Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
You need to play a total of 50 battles to post in this section.
Pegasus2022

BB's sniping RN light cruisers

47 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

[SH33P]
Beta Tester
75 posts
3,165 battles

I'll start by saying I main RN cruisers.

 

They're not bad in an anti DD role however they are so, so fragile I think DD's have an easier time under fire.

 

Every time you're spotted, even for a moment, BB shells fly at you from range up to 18km. You have to be spotted some part of the game, controlling that spotting is skill but it's not the easy when you want to fire at an enemy, you have to be spotted, especially if you want to counter a DD and chase them down. Mosto f what i'm about to type is my experiances in the leander.

 

What happens far far to often is catching a DD out on their own and then recieving 2 or 3 hits, not primary target, not broadside and somewhat behind islands for 25k damage from a BB 17km away, leaving you limping around on 3k.  Even weaving, it doesn't take long for a lucky single hit from a BB to get and cripple you. You start thinking, what's the point in engaging a DD if a BB is able to nuke you from literally the other side of the map? It's almost a given you'll be hit once or twice and you're then essentially out of the game.

 

I've been hit through the stern sailing directly away zig-zagging, from something like 15km by a single shell for 22k, leaving me on 6khp or another example, a shell skims the stern at a 10 degree angle, just overmatchs and does 26k damage. Nearly every game you get the critical damage sound effect. This occurs less at tier 7 and up, that's not so bad but at 4-6 it's becoming some kind of joke. They are literally so fragile the punishment for almost just fireing your guns can be a trip back to port.

 

Try to support a BB with smoke that's getting a beating, can't do it, single half-salvo to your bow from outside your own gun range and you're dead from full HP to nothing without a detonation. There is weak and then there is fragile, then there is just silly.

 

Today, I decided to play a tier 4 BB, I fired a single turret (2 shells) at a Danae at 13/14km or so, 16,600 damage, full HP to nearly zero. Didn't need to fire the other 5 turrets, one enough.
I understand you want cruisers to have to be careful around BB's but I think BB dispersion needs some work. The current situation does not help the BB heavy meta when they can just evaporate CA's by looking at them no matter what aspect they present.

 

The only major mistake is playing this line, you don't have to be caught broadside, you can get deleted from any angle at any range, even bow or stern first, whilst missing most shells.

 

Sometimes I do just fine, even well. Other times i'm dead in 5 hits. Quite annoying the extremes of play.

 

 

Here are some options:

1: Have an exponential dispersion for BB's after a fixed range. So dispersion is say, linear up to 14km, when it then increases quickly beyond that. << I think this is the most important. In short a BB accuracy nerf for longer ranges.

 

2: Rescale BB's, CA's and CL's. I'm not convinced ship scaling is accurate. My CA is almost as long as a Bismark and sits very high out of the water by comparison. This is a negative of cruisers, they have a similar silouette and present a target of near equal size but have little armor? Unarmored ships rely on their target aspect being smaller and more difficult to hit, the game doesn't reflect that.

 

Either of the above two would make BB's much less effective against cruisers at range and enable them to duke other cruisers without as much fear. It might make back line campy BB's a bit less of an effective tactic and make them close in a bit.

 

3. Increase base shell dispersion of BB's against CL cruisers by X, similar to how camoflage increases dispersion.

 

5. Rework RN cruisers so they take less damage, doesn't have to be much. As it is I understand it they take more damage over other nations.

 

6. Hurry up with a CA line.

7. Some combination of the above.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[-LD-]
[-LD-]
Players
11 posts
15,592 battles

sorry but if you get at 17km then you are not weaving around and zig zagging.

when i drive battleships i usually dont bother shooting cruisers 15km or more away.....except they drive straight all the time or stand still.

 

when i drive cruisers i rarely get hit over 14km away from battleships, except i drive predictable. and a full 180° rockford turn i put on the predictable table.

 

 

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[HABIT]
Beta Tester
1,568 posts

First of all, no BB does 22k damage, let alone 26k damage, with a single shell. You must have been hit multiple times.

Secondly, you tried a tier IV BB and you managed to do 16k damage with two shells? so what? Is that supposed to be evidence for BBs being op? Come back with some hundred games in BBs over different tiers and tell us how accurate and devasting they are on a regular basis.

And for those who just read what they want to read: This point is not about the possibility of hard hits by BBs themselves but about "I rolled two dice, got snake eyes, hence the dice must be biased" kind of "reasoning".

 

BBs are meant to counter CAs, therefore they should be able to hit hard against them. As it is now the problem rather is the number of BBs per match compared to CAs (and sometimes DDs, depending on the tier) than their supposed damage potential. As I said: Do some more games in BBs (also at higher tiers) if you think they are so good reliable and I assure you that it takes more than staying 20 km away and pressing the left mouse button to do good in them and to achieve somewhat consistent results.

 

Regarding your options:

1) As far as I know this is in some way already implemented but other might be able to tell you more about it. But do you really want this? An increase of the dispersion leads to a higher possibility for BBs to hit evading targets with stray shells.

 

2) The scale of the ships themselves should be ok. But the scale of the ships compared to the distances on the maps don't fit. However, fxing this doesn't really solve your problem. Lightly amoured ships don't necessarily rely on a signifantly smaller silhouette but also on enhanced maneuvrebility. If you think that the scales of two ships don't fit, go look them up. Or post the ships here.

 

3) Why? See point 1)

 

5) What do you propose? RN CAs are kind of the glass canons of the game. They can bring very good damage over time but also take much damage. Well, at least in the case that RNGs doesn't show you the middle finger makes every shell magically overpen.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[UNICS]
Beta Tester
4,481 posts
7,984 battles

I'm not just going to dismiss your argument, but I would recommend that you try other ship classes as well, especially ones you complain about.

Only playing one line of ships and then using that as basis for arguing game balance is not a good place to start.

 

As for your specific "options":

1. That not only doesn't make sense but it also is very un-intuitive. Ship inaccuracy at range is a combination of linear shell spread and shell flight time. Both should be enough to keep maneuverable ships reasonably safe at long ranges. Also there is already two different linear spread values for close and medium-long range.

2. Ship scale relative to other ships is for the most part fine. It would be pretty hard to mess up overall scale when making the ship models based on schematics and available measurements.

3. Another one of those un-intuitive mechanics. Not needed anyway.

5. A mechanic for this is already in the game, it's called overpenetration. Which essentially means that badly armored ships take less damage from heavy armor piercing shells.

6. There are several CA lines in the game already. Pick one. The RN didn't really do CA with a couple of exceptions.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
671 posts

Wait until the RN BBs get released with Radar in T9/10 it's going to be so ridiculously broken the Minotaur will be effectively useless. 

 

RN CLs are fine at the moment, enjoy it while it lasts though, having faced the Conqueror's broken crutch mechanics in a Minotaur good luck using the ship if the Lion and Conqueror are released with radar, because RN CLs will be a complete joke. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[CATS]
Players
14,730 posts
10,882 battles

My Leander is fine.

I get punished, when I do mistakes.

Lucky shots over half the map rarely happen to me.

But I agree that RN cruisers up to Tier V are very fragile. I regularly manage HE citadels even with light cruisers against them.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
1,011 posts
10,311 battles

Learn to play comes to mind here. Or maybe get good. I play RN cruisers too and I suffer from the same problems YET I am able to great in them....hmmm

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
349 posts
2,315 battles

You're getting to the tiers where battleships have cruiser like accuracy. These are also the tiers where you must take island hugging to the extreme and not push into contested caps to take out a DD. Find an island nearby and rain shells from both smoke and island cover, when your smoke is running out reverse back behind the island. Pray you don't have 4+ radar ships on the enemy team and these tactics should bring you success. Someone else might be able to help with division tactics as I only play solo for the most part.

 

I'm also quite worried on what the addition of radar BBs will do to the Minotaur, I played a game vs 5 radar ships the other day and was radar spotted for a ridiculous amount of time. Luckily the island protected me up until a point but it made it so I could not attack safely, which for that ship means death.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[ITA_C]
Players
231 posts
6,718 battles

You should change your point of wiew while playing cruiser , a good game for you should be do better than enemy cruisers ,to counter bb's at this time is not an option for cruisers,to kill dd's ...... the dd must do something wrong ,if not it's risky ,anyway to be insta-deleted by bb's is something every that cruiser have to face at least rn ones have smoke and the passive meta of the game will punish you for every initiative ,this game right now is just about to profit from enemy mistakes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[QUCA]
Weekend Tester
936 posts
4,201 battles
2 hours ago, waxx25 said:

Learn to play comes to mind here. Or maybe get good. I play RN cruisers too and I suffer from the same problems YET I am able to great in them....hmmm

He has nearly the same solo winrate as you though...

So you rather should change that to 'learn to group up with 2 others to back you up'. Which the RN cruisers pretty much need as they are too fragile to solo carry.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Tester
1,342 posts
5,212 battles
8 hours ago, Pegasus2022 said:

.2: Rescale BB's, CA's and CL's. I'm not convinced ship scaling is accurate. My CA is almost as long as a Bismark and sits very high out of the water by comparison. This is a negative of cruisers, they have a similar silouette and present a target of near equal size but have little armor? Unarmored ships rely on their target aspect being smaller and more difficult to hit, the game doesn't reflect that.

 

Ship scaling in general is around 2 times larger if I'm not completely mistaken, atleast when you compare it to the terrain or small villages on islands and the like. But the ship scaling when you do side by side comparision is more accurate than one might think. For example your Edinburgh is 187 m long, and the Bismarck is 251 m long. And it does sit high in the water, just as the real ship did.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
1,542 posts
6,483 battles

No other line (MAYBE CVs when available) gets focused more than a RN cruiser when they become visible.  The worst is when I'm in the Mino as everyone swings the turrets around to have a pop at you, even if their having a knife fight to the death with each other!

 

Its a easy kill which can be achieved in a very short time.  A BB can and will cripple you with 1 broadside salvo if not downright kill you off, period.

 

Its a unforgiving but deadly line IMHO. Do I have a problem with this.....Nope.  I except its the most fragile CA/CL line when i play them and BB's shooting at a distance, some of them anyway, don't hit you that much.  Plus they have a pretty good concealment considering.  

 

I tend to get fully deleted when i'm spotted close up and out of cover/smoke (and hope) so its my fault.  BBs really cant miss at 6-10 km away.  

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[BAZI]
Beta Tester
2,672 posts
8,724 battles
4 hours ago, Darth_Glorious said:

Low tier RN Cls are fragile but when you get to Fiji, I cannot  count how many time I got Dreadnought medal with it anymore.

 

And when you got to Neptune/Mino you will learn what fragile truly means.

 

Leander, Fiji, Belfast and Edinburgh are like impenetrable fortresses, nuke-safe bunkers compared to those two ships. 50% of the shells that hit you hit you in the balls. BBs taking potshots at your wiggling Neptune from whatever distance are doing it right actually. Two stray hits will usually lead to at least 1 citadel. I got double-citadelled by a fcking Gneisenaus frontal turrets through the butt at 15km and devastated from fullhp by a puny Tirpitz (no spotterplane) shooting my smoke. Its retarded.

 

Sure, a decent player can adapt, but the potential for frustration is insanely high with these ships. I can totally relate to OP.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[QUCA]
Weekend Tester
936 posts
4,201 battles
8 minutes ago, allufewig said:

 shooting my smoke

I'm pretty sure having smoke on CLs is counterproductive, it gives you a false sense of security while you are sitting in a small puff of fog (so very little area to move around) in a fairly large ship which is basically a floating citadel.

It seems better to just stick to hard cover like USN CAs do and radar.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[HAERT]
[HAERT]
Beta Tester
229 posts
6,451 battles
1 hour ago, GhostRider_24 said:

Radar wouldn't be as big an issue if it didn't go though islands to be honest.

This!

But to implement that ingame, it would also have to take heigth of the Island into account - lazy WG :(

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Tester
2,345 posts
36 minutes ago, allufewig said:

 

And when you got to Neptune/Mino you will learn what fragile truly means.

 

Leander, Fiji, Belfast and Edinburgh are like impenetrable fortresses, nuke-safe bunkers compared to those two ships. 50% of the shells that hit you hit you in the balls. BBs taking potshots at your wiggling Neptune from whatever distance are doing it right actually. Two stray hits will usually lead to at least 1 citadel. I got double-citadelled by a fcking Gneisenaus frontal turrets through the butt at 15km and devastated from fullhp by a puny Tirpitz (no spotterplane) shooting my smoke. Its retarded.

 

Sure, a decent player can adapt, but the potential for frustration is insanely high with these ships. I can totally relate to OP.

 

I got to Minotaur and I normally hide behind some island and spam shells like no tomorrow lol

If there is no island, i go bow on or stern on, angled my ship as best to minimize my side as i can then spam shells

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[BAZI]
Beta Tester
2,672 posts
8,724 battles
5 minutes ago, Lord_WC said:

I'm pretty sure having smoke on CLs is counterproductive, it gives you a false sense of security while you are sitting in a small puff of fog (so very little area to move around) in a fairly large ship which is basically a floating citadel.

It seems better to just stick to hard cover like USN CAs do and radar.

 

Unsure. Relying on hard cover limits your positioning choices drastically, especially the more offensive ones. Its tricky to do on its own as well. Playing a british Atlanta thats even more squishy does not sound appealing tbh.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[QUCA]
Weekend Tester
936 posts
4,201 battles
3 minutes ago, allufewig said:

Unsure. Relying on hard cover limits your positioning choices drastically, especially the more offensive ones. Its tricky to do on its own as well. Playing a british Atlanta thats even more squishy does not sound appealing tbh.

On the other hand you go in smoke, shoot once then get 50k damage in return fire immediately. I crap you not yesterday I spent my time in NO just to annoy the enemy minotaur by stalking him and giving him 2-3 citadels every time he smoked up and shot. That ship is too big and squishy for smoke.

 

When I get there I probably will double down on the anti-DD role with radar instead.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Tester
2,345 posts

i rarely got citadelled in smoke because I always angled my Minotaur. i rather use 60% of my guns then get 3 citadels in return.. You can also confuse your enemies by switching betwwen full salvo and sequential fire.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
1,346 posts
3,583 battles
2 hours ago, Darth_Glorious said:

i rarely got citadelled in smoke because I always angled my Minotaur. i rather use 60% of my guns then get 3 citadels in return.. You can also confuse your enemies by switching betwwen full salvo and sequential fire.

*Taking notes*

"Angle in Mino"

"60% guns > getting citadelled"

- I'm about 20k XP from unlocking Nepnep.

 

In my experience, T1-3 are fine; Danae, Emerald and Leander are awful; Fiji and Edinburgh are amazing. Fiji moreso because of her ridiculous maneuverability, but Edinburgh does have that silly Warspite heal.

 

The smokescreen radius skill and Adrenaline Rush are both extremely useful as second-pass skills for the ships.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
1,458 posts
2,640 battles
13 hours ago, BillydSquid said:

Wait until the RN BBs get released with Radar in T9/10 it's going to be so ridiculously broken the Minotaur will be effectively useless. 

 

RN CLs are fine at the moment, enjoy it while it lasts though, having faced the Conqueror's broken crutch mechanics in a Minotaur good luck using the ship if the Lion and Conqueror are released with radar, because RN CLs will be a complete joke. 

 

Buy the Zao for providing BB with some burning cruiser revenge.

 

It is not that effective, but it is annoying as all hell.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
1,806 posts
5,762 battles

As I see it, from WGs point of view, a cruiser with access to smoke screen needed to be balanced with being "extra thin paper". And you know what BBs hate the most? Being spammed from inside a smoke. You know what BBs love? Shooting at cruisers. Every time you play a RN CL you accomplish both. I honestly can't say I'm surprised they focus them even more than a regular cruiser.

 

Also, in good hands a RN cruiser it's a great help to the enemy team, you also don't want that, so even more focus.

 

And then there's Minotaur and Belfast, they are in a league of their own about getting focused.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
482 posts
7,639 battles

RN are right now a great CA line. Hi risk Hi reward. climbing tier you have more fire power  but since T9 things get really squishy. I deleted RN T9 in one salvo with Roon. But I do also have the RN T9 and in right shenario she is a beast. so no coplain balance wise, at all. May to strong balance wise in good hands but again Hi risk Hi reward so ok if little stronger.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×