fighters could consist of one squadron of seaplanes escorting the ship, posing far more headache to a carrier than a single seaplane, but still not a horrible threat, and most importantly: their flight would still not be free to order wherever. (Thereby somewhat eliminating the free scouting factor, which would arguably have the biggest influence on the game in skilled hands.)

In case the player equips bombs on them, by pressing the "consumable" button, they would take off (more time would need to use the catapults than a deck) and attack the currently selected target, then (if they are still alive) come back. The flight path is still not free. This way one could ditch the top-down CV view altogether.

The planes could come back and rearm, but in reality, considering their vulnerability, this would work more than a limited-use consumabe. (bombs would give, say, 2-4 more fires than you would get without seaplanes per match) This way there would still be more planes in the air, but under less direct control (so no prolonged abuse of DDs with direct scouting), as for "fighters", difference would only occur to a single seaplane fighter when the air wing actually engages combat. For players not to choose automatically the "strike" setup, Tone possibly and at least should not get the AA consumable.

 

...but I would still like a true lameCV / CA hybrid far more. :fish_aqua:

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36 minutes ago, Tuccy said:

 

Maybe :Smile_popcorn:Kitakami was kinda unique ship and we are still thinking about what could be done with her. 

 

(...)

A reward for a mission that requires 500 torp kills and gets re-set every time you deal team damage with a torp :cap_look:

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1 hour ago, Tuccy said:

Maybe :Smile_popcorn:Kitakami was kinda unique ship and we are still thinking about what could be done with her. 

 

Decrease its citadel armor so that every cruiser and BB would cause overpenetrations :Smile_trollface: 

Also, add torpedo reload booster.

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Personally what I always envisioned for Tone was that she could get a consumable, that when activated will launch a squad of planes against the targeted enemy ship (or closest if no enemy has been selected or something along these lines). These planes could be armed with low damage HE dive bombs (250lbs or something in the same category that Kaga's DBs currently has). Now these bombs would mostly be used to finish very low HP enemies hiding behind islands or setting fire to ships. Whats important to note is that Tone had only 6 planes afaik, so the player has to be really conservative with what target they chose to attack, one wrong move and you could lose most of the DBs leaving you with:

6 hours ago, Tuccy said:

 a rather unimpressive heavy cruiser with no special trait.

The other thing to note is that with low damage dive bombs you wouldn't want to just attack whenever the consumable is off cooldown, instead a smart player would wait untill an enemy is isolated and has used damage control party to set fire to them again. Compared to a normal HE spaming cruiser, you could very easily attempt to set fire to an enemy ship behind an island that your guns normally wouldnt reach. 

 

 

Personally I would love for this to be Tone whenver she comes out. Bad play with the bombers would either result in running out of plane reserves or just the enemy shrugging off the hit and repairing the fire. Yet smart play would let you set fires to enemies that normally would be difficult to reach. This also means that no need to be afraid of permaspotting with this ship and no unfair advantage for the CV on either team.

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